Luke Fischer

[The Lens]

This is the best:

Hoosier Fan A:

You can't be talking to me because I never think we should win at all cost and I think any player who gets caught doing drugs or drinking should be gone

Hoosier Fan B:

But you're perfectly ok with the Sweet 16.Once you lower standards for one thing, it lowers them for all.

[jaygall31]

Maybe i'm crazy, but I think Luke's game is exactly what we want. Henry will be doing the mid range shooting, no?
Idk.

[tower912]

Luke's game would be better if he could consistently knock down a 12-15 ft jumper.   The mere threat of an effective jumper would make his post moves more effective.   

[Galway Eagle]

Luke's game would be better if he could consistently knock down a 12-15 ft jumper.   The mere threat of an effective jumper would make his post moves more effective.

It's mentioned in some of the old transfer articles that he has one. I guess wojo stopped working on it?

[#UnleashSean]

Wait, Creighton is close to home?  Bloomington is bigger than Omaha?  Jeeze, here I thought the 5 hour 40 minute drive from Germantown to Bloomington was shorter than the 8 hour drive from Germantown to Omaha and that Omaha's population of 435,000+ people was more than Bloomington's population of 83,000.  Silly me.

Shocking that Chicos would go out of his way to make himself look foolish in an attempt to save face for Crean.

Also shocking that a 19 year old college basketball player wouldn't come out and say, "I am not comfortable with the rampant drug use and lack of accountability within the basketball program so I am looking to transfer."

 

Creighton is smaller then IU though.

[#UnleashSean]

So, Marquette gets it's first legitimate inside presence in almost two decades and you want to move him to the perimeter?  That's taking contrarian thinking a little too far for me.

I believe Davante Gardner would have a word with you. He destroyed everyone inside.

[rocket surgeon]

I believe Davante Gardner would have a word with you. He destroyed everyone inside.

count the basket and...automatic...automatic...

[wadesworld]

Luke is a true post.  He doesn't need to develop a 15 foot jumper in the college game.  The kid shot 61% from the field last year.  He's not going to shoot 62+% from 15 and out.  That's just going to lower his efficiency.

Shaq's game wouldn't have been any better by him developing a 15 foot jumper.  Some people are best planting their butt under the rim and going to work.  That's where Luke eats.  He used to shoot (and make) 3 pointers at Germantown.  But why stand out there and shoot 30% from there when you shoot 70% under the bucket?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Luke is a true post.  He doesn't need to develop a 15 foot jumper in the college game.  The kid shot 61% from the field last year.  He's not going to shoot 62+% from 15 and out.  That's just going to lower his efficiency.

Shaq's game wouldn't have been any better by him developing a 15 foot jumper.  Some people are best planting their butt under the rim and going to work.  That's where Luke eats.  He used to shoot (and make) 3 pointers at Germantown.  But why stand out there and shoot 30% from there when you shoot 70% under the bucket?

Because that 15 foot jumper adds another weapon to your arsenal that the defense has to account for. Just like a solid running game makes your passing game better in football, the ability to hit a short jumper makes your post moves more effective. Is it necessary? No. Should he take a lot of 15 foot jumpers? No. But if he has the look and can make it, it will make him a more effective post.

[THRILLHO]

Because that 15 foot jumper adds another weapon to your arsenal that the defense has to account for. Just like a solid running game makes your passing game better in football, the ability to hit a short jumper makes your post moves more effective. Is it necessary? No. Should he take a lot of 15 foot jumpers? No. But if he has the look and can make it, it will make him a more effective post.

Just to take a very concrete look at this -- do you think it's true that (1) the lower shooting % on jumpers will be compensated for by higher shooting % on paint shots and his overall shooting % will stay the same or go up? Or that (2) his paint shooting % will stay the same but he'll have more opportunities to get the ball there (and more shots overall)? Or that (3) he'll generally be more versatile and his being able to plausibly play from midrange territory improves spacing so that team shooting % will go up? I guess it's hard to convince myself that 1 is true. Since his overall usage wasn't crazy high 2 could be true. (3) is getting complex enough that it seems like it would be hard to empirically evaluate.

[brewcity77]

Just to take a very concrete look at this -- do you think it's true that (1) the lower shooting % on jumpers will be compensated for by higher shooting % on paint shots and his overall shooting % will stay the same or go up? Or that (2) his paint shooting % will stay the same but he'll have more opportunities to get the ball there (and more shots overall)? Or that (3) he'll generally be more versatile and his being able to plausibly play from midrange territory improves spacing so that team shooting % will go up? I guess it's hard to convince myself that 1 is true. Since his overall usage wasn't crazy high 2 could be true. (3) is getting complex enough that it seems like it would be hard to empirically evaluate.

I do think it has more value, and of those, 3 is probably the closest to the truth, though not exactly why. If you can hit the midrange, it forces the defense to account for you out there. That can do a few things. First, it can pull the big defenders out as they guard the guy that can hit the midrange, opening the lane for other drivers (good option for a passing big, which Luke is). Second, it can create mismatches as you may draw a smaller defender, allowing the big man that can hit the midrange to shoot over his defender. Third, it can allow the big more freedom to make moves as he can draw his defender out, opening up the lane for him to get by said defender.

Of those three, I'd say for a guy like Luke, the first and second options would be the most viable. I just don't trust him enough to put the ball on the floor a couple times while trying to dribble around a defender from 15 feet to get to the hoop.

[GGGG]

Luke is a true post.  He doesn't need to develop a 15 foot jumper in the college game.  The kid shot 61% from the field last year.  He's not going to shoot 62+% from 15 and out.  That's just going to lower his efficiency.

Shaq's game wouldn't have been any better by him developing a 15 foot jumper.  Some people are best planting their butt under the rim and going to work.  That's where Luke eats.  He used to shoot (and make) 3 pointers at Germantown.  But why stand out there and shoot 30% from there when you shoot 70% under the bucket?

Shaq's game would have been immensely better had he developed a 15 foot shot.  He just couldn't shoot.  Any time you add more versatility to your game, the harder you are to guard and the more defenses have to account for you.  Really if Shaq had developed anything resembling Tim Duncan's mid-range game, he would likely go down as the best big man in NBA history.

This is the first time I have seen anyone in a basketball thread arguing that adding additional dimensions to your game isn't a good thing. 

Now I think we can all agree that the OP's suggestion that Wojo might not be doing him any favors, and that it might be "off limits" for him to shoot that shot is a little odd.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bueller...Chico's....MIA

-Indiana Boards

I'm right here, sorry I missed your post.  College kids drinking at college.  I'm thunderstruck.

[wadesworld]

I'm right here, sorry I missed your post.  College kids drinking at college.  I'm thunderstruck.

You would've been all over this if this was Bert.

[wadesworld]

Shaq's game would have been immensely better had he developed a 15 foot shot.  He just couldn't shoot.  Any time you add more versatility to your game, the harder you are to guard and the more defenses have to account for you.  Really if Shaq had developed anything resembling Tim Duncan's mid-range game, he would likely go down as the best big man in NBA history.

This is the first time I have seen anyone in a basketball thread arguing that adding additional dimensions to your game isn't a good thing. 

Now I think we can all agree that the OP's suggestion that Wojo might not be doing him any favors, and that it might be "off limits" for him to shoot that shot is a little odd.

Sure, if he has the low post game perfected and it's either do nothing to improve your game and stay where you are or start working on a 15 foot jumper in practice then you might as well go ahead and work on your perimeter game.  But again, I don't see the need unless that is absolutely perfected, and it's not.  I'd rather have Luke continue to work on his low post game and shoot over 60% from the field with all of his shots coming from inside 8 feet than have him shoot 50% from the field overall because now he's taking 4 less shots from where he's shooting 60+% and moving them out to where he's going to shoot 35% from.  Who cares if the defense doesn't have to guard him from 15 feet when they can't stop him from 8 and in?

[GGGG]

Sure, if he has the low post game perfected and it's either do nothing to improve your game and stay where you are or start working on a 15 foot jumper in practice then you might as well go ahead and work on your perimeter game.  But again, I don't see the need unless that is absolutely perfected, and it's not.  I'd rather have Luke continue to work on his low post game and shoot over 60% from the field with all of his shots coming from inside 8 feet than have him shoot 50% from the field overall because now he's taking 4 less shots from where he's shooting 60+% and moving them out to where he's going to shoot 35% from.  Who cares if the defense doesn't have to guard him from 15 feet when they can't stop him from 8 and in?

You are making the assumption that he would have a finite number of shots per game.  Last year he averaged 8 or so.  If he had the 15 foot shot as part of his arsenal, he would have likely had more shots.  And yes, while his efficiency may have gone down, overall team efficiency may have actually increased under such a scenario.  If he has another weapon that defenses have to respect, it opens passing lanes, driving lanes, etc. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

You would've been all over this if this was Bert.

If it led to a bunch of them also getting into a fight with fellow students \ non students...yes.  Which is what happened to Bert's boys...three times that we publicly know of.

Context is everything.

[GGGG]

Yet you ignored the context in the IU case.  The one of the offenders is a repeat offender - you know, the guy whose was drunk driving when the other player jumped into it...or whatever you claimed earlier?

[wadesworld]

You are making the assumption that he would have a finite number of shots per game.  Last year he averaged 8 or so.  If he had the 15 foot shot as part of his arsenal, he would have likely had more shots.  And yes, while his efficiency may have gone down, overall team efficiency may have actually increased under such a scenario.  If he has another weapon that defenses have to respect, it opens passing lanes, driving lanes, etc.

All fair points.  It'd be interesting to see.  I know Luke has good shooting touch and hit 3 pointers in high school, but obviously it's much different hitting a 3 pointer in high school and even consistently hitting a 12-15 footer in the Big East.  Right now I think him being our one true back to the basket post is the priority and I am fine if he doesn't shoot outside of 8-10 feet this season.  If he adds that to his game then we'll be an even better team.

[MU82]

What would help Luke a lot would be if he had a bit of a face-up game.

Now, he catches the ball in the post and either backs in to shoot a little hook or has to pass back out.

If he could catch that ball in the post, turn and face the basket (and his defender) and either quickly shoot over him or do a pump-fake and/or a drop-step, it would add a nice little dimension.

This kind of move would help ANY post, not just Luke.

Having said that, every player has a role tied to his skills. And if Luke's skills mean he can only be a back-to-the-basket post, it is up to Wojo to use others' skills around that.

It looks like we have more players with considerably more skills than last season, which is very encouraging.

[Galway Eagle]

If it led to a bunch of them also getting into a fight with fellow students \ non students...yes.  Which is what happened to Bert's boys...three times that we publicly know of.

Context is everything.

Wait I remember Vander punching the kid in qdoba, and the brawl that was caught on tape at the club what's the other one?

[wadesworld]

Wait I remember Vander punching the kid in qdoba, and the brawl that was caught on tape at the club what's the other one?

The "brawl at the club" that started as "DJO broke a glass bottle over someone's head" by Badger fans (and maybe Chicos/Hoopaloop at that time, to make Bert look "squirmy"), only to have the video come out and finding out it was really some players being moved out of the club because other people were fighting?  I'm sure Chicos/Hoopaloop was all over that, when in reality all that ever came of it was a couple of players getting cited for being in a club underage (not even an underage drinking ticket).  But with the latest of the many IU incidents under Crean, it's just college kids being college kids.  Chicos calling a spade a spade, a'ina?

[tower912]

I always loved that one.   Cited for being in a bar underage but not drinking. 

[Lennys Tap]

If it led to a bunch of them also getting into a fight with fellow students \ non students...yes.  Which is what happened to Bert's boys...three times that we publicly know of.

Context is everything.

The first incident was Vander punching another student who (allegedly) made a racist remark. No mention of alcohol being involved.

The second turned out to be a total non event. No fight, no drinking. Underage basketball team members were in a club where alcohol was being served, nothing more.

Don't remember what the third incident was - if there was one.

At IU it's booze, drugs, driving when impaired, multiple offenses from the same people. The latest is the most pathetic. Sitting in a car outside a 7 Eleven at 1:00 am drinking vodka from a bottle . 7 alcohol/drug incidents in a very short time frame. That's IU's "context". That's IU's culture.

[swoopem]

The first incident was Vander punching another student who (allegedly) made a racist remark. No mention of alcohol being involved.

The second turned out to be a total non event. No fight, no drinking. Underage basketball team members were in a club where alcohol was being served, nothing more.

Don't remember what the third incident was - if there was one.

At IU it's booze, drugs, driving when impaired, multiple offenses from the same people. The latest is the most pathetic. Sitting in a car outside a 7 Eleven at 1:00 am drinking vodka from a bottle . 7 alcohol/drug incidents in a very short time frame. That's IU's "context". That's IU's culture.

Yeah I don't really get the whole drinking while sitting in a parked car thing. You're on a college campus, go to a party where it'll A) be way more fun, B) there's a much smaller chance of getting in trouble, and C) you'll probably be treated like a celebrity. These kids were almost asking to be caught.