Rank the BEast by Position

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

People were starting to do this in another thread, but I thought it was an interesting enough discussion to have its own.

For me it looks like this:

Point Guards:
1. Kris Dunn, Providence
2. D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, Georgetown
3. Billy Garret Jr., Depaul
4. Jalen Brunson, Villanova
5. Mo Watson Jr., Creighton
6. Myles Davis, Xavier
7. Tyler Lewis, Butler
8. Khadeen Carrington, Seton Hall
9. Traci Carter, Marquette
10. Fredrico Mussini, St. John's

Shooting Guards:
1. Ryan Arcidiacano, Villanova
2. Kellen Dunham, Butler
3. Duane Wilson, Marquette
4. L.J. Peak, Georgetown
5. Isaiah Zierden, Creighton
6. Remy Abell, Xavier
7. Derrick Gordon, Seton Hall
8. Kyron Cartwright, Providence
9. Marcus LoVett Jr., St. John's
10. Aaron Simpson, Depaul

Small Forwards:
1. Roosevelt Jones, Butler
2. Josh Hart, Villanova
3. Myke Henry, Depaul
4. Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
5. Isaiah Whitehead, Seton Hall
6. Durand Johnson, St. John's
7. James Miliken, Creighton
8. Sandy Cohen, Marquette
9. Paul White, Georgetown
10. Jalen Lindsey, Providence

Power Forwards:
1. Henry Ellenson, Marquette
2. Jalen Reynolds, Xavier
3. Darien Williams, St. John's
4. Isaac Copeland, Georgetown
5. Kris Jenkins, Villanova
6. Cole Huff, Creighton
7. Desi Rodriguez, Seton Hall
8. Kelan Martin, Butler
9. Rodney Bullock, Providence
10. Rashaun Stimage, Depaul

Centers:
1. Daniel Ochefu, Villanova
2. Angel Delgado, Seton Hall
3. Luke Fischer, Marquette
4. Tommy Hamilton IV, Depaul
5. Andrew Chrabascz, Butler
6. Jessie Govan, Georgetown
7. Ben Bentil, Providence
8. James Farr, Xavier
9. Toby Hegner, Creighton
10. Amar Alibegovic, St. John's

[wadesworld]

People were starting to do this in another thread, but I thought it was an interesting enough discussion to have its own.

For me it looks like this:

Point Guards:
1. Kris Dunn, Providence
2. D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, Georgetown
3. Billy Garret Jr., Depaul
4. Jalen Brunson, Villanova
5. Mo Watson Jr., Creighton
6. Myles Davis, Xavier
7. Tyler Lewis, Butler
8. Khadeen Carrington, Seton Hall
9. Traci Carter, Marquette
10. Fredrico Mussini, St. John's

Shooting Guards:
1. Ryan Arcidiacano, Villanova
2. Kellen Dunham, Butler
3. Duane Wilson, Marquette
4. L.J. Peak, Georgetown
5. Isaiah Zierden, Creighton
6. Remy Abell, Xavier
7. Derrick Gordon, Seton Hall
8. Kyron Cartwright, Providence
9. Marcus LoVett Jr., St. John's
10. Aaron Simpson, Depaul

Small Forwards:
1. Roosevelt Jones, Butler
2. Josh Hart, Villanova
3. Myke Henry, Depaul
4. Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
5. Isaiah Whitehead, Seton Hall
6. Durand Johnson, St. John's
7. James Miliken, Creighton
8. Sandy Cohen, Marquette
9. Paul White, Georgetown
10. Jalen Lindsey, Providence

Power Forwards:
1. Henry Ellenson, Marquette
2. Jalen Reynolds, Xavier
3. Darien Williams, St. John's
4. Isaac Copeland, Georgetown
5. Kris Jenkins, Villanova
6. Cole Huff, Creighton
7. Desi Rodriguez, Seton Hall
8. Kelan Martin, Butler
9. Rodney Bullock, Providence
10. Rashaun Stimage, Depaul

Centers:
1. Daniel Ochefu, Villanova
2. Angel Delgado, Seton Hall
3. Luke Fischer, Marquette
4. Tommy Hamilton IV, Depaul
5. Andrew Chrabascz, Butler
6. Jessie Govan, Georgetown
7. Ben Bentil, Providence
8. James Farr, Xavier
9. Toby Hegner, Creighton
10. Amar Alibegovic, St. John's

If you're going based solely on basketball skills then most of these are probably right.  But there are some guys like Delgado and Whitehead who I would not want on my team under any circumstances.

Also, it will be interesting to see what positions some of these guys end up playing.  Dunham and Arci are both far better point guards than what Derrick Wilson would be, but they are both far better on the ball than off the ball offensively.  If those 2 really do play the 2 guard I personally would take Duane as a 2 guard over those 2.  If I had to list them regardless of position I would take Arci 1 (as a PG), Duane 2 (as a SG), Dunham 3 (as a PG).  As PGs 1 Arci, 2 Dunham, 3 Duane.  As SG 1 Duane, 2 Dunham, 3 Arci.

I also think Andrew Chrabascz would be better off playing the 4 as he would provide similar matchup problems, though to a lesser extent, that Hank does for Marquette.  That kid is a real player and regardless of what position he is playing I personally think he's a top 10 player in the entire BE (AKA an All BE caliber player).

Luke and Ochefu take your pick, both are very good players and both will play in the NBA.  Delgado probably has the highest ceiling out of all 3 of those, but again, I would never, ever want that kid anywhere near my program.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I agree with your current ranking of Traci but I do think he has a chance to move up by seasons end.

[MU82]

People were starting to do this in another thread, but I thought it was an interesting enough discussion to have its own.

For me it looks like this:

Point Guards:
1. Kris Dunn, Providence
2. D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, Georgetown
3. Billy Garret Jr., Depaul
4. Jalen Brunson, Villanova
5. Mo Watson Jr., Creighton
6. Myles Davis, Xavier
7. Tyler Lewis, Butler
8. Khadeen Carrington, Seton Hall
9. Traci Carter, Marquette
10. Fredrico Mussini, St. John's

Shooting Guards:
1. Ryan Arcidiacano, Villanova
2. Kellen Dunham, Butler
3. Duane Wilson, Marquette
4. L.J. Peak, Georgetown
5. Isaiah Zierden, Creighton
6. Remy Abell, Xavier
7. Derrick Gordon, Seton Hall
8. Kyron Cartwright, Providence
9. Marcus LoVett Jr., St. John's
10. Aaron Simpson, Depaul

Small Forwards:
1. Roosevelt Jones, Butler
2. Josh Hart, Villanova
3. Myke Henry, Depaul
4. Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
5. Isaiah Whitehead, Seton Hall
6. Durand Johnson, St. John's
7. James Miliken, Creighton
8. Sandy Cohen, Marquette
9. Paul White, Georgetown
10. Jalen Lindsey, Providence

Power Forwards:
1. Henry Ellenson, Marquette
2. Jalen Reynolds, Xavier
3. Darien Williams, St. John's
4. Isaac Copeland, Georgetown
5. Kris Jenkins, Villanova
6. Cole Huff, Creighton
7. Desi Rodriguez, Seton Hall
8. Kelan Martin, Butler
9. Rodney Bullock, Providence
10. Rashaun Stimage, Depaul

Centers:
1. Daniel Ochefu, Villanova
2. Angel Delgado, Seton Hall
3. Luke Fischer, Marquette
4. Tommy Hamilton IV, Depaul
5. Andrew Chrabascz, Butler
6. Jessie Govan, Georgetown
7. Ben Bentil, Providence
8. James Farr, Xavier
9. Toby Hegner, Creighton
10. Amar Alibegovic, St. John's

Man, TAMU, I am more than impressed that you could name all of these people and their positions, even though I'm sure you used their team sites as a guide.

As far as the rankings, I defer to you on that! I can't wait to see Henry play an actual game. Never saw him in HS, didn't see any of the Italy trip, don't get much out of videos.

[6Under20]

Scoring this CC style ( which has no basis in reality) the final rankings look like this:

1. Nova.      13
2. Butler.     23
3. Marquette 24
4.  GU.         25
5.  XU.         26
6.  SH.         29
7.  DePaul    30
8.  CU.         33
9.  Prov.       35
10  SJ.         38

I'd take a 3rd place finish in the Big East!!  It should be a fun year.

[keefe]

Man, TAMU, I am more than impressed that you could name all of these people and their positions, even though I'm sure you used their team sites as a guide.

As far as the rankings, I defer to you on that! I can't wait to see Henry play an actual game. Never saw him in HS, didn't see any of the Italy trip, don't get much out of videos.

I was going to say the same thing - I couldn't possibly name all the players much less do a rack and stack.

I am impressed. Especially for an Aggie!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I was going to say the same thing - I couldn't possibly name all the players much less do a rack and stack.

I am impressed. Especially for an Aggie!!

Hey, I just work here. I learned all them fancy counting skills at Marquette

[LAMUfan]

As far as the rankings, I defer to you on that! I can't wait to see Henry play an actual game. Never saw him in HS, didn't see any of the Italy trip, don't get much out of videos.

You know you can watch the Italy games online right? Gonna be a long wait otherwise.

[MarquetteDano]

Great list TAMU.  One thing that stands out about that list is the weakness at shooting guard in the Big East.  After Peak (who is #4) that is a really weak group. 

[jsglow]

Great work TAMU. Glad the thought process started.  Perhaps we can keep track of sorts through the year.  One thing to note. Having top flight bigs can be a game changer.

[keefe]

I am curious what people think about how our team would look if we had Burton this year? This isn't a criticism of Cohen but, rather, looking at the very different game Burton has and how that might have blossomed with a proper 1 and legitimate threats down low and from deep.

I think that Burton's offense would have brought a compelling dimension to an otherwise versatile arsenal of weapons. 

[Galway Eagle]

Holylandof hoops did this for PG, 2G, and C and they have some different names. But I like your takes better

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4535&sid=9752d79f319a3ffd53f12036107d4065

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4549&sid=832292572de4d2840aaabbb08a8022ae

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4525&sid=9752d79f319a3ffd53f12036107d4065

[VegasWarrior77]

Thanks for the info TAMU.  I'm glad we have enough talent this year to actually be able to rank the BEast!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Holylandof hoops did this for PG, 2G, and C and they have some different names. But I like your takes better

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4535&sid=9752d79f319a3ffd53f12036107d4065

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4549&sid=832292572de4d2840aaabbb08a8022ae

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4525&sid=9752d79f319a3ffd53f12036107d4065

I could definitely be wrong about who ends up starting for some of these teams. It's just my best guess based on depth charts from last year and what rumors I've heard. For example, I have DSR playing the 1 not the 2. I don't think Tre Cambell is good enough yet to be their primary ballhander and have him coming off the bench. I could be completely wrong. They also have Edmond Sumner starting for X, which is not happening. They also lumped all big men together. And Jalen Lindsey is not a 2....basically, they are bad lists, lol

[PGsHeroes32]

I am curious what people think about how our team would look if we had Burton this year? This isn't a criticism of Cohen but, rather, looking at the very different game Burton has and how that might have blossomed with a proper 1 and legitimate threats down low and from deep.

I think that Burton's offense would have brought a compelling dimension to an otherwise versatile arsenal of weapons.

Deonte would thrive with Luke and Henry down low. It's a shame he decided to blow a year of basketball and move on. But it is what it is.

Now we get to see some other massive talents develop. So we will go with what we got.

[wadesworld]

Personally, I think Sandy is a better fit on this team.  Carter and Duane can both get to the rim from the perimeter (as can Hank), and Hank and Luke can score in the post.  We need someone on offense who can spread the floor, and Burton could not do that.  Also, Burton never saw a shot he didn't like, and he didn't have any interest in playing defense.  You aren't going to have 5 guys in your starting lineup who are all going to go for 15 a game.  You need guys to play different roles.  At the 3 spot we need someone who will spread the floor and at least try to defend.  Sandy does that, Deonte doesn't.

[naginiF]

Personally, I think Sandy is a better fit on this team.  Carter and Duane can both get to the rim from the perimeter (as can Hank), and Hank and Luke can score in the post.  We need someone on offense who can spread the floor, and Burton could not do that.  Also, Burton never saw a shot he didn't like, and he didn't have any interest in playing defense.  You aren't going to have 5 guys in your starting lineup who are all going to go for 15 a game.  You need guys to play different roles.  At the 3 spot we need someone who will spread the floor and at least try to defend.  Sandy does that, Deonte doesn't.

This is the key for me.  With less defensive intensity that would mean Luke and Henry rotating to cover more often and, therefore, more opportunities for front court fouls.  Ultimately that would mean less court time for Henry and Luke and wind up being more of a detriment to the success of the team. 

The offense would've been highly entertaining though and it would've been fun to see how Wojo handled the balancing act. 

[MuMark]

Burton was a bad fit for how Wojo wants to play. He has always dominated the ball......Sandy is more of a glue guy who can shoot the 3.

Best of luck to Burton but I'm more then happy to have Sandy, Anim and JJ to play that slot.

[WarriorPA]

Personally, I think Sandy is a better fit on this team.  Carter and Duane can both get to the rim from the perimeter (as can Hank), and Hank and Luke can score in the post.  We need someone on offense who can spread the floor, and Burton could not do that.  Also, Burton never saw a shot he didn't like, and he didn't have any interest in playing defense.  You aren't going to have 5 guys in your starting lineup who are all going to go for 15 a game.  You need guys to play different roles.  At the 3 spot we need someone who will spread the floor and at least try to defend.  Sandy does that, Deonte doesn't.

I get your point on this, but Villanova had 6 guys average between 9 and 15 ppg last year so that isn't necessarily true. I do agree with others that its possible that Sandy/JJ/Anim are a better fit for this team with the bigs we have plus what we need defensively. I know Nova flopped in the tournament, but we would all love a season with Big East regular season and tournament championships and a #1 seed in the tourney. Not saying that would happen, but we can dream!

[barfolomew]

One thing that stands out about that list is the weakness at shooting guard in the Big East.  After Peak (who is #4) that is a really weak group.

I think you could say that about the 3, 4, and 5 as well.
I'm much lazier than TAMU, and am not about to rank other conferences by position, but I would guess it would be the same thing in most conferences.

More telling to me is the depth of PGs in the league.

[Dawson Rental]

Deonte would thrive with Luke and Henry down low. It's a shame he decided to blow a year of basketball and move on. But it is what it is.

Now we get to see some other massive talents develop. So we will go with what we got.

I have a very difficult time seeing Deonte thriving on any team with Wojo as the head coach, particularly this year with the offense speeding up.

[Jay Bee]

I am curious what people think about how our team would look if we had Burton this year? This isn't a criticism of Cohen but, rather, looking at the very different game Burton has and how that might have blossomed with a proper 1 and legitimate threats down low and from deep.

I think that Burton's offense would have brought a compelling dimension to an otherwise versatile arsenal of weapons.

MBD would have been phenomenal. Such a tremendous loss.

ISU has mega issues, including Jameel's pouting,.... hope it goes well for MBD down there. Really wish he was still a Warrior.

[Loose Cannon]

Burton was a bad fit for how Wojo wants to play. He has always dominated the ball......Sandy is more of a glue guy who can shoot the 3.

Best of luck to Burton but I'm more then happy to have Sandy, Anim and JJ to play that slot.

This works for me.  I don't see Burton's overall play meshing with Wojo's plans for the up-tempo offense & Defense.

Hope he has a great career at Iowa State.

[MarquetteDano]

I think you could say that about the 3, 4, and 5 as well.
I'm much lazier than TAMU, and am not about to rank other conferences by position, but I would guess it would be the same thing in most conferences.

More telling to me is the depth of PGs in the league.

I am not sure I agree with the exception of the power forward position.  The #5 ranked player at small forward is a top ten RSCI recruit and will be outstanding at some point.  Paul White is ranked #9 (think he should be higher) and he is very, very good.

At center Chrabasz (ranked #5) just schooled us last year and James Farr at #8 (think he should be higher) is a very good player as well.

For college basketball guards are key and the Big East has plenty of good points but shooting guard is looking a little weak this year.

[brandx]

Good job, TAMU.

I might have had Carter a couple spots higher, but overall, a pretty impressive job.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I am not sure I agree with the exception of the power forward position.  The #5 ranked player at small forward is a top ten RSCI recruit and will be outstanding at some point.  Paul White is ranked #9 (think he should be higher) and he is very, very good.

At center Chrabasz (ranked #5) just schooled us last year and James Farr at #8 (think he should be higher) is a very good player as well.

For college basketball guards are key and the Big East has plenty of good points but shooting guard is looking a little weak this year.

Farr ain't that good. He was soft in high school and is soft now.

[keefe]

He was soft in high school and is soft now.

Maybe he should schedule some time with Doc's female hygienist who helps him with the yankin'

[Jay Bee]

Paul White is ranked #9 (think he should be higher) and he is very, very good.

2.7% OR%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MU82]

You know you can watch the Italy games online right? Gonna be a long wait otherwise.

Fair enough.

But I am a very patient man, and will happily wait to see how our best freshman in a zillion years looks when we take on Belmont.

[Jet915]

It's still early but Creighton's starting lineup will likely look like this:

PG:  Watson
SG:  Milliken
SF:  Huff
PF:  Hegner
C:  Groselle

[wadesworld]

Farr ain't that good. He was soft in high school and is soft now.

Farr's 5.3 RPG and nearly 1 BPG in just 15 MPG last year would disagree with your assessment of him as soft, but that won't let your "his beat daddy's team in high school" view become unclouded.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Farr's 5.3 RPG and nearly 1 BPG in just 15 MPG last year would disagree with your assessment of him as soft, but that won't let your "his beat daddy's team in high school" view become unclouded.

Nah, they beat him. Nice try though. I told you he wasn't very good. He didn't even start for that Evanston team that year.

[wadesworld]

Nah, they beat him. Nice try though. I told you he wasn't very good. He didn't even start for that Evanston team that year.

Yeah you're right, it's pretty common for guys who aren't very good at basketball to start for Sweet 16 teams, and most guys who are soft get a rebound every 3 minutes...

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yeah you're right, it's pretty common for guys who aren't very good at basketball to start for Sweet 16 teams, and most guys who are soft get a rebound every 3 minutes...

I don't know what you want me to say. I'm telling you my experience watching him play. He was 6'8" going against guys much shorter then he was and didn't have a huge impact on the game. I think he's soft Luke and Henry will abuse him in the post.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's still early but Creighton's starting lineup will likely look like this:

PG:  Watson
SG:  Milliken
SF:  Huff
PF:  Hegner
C:  Groselle

Is Zierden still hurt? Or did he take a step backwards?

[muwarrior69]

Holylandof hoops did this for PG, 2G, and C and they have some different names. But I like your takes better

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4535&sid=9752d79f319a3ffd53f12036107d4065

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4549&sid=832292572de4d2840aaabbb08a8022ae

http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4525&sid=9752d79f319a3ffd53f12036107d4065

Well the last link says "Big Man". I'll concede it may mean the center position, but how the hell they could leave Henry out of that discussion is beyond me. Those "Holyland" folks are in for a "BIG" surprise.

[MarquetteDano]

2.7% OR%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His freshmen campaign.  Let's see how his sophomore season turns out as we are talking about this upcoming season.

[Herman Cain]

People were starting to do this in another thread, but I thought it was an interesting enough discussion to have its own.

For me it looks like this:

Point Guards:
1. Kris Dunn, Providence
2. D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, Georgetown
3. Billy Garret Jr., Depaul
4. Jalen Brunson, Villanova
5. Mo Watson Jr., Creighton
6. Myles Davis, Xavier
7. Tyler Lewis, Butler
8. Khadeen Carrington, Seton Hall
9. Traci Carter, Marquette
10. Fredrico Mussini, St. John's

Shooting Guards:
1. Ryan Arcidiacano, Villanova
2. Kellen Dunham, Butler
3. Duane Wilson, Marquette
4. L.J. Peak, Georgetown
5. Isaiah Zierden, Creighton
6. Remy Abell, Xavier
7. Derrick Gordon, Seton Hall
8. Kyron Cartwright, Providence
9. Marcus LoVett Jr., St. John's
10. Aaron Simpson, Depaul

Small Forwards:
1. Roosevelt Jones, Butler
2. Josh Hart, Villanova
3. Myke Henry, Depaul
4. Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
5. Isaiah Whitehead, Seton Hall
6. Durand Johnson, St. John's
7. James Miliken, Creighton
8. Sandy Cohen, Marquette
9. Paul White, Georgetown
10. Jalen Lindsey, Providence

Power Forwards:
1. Henry Ellenson, Marquette
2. Jalen Reynolds, Xavier
3. Darien Williams, St. John's
4. Isaac Copeland, Georgetown
5. Kris Jenkins, Villanova
6. Cole Huff, Creighton
7. Desi Rodriguez, Seton Hall
8. Kelan Martin, Butler
9. Rodney Bullock, Providence
10. Rashaun Stimage, Depaul

Centers:
1. Daniel Ochefu, Villanova
2. Angel Delgado, Seton Hall
3. Luke Fischer, Marquette
4. Tommy Hamilton IV, Depaul
5. Andrew Chrabascz, Butler
6. Jessie Govan, Georgetown
7. Ben Bentil, Providence
8. James Farr, Xavier
9. Toby Hegner, Creighton
10. Amar Alibegovic, St. John's

Excellent job with this. If Durand Johnson is healthy his rating may be higher. Also I am not ready to declare Traci as our starting PG until I see how Haanif does .

[naginiF]

Excellent job with this. If Durand Johnson is healthy his rating may be higher. Also I am not ready to declare Traci as our starting PG until I see how Haanif does .

That Engine's leaving the station, I'd suggest jumping on board.

[Jet915]

Is Zierden still hurt? Or did he take a step backwards?

Doing drills but no contact yet.  They are hoping he can start doing full practice by October.  I suspect he will be coming in from the bench atleast at the beginning...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

His freshmen campaign.  Let's see how his sophomore season turns out as we are talking about this upcoming season.

We are talking about this upcoming season, but I based these rankings off data from last year. I have no way of knowing if Paul White is going to develop or not. I'm not going to give him a boost just because he was a top 100 freshman last year. Of the 10 players who I think will start at SF in the Big East this season, he played the 2nd worst last season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Excellent job with this. If Durand Johnson is healthy his rating may be higher. Also I am not ready to declare Traci as our starting PG until I see how Haanif does .

Haanif may be the better overall basketball player, but I doubt he's a better PG than Traci. Could be wrong but I think the engine is our starter.

[MarquetteDano]

We are talking about this upcoming season, but I based these rankings off data from last year. I have no way of knowing if Paul White is going to develop or not. I'm not going to give him a boost just because he was a top 100 freshman last year. Of the 10 players who I think will start at SF in the Big East this season, he played the 2nd worst last season.

I hear ya.  My overall point is that shooting guard looks weak this year based on last season's returnees and potential.  I am sure there will be surprises at every position but unless there are a lot of surprises at shooting guard the Big East will be weak in that area.