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Author Topic: Woj: JFB would reject max offer  (Read 14974 times)

drewm88

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Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« on: June 16, 2015, 08:39:03 PM »
Woj reports that Jimmy wants to pursue a short-term contract to keep his options open once the cap skyrockets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--bulls-restricted-free-agent-jimmy-butler-plans-to-pursue-shorter-term-offer-sheets-212134060.html

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 09:38:42 PM »
A few months ago, it looked like both Wes and Jimmy would be getting max contract offers this off-season.  Today, it looks very likely that both will be getting short-term deals for next year.  I'm a Bulls fan (lifelong), but I hope Jimmy gets paid maximum (whether by the Bulls or another team).  He deserves every penny.

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 10:02:10 PM »
Jimmy doesn't want to play with Drose either

#UnleashSean

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2015, 12:21:30 AM »
Ballsy risky move. I like it.

mcderjim

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2015, 12:59:54 AM »
Before I even read about the rumors of JFB and D Rose, I just had a gut feel that they didn't have rhythm together on the court. Jimmy has always been respectful of his teammates and he says the right things but you just don't see that camaraderie. Some of Jimmy's best games (and the Bulls) were early in the season when Rose was out. They just don't mesh and Jimmy would take a back seat during the regular season. In the playoffs, Jimmy tried to step up and get the offense going but that Rose/Butler magic never developed. So know I'm hearing that this problem relationship may be a factor in Jimmy looking to get out of Chicago (including the loss of Thibs and maximizing his value for the long term). Personally, I would like the Bulls to trade Rose while there's still some perceived value there. Would love to hear the thoughts from others

MU82

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2015, 05:25:03 AM »
Before I even read about the rumors of JFB and D Rose, I just had a gut feel that they didn't have rhythm together on the court. Jimmy has always been respectful of his teammates and he says the right things but you just don't see that camaraderie. Some of Jimmy's best games (and the Bulls) were early in the season when Rose was out. They just don't mesh and Jimmy would take a back seat during the regular season. In the playoffs, Jimmy tried to step up and get the offense going but that Rose/Butler magic never developed. So know I'm hearing that this problem relationship may be a factor in Jimmy looking to get out of Chicago (including the loss of Thibs and maximizing his value for the long term). Personally, I would like the Bulls to trade Rose while there's still some perceived value there. Would love to hear the thoughts from others

You know, I hadn't even pondered the Bulls trading Rose. But it makes a lot of sense if they can get great value for him.

PG is such an important position that one is loathe to give up a great one. Which leads to the questions: Is Rose a great one? Is he a PG around whom you can build a championship team? Is he "worth" anywhere near the contract he received? Is he reliable enough and durable enough to be a long-term, championship-level PG?

The answer to the last question obviously is No, and it might be No to the other questions, as well.

Why wait until he gets hurt again and his value declines markedly? I think I'd shop him.

Nice conversation-starter, mcderjim!
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Tugg Speedman

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 06:04:33 AM »
Ballsy risky move. I like it.

Smart move as the max contract will increase by $100 million in the next few years.

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 08:15:33 AM »
I'm not sure there's a trade market for Rose. That's a monster contract for a guy that just can't stay healthy. Maybe after next year if he stays healthy, but with two years on his contract, that's a lot of money to pay for a guy with all his issues.

The question for Chicago is if Jimmy can be the best player on a title winning team. They'll certainly match any offer this year, but that next contract will determine if they mean him to be the centerpiece or that 2nd/3rd option.
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jficke13

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2015, 08:31:49 AM »
If the bulls can trade Rose and get some value, not even great value, but some value, they should do it. He's a classic tragic guy who but for injuries could have been something incredible. He's just not the same as he was.

MUMonster03

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2015, 08:42:18 AM »
A few months ago, it looked like both Wes and Jimmy would be getting max contract offers this off-season.  Today, it looks very likely that both will be getting short-term deals for next year.  I'm a Bulls fan (lifelong), but I hope Jimmy gets paid maximum (whether by the Bulls or another team).  He deserves every penny.

The cap is the exact reason Lebron only signed for 2 years in Cleveland (1 with an option for next year). Waiting for that new TV money to kick in. Wouldn't be surprised to see Love give it another go in Cleveland next year with a short contract and then get max the year after. Of worried about an injury you can always do what Russell Wilson has and take out a huge insurance policy for that season.

I hope they both get paid, but would love to see Butler leave the Bulls so I can actually root for him again.

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2015, 08:51:10 AM »
Rose is frustrating. The problem is he's an attacking, scoring point. That's fine when you have otherworldly athleticism, but he simply hasn't been the same since the injuries and hasn't learned to play another way.

Derrick at his peak truly was one of the best in the game and had enough supporting cast to make the Bulls a contender, but he never learned to make his teammates better. And being the hometown hero, I'm not sure his ego will let him do that.

Maybe get 2-3 expiring contracts for him before Durant hits the market? Probably the best case scenario if they want to trade him this year. They certainly won't get anyone of true high value.
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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2015, 08:56:41 AM »
If you can get some Gatorade powder for Derrick Rose, do it.

LAMUfan

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 09:04:39 AM »
If you can get some Gatorade powder for Derrick Rose, do it.

Well I mean not for purple.  Orange or red and we can talk.

GOO

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 09:07:27 AM »
Rose has always reminded me of a Carmella Anthony or a Big Dog.  Not in style, but highly skilled players who are great as individual players.  All three would be nightmares in one on one games or even 2 on two games.  But the NBA is played with 5 on the court and a rotation of at least 7 guys.  

All of these guys were/are high volume shooters/scorers, but they don't seem to be the type of player who's teams play well with them.  Maybe Rose's contract won't look so big in a year if the cap goes way up and thus someone will take a chance on him in a trade.  Otherwise, I don't see much trade value for his services.  

MerrittsMustache

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2015, 09:15:48 AM »
Rose is frustrating. The problem is he's an attacking, scoring point. That's fine when you have otherworldly athleticism, but he simply hasn't been the same since the injuries and hasn't learned to play another way.

Derrick at his peak truly was one of the best in the game and had enough supporting cast to make the Bulls a contender, but he never learned to make his teammates better. And being the hometown hero, I'm not sure his ego will let him do that.

Maybe get 2-3 expiring contracts for him before Durant hits the market? Probably the best case scenario if they want to trade him this year. They certainly won't get anyone of true high value.

I don't agree about Rose not making his teammates better early in his career, but I'd agree with that now. Everyone who watches the Bulls can see that Rose isn't the player he was before the injuries. Unfortunately, Rose hasn't figured that out yet, which means he hasn't adjusted his game. From a metrics standpoint, Rose was barely above average last season and he was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs. He still considers himself to be an elite player in the NBA, but he's just not. He's still good enough to be an All-Star and still good enough to be a key piece to a championship team, but the Bulls are Jimmy's team now and the fact that Derrick hasn't recognized that (or won't admit that) killed the team against Cleveland.


brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 09:19:08 AM »
Good analogy, GOO. In the NBA, even guys like Jordan and Lebron weren't good enough to win titles without a supporting cast. I'm confident the Bulls know that Rose can no longer be that guy, but for now that contract is an anchor they can't shed.
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4everwarriors

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2015, 09:36:53 AM »
If you can get some Gatorade powder for Derrick Rose, do it.


Toss in Ryan Braun too, ai na?
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JWags85

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2015, 10:08:48 AM »
Rose has always reminded me of a Carmella Anthony or a Big Dog.  Not in style, but highly skilled players who are great as individual players.  All three would be nightmares in one on one games or even 2 on two games.  But the NBA is played with 5 on the court and a rotation of at least 7 guys.  

All of these guys were/are high volume shooters/scorers, but they don't seem to be the type of player who's teams play well with them.  Maybe Rose's contract won't look so big in a year if the cap goes way up and thus someone will take a chance on him in a trade.  Otherwise, I don't see much trade value for his services.  

Like MM just said, currently, with his decreased play and unchanged mindset, but early in his career he averaged plenty of assists cause his penetration opened up SO much.  He was a lethal scorer and distributor.  Its a shame that we'll never see that Rose again.  To compare him to Carmello, and his black hole ball holding, is very unfair.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2015, 09:32:03 AM »
Jimmy and Thibs dining it up together at Gibson's. Jimmy's contract play will be interesting.  He is obviously very close to his former coach.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/725518/jimmy-butler-tom-thibodeau-dinner

4everwarriors

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2015, 11:33:54 AM »
Maybe Thibs just wants to be his agent and grab 4%, hey?
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77ncaachamps

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2015, 03:25:32 PM »
Looks like LBJ made his decision. Paydays are bigger somewhere else.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13163726/lebron-james-bypass-option-cleveland-cavaliers-become-free-agent

The risk for players like Wes and Jimmy is they don't have the LBJ label and a dramatic injury, like Wes's, really puts them in a bad bind contract-wise. Jimmy's ceiling and age helps him out though.
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mcderjim

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2015, 09:09:10 PM »
Some news is just no news at all....Tribune trying to make up a story with Thibs and Jimmy.  Perhaps Jimmy just appreciates the hell out of Thibs. The coach saw the skills in Jimmy and gave him a huge break. I'm sure there's a ton of mutual admiration as Thibs respected Jimmys work ethic. End of story...two guys that appreciate each other and are both the better for it. And Gibsons gets to put their picture on the wall.

withoutbias

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2015, 09:14:53 PM »
Some news is just no news at all....Tribune trying to make up a story with Thibs and Jimmy.  Perhaps Jimmy just appreciates the hell out of Thibs. The coach saw the skills in Jimmy and gave him a huge break. I'm sure there's a ton of mutual admiration as Thibs respected Jimmys work ethic. End of story...two guys that appreciate each other and are both the better for it. And Gibsons gets to put their picture on the wall.

...yeah, and 1 of those 2 guys who "appreciate the hell" out of the other was fired.

mcderjim

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2015, 09:55:29 PM »
My guess is that Jimmy signs a nice short term contract with the Bulls. He can then take advantage of the upcoming increases. It gives him time to see what the Bulls do with the team. I think he genuinely likes his teammates but lots of contracts expiring in the next couple years. If all goes well, advantage to the Bulls to sign Jimmy long term but I believe there is an underlying issue with how Rose and Jimmy play together. Hope Hoiberg figures it out or Jimmy will end up in a couple of years on a team that thinks they can beat CLV with Jimmy defending LeBron.

drewm88

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2015, 08:00:45 AM »
The Bulls can match anything. He'll be in Chicago next year.

Jimmy doesn't want a long-term contract this summer. He'll likely be doing this again next year.

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2015, 08:09:14 AM »
The Bulls can match anything. He'll be in Chicago next year.

Jimmy doesn't want a long-term contract this summer. He'll likely be doing this again next year.

Nah, he'll probably sign a 3-year deal, 2 at the minimum.
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mr.MUskie

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2015, 09:42:21 AM »
Report: Jimmy Butler wants to sign impossible 1-year deal with Lakers
Blake MurphyJun 29 2015, 9:16 AM
Jimmy Butler has always fervently believed in himself, enough so that he now seems to think he can circumvent the collective bargaining agreement.

While the Chicago Bulls restricted free agent has been adamant that he wants to remain with the team, he's now hoping to head elsewhere, according to Mark Medina of Los Angeles Daily News. Specifically, Butler would like to land with the Los Angeles Lakers, and do so on a one-year deal.

From Medina:

Lastly, Chicago forward Jimmy Butler hopes to take his talents elsewhere and take advantage of the new television deal after his career year coincided with Tom Thibodeau's firing and Derrick Rose's chemistry issues. Although Butler wants to sign a one-year deal with the Lakers, according to a league source familiar with his thinking, the Bulls are expected to match any offer for the restricted free agent.
This jibes with reports from earlier in June that Butler wanted to seek a short-term maximum offer sheet in order to quickly re-enter free agency in a more advantageous market after the salary cap has exploded. It also continues to fuel speculation that Butler and Derrick Rose aren't exactly BFFs, an idea the organization has continued to try to dispel.

The primary incongruity in the report is that Butler can't sign a one-year max deal with the Lakers. An offer sheet to a restricted free agent has to be at least two years, and it has to be at least three years if the Bulls give Butler a maximum qualifying offer, as expected. Even if the Lakers offered him the short-term max, the Bulls have the option to match any offer.

Butler's agent is probably trying to get some leverage with this kind of report, though it may be fruitless - the Bulls have no incentive to give Butler a shorter deal unless they have to match an offer.

The only recourse Butler has for getting out of Chicago within the next three seasons is to play out the season on his $4.4-million qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. That's an incredibly risky move - it leaves an estimated $86.5 million in guaranteed money on the table - but Butler's rolled the dice on himself before, and here he is, on the precipice of an enormous payday.

The league's Most Improved Player this season, the 25-year-old Butler averaged 20 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists, and 1.8 steals while playing aggressive and disruptive perimeter defense. He's worthy of a maximum contract, and should he take the risk and remain healthy for 2015-16, he'll be worth the appreciably larger maximum next summer.

mu03eng

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2015, 10:31:46 AM »
Jimmy, along with LJ, Love, etc are all going to try and do 1 year deals.  I'm betting James resigns with Cleveland but for 2 years at most.  Their agents can read the CBA like everyone else and know what's in the new TV deal....salary caps are going to explode in a year or two and you want to be a free agent when that happens.

JFB will resign with the Bulls, but for a 1 or 2 year deal.  He will get PAID in 2017.
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JuniorCardigan

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2015, 10:44:43 AM »
I think its funny how signing a one year contract with a garbage team is some sort of threat that players use now. Especially one that a restricted free agent uses.

What is it with some of these guys and the Lakers? Is it the LA market? Is it Kobe?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 10:50:08 AM by JuniorCardigan »

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2015, 10:46:18 AM »
The Bulls will offer Butler the maximum tender. That's a given. Any deal for him will have to be for at least 3 years. As the headline says, "Jimmy Butler wants to sign impossible 1-year deal with the Lakers". He may want that, but it won't happen because the Bulls tender offer will make any 1-year deal against league rules.

Butler's only chance at getting out of Chicago is if the Lakers can put together a 3-year poison pill deal so steep that Chicago can't match it (similar to what Houston did with Omer Asik). But again, it will be a 3-year deal, not a 1 or 2 year deal.

Jimmy bet on himself and won, but he won't be able to make a similar bet until 2018, by which time everything in Chicago will be different, primarily that Derrick Rose will likely be gone.
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GGGG

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2015, 10:57:17 AM »
But a poison pill is going to be backloaded, and the cap is going up so much the year after next that I don't think it really matters.  And right now the Bulls have plenty of room under next year's cap.

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2015, 11:15:06 AM »
But a poison pill is going to be backloaded, and the cap is going up so much the year after next that I don't think it really matters.  And right now the Bulls have plenty of room under next year's cap.

Not necessarily. Poison pills can be frontloaded as well. I misremembered the Asik deal, but when Wes Matthews signed with Portland, they frontloaded it so Utah couldn't match. The total dollar amount won't change, but LA could try to hamstring Chicago for 2015-16 when they already have a large amount of money committed, then have more cap friendly numbers in 16-17 and 17-18.

Signing elsewhere, the maximum deal size would be around 3 years/$49M I believe. If that was structured to be $25M/12M/12M, it may make it difficult for Chicago to retain him.
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drewm88

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2015, 12:46:58 PM »
The Bulls will offer Butler the maximum tender. That's a given. Any deal for him will have to be for at least 3 years. As the headline says, "Jimmy Butler wants to sign impossible 1-year deal with the Lakers". He may want that, but it won't happen because the Bulls tender offer will make any 1-year deal against league rules.

Butler's only chance at getting out of Chicago is if the Lakers can put together a 3-year poison pill deal so steep that Chicago can't match it (similar to what Houston did with Omer Asik). But again, it will be a 3-year deal, not a 1 or 2 year deal.

Jimmy bet on himself and won, but he won't be able to make a similar bet until 2018, by which time everything in Chicago will be different, primarily that Derrick Rose will likely be gone.

From above:
The only recourse Butler has for getting out of Chicago within the next three seasons is to play out the season on his $4.4-million qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2015, 01:18:03 PM »
He could do the qualifying offer, but the whole "1-year deal with the Lakers" is beyond silly talk.

EDIT: And good point, drewm88...I was wrong on that one.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 03:39:27 PM by brewcity77 »
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Skatastrophy

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2015, 03:12:49 PM »
WesMat is an unrestricted free agent this upcoming year. Hopefully he comes to play for the Bulls.

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2015, 03:45:05 PM »
As expected, Bulls have extended a max qualifying offer to Jimmy Butler. If he signs anywhere but Chicago, the Bulls have the right to match and the earliest he could retest the free agency waters would be in three years. His only alternative is to stay in Chicago and play for the tender. That would mean making a max of about $4M instead of $49M (3 years if he signed elsewhere).
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mr.MUskie

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2015, 05:22:45 PM »
Bulls give Butler max qualifying offer, limiting his options
June 29, 2015, 4:15 pm

KEVIN ANDERSON

We haven’t officially hit free agency (12:01am EST on July 1) but it appears the Bulls have already decided how they want to handle Jimmy Butler as a restricted free agent.

In simple terms, what this report means is that the Bulls have limited what Butler can seek during free agency. The five-year max offer means that Butler can only pursue offer sheets from other teams that are at least three years in length with no options. Mark Deeks explains the rule behind this and why the five-year max qualifying offer is rarely made.

This report means that Butler has three primary options once free agency begins.

Option 1: Take the Bulls five-year max offer of $90+ million and enjoy his time in Chicago for the next half decade. As generous as this offer is, I believe Butler will turn it down because he would be an unrestricted free agent at 30, and is unlikely to get a max-offer at that point in his career.

Option 2: Pursue a three-year max offer sheet from another team. The Bulls can (and will) match this offer. This would be a three-year deal worth approximately $50 million. Butler would become an unrestricted free agent in 2018 when he is 28 years-old. I think this is the route Butler will go.

Option 3: Take the Bulls one-year qualifying offer of $4.4 million and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. Butler bet on himself last October by turning down the Bulls four-year offer (reportedly for $44 million). He won that bet by having the best season of his career and being named an All-Star. If Butler doubles down and takes the one-year deal then he will hit the open market during a time that will see the largest cap increase in league history.

If Butler has a similar season to the one he just had, in 2016 he could get an approximately four-year, $96 million offer from another team, or a roughly five-year, $130 million offer from the Bulls. Butler would have to turn down at least $46 million to do this, though. It would be a huge risk because one knee injury could cost him millions of dollars. If Butler is extremely confident he can perform at an All-Star level again, he might take this option.


79Warrior

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2015, 07:29:52 PM »
I think its funny how signing a one year contract with a garbage team is some sort of threat that players use now. Especially one that a restricted free agent uses.

What is it with some of these guys and the Lakers? Is it the LA market? Is it Kobe?

Sure. Who would want to play at Staples Center for one of the all time great franchises in NBA history.

JuniorCardigan

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2015, 12:04:21 AM »
Sure. Who would want to play at Staples Center for one of the all time great franchises in NBA history.

Thats true, but they are also one of the worst teams in the NBA right now. Seems strange to me to go from the one of the all time great franchises in NBA history that is currently good to one of the all time great franchises in NBA history that is currently god-awful.

But hey if JFB wants to play for a 25 win team throwing 25 mil at Kobe, go for it.

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2015, 12:12:14 AM »
Thats true, but they are also one of the worst teams in the NBA right now. Seems strange to me to go from the one of the all time great franchises in NBA history that is currently good to one of the all time great franchises in NBA history that is currently god-awful.

But hey if JFB wants to play for a 25 win team throwing 25 mil at Kobe, go for it.

Uhhhhh you realize the lakers are in on just about every big FA right?

On top of getting Russell and Kobe/randle back?
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79Warrior

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2015, 12:34:28 AM »
Thats true, but they are also one of the worst teams in the NBA right now. Seems strange to me to go from the one of the all time great franchises in NBA history that is currently good to one of the all time great franchises in NBA history that is currently god-awful.

But hey if JFB wants to play for a 25 win team throwing 25 mil at Kobe, go for it.

They are far from God awful. That title solely belongs to the NY Knicks.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2015, 01:49:17 AM »
Here's the thing. Jimmy bet on himself once and that's great. Let's say he does the short term deal for let's just say two years. He's young but not that young. At the end of that 2 year deal he will already be 28 in the next contract negotiation. That doesn't even account for injuries that may happen. I love Jimmy and I don't doubt he can be a player but take the max contract and don't risk losing it to injuries. Especially if he's gonna be approaching 30 the next contract go around.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2015, 02:08:55 AM »
Here's the thing. Jimmy bet on himself once and that's great. Let's say he does the short term deal for let's just say two years. He's young but not that young. At the end of that 2 year deal he will already be 28 in the next contract negotiation. That doesn't even account for injuries that may happen. I love Jimmy and I don't doubt he can be a player but take the max contract and don't risk losing it to injuries. Especially if he's gonna be approaching 30 the next contract go around.

While I agree he probably shouldn't push his luck since this was far and away a career year.

I don't think 28 at the start of the season(if he does a 2 year deal) is really "pushing 30" in basketball. That's still basically his prime and he's got 2 full seasons before hitting 30. And the deal would likely be 5 years ages 28-32 where most players are all still very effective.

It's more about not pushing his luck rather than approaching too old in my opinion.
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MUHoopsFan2

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2015, 03:24:30 AM »
While I agree he probably shouldn't push his luck since this was far and away a career year.

I don't think 28 at the start of the season(if he does a 2 year deal) is really "pushing 30" in basketball. That's still basically his prime and he's got 2 full seasons before hitting 30. And the deal would likely be 5 years ages 28-32 where most players are all still very effective.

It's more about not pushing his luck rather than approaching too old in my opinion.
Agreed. But he is 26 already? Wow...just seems like yesterday he was here.

I wonder how old am I now...?Hmm... anyways he does not like the Bulls or Rose I hear?

Surprising. He can take a chance. He plays well and hard both ways. It will still be there in two years only because he had a career year with the Bulls in Chicago. People will remember that. If he was in a smaller market I might say take the longer deal.

MUHoopsFan2

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2015, 03:29:25 AM »
From above:
The only recourse Butler has for getting out of Chicago within the next three seasons is to play out the season on his $4.4-million qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.
Then that is what he should do...if he wants out. Or ask for a sign and trade.

MUHoopsFan2

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2015, 03:39:55 AM »
Then that is what he should do...if he wants out. Or ask for a sign and trade.
I [proposd this before and as usual was laughed at. But look at it.

Perhaps they do a sign and trade with Jimmy Butler for Kobe Bryant who almost came to the Bulls before?

He makes $25 million next year? Butler and Noah can amount to that can't they? How about throwing in Gibson and Lakers swaggy P? Idk...

Bulls won't do it, but Kobe should. Why stay in L.A and rebuild at age 38?

No such thing as loyalty. Kobe still gets paid and can play with Gasol and Rose in new coach Fred Hoiberg's offensive system in Jordan's shadow chasing a ring on the way out for one year.

Then Kobe and Gasol are off the cap after one year and the Bulls can go on a full fledged rebuild with Hoiberg before the strike year? That simple...

There is no loyalty anymore. Even Jordan left the Bulls and played with Wizards.

But if I am Lakers gutless GM I and Jerry Buss' son I would do it in heartbeat.

You would have Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose and Bulls make a run in the same division as LeBron James, Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving!?

What's wrong with that? Lets just forget if it is unlikely or not. Work with me here. LOL. I am having fun just devising it.

But why can't it happen? It's just because of Visionless GM's that is why...or maybe they have thrown this up and around once or twice.

Then save Nikola Mirotic and Portis and Snell for rebuild unless you have to ship one of them off to Lakers. . .

Noah, Taj and Butler go to Lakers...Hmm?? How bout it? Works for me and I couldn't care less what the Bulls do, I'm a Bucks fan...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 03:47:32 AM by MUHoopsFan2 »

brewcity77

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2015, 05:33:27 AM »
Sign and trade Butler for Kobe? Did I fall asleep and wake up in 2004?
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Class71

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2015, 06:15:35 AM »
Smart move as the max contract will increase by $100 million in the next few years.

Think you need to consider the risk of getting injured in a demanding sport and discount that $100 million. Either way it is a load of money. More important to manage it well and then live happily ever after. Apparently this is not so easy. I expect JB will make the right decisions for him.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2015, 07:27:00 AM »
I guess the bigger question is what Gar/Pax cost Jerry by not giving JFB an extra $2million per year last season? Oops.  Bulls will be in luxury tax next season as well.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2015, 09:00:51 AM »
I [proposd this before and as usual was laughed at. But look at it.

Perhaps they do a sign and trade with Jimmy Butler for Kobe Bryant who almost came to the Bulls before?

He makes $25 million next year? Butler and Noah can amount to that can't they? How about throwing in Gibson and Lakers swaggy P? Idk...

Bulls won't do it, but Kobe should. Why stay in L.A and rebuild at age 38?

No such thing as loyalty. Kobe still gets paid and can play with Gasol and Rose in new coach Fred Hoiberg's offensive system in Jordan's shadow chasing a ring on the way out for one year.

Then Kobe and Gasol are off the cap after one year and the Bulls can go on a full fledged rebuild with Hoiberg before the strike year? That simple...

There is no loyalty anymore. Even Jordan left the Bulls and played with Wizards.

But if I am Lakers gutless GM I and Jerry Buss' son I would do it in heartbeat.

You would have Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose and Bulls make a run in the same division as LeBron James, Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving!?

What's wrong with that? Lets just forget if it is unlikely or not. Work with me here. LOL. I am having fun just devising it.

But why can't it happen? It's just because of Visionless GM's that is why...or maybe they have thrown this up and around once or twice.

Then save Nikola Mirotic and Portis and Snell for rebuild unless you have to ship one of them off to Lakers. . .

Noah, Taj and Butler go to Lakers...Hmm?? How bout it? Works for me and I couldn't care less what the Bulls do, I'm a Bucks fan...

I know this is a complete hypothetical but this would make absolutely no sense for the Bulls.  Chasing a title with a 37 year old Kobe and a 35 year old Gasol instead of a 26 year old Butler and a 30 year old Gibson with Gasol on the team?  On the small chance a sign-and-trade with Jimmy is an option, you are going to get a hell of a lot more back for him and Gibson than a guard who is on his last legs.  If the Bulls end up having to blow it up why on earth wouldn't they go for it with Butler and Gibson instead of a broken Kobe?  I'm all for creative trade ideas by come on......

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2015, 11:43:40 AM »
Sign and trade Butler for Kobe? Did I fall asleep and wake up in 2004?

Only issue with that is Jimmy Butler wasn't even playing high school bball at that time lol
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drewm88

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2015, 11:45:59 AM »
From Zach Lowe:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-eight-biggest-nba-free-agency-questions/
Quote
Unfortunately for rabid suitors, the youngest free agents are the hardest ones to get. Teams aren’t allowed to offer restricted free agents like Butler one-year contracts, and since Chicago on Monday hit Butler with a fully guaranteed five-year qualifying offer, any rival deal has to run for at least three guaranteed seasons. If Chicago plays its cards right, Butler will be a Bull for at least the next three years.

Butler is the only one with the power to torpedo that plan by signing a one-year qualifying offer, and entering free agency unrestricted next summer — the same path Monroe took in Detroit. The catch: Butler would earn just $4.4 million next season playing under the qualifying offer, nearly $11.5 million less than the $15.8 million he’d make in the first year of a long-term max deal from the Bulls.

But the cap boom chips away at that risk by ballooning the reward at the other end. A max deal for Butler signed a year from now, with the cap at $90 million, would start at around $21 million — a massive jump. Butler could play out one season with the Bulls, sign a four-year deal next summer with another team, and make about $4 million more over that five-year period than he would re-signing with Chicago for the long haul now. That kind of upside just didn’t exist in a normal cap environment. Butler turned down an extension from Chicago last fall; is he ready to bet even bigger now?

There’s an easy compromise here: Butler signs a three-year deal with another team, perhaps including a player option for a fourth season, and Chicago either matches it or signs Butler to essentially the same deal. That tethers Butler to the Bulls for most of his prime, and gives him the chance to re-enter free agency after his seventh season — the exact moment at which his max contract jumps from 25 percent of the cap to 30 percent.

Butler is not a top-10 pick who has already banked $10 million. He was the 30th pick, and at some point, he needs to secure a pile of cash.

I am surprised to see that the 1 year and then max only adds a total of $4 million over the next 5 years. Is an average of $800,000/year worth the risk of this year going poorly for Jimmy?

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2015, 12:22:56 PM »
5 yr 90 mil is really ballsy to turn down lol
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HouWarrior

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GOO

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2015, 12:47:11 PM »
From Zach Lowe:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-eight-biggest-nba-free-agency-questions/
I am surprised to see that the 1 year and then max only adds a total of $4 million over the next 5 years. Is an average of $800,000/year worth the risk of this year going poorly for Jimmy?
Nowhere close to taking that sort of risk, of course.  Get some security with a 3 year Offer.  Then do the 5 year Offer when that expires.  That should provide him with maximum benefit, with the security of having 3 years guaranteed.

Warrior Code

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Re: Woj: JFB would reject max offer
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2015, 01:33:41 PM »
Jimmy getting paid. Go Bulls.
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