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Author Topic: Recruiting as of 3/15/24  (Read 8341054 times)

Dawson Rental

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2625 on: July 28, 2016, 10:44:41 AM »
Have you ever thought that, as he gains experience, Wojo will be "an up and coming experienced head coach"? The list of coaches who had to grow into their first major job after early struggles is long -- and filled with some of the greatest names in the history of the sport.

Also, are you actually saying that Wojo -- who was known for his intensity as a Duke player and who went on to be K's lead assistant -- does not understand how important it is to actually win?

Come on, MF, we know you don't like Wojo, but you can do better than this.

Are you sure about that?
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Pakuni

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2626 on: July 28, 2016, 10:45:19 AM »
Cal's only rival may be UNC in terms of disconnect between academic caliber of school and athlete academics.  Maybe UT.

You can toss Michigan and UCLA into that mix.

jsglow

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2627 on: July 28, 2016, 10:57:39 AM »
Hold on. You peg Wojo as a good recruiter/weak game coach. Which I suppose is fair so far, even though one could argue that most of the in-game adjustments Wojo would try to employ over the last 2 years would be severely hampered by 1. overall talent level on the 14/15 roster and 2. extreme youth of the 15/16 roster. The jury is still out on his in-game abilities. And his recruiting so far has been nothing short of outstanding. His second class hasn't even seen the damn court yet, so again, the jury is out. But how could he possibly top what he's done so far? And the correct answer is not Kostas. 

My bigger problem is that you yearn for a return of the Crean/Buzz days in juxtaposition of your position that Wojo is a good recruiter and a weak in-game coach. No one ever accused Crean/Buzz of being gurus when it came to Xs and Os. In fact, that was always a consistent complaint from the fan base. And a valid one. Crean's best teams won because of either Wade/Jackson or the 3 Amigos. Not anything he drew up on the clipboard. Same can be said of Buzz (Butler, Crowder, Vander). You could argue that they were more fiery and better motivators than Wojo who were great at psycho-babble crap that would amp their players up and I would totally accept that.

The fact that you're already clamoring for a new coach clearly explains your total lack of perspective. Also - the last thing we need is someone like Steve Masiello. Someone who lies on his resume and gets fired for it most certainly has some ethical issues. Who is dumb enough to try to pull a stunt like that? Where there's smoke there's fire - if Masiello is willing to do that, who knows what other kind of crap he's pulling at Manhattan. By the way, you may be interested in knowing that Steve Masiello's Manhattan squad finished 13-18 last year in his 5th year as coach. Yeah - let's go get someone like him!

Sorry glow - I know this thread needs to stay on topic. I will not be replying. Thanks to everyone who is providing the great recruiting updates - even you MU Fan in NY.

Thanks. NP.  And let's all head back into the saloon and get a beer.

brewcity77

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2628 on: July 28, 2016, 11:31:55 AM »
But how could he possibly top what he's done so far? And the correct answer is not Kostas.

I'd say that if he landed two 5-star recruits in 2018 (Hauser and Herro) it would top what he's done so far. Getting both of them would be a bigger recruiting win than Henry. That said, I don't expect it. I think we have a decent shot to land one, but would be surprised if we landed both.

However I agree with your general belief that his recruiting has been nothing short of outstanding. Wojo has been the best recruiter we've seen as a head coach here in my lifetime. We'll see in the next 2-3 years how well that works in terms of getting players to gel and putting a winning product on the floor, but as far as actually getting interest from highly-regarded recruits, getting them on campus, and getting them committed, he's better than anyone since Al, at least in a 3 year sample size.
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MU82

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2629 on: July 28, 2016, 11:50:39 AM »

The fact that you're already clamoring for a new coach clearly explains your total lack of perspective. Also - the last thing we need is someone like Steve Masiello. Someone who lies on his resume and gets fired for it most certainly has some ethical issues. Who is dumb enough to try to pull a stunt like that? Where there's smoke there's fire - if Masiello is willing to do that, who knows what other kind of crap he's pulling at Manhattan. By the way, you may be interested in knowing that Steve Masiello's Manhattan squad finished 13-18 last year in his 5th year as coach. Yeah - let's go get someone like him!


Wow, what an outstanding post.

Can you imagine the tone here if any MU coach were to go 13-18 in his 5th season?

And yet MF is presenting this lying, small-time loser as the standard Marquette should be seeking? Oy.

Wojo is a  reat recruiter and a great representative of the program who, like most new head coaches, will become better and better in games as he gets experience. I don't know what joy the haters get from trashing the guy, I really don't.

And I'm not talking about those who merely are saying that Wojo will need to win to avoid going on the hot seat. That eventually will be true; that's life in all sports. I tend to agree with those who don't think the seat is even remotely warm now and that he is 2-3 years away from lukewarmness. But I acknowledge that's all a matter of opinion. I'm talking about the true haters who already have decided based on whatever that Wojo is a bust. 

I'm betting that Wojo will land us another couple of the great recruits that have been discussed here in the last couple of pages, before the thread got hijacked by the clueless minority.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2630 on: July 28, 2016, 12:03:35 PM »
I'm also confused where the proof is for the Wojo is a bad in game coach argument. I saw some confusing moments but I also saw some great plays drawn up. The play to win the Georgetown game was genius. As someone else said, Wojo could be a great in game coach but the players still need to execute. His first year we had a bad team. His second year we had the 7th youngest team in D1. Jury is still out.
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The Lens

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2631 on: July 28, 2016, 12:49:20 PM »
I think Wojo is a solid recruiter, on par with TC & Buzz.  I do not see why anyone would call him Outstanding. 

He's brought in a bunch of Top 100s (that's our new normal post 2000) and Henry.  I think we all can say Henry is a special circumstance given his brother + being a "local" kid.  He has swung and missed on a number of transformational grad transfers who would have changed our expectations of Seasons 2 & 3.  He seems to have struck gold with Howard but it's super early.

His 1st 2017 Commit is 3 star PF (Which I am fine with as you need to build depth).

I do not see anything extrordinary here, but rather a very solid job.  If he starts bringing in multiple Top 40s a year, then the Outstanding tag fits.
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bilsu

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2632 on: July 28, 2016, 01:10:18 PM »
I'm also confused where the proof is for the Wojo is a bad in game coach argument. I saw some confusing moments but I also saw some great plays drawn up. The play to win the Georgetown game was genius. As someone else said, Wojo could be a great in game coach but the players still need to execute. His first year we had a bad team. His second year we had the 7th youngest team in D1. Jury is still out.
I do not think we can say how good of a game coach Wojo is until he has an experience team. Experience players generally can be relied upon by the coach to make good decisions. Inexperience players generally are a different story. It does not make Wojo look like a good coach, if the inexperienced players cannot do what the coach wants. I think we can better judge Wojo as the team becomes more seasoned. Two plays last year stand out to me and they both involve Carter. Carter driving to the basket and losing the ball out of bounds on the final play in our opening loss to Belmont. I think it was the Georgetown game, where Carter went off script and threw a long pass to Fischer, which ended up being the deciding play in a win. In both cases the same coach and the same key player. The big difference was that Carter was not running around like a chicken with his head cutoff. I saw a lot of development in Carter as the season went on. Coaches develop players and players learn to fit into the coaches game plan. A team starting three freshmen is not likely to make the coach look like he knows what he is doing.

dgies9156

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2633 on: July 28, 2016, 01:30:59 PM »
I had a hard time accepting anything less than Al's level of success. What was more impressive than the wins or losses in that era was the fear we struck into the hearts of the our opponents.   Unfortunately, The Crean/Buzz era  made me think the glory days were within reach again. Not only were we winning but we were getting that swagger back.

All right, at the risk of aggravating Warrior nation, I absolutely agree with this part of MUNY's post. Sure it's harder today with more than 300 schools playing Division 1 basketball. Sure its harder when we're in a conference with perhaps no more than four of 14 games that are "sure wins." And, sure it's harder when your biggest in-state rival has outperformed you in recent years.

But now, like then, Warriors don't shink at a challenge. That's not the Marquette way and certainly not what was I was taught when I was there.

I've said elsewhere that if Wojo doesn't make the tournament and revenue declines, he'll face a little heat. A little bit. But, his recruiting is first-rate. Like Buzz to Vander, it's now up to Wojo to take the raw material and make them great.

We can and we will have Al's level of success again. I'm disappointed in the last three years and was particularly upset at the way the Hillbilly jilted us. But I would caution that the Al era was not all Seashells and Balloons. It took time. For example:

   1) We lost the 1969 regional final because one of our guys missed the front end of a two-shot foul that would have put us in the Final Four.
   2) We picked the regional semi-final in 1971 to have our worst game of the season.
   3) We lost one of our best players ever with six games to go in the 1972 season and promptly lost in the regional semi-final.
   4) We choked against Indiana in the 1973 regional.
   5) We lost the NCAA Championship in 1974 after two technical fouls turned a close game against us.
   6) We lost in the second round of the 1975 NCAA Midwest regional (again).
   7) We lost in the regional final in 1976 to undefeated Indiana.

We often think 1977 but fail to realize  realize how painful getting there was, at times. We'll get Top 10 again with Wojo.

jsglow

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2634 on: July 28, 2016, 01:32:51 PM »
I think Wojo is a solid recruiter, on par with TC & Buzz.  I do not see why anyone would call him Outstanding. 

He's brought in a bunch of Top 100s (that's our new normal post 2000) and Henry.  I think we all can say Henry is a special circumstance given his brother + being a "local" kid.  He has swung and missed on a number of transformational grad transfers who would have changed our expectations of Seasons 2 & 3.  He seems to have struck gold with Howard but it's super early.

His 1st 2017 Commit is 3 star PF (Which I am fine with as you need to build depth).

I do not see anything extrordinary here, but rather a very solid job.  If he starts bringing in multiple Top 40s a year, then the Outstanding tag fits.

I'm going to disagree here.  Couple points:

- 2 back to back Top 20 classes
- true national recruiting effort of HS prospects
- landed a solid (if not spectacular) PG last year at the last moment after the NN situation left us in a heap of trouble
- Hanni is a budding star and was solidly first team all Frosh last year
- multiple recruits who played on the national team(s) and won Gold recruiting more currently.

jsglow

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2635 on: July 28, 2016, 01:33:49 PM »
All right, at the risk of aggravating Warrior nation, I absolutely agree with this part of MUNY's post. Sure it's harder today with more than 300 schools playing Division 1 basketball. Sure its harder when we're in a conference with perhaps no more than four of 14 games that are "sure wins." And, sure it's harder when your biggest in-state rival has outperformed you in recent years.

But now, like then, Warriors don't shink at a challenge. That's not the Marquette way and certainly not what was I was taught when I was there.

I've said elsewhere that if Wojo doesn't make the tournament and revenue declines, he'll face a little heat. A little bit. But, his recruiting is first-rate. Like Buzz to Vander, it's now up to Wojo to take the raw material and make them great.

We can and we will have Al's level of success again. I'm disappointed in the last three years and was particularly upset at the way the Hillbilly jilted us. But I would caution that the Al era was not all Seashells and Balloons. It took time. For example:

   1) We lost the 1969 regional final because one of our guys missed the front end of a two-shot foul that would have put us in the Final Four.
   2) We picked the regional semi-final in 1971 to have our worst game of the season.
   3) We lost one of our best players ever with six games to go in the 1972 season and promptly lost in the regional semi-final.
   4) We choked against Indiana in the 1973 regional.
   5) We lost the NCAA Championship in 1974 after two technical fouls turned a close game against us.
   6) We lost in the second round of the 1975 NCAA Midwest regional (again).
   7) We lost in the regional final in 1976 to undefeated Indiana.

We often think 1977 but fail to realize  realize how painful getting there was, at times. We'll get Top 10 again with Wojo.

dg, start your own thread.  We're done here.  Thanks.

bilsu

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2636 on: July 28, 2016, 02:00:47 PM »
I'm going to disagree here.  Couple points:

- 2 back to back Top 20 classes
- true national recruiting effort of HS prospects
- landed a solid (if not spectacular) PG last year at the last moment after the NN situation left us in a heap of trouble
- Hanni is a budding star and was solidly first team all Frosh last year
- multiple recruits who played on the national team(s) and won Gold recruiting more currently.
This year's class is only top 20, if you include Bailey.
Last year's class is only top 20, if you include Henry.
Now that does not diminish his recruiting, but does likely lead to worse results than you would expect by adding two top 20 classes together.

wadesworld

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2637 on: July 28, 2016, 02:06:38 PM »
This year's class is only top 20, if you include Bailey.
Last year's class is only top 20, if you include Henry.
Now that does not diminish his recruiting, but does likely lead to worse results than you would expect by adding two top 20 classes together.

So you want to exclude Bailey (fair, he's not coming until 2018)...but forget that Reinhardt, who will be a bigger contributor to this team than Bailey would be if he were coming in this year, is part of this class.

And you want to exclude Henry for God knows what reason (I suppose we should just disregard Duke and Kentucky every single year since all their top recruits are gone after a year?  Seems odd but whatever)...but forget that Rowsey is part of this class.
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Pakuni

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2638 on: July 28, 2016, 02:08:11 PM »
This year's class is only top 20, if you include Bailey.
Last year's class is only top 20, if you include Henry.
Now that does not diminish his recruiting, but does likely lead to worse results than you would expect by adding two top 20 classes together.

Why would you not include Bailey and Henry?
That's a bit like saying Kentucky has only won a National Championship, if you include 1948, 1949, 1951, 1958, 1978, 1996, 1998 and 2012.

MU_Beav

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2639 on: July 28, 2016, 02:12:58 PM »
FWIW, another 'expert' on 24/7 picks Terrence Lewis to MU.

Pakuni

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2640 on: July 28, 2016, 02:14:46 PM »
FWIW, another 'expert' on 24/7 picks Terrence Lewis to MU.

"That would help MU's recruiting class, but only if you include him."
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bilsu

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2641 on: July 28, 2016, 02:35:43 PM »
"That would help MU's recruiting class, but only if you include him."
 - bilsu
I said those two classes included players that will not be here this year, which means we should not expect the same results as another team that has two back to back top 20 recruiting classes. Basically, I said it did not diminish his recruiting, just what should be the expected results.

Pakuni

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2642 on: July 28, 2016, 02:42:36 PM »
I said those two classes included players that will not be here this year, which means we should not expect the same results as another team that has two back to back top 20 recruiting classes. Basically, I said it did not diminish his recruiting, just what should be the expected results.

Because Marquette was the only top 20 class with a one-and-done, but only if you don't include Kentucky, Duke, LSU, Syracuse, Kansas, Washington, Florida State, UNLV and Cal.
Your point is not a good one.

bilsu

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2643 on: July 28, 2016, 03:17:34 PM »
Because Marquette was the only top 20 class with a one-and-done, but only if you don't include Kentucky, Duke, LSU, Syracuse, Kansas, Washington, Florida State, UNLV and Cal.
Your point is not a good one.
The whole class ranking is subjective, since it does not include every player. Last year's class includes Rowsey and this year's class includes Reinhardt, but they do not figure in the rankings. The 2018 class or whatever year Bailey actually shows up will not include him. It also does not recognize which player has peaked or which player is still improving. My point is a good one, if you are going to rank the coach based on recruiting. After all recruiting is team building. The current players on the team are what shows how good a coach is at (recruiting) building a team. Wojo is still in the building process, so it is too early to give him a final grade.

MU82

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2644 on: July 28, 2016, 03:17:39 PM »
This year's class is only top 20, if you include Bailey.
Last year's class is only top 20, if you include Henry.


Reminds me of when the Vikings would lose to the Lions with Barry Sanders running for 200 yards and Vikings apologists would say, "Yeah, but take away his 66-yard and 72-yard runs, and our defense wasn't that bad."

OK ... but you can't take away those runs! They counted! They were WHY your defense was that bad!!!!

Just as Bailey and Henry count. And, as wades adroitly pointed out, Reinhardt and Rowsey count, too!
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2645 on: July 28, 2016, 03:36:44 PM »
I said every season. Including the elite 8 season, final four season, etc.

And you would be wrong.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2646 on: July 28, 2016, 03:44:16 PM »
I'd say that if he landed two 5-star recruits in 2018 (Hauser and Herro) it would top what he's done so far. Getting both of them would be a bigger recruiting win than Henry. That said, I don't expect it. I think we have a decent shot to land one, but would be surprised if we landed both.

However I agree with your general belief that his recruiting has been nothing short of outstanding. Wojo has been the best recruiter we've seen as a head coach here in my lifetime. We'll see in the next 2-3 years how well that works in terms of getting players to gel and putting a winning product on the floor, but as far as actually getting interest from highly-regarded recruits, getting them on campus, and getting them committed, he's better than anyone since Al, at least in a 3 year sample size.

I'm confused.  Are you saying Wojo is better at recruiting than Al, or the best since Al.  Maybe Al's time was before you were born?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:54:09 PM by Crean to Ann Arbor »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2647 on: July 28, 2016, 03:58:12 PM »
I think Wojo is a solid recruiter, on par with TC & Buzz.  I do not see why anyone would call him Outstanding. 

He's brought in a bunch of Top 100s (that's our new normal post 2000) and Henry.  I think we all can say Henry is a special circumstance given his brother + being a "local" kid.  He has swung and missed on a number of transformational grad transfers who would have changed our expectations of Seasons 2 & 3.  He seems to have struck gold with Howard but it's super early.

His 1st 2017 Commit is 3 star PF (Which I am fine with as you need to build depth).

I do not see anything extrordinary here, but rather a very solid job.  If he starts bringing in multiple Top 40s a year, then the Outstanding tag fits.

In his first two full years recruiting, he had the best class in the Big East per 247sports

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/TeamRankings?Conference=Big-East

and the second best class in the Big East per 247sports

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/TeamRankings?Conference=Big-East

And he's recruited the highest drafted player since Dwyane Wade in 2003.

Call me an easy grader, but I'm going with outstanding.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 04:04:19 PM by Crean to Ann Arbor »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

brewcity77

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2648 on: July 28, 2016, 04:26:38 PM »
I'm confused.  Are you saying Wojo is better at recruiting than Al, or the best since Al.  Maybe Al's time was before you were born?

That 77 refers to the year I was born.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Recruiting as of 7/15/16
« Reply #2649 on: July 28, 2016, 06:29:14 PM »
And you would be wrong.

Go back and look. Hell, people are still disappointed with Tom Crean for how badly he was beaten in the Final Four.
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