Thoughts from Italy

[Anti-Dentite]

Do you realize who you're replyin' to, hey?

Mike Deane's Dark Glasses?

[Jay Bee]

I have been there. I have seen Rob Jeter and Buzz Williams there too. I have talked to Brian Wardle about it. It is foolish to think there is no value to ProAm in a period when coaches cannot conduct practices. At least three state D1 coaches think it is a good idea.

D-I coaches are not allowed to attend certified summer leagues. Doing so is a clear secondary violation that must be reported to the NCAA.

[TedBaxter]

http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/basketball-certification/league-operators

This seems to indicate college coaches can attend as long as there isn't prospective recruits, so they can watch their own players.

[jsglow]

Marquette has played three glorified scrimmages in nearly the most casual atmosphere and the net result is a backcourt found for the next 85-100 games in addition to one of our top recruiting targets now suddenly looking elsewhere because of these events in Italy.

The circle jerk regarding this foreign tour the last week has been popcorn popping hysterical.

And during those scrimmages Duane has played plenty of #1 because Haanif isn't available.  But if you think for a second that Wojo isn't spending every minute possible preparing for the future you are naive.  He doesn't waste time and this isn't a vacation.  And it's clear to me even at this early stage that the starting guard line will be Carter/Wilson, just like it was postulated way back in March when word went out that Traci would be given 'every opportunity'.  Well, he's passed the first 30 day test with flying colors.  Will Carter struggle at times?  Sure.  But every rep he gets will make him better.  So Wojo will be maximizing his reps between now and January 1.  The kid is going to play until his tongue drags on the floor during non-con.  And he'll understand and appreciate every trip down the floor. 

As to the Coffey connection I admitted that was just a thought and might mean absolutely nothing.  Heck, Coffey might commit to us next week for all I know.  But don't think for a moment kids don't consider the current roster when making a decision. 

[jsglow]

I have to disagree with this. The Pro Am is playground ball. Nothing more.

Marquette is playing pro teams in Europe. Their next opponent signed at least three former Marquette guys over the recent past. To compare organized professional European teams with the frenetic mayhem of the Pro Am is grossly understating the skill and talent we have faced on this tour. (Vicenza Select is the outlier as it was formed just for the summer American college circuit.)

I am hoping Wojo pulls a Duke, which banned its players from playing in the NC Pro Am. Wojo runs a very structured program. Players learn nothing in an open gym while running the risk of injury. There is only downside with the Pro Am.

I'm not going to go quite as far as keefe on this but the Pro-Am is glorified playground ball compared to the preparation and execution demanded by Wojo on this trip.  I'm not too sure our guys got much out of Pro-Am historically.  But this trip is more like early season non-con.  And yes, if you're asking, I've been at the Sunday Pro-Am finals several years in a row.  It's fun but not much more.

[Benny B]

I'm not going to go quite as far as keefe on this but the Pro-Am is glorified playground ball compared to the preparation and execution demanded by Wojo on this trip.  I'm not too sure our guys got much out of Pro-Am historically.  But this trip is more like early season non-con.  And yes, if you're asking, I've been at the Sunday Pro-Am finals several years in a row.  It's fun but not much more.

Exactly.  In fact, it's quite simple, really...

(from the players' perspective)
Pro-Am = Fun
Italy = Work

A good coach of a good program, i.e. one that needs not pander to its players, doesn't need to allow his players play in a Pro-Am

[Dawson Rental]

I believe DWilson to score from PG is essential in today's game. My money is still on him playing PG much of the year.

OK, lots of season left.

[chapman]

Legit games against established teams, with our team playing together and traveling together for 10 days.  Not even comparable to the Pro Am.  Players don't even show up to the Pro Am if they get distracted or can't get a ride.  The coach can just encourage the players to have an NBA2K game night or bring them a puppy if he doesn't want to flat-out ban them from attending.  And when's the last time we pulled in Thomas to announce the Pro Am? 

[Jay Bee]

http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/basketball-certification/league-operators

This seems to indicate college coaches can attend as long as there isn't prospective recruits, so they can watch their own players.

False. There is a difference between a certified league and a certified EVENT.

"In order for Division I coaches to attend, you would also have to be granted event certified and then they could only attend on permissible dates in July. There are significant differences in the requirements for event certification and it is a much more time-consuming process."

[wadesworld]

Anim reminds me of sophomore year Jimmy Butler.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Abin reminds me of sophomore year Jimmy Butler.

You love yourself some Anim.  Wasn't too hot on him at first but I admit I've started coming around and seeing the potential. Still think JJJ gets the 6th man role but should be interesting with Cheatham and Sacar in the mix.

[wadesworld]

You love yourself some Anim.  Wasn't too hot on him at first but I admit I've started coming around and seeing the potential. Still think JJJ gets the 6th man role but should be interesting with Cheatham and Sacar in the mix.

Butler's sophomore year he was just the guy who would get 8 and 8 and you wouldn't notice him at all. All his points came on the offensive glass. Just being in the right place at the right time and doing all the little dirty work.

[TedBaxter]

False. There is a difference between a certified league and a certified EVENT.

"In order for Division I coaches to attend, you would also have to be granted event certified and then they could only attend on permissible dates in July. There are significant differences in the requirements for event certification and it is a much more time-consuming process."

Yes, but it also says D1 coaches can attend and watch their own players if prospective high school and junior college prospects aren't playing and to my knowledge, none have played in Jim Ganzer's Pro-Am and that's probably why, like others, I'm seen Buzz and other state D1 coaches attend in past years. I guess it all depends how it was certified.

[muwarrior69]

Yes.....and no.       MU is playing competition a notch slightly above what they would have seen at IWB's tourney.   Agreed.     Unless somebody gets hurt, these mean nothing.    But it is summer and it is a MU message board, so it might as well be discussed.     But there are things of note.   MU hasn't gone over and sucked.   THAT would have been a catastrophe.    10 summer practices and travel and games and the team is showing enough that MU nation can choose to be optimistic.     It means nothing.    But it could have been a helluva lot worse.

This team is a far cry from the disaster we saw last year at "midnight madness". I think most of us are entitled to some cautious optimism.

[brewcity77]

Yes, but it also says D1 coaches can attend and watch their own players if prospective high school and junior college prospects aren't playing and to my knowledge, none have played in Jim Ganzer's Pro-Am and that's probably why, like others, I'm seen Buzz and other state D1 coaches attend in past years. I guess it all depends how it was certified.

Ganzer spends a ton of time on sanctioning. He has jumped through the NCAA hoops every year and in that regard knows the ins and outs very, very well. I have talked to Buzz and other MU assistants at Pro Ams before. So unless they didn't know about or didn't care about the violations, it's something a lot of people (other coaches as well, as mentioned) were doing. My guess is the MPA was sanctioned properly to allow coaches to be there.

As far as the benefit of the MPA, I do think this trip is likely better for the team, but anyone that thinks the Pro Am is valueless isn't paying attention. I watched Chris Otule develop his left pivot move in the post during the MPA and use it the subsequent season. Davante and Junior used the Pro Am to develop a solid passing repertoire so Junior knew how to find the freshman center in the post. Sure, there's plenty of crazy (Dwight Buycks routine stat insanity, Davante's coast-to-coast, Jamail Jones looking like he was going to be really good) but that doesn't mean there isn't worthwhile basketball going on out there. Marquette has benefited from the MPA in the past. I'm not sure the staff will choose that route in the future.

[keefe]

As far as the benefit of the MPA, I do think this trip is likely better for the team, but anyone that thinks the Pro Am is valueless isn't paying attention. I watched Chris Otule develop his left pivot move in the post during the MPA and use it the subsequent season. Davante and Junior used the Pro Am to develop a solid passing repertoire so Junior knew how to find the freshman center in the post. Sure, there's plenty of crazy (Dwight Buycks routine stat insanity, Davante's coast-to-coast, Jamail Jones looking like he was going to be really good) but that doesn't mean there isn't worthwhile basketball going on out there. Marquette has benefited from the MPA in the past. I'm not sure the staff will choose that route in the future.

Oh please... Maybe you should demand that Wojo see the value...Hell, I can't believe you're not on the bench between Wojo and Carrawell...

[TedBaxter]

The opinionated military guy has spoken.  Like there isn't an non-opinionated military guy.

[MUfan12]

As far as the benefit of the MPA, I do think this trip is likely better for the team, but anyone that thinks the Pro Am is valueless isn't paying attention. I watched Chris Otule develop his left pivot move in the post during the MPA and use it the subsequent season. Davante and Junior used the Pro Am to develop a solid passing repertoire so Junior knew how to find the freshman center in the post.

Those things were worked on in Kasten, and used in those games.

They didn't play in the league for the skill development. C'mon.

[brewcity77]

Those things were worked on in Kasten, and used in those games.

They didn't play in the league for the skill development. C'mon.

There was skill development in the MPA. It wasn't the same style as Kasten, but guys got to experiment with what they learned in practice against unfamiliar opponents to see what worked. Some of that translated to actual games. Absolutely no doubt in my mind of that.

[GGGG]

Oh please... Maybe you should demand that Wojo see the value...Hell, I can't believe you're not on the bench between Wojo and Carrawell...

WTF is wrong with you?

Look, I have absolutely no problem if Wojo doesn't judge that the ProAm is valuable compared to other manners of skill development and doesn't want his players participating.  But that doesn't mean that people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY ATTENDED IT can't see how it has helped some players.

And you have never attended right??

[wadesworld]

Let's not forget, Bert is a slimy cheater.  It's the only reason that SMU had interest in him and the only reason VT hired him.  So using him being at the Pro Am to prove that it wasn't against NCAA rules may be counterproductive to your argument.  Just ask Chicos.  Can't wait for his inside information to make it's way to the outside.

[BM1090]

WTF is wrong with you?

Look, I have absolutely no problem if Wojo doesn't judge that the ProAm is valuable compared to other manners of skill development and doesn't want his players participating.  But that doesn't mean that people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY ATTENDED IT can't see how it has helped some players.

And you have never attended right??

There is a certain section of this board that has a permanent "grudge" against Jim Ganzer. It's just how it is and how it always will be. Anything related to "done deal" or the pro am must be mocked forever. No need to waste your time or breath.

[keefe]

There is a certain section of this board that has a permanent "grudge" against Jim Ganzer. It's just how it is and how it always will be. Anything related to "done deal" or the pro am must be mocked forever. No need to waste your time or breath.

I have no grudge against Ganzer. I don't know him. But I do know that the Pro Am won't be seeing any MU players in it. Doesn't matter why. It just is.

No need to waste your time or breath speculating because there is nothing you can do about it. And frankly, the person making that call doesn't give a sh1t what anyone on Scoop says about that decision.

[keefe]

WTF is wrong with you?

Look, I have absolutely no problem if Wojo doesn't judge that the ProAm is valuable compared to other manners of skill development and doesn't want his players participating.  But that doesn't mean that people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY ATTENDED IT can't see how it has helped some players.

And you have never attended right??

WTF is wrong with YOU?

It doesn't matter how any of us assess the value of that tournament. Our opinion is inconsequential. And, more to the point, of exceedingly limited value.

Fact is, the current leadership of Marquette basketball is prohibiting current Marquette players from participating. That is the only opinion that matters.

To quote you - you can opine here til the cows come home or not - nobody gives a sh1t...least of all the decision makers in the Al.

If it's between the guy sitting in the fieldhouse who has the credentials, experience, legitimate insight and, most importantly, the responsibility for running the team or the guy sitting in the firehouse with neither the experience nor the insight and, most importantly, doesn't have responsibility for running the team i know who i am going to listen to.


 

[naginiF]

I have no grudge against Ganzer. I don't know him. But I do know that the Pro Am won't be seeing any MU players in it. Doesn't matter why. It just is.

No need to waste your time or breath speculating because there is nothing you can do about it. And frankly, the person making that call doesn't give a sh1t what anyone on Scoop says about that decision.

Donald Trump?
Robby Mook?
Wayne LaPierre?