Stop and think

[Galway Eagle]

I'm saying that sustaining success and the building of the Al (which demonstrated commitment to the program) were keys to the Big East. The market helped. I certainly don't think it was a given just because of the six years before Crean arrived.

I agree with Frenns that the decision to invest was huge, but I feel that Crean's salesmanship made that investing an easier sell.

More than anything, I do fully believe the hiring of Crean was heavily instrumental. It wasn't just the success, it wasn't just his ability to generate fan excitement, and it wasn't just his ability to help convince donors they were investing in a bigger future, but it was all of those things that helped us get there.

It may not make everyone happy, but I do feel the Crean hire was the most significant hire Marquette made for the men's program since Al McGuire. No disrespect to O'Neill or Buzz, but Crean was the perfect guy at the perfect time.

Crean was able to capitalize on coming off of a decent record in the 90s, I'm not entirely sure Crean could've built a program that was in complete shambles the way O'neil did. I think you could argue O'neil was perfect at the perfect time, Crean was perfect at the perfect time, and Buzz was perfect at the perfect time (we were in danger of being a team that only makes the tournament and never goes anywhere)

[BallBoy]

I agree with pretty much everything you say except the last sentence.  Conference membership isn't like promotion and relegation.  I don't think our BE conference membership is due to our Final Four run.  It's due to the standing of our basketball program. 

At worst we would be in the A10.  But I think we would be in the BE regardless.

I wasn't 100% serious that we would be in the Horizon but I don't think we enter the Big East when we did.  We might be there now but we would have followed the Butler and Xavier route.  There are many basketball programs who have had a history of success but are no longer relevant.  USF won multiple NCs and is no longer relevant.  MU needed a shot of success to continue the momentum which I don't think we would have gotten under Deane. 

A sweet sixteen from KO was great but it isn't a program builder and in most cases, like it did with him, the coach tries to parlay it into a better gig. 

[Henry Sugar]

Random pondering led me to the notion that MU has the chance to string 3 pretty objectively successful coaching tenures in a row.  In spite of dramatic circumstances surrounding the departures and arrival of Wojo [and there are many......!]this situation is potentially remarkable and questionably without contemporaries.  I feel good about Wojos role in the matter.  MU all day!!!!!!

I don't believe it's an accident.

Marquette basketball will be good because the administration is committed and invests in the success of hoops.

[tower912]

I don't believe it's an accident.

Marquette basketball will be good because the administration is committed and invests in the success of hoops.

And when the administration isn't committed to the success of hoops, they don't last long. 

[source?]

A long-term commitment that was largely fueled by the excitement Crean brought to the program and culminated in the Al McGuire Center that was being built at the time.

EDIT: I agree that had we lost to Missouri in 2003 we would have still received the invite. I think there's a good chance if the decision was made in 2002 we would have received the invite. If the decision had been made in 2001, in the midst of a 4th straight losing season and with no Al McGuire Center in sight, I don't think we'd have received the invite.

There was only one losing season in that period, not 4. We have had only one losing season since 1991.

In regards to your earlier point about Charlotte, the rumor was that Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, PC, and SJ were throwing a fit over expansion not including more private/catholic/basketball schools. I think that would have really limited their options.

[keefe]

Deane was fired for essentially telling Cords that he should be happy with an NCAA appearance once every few years.....

I am glad that his blatant womanizing was not a factor. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I am glad that his blatant womanizing was not a factor.

Was that unique to Deane?  Clearly there are examples/stories that span the spectrum with him - usually the uniting factor was his favorite pastime.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Personally, I like to stop and think where we would be if Marquette (and the rest of the C7) didn't break away from the Big East after Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Notre Dame, West Virginia and Rutgers left.  Not only did we get to continue playing Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul, but we managed to partner up with Xavier, Creighton and Butler, all wonderful basketball programs and institutions, keep the Big East name, Madison Square Garden as the tournament site.  The Big East also managed to get significantly more money than the football-playing continuation of the Big East (the American Conference).  Most importantly, we did not get stuck in a conference with Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, Houston, and SMU.  If we got stuck in a conference with those schools,  we would have lost all the momentum that Crean and Buzz created/maintained during their tenures and our basketball program would have been irreparably damaged.

It is unfortunate that we don't play Cincinnati or UConn anymore, but, thankfully, we aren't chasing the proverbial (football) goose as they are.

[brewcity77]

There was only one losing season in that period, not 4. We have had only one losing season since 1991.

In regards to your earlier point about Charlotte, the rumor was that Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, PC, and SJ were throwing a fit over expansion not including more private/catholic/basketball schools. I think that would have really limited their options.

The losing seasons were based on the previous supposition that Deane stayed with the same results as he had after leaving.

[frozena pizza]

I was there in the Deane years and personally liked the guy and was a bit disappointed when he was fired.  But it was clearly the right move and Crean without question changed the direction of the program and created a foundation for success that Buzz continued seamlessly, including being able to hire a coach like Wojo.  I guess it was nice when I was a student to be able to grab free tickets from someone an hour before the game but every time I watched a game from 2006-2012 it made me wish I'd gone there a few years later.  Hopefully Wojo will continue that.

[keefe]

the decision to invest in BB by Wild and others. 

This is exactly right. One rarely sees here on Scoop Fr Wild getting any credit for the return to prominence of Marquette basketball but that one man, more than any other, has had more to do with Marquette's increased visibility as a brand.

I always chuckle when I read people giving the Bronze Beast so much credit for our ascendancy and entry into the Big East; that is laughable.

Fr. Wild reinvigorated the university and made Marquette University an attractive addition to the Big East Conference.   

 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is exactly right. One rarely sees here on Scoop Fr Wild getting any credit for the return to prominence of Marquette basketball but that one man, more than any other, has had more to do with Marquette's increased visibility as a brand.

I always chuckle when I read people giving the Bronze Beast so much credit for our ascendancy and entry into the Big East; that is laughable.

Fr. Wild reinvigorated the university and made Marquette University an attractive addition to the Big East Conference.

This is true. Father Wild, Bill Cords, the BoT, and the rest of the administration deserve the brunt of the praise for putting Marquette in a position to become a BEast member. However, Tom Crean deserves some of the credit. You are amazed by the people who give him too much credit. I am amazed by those who try to give him zero credit. The ones who seem to think that we made it into the Big East and made the Final Four in spite of Tom Crean. The fact is, if Crean had come in and put up losing seasons from 99-03, we wouldn't have made the Big East. Would another coach have gotten us into the Big East? Probably. Would another coach have gotten us to the Final Four? Unlikely but possible. But a hypothetical other coach didn't do those things. Tom Crean did. Without the work he put in, we wouldn't be where we are today. And that deserves at least a little bit of respect.

[brewcity77]

This is true. Father Wild, Bill Cords, the BoT, and the rest of the administration deserve the brunt of the praise for putting Marquette in a position to become a BEast member. However, Tom Crean deserves some of the credit. You are amazed by the people who give him too much credit. I am amazed by those who try to give him zero credit. The ones who seem to think that we made it into the Big East and made the Final Four in spite of Tom Crean. The fact is, if Crean had come in and put up losing seasons from 99-03, we wouldn't have made the Big East. Would another coach have gotten us into the Big East? Probably. Would another coach have gotten us to the Final Four? Unlikely but possible. But a hypothetical other coach didn't do those things. Tom Crean did. Without the work he put in, we wouldn't be where we are today. And that deserves at least a little bit of respect.

Well said, TAMU. Crean and Buzz both left, and so many try to belittle everything they did, never mind that they did a ton of good for Marquette while they were here. Just because they chose to go elsewhere doesn't mean they weren't an important part of helping Marquette grow and earning the basketball program the reputation it has today.

The irony is now we hear so much praise for Wojo and "doing it the right way" and how exciting things are...if in 5-6 years he leaves for another job, the same people that criticize and diminish TC and Buzz will be doing the exact same thing to Wojo. No coach is perfect, and ultimately, all coaches (even Al) leave. Better to accept them for what they are and acknowledge what they do than canonize them while they're here and demonize them when they leave.

[tower912]

I do appreciate the work and the accomplishments of Coach Crean at MU.   190 wins in nine years.  One final 4.   One conference championship.   5 tournament appearances.   Helped shepherd the program into the Big East. 

[Nukem2]

Well said, TAMU. Crean and Buzz both left, and so many try to belittle everything they did, never mind that they did a ton of good for Marquette while they were here. Just because they chose to go elsewhere doesn't mean they weren't an important part of helping Marquette grow and earning the basketball program the reputation it has today.

The irony is now we hear so much praise for Wojo and "doing it the right way" and how exciting things are...if in 5-6 years he leaves for another job, the same people that criticize and diminish TC and Buzz will be doing the exact same thing to Wojo. No coach is perfect, and ultimately, all coaches (even Al) leave. Better to accept them for what they are and acknowledge what they do than canonize them while they're here and demonize them when they leave.

Yup.  Sometimes it's hard to leave gracefully.  In the end, both TC and BW did a lot of good for MU.

[wadesworld]

Well said, TAMU. Crean and Buzz both left, and so many try to belittle everything they did, never mind that they did a ton of good for Marquette while they were here. Just because they chose to go elsewhere doesn't mean they weren't an important part of helping Marquette grow and earning the basketball program the reputation it has today.

The irony is now we hear so much praise for Wojo and "doing it the right way" and how exciting things are...if in 5-6 years he leaves for another job, the same people that criticize and diminish TC and Buzz will be doing the exact same thing to Wojo. No coach is perfect, and ultimately, all coaches (even Al) leave. Better to accept them for what they are and acknowledge what they do than canonize them while they're here and demonize them when they leave.

Nothing about them leaving or diminishing what they did here.  All about who they were as people.  Unless Wojo is just wearing a mask for the first few years like Bert did and he's ignoring everyone outside of the basketball program at the University by the end of his tenure and forcing people to bend over backwards for him, I will be very thankful for his time here and wish him nothing but the best.  I think we will all be very pleased with Wojo from the start to the end.

[Loose Cannon]

Well said, TAMU. Crean and Buzz both left, and so many try to belittle everything they did, never mind that they did a ton of good for Marquette while they were here. Just because they chose to go elsewhere doesn't mean they weren't an important part of helping Marquette grow and earning the basketball program the reputation it has today.

The irony is now we hear so much praise for Wojo and "doing it the right way" and how exciting things are...if in 5-6 years he leaves for another job, the same people that criticize and diminish TC and Buzz will be doing the exact same thing to Wojo. No coach is perfect, and ultimately, all coaches (even Al) leave. Better to accept them for what they are and acknowledge what they do than canonize them while they're here and demonize them when they leave.

     I hear Thee!!...Shades of Brett Favre

[keefe]

Well said, TAMU. Crean and Buzz both left, and so many try to belittle everything they did, never mind that they did a ton of good for Marquette while they were here. Just because they chose to go elsewhere doesn't mean they weren't an important part of helping Marquette grow and earning the basketball program the reputation it has today.

The irony is now we hear so much praise for Wojo and "doing it the right way" and how exciting things are...if in 5-6 years he leaves for another job, the same people that criticize and diminish TC and Buzz will be doing the exact same thing to Wojo. No coach is perfect, and ultimately, all coaches (even Al) leave. Better to accept them for what they are and acknowledge what they do than canonize them while they're here and demonize them when they leave.

I don't think I have ever minimized Crean's contributions to the University basketball team. On the contrary, I have always maintained he was the right man at the right time for Marquette hoops.

My objections to Crean have to do with his bizarre world view that puts himself, and only himself, at the center of the universe. The manner in which he treated people at Marquette was disgusting.

My wife had several first hand experiences dealing with Crean and she was appalled by his obtuse self-centered callousness. In a life spent dealing with characters in a wide range of cultures and lands she could have listed maybe five people she was genuinely disgusted by and Tommy Crean was definitely one of them (hell, she even said Bill "Leisure Suit Larry" Gates Jr. was a better human being than Crean and that is saying something.)

Crean did a lot for Marquette's basketball team but he didn't necessarily advance the interests or reputation of the University. Can anyone look at what is going on at IU and conclude that Crean's stewardship of a very visible IU program is doing anything positive for that university's reputation? I am not just speaking of the players behavior either. Crean's utterly insane attack on Jeff Meyers in Ann Arbor was an embarrassment to IU - and there are many more similar examples.

Crean was good for our basketball program but he was less than positive for the University. And frankly, Crean overstayed his welcome by several years. I was glad he came but thrilled that he left.

[WarriorFan]

No coach is perfect, and ultimately, all coaches (even Al) leave. Better to accept them for what they are and acknowledge what they do than canonize them while they're here and demonize them when they leave.

I think the problem here is that we want another one to leave the way Al did.  I surely do.

[Eldon]

This is exactly right. One rarely sees here on Scoop Fr Wild getting any credit for the return to prominence of Marquette basketball but that one man, more than any other, has had more to do with Marquette's increased visibility as a brand.

I always chuckle when I read people giving the Bronze Beast so much credit for our ascendancy and entry into the Big East; that is laughable.

Fr. Wild reinvigorated the university and made Marquette University an attractive addition to the Big East Conference.

My Fr Wild bobblehead agrees with this assessment.

[GGGG]

I think the problem here is that we want another one to leave the way Al did.  I surely do.

Right, but that rarely ever happens.  Either they suck and are fired, or are good and get another job.  Wojo is probably coaching another 30 years.  Anyone who thinks that he will be at Marquette for that long is kidding themselves.

[Galway Eagle]

Right, but that rarely ever happens.  Either they suck and are fired, or are good and get another job.  Wojo is probably coaching another 30 years.  Anyone who thinks that he will be at Marquette for that long is kidding themselves.

You're probably right, but if there was a coach that is more likely to stay on here I'd think it would be him. Of course much of that I feel would be him winning at a level that us and him are content with and feel is sustainable.  He's very loyal to Duke but it's because his mentor was a lifer, he went to a basketball first, medium size, religious school that I feel there's at least a greater chance that he'd stay. 

[Loose Cannon]

Right, but that rarely ever happens.  Either they suck and are fired, or are good and get another job.  Wojo is probably coaching another 30 years.  Anyone who thinks that he will be at Marquette for that long is kidding themselves.

 Well, I think you're on very solid ground, at first blush I can only think of 3 at the Division One level.  Coach K, Boeheim, and maybe Rick Byrd at Belmont.

[GGGG]

You're probably right, but if there was a coach that is more likely to stay on here I'd think it would be him.

You could find Scooper quotes from four or five years ago saying the same thing about Buzz.

[GGGG]

Well, I think you're on very solid ground, at first blush I can only think of 3 at the Division One level.  Coach K, Boeheim, and maybe Rick Byrd at Belmont.

Tom Izzo.  Mark Few.