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Author Topic: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers  (Read 18094 times)

tower912

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2015, 03:50:16 PM »
Get off my lawn, you darn kids.     It is the world we live in.   Some tried to portray it as a Crean problem, some tried to portray it as a Buzz problem.   It is a by-product of the world we live in.   I am not a particular fan of it, but I have come to accept it. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2015, 09:53:07 AM »
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/07/29/college-basketball-coaching-movement-transfer-study

Rate of coaches changing schools is generally higher than the transfer rate. These guys need to suck it up and tough it out and nose to the grindstone and elbow grease.

And coaches changing schools certainly provides impetus to many student-athlete transfers, greatly increasing that "problem". 
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2015, 10:21:40 AM »
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/07/29/college-basketball-coaching-movement-transfer-study

Rate of coaches changing schools is generally higher than the transfer rate. These guys need to suck it up and tough it out and nose to the grindstone and elbow grease.

It says coaching turnover, how many of those coaches were fired and thus turned over, vs how many chose to move to a different opportunity?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2015, 10:30:23 AM »

Ironic because your entire argument in this thread is intangible.  You are unable to specifically address why this is a problem, but completely fall back on the "THESE DAMN KIDS!!!"type of subjective observations.

It's a problem because we have decided to put forth kids that don't understand the concept of perseverance. We don't teach kids to fight through adversity. 

It's cultural.   "The culture is being created before they get to college. If they're not playing as much as they want in high school, they transfer to a different high school. If they're not playing as much as they want in AAU, they go to a different AAU team. It's a learned behavior." - Dwayne Stephens



ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2015, 10:31:57 AM »
One year out of...an overall 40 year working career, right?  So 2.5% of an average person's career working full time.  Compared to 1 year out of a 4 year college basketball career.  Or 25% of a college basketball player's career.  For an equivalent comparison to getting a new job after just 1 (or less) years, you'd have to look at how many college basketball players transfer after 1.2 (or less) months at their school.  Or you could look at how many people have changed jobs in the first 25% of their working career.  So on average roughly 10 years.  My guess is you probably changed jobs within the first 10 years out of college.

Hey, I wasn't the one that made the analogy, I answered the analogy....which was a poor analogy to begin with.  Take it up with him.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2015, 10:40:59 AM »
Didn't you just jump from Directv while waiting to get the heck out of Cali?  ;)

"jump"....nope

15 years there, through ups and downs....then went to a different company that worked with them in anticipation of the merger.  It's complicated because of the merger stuff that was going on, but by moving over it allowed progress work that would not get done if stayed because of how long transactions take to complete. 

Let's just say in the end all the pieces of the puzzle will be put back together. 

No jumping at all, call it doing much of the same work with a different business card that will ultimately become the same business card again.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2015, 08:33:09 PM »
how about the transfer who was "promised" this and that, then he either doesn't perform up to the coaches standards, or was snow-jobbed into coming?

homesick

i can't imagine many transfer because of their majors
don't...don't don't don't don't

keefe

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2015, 08:44:12 PM »
Middle-aged WHITE people today are entitled, soft and always looking for the easy way out.

Used to be the white man could get a fair shake!


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Dawson Rental

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2015, 10:37:07 PM »
Used to be the white man could get a fair shake!

Any man still can.  it just takes finding the right woman.




"She was a fast machine she kept her motor clean
She was the best damn woman that I ever seen
She had the sightless eyes telling me no lies
Knocking me out with those American thighs
Taking more than her share
Had me fighting for air
She told me to come but I was already there
Cause the walls start shaking
The earth was quaking
My mind was aching
And we were making it
And you shook me all night long
Yeah you shook me all night long"
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 10:40:46 PM by LittleWade »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

MU82

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2015, 11:12:04 PM »
I am for capitalism in the college setting.

Coaches should be able to leave for greener pastures (or whatever reason) whenever they want. Student-athletes should be able to transfer whenever they want without having to sit out any time. Cheerleaders should be able to transfer. Professors should be able to change schools whenever they want. Administrators should be able to leave at their whim. Engineering majors should be able to transfer. Etc, etc, etc.

And yet, on that list I just gave (including the etceteras), only the student-athletes aren't allowed to ply their trade immediately at their new destinations.

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2015, 01:18:22 PM »
I am for capitalism in the college setting.

Coaches should be able to leave for greener pastures (or whatever reason) whenever they want. Student-athletes should be able to transfer whenever they want without having to sit out any time. Cheerleaders should be able to transfer. Professors should be able to change schools whenever they want. Administrators should be able to leave at their whim. Engineering majors should be able to transfer. Etc, etc, etc.

And yet, on that list I just gave (including the etceteras), only the student-athletes aren't allowed to ply their trade immediately at their new destinations.

Not true.  The coaches aren't either, unless they buy their way out.

So, if we want to treat an apples to apples comparison, I'm all for it.  You pay your way out of your scholarship to transfer....just like the coach does.  A better way to put it, there is a penalty for the coach to leave, a financial consideration.  Apply that to players, since we're making this comparison.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2015, 01:28:20 PM »
how about the transfer who was "promised" this and that, then he either doesn't perform up to the coaches standards, or was snow-jobbed into coming?

homesick

i can't imagine many transfer because of their majors

That part isn't contemplated by the "free agent" folks here.  It's only the upside, never the downside. 

I would propose doing this just like the US Military academies.  My son has an interest, so we're going through the details.  Essentially, the US Gov't will pay for you to attend their school as long as you agree to a commitment after your education is complete.  IF, you leave during after your Sophomore year, you must pay back the US gov't.  Afterall, they have invested heavily into you.

MU or any other athletic program is investing heavily into that student athlete in return that you stay and matriculate.  If you decide to leave, then MU's investment should be reimbursed.  Now, I don't think it should be fully reimbursed because MU probably gained some benefit depending on the player (more for the star than the guy that never gets off the bench).


MU82

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2015, 02:42:22 PM »
Not true.  The coaches aren't either, unless they buy their way out.

So, if we want to treat an apples to apples comparison, I'm all for it.  You pay your way out of your scholarship to transfer....just like the coach does.  A better way to put it, there is a penalty for the coach to leave, a financial consideration.  Apply that to players, since we're making this comparison.

Well, first you'd have to give the players guaranteed contracts to even start to make an apples-for-apples comparison.

It really only would be apples-for-apples if the coach had to sit out a year.

Heck, even the vast majority of coaches who bring down NCAA sanctions on one school don't have to sit out a year before moving right along to another institution.

But that's OK. Keep defending the Overdog.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

naginiF

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2015, 02:49:05 PM »
Not true.  The coaches aren't either, unless they buy their way out.

So, if we want to treat an apples to apples comparison, I'm all for it.  You pay your way out of your scholarship to transfer....just like the coach does.  A better way to put it, there is a penalty for the coach to leave, a financial consideration.  Apply that to players, since we're making this comparison.
Plus, and i'm far from an expert, but a professor with tenure has certain commitments they've made to the University/department which have to hinder 'free' movement.

**not defending the current transfer rules**

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2015, 04:28:45 PM »
Well, first you'd have to give the players guaranteed contracts to even start to make an apples-for-apples comparison.

It really only would be apples-for-apples if the coach had to sit out a year.

Heck, even the vast majority of coaches who bring down NCAA sanctions on one school don't have to sit out a year before moving right along to another institution.

But that's OK. Keep defending the Overdog.

You mean guaranteed 4 year rides....like many schools and conferences are doing right now?

 ;D

« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 04:33:03 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

wadesworld

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2015, 06:27:06 PM »
You mean guaranteed 4 year rides....like many schools and conferences are doing right now?

 ;D



How many athletes have signed 4 year scholarships in men's NCAA D1 basketball?
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2015, 06:39:41 PM »
How many athletes have signed 4 year scholarships in men's NCAA D1 basketball?

I have no idea the number. 

It is required now at Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, SEC and ACC schools.   Some schools within those conferences started doing this a number of years ago, but now the entire conferences are.  MU, by the way, voted NOT to do this at NCAA meetings a few years ago.  Perhaps we have changed our tune or will in the future.

Those scholarships cannot be repealed or reduced as long as the student athlete remains in good standing (i.e. isn't getting arrested, flunking out of school, etc)

wadesworld

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2015, 07:21:51 PM »
I have no idea the number. 

It is required now at Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, SEC and ACC schools.   Some schools within those conferences started doing this a number of years ago, but now the entire conferences are.  MU, by the way, voted NOT to do this at NCAA meetings a few years ago.  Perhaps we have changed our tune or will in the future.

Those scholarships cannot be repealed or reduced as long as the student athlete remains in good standing (i.e. isn't getting arrested, flunking out of school, etc)

Huh?  B1G, Pac 12, Big 12, SEC, and ACC schools are required to give 4 year, not 1 year, athletic scholarships to men's basketball players?  I don't think so.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2015, 06:17:21 AM »
I have no idea the number. 

It is required now at Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, SEC and ACC schools.   Some schools within those conferences started doing this a number of years ago, but now the entire conferences are.  MU, by the way, voted NOT to do this at NCAA meetings a few years ago.  Perhaps we have changed our tune or will in the future.

Those scholarships cannot be repealed or reduced as long as the student athlete remains in good standing (i.e. isn't getting arrested, flunking out of school, etc)

As of 2013, the number was less than 10% of ALL athletes. Of those that had it, next to none were college basketball players.

If players are given a multi-year scholarship and leave before it is over, I think just about everyone agrees they should have to sit. The argument is for those who only have 1 year scholarships or have completed their two or three year scholarship. They are expired contracts, the athletes shouldn't be punished for searching elsewhere.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2015, 06:20:00 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/sports/pac-12-guarantees-4-year-scholarships.html?_r=0

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/big-ten/2014/10/08/big-ten-guarantee-year-scholarships-sports/16927531/

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11964788/big-12-cover-full-cost-student-athlete-attendance-offer-multiyear-scholarships

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2015-01-17/power-5-ncaa-schools-vote-new-scholarship-concussion-proposals-autonomy

You're smarter than this. The Power 5 guaranteed that every school would would offer multiyear scholarships in every sport. They didn't guarentee that every student athlete would get one. Know how many basketball players are getting offered multiyear scholarships? Next to zero. Coaches don't want to take the risk of losing a scholarship if a player doesn't work out.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 06:21:36 AM by TAMU Eagle »
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Dawson Rental

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2015, 07:46:08 AM »
I have no idea the number. 

It is required now at Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, SEC and ACC schools.   Some schools within those conferences started doing this a number of years ago, but now the entire conferences are.  MU, by the way, voted NOT to do this at NCAA meetings a few years ago.  Perhaps we have changed our tune or will in the future.

Those scholarships cannot be repealed or reduced as long as the student athlete remains in good standing (i.e. isn't getting arrested, flunking out of school, etc)

I'm sure that Marquette has changed its position.  First, a different university president and a different athletic director were running things, but mostly because the vote a few years ago was about whether NCAA Division I as a whole was going to be allowed to offer such scholarships prior to the power five conferences having the power to make such decisions for themselves.  Now that those schools have that ability and have authorized such scholarships, Marquette - and for that matter the Big East - will also offer such scholarships as is necessary to remain competitive in the recruiting marketplace.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2015, 09:11:15 AM »
You're smarter than this. The Power 5 guaranteed that every school would would offer multiyear scholarships in every sport. They didn't guarentee that every student athlete would get one. Know how many basketball players are getting offered multiyear scholarships? Next to zero. Coaches don't want to take the risk of losing a scholarship if a player doesn't work out.

Some schools are requiring it since 2012 in those conferences.  Feel free to prove me wrong, it is my understanding since the new rules were adopted that they will be required to offer 4 year guarantees.  If the player leaves to go pro, no skin off their back. If he transfers, no skin off their back.  If he quits, the scholarship shifts to a non athletic grant in aid, so it doesn't impact scholarship limits...no skin off their back.

Again, this is my understanding.  I'll confirm today with a very good friend who is an AD at a Big 12 school.  You may be right, but that is not my understanding of the recent changes.


EDIT:  Effective immediately, the Big Ten will ensure that none of its recruited athletes — in any sport — can lose their financial aid because of injury, poor play or coaches’ judgment.

Jim Delany, the league’s commissioner, said, “To make a four-year commitment and give student-athletes the security, it’s the right thing to do.”


EDIT 2:   Pac-12   "All Athletic scholarships will be guaranteed for four years for student-athletes in all sports."
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 09:34:23 AM by ChicosBailBonds »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2015, 09:35:16 AM »
As of 2013, the number was less than 10% of ALL athletes. Of those that had it, next to none were college basketball players.

If players are given a multi-year scholarship and leave before it is over, I think just about everyone agrees they should have to sit. The argument is for those who only have 1 year scholarships or have completed their two or three year scholarship. They are expired contracts, the athletes shouldn't be punished for searching elsewhere.

Yes, but the rules changed in 2014.

MU82

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2015, 10:07:22 AM »
Yes, but the rules changed in 2014.

That's a good thing! Please provide more facts -- and about schools that aren't in the Big 5 -- as you get them.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson