Broeker taking swings at Bert

[keefe]

Whenever Broeker talks about Wojo he always throws in comments that are deliberate jabs at Bert:

"Doing it the right way"

"Bringing in high character guys"

"Laying a strong foundation"

"Building a program correctly"


I heard Bert had worn out his welcome but I think the dysfunction was even greater than any of us outsiders appreciated.

[chapman]

Maybe he's a St. Louis Cardinals fan.

[MU86NC]

If you had your eyes closed doesn't  Broeker sound just like Mac...

[naginiF]

totally agree with you but the only reason to parade out those quotes over and over is for the recruiting process with a bonus towards jabbing the Lonesome Country Cowboy (close enough?).

isn't the objective mutually beneficial as the audience is the AAU pipeline?

[GoldenWarrior11]

I really hope there are books in my lifetime about the behind the scenes stuff during Buzz Williams' tenure.  For such a wacky individual, who experienced a great deal of success here, I have to imagine there are plenty of stories that just add to his quirks.  I, personally, would love to know more about it.

[wadesworld]

I really hope there are books in my lifetime about the behind the scenes stuff during Buzz Williams' tenure.  For such a wacky individual, who experienced a great deal of success here, I have to imagine there are plenty of stories that just add to his quirks.  I, personally, would love to know more about it.

He neither liked to flush nor park his car.

[GooooMarquette]

He neither liked to flush nor park his car.

Wonder if there's a connection.  Was his car a piece of $hit?

[chapman]

We could have gone on a foreign trip any time during the past five years.  Did it cross anyone else's mind that perhaps the administration didn't trust sending the team overseas with Buzz and staff for 10 days?  Not like money was an issue, and not like Buzz to pass on the extra practice time.

[Lennys Tap]

I understand the desire (need?) for MU fans to put the best possible face on the hoops program, but until (if?) Wojo has "Buzz like" success on the court these are empty platitudes. "Doing it the right way" is great as long as it doesn't turn into an excuse for mediocrity. I'm hopeful, but it's a little early to put Wojo in the coaching hall of fame.

[wadesworld]

I understand the desire (need?) for MU fans to put the best possible face on the hoops program, but until (if?) Wojo has "Buzz like" success on the court these are empty platitudes. "Doing it the right way" is great as long as it doesn't turn into an excuse for mediocrity. I'm hopeful, but it's a little early to put Wojo in the coaching hall of fame.

He'll get there.

[Lennys Tap]

He'll get there.

Here's hoping.

[willie warrior]

Whenever Broeker talks about Wojo he always throws in comments that are deliberate jabs at Bert:

"Doing it the right way"

"Bringing in high character guys"

"Laying a strong foundation"

"Building a program correctly"


I heard Bert had worn out his welcome but I think the dysfunction was even greater than any of us outsiders appreciated.

Correction, Keefe--the phony downhome lonesome cowboy only wore out his welcome with a few. There are still some and they know who they are, that were baffled by Buzz's BS to this day and still revere his butt.

[GGGG]

We could have gone on a foreign trip any time during the past five years.  Did it cross anyone else's mind that perhaps the administration didn't trust sending the team overseas with Buzz and staff for 10 days?  Not like money was an issue, and not like Buzz to pass on the extra practice time.

Buzz may have actually preferred the focus on conditioning versus playing overseas. 

We could have gone on a foreign trip any time during the past five years.  Did it cross anyone else's mind that perhaps the administration didn't trust sending the team overseas with Buzz and staff for 10 days?  Not like money was an issue, and not like Buzz to pass on the extra practice time.

Why?  What was Buzz doing to do?

[GGGG]

I understand the desire (need?) for MU fans to put the best possible face on the hoops program, but until (if?) Wojo has "Buzz like" success on the court these are empty platitudes. "Doing it the right way" is great as long as it doesn't turn into an excuse for mediocrity. I'm hopeful, but it's a little early to put Wojo in the coaching hall of fame.

Yep.  Love what I see so far, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Some seem to be suggesting not doing it the right way, but getting that success is ok.

Sorry, not in that camp.   Just win baby is an excuse.

Both can be achieved and cutting corners, being unethical, etc, etc doesn't get swept under the rug because of wins.  That is exactly how we shouldn't be doing things.

[wadesworld]

Some seem to be suggesting not doing it the right way, but getting that success is ok.

Sorry, not in that camp.   Just win baby is an excuse.

Both can be achieved and cutting corners, being unethical, etc, etc doesn't get swept under the rug because of wins.  That is exactly how we shouldn't be doing things.

So mass drug use, underage drinking, drinking and driving, etc. are "doing things the right way," a'ina?

[The Lens]

Just watched game 3.  This right way / right players stuff needs to stop.  Either that or stop posting endless tributes / pandering to Jimmy, Jae & Dwight on social media. 

You can't have it both ways. 

[Lennys Tap]

Some seem to be suggesting not doing it the right way, but getting that success is ok.

Sorry, not in that camp.   Just win baby is an excuse.

Both can be achieved and cutting corners, being unethical, etc, etc doesn't get swept under the rug because of wins.  That is exactly how we shouldn't be doing things.

BS. Marquette has never been "Just win, baby". Ever. Your other two alma maters? Indiana (post Mike Davis) and Kansas (pretty much forever) - now there's some genuine examples of anything goes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There's a reason schools like Va. Tech and SMU who historically have never won went after a certain type of coach.  The NCAA is littered with examples like this in football and basketball over the decades.  The quick fix...Just win baby....we'll worry about the fallout down the road if anyone gets wise.

[wadesworld]

There's a reason schools like Va. Tech and SMU who historically have never won went after a certain type of coach.  The NCAA is littered with examples like this in football and basketball over the decades.  The quick fix...Just win baby....we'll worry about the fallout down the road if anyone gets wise.

So what you're saying is they couldn't give 2 craps about the coaches resume as long as they were cheaters? (Which 1 has never been found to be, by the way).

You always have some interesting takes, Chicos. That's for sure.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

So what you're saying is they couldn't give 2 craps about the coaches resume as long as they were cheaters? (Which 1 has never been found to be, by the way).

You always have some interesting takes, Chicos. That's for sure.

To be honest I'm in that sort of camp. Don't know if it's the competitive streak in me but I wouldn't give two craps if the entire MU team were fellons if they won a natty.

Also, many of those problems that some players have are way over exaggurated. One of my dad's former players actually brought a gun with him to practice one time but couldn't have been a nicer person to me and is a good friend of mine.different strokes I guess.

[keefe]

One of my dad's former players actually brought a gun with him to practice

And? So?

Gary Brell cut down the nets with a switchblade!

That, in one shining moment, captured the essence of Marquette hoops under Alfred McGuire.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

And? So?

Gary Brell cut down the nets with a switchblade!

That, in one shining moment, captured the essence of Marquette hoops under Alfred McGuire.

That's what I'm saying. I don't care how "thug" players supposidly are, so long as they win.

[g0lden3agle]

That's what I'm saying. I don't care how "thug" players supposidly are, so long as they win.

I'm having a hard time keeping track of how people define things like "just win baby win" and "doing it the right way". Are people concerned about the mere fact that Buzz was bringing in guys from less than stellar background? Or is it more like what he was allowing them to do while they were here, how he went about the recruiting process, etc?

[The Lens]

I'm having a hard time keeping track of how people define things like "just win baby win" and "doing it the right way". Are people concerned about the mere fact that Buzz was bringing in guys from less than stellar background? Or is it more like what he was allowing them to do while they were here, how he went about the recruiting process, etc?

Well that's the thing.   It's both.  Apparently some players like Jae should never have been admitted and there also are things that went on that are so unspeakable that only Chicos and his friends know what they are but they refuse to speak about them because you know, they're unspeakable.

[tower912]

While I realize it was a different era, the on and off court behavior of Al's teams put to shame anything that came after.    Brawling in South Carolina.    Dangling people out of windows at McCormick.   Cutting down the nets with a switchblade.   Hell, that iconic team photo, if taken today, would offend the hell out of some of the posters here.    Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if this site had been around when Al and one of his players got into a fight in the locker room at halftime?   


 I appreciate the fact that Crean is doing his best to establish that kind of culture at IU.   

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Whenever Broeker talks about Wojo he always throws in comments that are deliberate jabs at Bert:

"Doing it the right way"

"Bringing in high character guys"

"Laying a strong foundation"

"Building a program correctly"


I heard Bert had worn out his welcome but I think the dysfunction was even greater than any of us outsiders appreciated.

I hope that Mike is referring to a program that can be sustained in a normal course.  Buzz was always hustling to support what felt like an incredibly high amount of turnover that seemed to occur on the roster.  Sometimes it felt like watching a plate spinner -- especially that summer where Juan and Jake were out -- then back in, etc, etc.  I always felt like we absolutely needed the Trent Lockett's or JUCOs of the world because our '4 year players' never panned out.

It rubs me the wrong way that MU potentially is celebrating our guys from that era and simultaneously saying we are upgrading character.  They need to cut that out if that is the intent of their comments -- especially those that were part of the admin at that time.

[Brewtown Andy]

The only one that bothers me is "doing it the right way."

No one doing it "the right way" should ever be telling you about how "the right way" they're doing things.

The best way to play basketball is to win.  Period.

[warriorchick]

To be honest I'm in that sort of camp. Don't know if it's the competitive streak in me but I wouldn't give two craps if the entire MU team were fellons if they won a natty.

Also, many of those problems that some players have are way over exaggurated. One of my dad's former players actually brought a gun with him to practice one time but couldn't have been a nicer person to me and is a good friend of mine.different strokes I guess.

Wow.  I find that really surprising. So if one of the team members assaulted your girlfriend or torched your apartment, you'd be willing to look the other way as long as he was part of a national championship team?

I guess I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of team pride being part of a shared experience?  Do you really want to be associated with those types of players?  How could Marquette as a university tout their Christian values if their sports teams are made up of criminals?

[Dawson Rental]

I understand the desire (need?) for MU fans to put the best possible face on the hoops program, but until (if?) Wojo has "Buzz like" success on the court these are empty platitudes. "Doing it the right way" is great as long as it doesn't turn into an excuse for mediocrity. I'm hopeful, but it's a little early to put Wojo in the coaching hall of fame.

A better start so far than Al, but then Woj came in on the heels of a much more successful period for Marquette basketball.  I highly doubt that Woj will be able to duplicate Al's rate of improvement, but if he comes close, it will be an awesome ride.

[GGGG]

There's a reason schools like Va. Tech and SMU who historically have never won went after a certain type of coach.  The NCAA is littered with examples like this in football and basketball over the decades.  The quick fix...Just win baby....we'll worry about the fallout down the road if anyone gets wise.

Could it simply be because Buzz was a successful coach?  I have a hard time saying Buzz was a "just win baby" kind of coach.  Is he odd?  Yes.  Is he overly intense?  No doubt.  Have trouble communicating?  Sure.

But I don't any hint of recruiting violations (outside of the t-shirt that Monarch gave away) or academic misconduct.  The guy brings in talented players and gets them to play very hard.  Why wouldn't that resume be attractive to a school like VPI?

And you know he declined to even interview with SMU right?

[Dawson Rental]

To be honest I'm in that sort of camp. Don't know if it's the competitive streak in me but I wouldn't give two craps if the entire MU team were fellons if they won a natty.

Also, many of those problems that some players have are way over exaggurated. One of my dad's former players actually brought a gun with him to practice one time but couldn't have been a nicer person to me and is a good friend of mine.different strokes I guess.

What if the felonies were committed on campus, against students that you knew?  Against a friend's sister?

[MUfan12]

I hope that Mike is referring to a program that can be sustained in a normal course.  Buzz was always hustling to support what felt like an incredibly high amount of turnover that seemed to occur on the roster.  Sometimes it felt like watching a plate spinner -- especially that summer where Juan and Jake were out -- then back in, etc, etc.  I always felt like we absolutely needed the Trent Lockett's or JUCOs of the world because our '4 year players' never panned out.

It rubs me the wrong way that MU potentially is celebrating our guys from that era and simultaneously saying we are upgrading character.  They need to cut that out if that is the intent of their comments -- especially those that were part of the admin at that time.

Spot on, Frenns.

The JUCO guys were pretty good for the most part (though DJO was a handful at times), and they're some of MU's best ambassadors in the NBA. Can't prop them up as marketing for the program, and then criticize the fact that they were brought in.

[GGGG]

I believe that every Juco brought in to Marquette, and didn't transfer, also graduated with the exception of Jae.

[MUfan12]

I believe that every Juco brought in to Marquette, and didn't transfer, also graduated with the exception of Jae.

If I remember correctly, Buycks was back in classes to finish, but got a training camp invite and had to leave. He's close, though.

[GGGG]

If I remember correctly, Buycks was back in classes to finish, but got a training camp invite and had to leave. He's close, though.

I thought he had graduated, but I may have misremembered.  Still there is nothing to be ashamed about regarding their academic performance. 

[keefe]

While I realize it was a different era, the on and off court behavior of Al's teams put to shame anything that came after.    Brawling in South Carolina.    Dangling people out of windows at McCormick.   Cutting down the nets with a switchblade.   Hell, that iconic team photo, if taken today, would offend the hell out of some of the posters here.    Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if this site had been around when Al and one of his players got into a fight in the locker room at halftime?   


 I appreciate the fact that Crean is doing his best to establish that kind of culture at IU.

Bada Bing!

Nicely executed

[keefe]

How could Marquette as a university tout their Christian values if their sports teams are made up of criminals?

[Galway Eagle]

To be honest I'm in that sort of camp. Don't know if it's the competitive streak in me but I wouldn't give two craps if the entire MU team were fellons if they won a natty.

Maybe if you were around in 2010-11 during the sexual assault stuff you might feel differently.  I don't really care how thug players are (I didn't care about the bar fight, or vander punching the kid at Qdoba) but you need balance and without it the kind of thug mentality can run rampant and out of control. 

[Lennys Tap]

While I realize it was a different era, the on and off court behavior of Al's teams put to shame anything that came after.    Brawling in South Carolina.    Dangling people out of windows at McCormick.   Cutting down the nets with a switchblade.   Hell, that iconic team photo, if taken today, would offend the hell out of some of the posters here.    Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if this site had been around when Al and one of his players got into a fight in the locker room at halftime?   


 I appreciate the fact that Crean is doing his best to establish that kind of culture at IU.

You're dead on, Tower. Those guys who played for Al were good people (all of the ones I knew, anyway) but they weren't choirboys. Ultra competitive, give no quarter, "just win"guys - many from bad schools on the wrong side of the tracks. Chico would have hated Al, his players and everything they stood for.

[keefe]

Chico would have hated Al, his players and everything they stood for.

Weren't a lot of Al's players, uh, you know, uh, Negroes?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

To be fair, rape and sexual assult are the exception to the rule. (Already have my Kane jersey sitting next to a garbage can just in case) But people here seem to only want players who only have the cleanest of backgrounds and home life, and theres nothing wrong with that but I don't have a problem with recruiting JUCOs that don't graduate or people who get into fights on the street or bring their gun to practice.

[jsglow]

I think many of you are reading too much into Mike's comments.  From all that I've heard while it's true that Buzz wore out his welcome in numerous ways and that academic standards were tightened following Jae's admission in a way that Buzz didn't support, to paint the program with some broad brush as dysfunctional during his tenure isn't and wasn't true.  Sure many in senior administration were happy when he left.  But that's a far cry from claiming the program was somehow totally out of control and in 'Win Only' mode.

Is Wojo seemingly more aligned with Mike and Bill than Buzz was with Fr. Pliarz and especially Larry? Absolutely.  So everyone is basically pulling in the same direction now and that's to be applauded.  I personally believe that's what Mike was referring to.   

[keefe]

I think many of you are reading too much into Mike's comments.  From all that I've heard while it's true that Buzz wore out his welcome in numerous ways and that academic standards were tightened following Jae's admission in a way that Buzz didn't support, to paint the program with some broad brush as dysfunctional during his tenure isn't and wasn't true.  Sure many in senior administration were happy when he left.  But that's a far cry from claiming the program was somehow totally out of control and in 'Win Only' mode.

Is Wojo seemingly more aligned with Mike and Bill than Buzz was with Fr. Pliarz and especially Larry? Absolutely.  So everyone is basically pulling in the same direction now and that's to be applauded.  I personally believe that's what Mike was referring to.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xZKuzwPOefs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xZKuzwPOefs</a>

[jsglow]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xZKuzwPOefs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xZKuzwPOefs</a>

Saw him at Summerfest 35 years ago.  You remember Summerfest, yes?

[VegasWarrior77]

I saw Gary Wright at the Summerfest Ampitheater with Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton many years ago...

[Herman Cain]

Buzz had tremendous accomplishments during his tenure. Obviously he rubbed many the wrong way. Wojo still in the honeymoon phase .  Hopefully he can develop a winning program without having to push the envelope of propriety.

[wadesworld]

While I realize it was a different era, the on and off court behavior of Al's teams put to shame anything that came after.    Brawling in South Carolina.    Dangling people out of windows at McCormick.   Cutting down the nets with a switchblade.   Hell, that iconic team photo, if taken today, would offend the hell out of some of the posters here.    Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if this site had been around when Al and one of his players got into a fight in the locker room at halftime?   


I appreciate the fact that Crean is doing his best to establish that kind of culture at IU.

The kicker was beyond outstanding.  Very, very well done.

[tower912]

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

The only one that bothers me is "doing it the right way."

No one doing it "the right way" should ever be telling you about how "the right way" they're doing things.

The best way to play basketball is to win.  Period.

Many teams win.  Some do it in ways that are ethically grounded.  No one is going to be perfect, and this is where people get bent and can't wait to call out some coach or team when they stub their toe.  That being said, there are certain programs that win and win a lot that rarely get into those situations.  There are others that win a lot, and the ethical stench of their coach or the program itself cannot be washed out, regardless of how many tomato juice baths one takes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And people complain about others for injecting a certain coach into threads.  LOL

[wadesworld]

And people complain about others for injecting a certain coach into threads.  LOL

Forever the victim, Chicos.  Forever the victim.

[The Equalizer]

We could have gone on a foreign trip any time during the past five years.  Did it cross anyone else's mind that perhaps the administration didn't trust sending the team overseas with Buzz and staff for 10 days?  Not like money was an issue, and not like Buzz to pass on the extra practice time.

I'm not a Buzz fan, but I don't think this is a fair criticism.

We had a trip to Canada early in Buzz's tenure which counted as a foreign trip.  With the one trip in four years, I think the first year we would have been eligible again would have been Wojo's first season. 

It makes complete sense to wait a year to schedule the next trip in order to give him a chance to use it for recruiting.

[Dawson Rental]

To be fair, rape and sexual assult are the exception to the rule. (Already have my Kane jersey sitting next to a garbage can just in case) But people here seem to only want players who only have the cleanest of backgrounds and home life, and theres nothing wrong with that but I don't have a problem with recruiting JUCOs that don't graduate or people who get into fights on the street or bring their gun to practice.

I get that that what you said is more like an occasional non-graduate would be acceptable, but would you be willing to accept a postseason ban from the NCAA due to an insufficient progress toward degree score, as a trade off for a national championship the year before? 

[Nukem2]

I'm not a Buzz fan, but I don't think this is a fair criticism.

We had a trip to Canada early in Buzz's tenure which counted as a foreign trip.  With the one trip in four years, I think the first year we would have been eligible again would have been Wojo's first season. 

It makes complete sense to wait a year to schedule the next trip in order to give him a chance to use it for recruiting.

That Canada trip was in TC's last season in August, 2007.  There were a couple of opportunities in Buzz's era for a foreign trip.

[The Equalizer]

That Canada trip was in TC's last season in August, 2007.  There were a couple of opportunities in Buzz's era for a foreign trip.

I thought the trip was when McMorrow was in his transfer year, but I may be confusing the trip with his freshman season in Canada.

I stand corrected--it does make sense that the school may have put the restrictions on Buzz-especially when the first year the team coached by him would have been eligible was 11-12.

In any event, Liam has his own Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_McMorrow
Didn't know he was playing for the Clipper summer league team.

[keefe]

Saw him at Summerfest 35 years ago.  You remember Summerfest, yes?

Hell, yes. If Milwaukee ever did anything right it was Summerfest. Mayor Maier got that one right.

What's crazy is that I was at that same concert!