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Author Topic: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers  (Read 18093 times)

Pakuni

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Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« on: July 29, 2015, 05:34:00 PM »
Interesting stat ... 37 percent of top 100 recruits that aren't one-and-done transfer at some point, and that's rising (it was 47 percent for the Class of 2011).
And it starts in high school ... more than half of top 100 recruits attended multiple schools before getting to college.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/07/29/top-100-high-school-recruits-transfer-behavior-study

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 05:39:25 PM »
I would have liked to see if transfers have any correlation to graduation rates.

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 05:53:03 PM »
And the reason I would like to see it is because I don't think transfers themselves are a problem, but transfers could lead to academic problems.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2015, 10:03:35 PM »
We've taught kids it is ok not to stick it out when the going gets tough, the easy road is just leave for something else.  Starts before even high school, at the AAU levels.

We reap what we sow.  Izzo, K and others have been saying this for quite some time.  It's a generation of people that don't want to tough it out and expect everything to happen just because.  Unfortunately it extends into the market place now as well.   Entitlement galore.

naginiF

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 06:42:43 AM »
I said this in a different thread before i was smart enough to scroll down and see that the conversation was already underway but...

What usually gets lost in the conversation is that the transfer rate of top 100 basketball recruits is absolutely no different than the general 4 year student population.  We don't blame the administration when Bobby Q or Suzy Q transfer but we sure blame the coaching staff when a player transfers.

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 07:47:40 AM »
We don't seem to have a problem when MU accepts transfers.  Are Luke Fischer, Andrew Rowsey, Trent Lockett, etc. "entitled?"  Or are they seeking an opportunity that better fits them?  As naginiF says, the general student population transfers between schools regularly.  We actually make it easy for them to do so - much easier than a generation ago.

I guess I don't think 18 year olds (or younger) should be tagged as "soft" because they have reevaluated their situation (academically, athletically, socially) and felt they were better fits elsewhere.

And Coach K doesn't seem to have any trouble accepting transfers (Rodney Hood, Sean Obi).  Neither does Tom Izzo (Eron Harris...who is suspended).  So don't give me their hypocritical bullsh*t.

warriorchick

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 08:18:19 AM »
I said this in a different thread before i was smart enough to scroll down and see that the conversation was already underway but...

What usually gets lost in the conversation is that the transfer rate of top 100 basketball recruits is absolutely no different than the general 4 year student population.  We don't blame the administration when Bobby Q or Suzy Q transfer but we sure blame the coaching staff when a player transfers.

Is it really apples to apples though? Does the numbers of the 4 year student population include kids that have to transfer for reasons such as no longer being able to afford their current school, or switching their major to one that isn't offered at their current school?  My guess is those reasons are very rare among the top 100.  Take those out and then let's see how they stack up against each other.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 08:22:31 AM by warriorchick »
Have some patience, FFS.

swoopem

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 08:21:10 AM »
We don't seem to have a problem when MU accepts transfers.  Are Luke Fischer, Andrew Rowsey, Trent Lockett, etc. "entitled?"  Or are they seeking an opportunity that better fits them?  As naginiF says, the general student population transfers between schools regularly.  We actually make it easy for them to do so - much easier than a generation ago.

I guess I don't think 18 year olds (or younger) should be tagged as "soft" because they have reevaluated their situation (academically, athletically, socially) and felt they were better fits elsewhere.

And Coach K doesn't seem to have any trouble accepting transfers (Rodney Hood, Sean Obi).  Neither does Tom Izzo (Eron Harris...who is suspended).  So don't give me their hypocritical bullsh*t.

Izzo also accepted the transfer of Forbes (can't think of his first name) from Cleveland St. He will probably be a starter this year and was a key player on their final 4 team last year.
Bring back FFP!!!

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 08:49:56 AM »
Izzo also accepted the transfer of Forbes (can't think of his first name) from Cleveland St. He will probably be a starter this year and was a key player on their final 4 team last year.

K and Izzo have said point blank they are hypocrites in the process and they will take kids.  Let's not pretend that transfers didn't happen 50 years ago either.  Their point is the epidemic it is now is because of how the basketball society (as it were) of AAU programs, high schools, etc, has taught kids and parents to shop around. Hard to argue with them, regardless if they have taken transfers.  That doesn't change the WHY it is happening.

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 09:00:39 AM »
K and Izzo have said point blank they are hypocrites in the process and they will take kids.  Let's not pretend that transfers didn't happen 50 years ago either.  Their point is the epidemic it is now is because of how the basketball society (as it were) of AAU programs, high schools, etc, has taught kids and parents to shop around. Hard to argue with them, regardless if they have taken transfers.  That doesn't change the WHY it is happening.


But you fail to say why shopping around is indeed a problem.  You instead use vague phrases like "entitlement galore."

And my guess is that it oftentimes *is* a problem.  There are undoubtedly kids that transfer because they don't want to tough it out.  The coach yells at them too much.  They don't want to wait their turn.  Next thing you know they have used their eligibility and aren't close to graduating.

But my other guess is that oftentimes it isn't a problem at all.  It is Luke Fischer wanting to be closer to home.  It is Andrew Rowsey wanting to step up in competition.  It is Trent Lockett wanting to spend his one more year on a team that can go deep in the tournament.  It is John Dawson wanting to get more playing time by stepping down in competition.  To me, none of these are problems.

The discussion at the national level always seem to default to "transfer=bad."  Transfers are an "epidemic."  Epidemics are bad things right?

But in the end, I have no idea if the sheer number of transfers really is a problem.  As I said, for some players it undoubtedly is one.  And for some players, it is no problem whatsoever.

Pakuni

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2015, 09:06:04 AM »
Since when did it become a bad thing for people to "shop around" for the best opportunities to further their life goals?

I'd imagine every one of us over the age of 25 has left one employer to take a job with another that offered what we believed would be a better opportunity. Were we all just entitled brats taking the easy way out? Or does that standard only apply to (mostly minority) athletes?

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2015, 09:11:05 AM »
Since when did it become a bad thing for people to "shop around" for the best opportunities to further their life goals?

I'd imagine every one of us over the age of 25 has left one employer to take a job with another that offered what we believed would be a better opportunity. Were we all just entitled brats taking the easy way out? Or does that standard only apply to (mostly minority) athletes?



I left my first job out of Marquette after nine months for a very similar job and a marginal increase in pay.  The reason?  My boss was an a$$hole.

Never once have I regretted that move.  It was a better place for me to grow professionally and I was working for a great mentor who I still talk with today.  Never once have I reflected back on that and said "boy I wish I would have toughed it out.  I was so soft and entitled."

It was their loss.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 09:31:39 AM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

Pakuni

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2015, 09:23:48 AM »
And my guess is that it oftentimes *is* a problem.  There are undoubtedly kids that transfer because they don't want to tough it out.  The coach yells at them too much.  They don't want to wait their turn.  Next thing you know they have used their eligibility and aren't close to graduating.

Even if these cases, I'm not sure transferring is such a bad thing.
If a kid doesn't see playing time in his future at Program A, but could play 30 minutes per game at lesser Program B, what's wrong with moving on to Program B? I guess I just don't see the desire to play a game to which you've dedicated a large part of your life as some sort character flaw.

I know the answer for some will be "Well, that kid should just work harder and compete for playing time on his team." Maybe that's the case in some instances, but more likely a kid transfers because he knows no matter how hard he works he's not going to beat out the guys ahead of him (and often he's been told this, directly or indirectly, by the coaching staff).
I mean, Kevin Menard and Jamal Ferguson could have lived in the gym at MU, but it was pretty obvious neither were going to win significant PT.

warriorchick

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 09:29:00 AM »

I left my first job out of Marquette after nine months for a very similar job and a marginal increase in pay.  The reason?  My boss was an pretty boy.

What exactly does that mean?  Serious question.
Have some patience, FFS.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 09:29:56 AM »
Is it inherently bad to shop around?  No.   However, if you take it too far and you shop around at every whim, every time you didn't get your 18min a game, that ends up creating a personal expectation that you just keep quitting on things and never see them through.  Perseverence....are we teaching that anymore?

I see it with millenials at the office every day....current gig and former gig.  Fresh out of school and they don't understand why the corner office hasn't been given to them yet.  They want a project, it is given to someone else and instead of working harder and proving they deserved it, they're online looking for another gig. 

Life is tough, athletics is no different.  Transfers has become part of a societal "give it to me now" no need to "pay my dues" process.  A coach yells, hurts their feelings....leaving. 

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 09:31:06 AM »
What exactly does that mean?  Serious question.


LOL...Scoop corrected my use of "a$$hole" to that.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2015, 09:32:12 AM »
Since when did it become a bad thing for people to "shop around" for the best opportunities to further their life goals?

I'd imagine every one of us over the age of 25 has left one employer to take a job with another that offered what we believed would be a better opportunity. Were we all just entitled brats taking the easy way out? Or does that standard only apply to (mostly minority) athletes?

After one year?  No.  So your example doesn't apply to "every one of us", certainly not with me.  Never left a job short of one year like a number of these kids do.   Plus, you're also making a false equivalency.  Someone leaves a job for a better salary, benefits, commute, whatever.  There is no such guarantee with a transfer....it is merely a potential promise of more minutes, or a better team, or whatever.  Tangible vs intangible.

GGGG

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2015, 09:34:53 AM »
After one year?  No.  So your example doesn't apply to "every one of us", certainly not with me.  Never left a job short of one year like a number of these kids do.   Plus, you're also making a false equivalency.  Someone leaves a job for a better salary, benefits, commute, whatever.  There is no such guarantee with a transfer....it is merely a potential promise of more minutes, or a better team, or whatever.  Tangible vs intangible.


Ironic because your entire argument in this thread is intangible.  You are unable to specifically address why this is a problem, but completely fall back on the "THESE DAMN KIDS!!!"type of subjective observations.

warriorchick

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2015, 09:36:15 AM »

LOL...Scoop corrected my use of "a$$hole" to that.

Got it.  ;D
Have some patience, FFS.

wadesworld

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2015, 10:05:13 AM »
After one year?  No.  So your example doesn't apply to "every one of us", certainly not with me.  Never left a job short of one year like a number of these kids do.   Plus, you're also making a false equivalency.  Someone leaves a job for a better salary, benefits, commute, whatever.  There is no such guarantee with a transfer....it is merely a potential promise of more minutes, or a better team, or whatever.  Tangible vs intangible.

One year out of...an overall 40 year working career, right?  So 2.5% of an average person's career working full time.  Compared to 1 year out of a 4 year college basketball career.  Or 25% of a college basketball player's career.  For an equivalent comparison to getting a new job after just 1 (or less) years, you'd have to look at how many college basketball players transfer after 1.2 (or less) months at their school.  Or you could look at how many people have changed jobs in the first 25% of their working career.  So on average roughly 10 years.  My guess is you probably changed jobs within the first 10 years out of college.
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naginiF

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2015, 10:53:01 AM »
Is it really apples to apples though? Does the numbers of the 4 year student population include kids that have to transfer for reasons such as no longer being able to afford their current school, or switching their major to one that isn't offered at their current school?  My guess is those reasons are very rare among the top 100.  Take those out and then let's see how they stack up against each other.
Fair.  I'm assuming that since the 'ave' student doesn't have to think about playing time/getting recruited over and coaching changes the differences in motivations cancel each other out. 

Cooby Snacks

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2015, 12:44:32 PM »
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/07/29/college-basketball-coaching-movement-transfer-study

Rate of coaches changing schools is generally higher than the transfer rate. These guys need to suck it up and tough it out and nose to the grindstone and elbow grease.

Pakuni

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2015, 12:53:08 PM »
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/07/29/college-basketball-coaching-movement-transfer-study

Rate of coaches changing schools is generally higher than the transfer rate. These guys need to suck it up and tough it out and nose to the grindstone and elbow grease.

Middle-aged people today are entitled, soft and always looking for the easy way out.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2015, 12:53:56 PM »
Frankly, I don't think transferring after a single year is that big a deal. Kids (and programs) realize there isn't a good fit. Similarly, the Lockett and Carlino transfers were post graduate situations, or whatever they call them. The problem, as I see it, are the situations, like Memphis, where there seems to be no rhyme or reason. Blankson was another example. These kids become a major part of teams plans and just bail. It doesn't seem right. Not sure what the solution is...it's an ugly business.

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Sports Illustrated looks at college basketball transfers
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2015, 02:14:50 PM »
We've taught kids it is ok not to stick it out when the going gets tough, the easy road is just leave for something else.   

Didn't you just jump from Directv while waiting to get the heck out of Cali?  ;)

 

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