collapse

* Recent Posts

Chicago bars for Fri game by Daniel
[Today at 12:59:15 PM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by The Sultan of Semantics
[Today at 12:57:37 PM]


2024 Transfer Portal by Uncle Rico
[Today at 12:56:44 PM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by cheebs09
[Today at 12:45:22 PM]


Tyler Kolek's "legacy" by Newsdreams
[Today at 12:37:27 PM]


NC State by Sturgeon General Warrior
[Today at 12:34:46 PM]


Dallas bars tonite by Oldgym
[Today at 12:14:42 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Bulls fire Thibs  (Read 5227 times)

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Bulls fire Thibs
« on: May 28, 2015, 11:27:14 AM »
Press release is unusually harsh.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/tomthibodeau528

Chicago Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said, “The Chicago Bulls have a history of achieving great success on and off the court. These accomplishments have been possible because of an organizational culture where input from all parts of the organization has been welcomed and valued, there has been a willingness to participate in a free flow of information, and there have been clear and consistent goals. While the head of each department of the organization must be free to make final decisions regarding his department, there must be free and open interdepartmental discussion and consideration of everyone's ideas and opinions. These internal discussions must not be considered an invasion of turf, and must remain private. Teams that consistently perform at the highest levels are able to come together and be unified across the organization-staff, players, coaches, management and ownership. When everyone is on the same page, trust develops and teams can grow and succeed together. Unfortunately, there has been a departure from this culture. To ensure that the Chicago Bulls can continue to grow and succeed, we have decided that a change in the head coaching position is required. Days like today are difficult, but necessary for us to achieve our goals and fulfill our commitments to our fans. I appreciate the contributions that Tom Thibodeau made to the Bulls organization. I have always respected his love of the game and wish him well in the future.”


ATWizJr

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2374
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 11:29:56 AM »
Press release is unusually harsh.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/tomthibodeau528

Chicago Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said, “The Chicago Bulls have a history of achieving great success on and off the court. These accomplishments have been possible because of an organizational culture where input from all parts of the organization has been welcomed and valued, there has been a willingness to participate in a free flow of information, and there have been clear and consistent goals. While the head of each department of the organization must be free to make final decisions regarding his department, there must be free and open interdepartmental discussion and consideration of everyone's ideas and opinions. These internal discussions must not be considered an invasion of turf, and must remain private. Teams that consistently perform at the highest levels are able to come together and be unified across the organization-staff, players, coaches, management and ownership. When everyone is on the same page, trust develops and teams can grow and succeed together. Unfortunately, there has been a departure from this culture. To ensure that the Chicago Bulls can continue to grow and succeed, we have decided that a change in the head coaching position is required. Days like today are difficult, but necessary for us to achieve our goals and fulfill our commitments to our fans. I appreciate the contributions that Tom Thibodeau made to the Bulls organization. I have always respected his love of the game and wish him well in the future.”


  from being the hot, new, defensive genius to this.

StillWarriors

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 11:43:54 AM »
Bring on Hoiberg. Will be rough for Deonte if/when Hoiberg leaves. At least Jameel is pretty well established and won't be around much longer.

Ellenson Guerrero

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1857
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 11:47:30 AM »
Bring on Hoiberg. Will be rough for Deonte if/when Hoiberg leaves. At least Jameel is pretty well established and won't be around much longer.

Come on back, Bane! And bring Amir Coffey with you! 
"What we take for-granted, others pray for..." - Brent Williams 3/30/14

PuertoRicanNightmare

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3241
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2015, 11:51:27 AM »
I see some national media criticizing the Bulls. I say good riddance. Thibs had a loaded roster this year and wore it into the ground. And having his buddy Van Gundy absolutely verbally assault Reinsdorf and Paxson on national TV was beyond the pale. They probably should've fired him right then and there.

StillWarriors

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2015, 12:03:20 PM »
The Bulls' statement was certainly interesting and made it pretty clear that Thibs was headstrong and wanted it to be his way or the highway. That's not how the Reinsdorf's organizations work. Thibs was a good coach, but rubbed people the wrong way to the point the relationship was too tense to continue. Tough to fault the Bulls for that. In addition, Hoiberg is likely waiting in the wings and in the mold of Steve Kerr, which doesn't seem to have worked out too badly for Golden State.

Ellenson Guerrero

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1857
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2015, 12:06:19 PM »
The Bulls' statement was certainly interesting and made it pretty clear that Thibs was headstrong and wanted it to be his way or the highway. That's not how the Reinsdorf's organizations work. Thibs was a good coach, but rubbed people the wrong way to the point the relationship was too tense to continue. Tough to fault the Bulls for that. In addition, Hoiberg is likely waiting in the wings and in the mold of Steve Kerr, which doesn't seem to have worked out too badly for Golden State.

Poor choice by the Bulls to criticize Thibodeau on his way out.  All the Bulls needed to say was that there were philosophical differences and they believed it was best that the two sides part ways. 
"What we take for-granted, others pray for..." - Brent Williams 3/30/14

LAZER

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2015, 12:17:20 PM »
I love Thibs, but it was time for him to go.

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2015, 12:35:27 PM »
We will see.  The Bulls probably played to where they should've played.  They're not a top 2 team in the Eastern Conference anymore, but they're a top 5 team.  Which is exactly where they finished.  Rose is never going to be the MVP Rose.  Butler is a superstar.  Noah is old and even when healthy he's still just a very good defender and rebounder who brings nothing offensively.  Pau is what we saw from him.  Otherwise?  Not sure you can get more out of Dunleavy or Snell.  Maybe Mirotic becomes something more than a 3 point threat.  McDermott?  Meh.

I guess the question becomes how do they get better?  Rose, Noah, Pau aren't going to play any younger.  You aren't going to be signing any big time difference makers when you're paying those 3 as much as you are plus a max to Butler.  So what's the new coach going to improve?  Playing young guys?  Saving players for the Playoffs?  I mean, let's be honest, the Bulls aren't beating the Cavs even if every single player on their roster was completely healthy, and that's without Kevin Love in the lineup and Irving looking just as old as Rose does.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2015, 12:40:29 PM »
The Bulls' statement was certainly interesting and made it pretty clear that Thibs was headstrong and wanted it to be his way or the highway. That's not how the Reinsdorf's organizations work. Thibs was a good coach, but rubbed people the wrong way to the point the relationship was too tense to continue. Tough to fault the Bulls for that. In addition, Hoiberg is likely waiting in the wings and in the mold of Steve Kerr, which doesn't seem to have worked out too badly for Golden State.

I'm not sure Kerr/the Warriors are a good example of what could happen in Chicago if they go get Hoiberg.  The Warriors were coming off of a 2nd round loss to the best team of this generation.  They also have the best backcourt in the NBA and are filled with youthful talent all over the place.  The 2015 Bulls are heading in a different direction than the 2014 Warriors were.  I'm not at all convinced that if Mark Jackson were still coaching the Warriors they wouldn't be in the same position they are now.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

LloydsLegs

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1428
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2015, 01:00:53 PM »
Thank goodness this is just about over. Sports talk radio now can move on.

jsglow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7378
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2015, 01:01:04 PM »
Press release is unusually harsh.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/tomthibodeau528

Chicago Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said, “The Chicago Bulls have a history of achieving great success on and off the court. These accomplishments have been possible because of an organizational culture where input from all parts of the organization has been welcomed and valued, there has been a willingness to participate in a free flow of information, and there have been clear and consistent goals. While the head of each department of the organization must be free to make final decisions regarding his department, there must be free and open interdepartmental discussion and consideration of everyone's ideas and opinions. These internal discussions must not be considered an invasion of turf, and must remain private. Teams that consistently perform at the highest levels are able to come together and be unified across the organization-staff, players, coaches, management and ownership. When everyone is on the same page, trust develops and teams can grow and succeed together. Unfortunately, there has been a departure from this culture. To ensure that the Chicago Bulls can continue to grow and succeed, we have decided that a change in the head coaching position is required. Days like today are difficult, but necessary for us to achieve our goals and fulfill our commitments to our fans. I appreciate the contributions that Tom Thibodeau made to the Bulls organization. I have always respected his love of the game and wish him well in the future.”



I'm so sorry.  Didn't see your post.  Mods, please merge.

🏀

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8467
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 01:03:46 PM »
Poor choice by the Bulls to criticize Thibodeau on his way out.  All the Bulls needed to say was that there were philosophical differences and they believed it was best that the two sides part ways. 

This is very un-Reinsdorf. VERY strong words from him. This was said for reason and with purpose, not a poor choice at all. Reinsdorf does not make poor choices.

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2015, 01:06:11 PM »
We will see.  The Bulls probably played to where they should've played.  They're not a top 2 team in the Eastern Conference anymore, but they're a top 5 team.  Which is exactly where they finished.  Rose is never going to be the MVP Rose.  Butler is a superstar.  Noah is old and even when healthy he's still just a very good defender and rebounder who brings nothing offensively.  Pau is what we saw from him.  Otherwise?  Not sure you can get more out of Dunleavy or Snell.  Maybe Mirotic becomes something more than a 3 point threat.  McDermott?  Meh.

I guess the question becomes how do they get better?  Rose, Noah, Pau aren't going to play any younger.  You aren't going to be signing any big time difference makers when you're paying those 3 as much as you are plus a max to Butler.  So what's the new coach going to improve?  Playing young guys?  Saving players for the Playoffs?  I mean, let's be honest, the Bulls aren't beating the Cavs even if every single player on their roster was completely healthy, and that's without Kevin Love in the lineup and Irving looking just as old as Rose does.

Jimmy has become an All-Star-caliber NBA player but he's not a superstar. That is part of the Bulls' problem. Butler is the team's best player but he's not the type of superstar player that can carry a team to a championship. He's not up there with LeBron, Durant, Curry, Harden, etc. He's in the second-tier of NBA stars who need other second-tier stars around them to win a title or who need to become a superstar's sidekick.

He could become like Paul Pierce - a perennial no-brainer, big numbers All-Star who was capable of being "the man" on a title true contender when he was complimented by 3 other All-Star-ish players playing at a high level.

Or he could become like LaMarcus Aldridge - a perennial no-brainer, big numbers All-Star who might have enough to carry his team to the conference finals.

Can Rose bounce back to All-Star form, or at least close to it? Is Gasol done? Is Noah done? The Bulls have some big names but they've all likely left their best days behind them. Next season is basically the last year of their window.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 01:08:25 PM by MerrittsMustache »

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22724
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2015, 01:09:04 PM »
Reinsdorf does not make poor choices.

Except to blow up a six-time championship team that had at least another couple runs in them.

I agree that it was unprofessional to word the press release so harshly.

It's too bad the Bulls hadn't been able to find a coach with the ability to turn a defensive specialist into an All-Star, a seeming has-been center back into an All-Star and various role players into valuable contributors. If only, if only.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2015, 01:12:22 PM »
This is very un-Reinsdorf. VERY strong words from him. This was said for reason and with purpose, not a poor choice at all. Reinsdorf does not make poor choices.


Reinsdorf has been very successful, but he is oftentimes too loyal to those who he likes.  Krause for example should have been dumped long before he ran Jackson out of town.  And Kenny Williams should be hitting the streets too.

That being said, you are right that this is very un-Reinsdorf like. 

RJax55

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2015, 01:25:32 PM »
Except to blow up a six-time championship team that had at least another couple runs in them.

That team had one more run, the strike-shorten '99 season, that's it.

Those that rip Jerry like to portray the '98 Bulls as a team in its prime, but that was hardily the case. It was an older group, whose career minutes were becoming a liability. Pippen was never the same player after the back injury in the '98 finals. Rodman was losing interest in basketball. Harper was at the tail end of his career. Even the great MJ was starting to feel father time, ('98 was his worst shooting full season in a Bulls uniform).

Plus, this idea discounts the rise of other teams. The Pacers took the Bulls in '98 to the floor in the Eastern finals. And, teams like the Spurs and Lakers with HOF young stars were coming.

If you want to rip Jerry, do it for the terrible rebuild the Bulls had under Krause. But the decision to blow-up the '98 team was not a poor one.


RushmoreAcademy

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2015, 01:31:50 PM »

It's too bad the Bulls hadn't been able to find a coach with the ability to turn a defensive specialist into an All-Star, a seeming has-been center back into an All-Star and various role players into valuable contributors. If only, if only.


I'm not concerned with the part of a coaching resume that boasts how many all-stars were created.  He was 22-28 in the playoffs.  I think he was the perfect guy for the team when he was hired, but he just isn't anymore, unfortunately.  I think he can do a lot with a new group of young players and I'm sure he will.  Unfortunately this is the only move you can make right now.  Maybe the next coach takes you backwards or even just keeps the status quo, but maybe they don't.  You kind of have to take the chance.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2015, 01:33:00 PM »
That team had one more run, the strike-shorten '99 season, that's it.

Those that rip Jerry like to portray the '98 Bulls as a team in its prime, but that was hardily the case. It was an older group, whose career minutes were becoming a liability. Pippen was never the same player after the back injury in the '98 finals. Rodman was losing interest in basketball. Harper was at the tail end of his career. Even the great MJ was starting to feel father time, ('98 was his worst shooting full season in a Bulls uniform).

Plus, this idea discounts the rise of other teams. The Pacers took the Bulls in '98 to the floor in the Eastern finals. And, teams like the Spurs and Lakers with HOF young stars were coming.

If you want to rip Jerry, do it for the terrible rebuild the Bulls had under Krause. But the decision to blow-up the '98 team was not a poor one.


It was a poor decision.  Let the team slide at least.  Even if they could have only managed one more title run, that's still better than what they ended up doing.

LloydsLegs

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1428
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2015, 01:40:40 PM »

Reinsdorf has been very successful, but he is oftentimes too loyal to those who he likes.  Krause for example should have been dumped long before he ran Jackson out of town.  And Kenny Williams should be hitting the streets too.

That being said, you are right that this is very un-Reinsdorf like. 

Agree with all of this.

RJax55

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2015, 01:44:40 PM »

It was a poor decision.  Let the team slide at least.  Even if they could have only managed one more title run, that's still better than what they ended up doing.

Looking back at it as a Bulls fan, I don't mind it because in a way Jerry's decision protected their legacy.

Watching that team fall to the Pacers or the Knicks, or getting smoked in the finals by the Spurs or a young Kobe & Shaq would have sucked.

JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2978
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2015, 02:35:56 PM »
Maybe Mirotic becomes something more than a 3 point threat.  McDermott?  Meh.

We will have a much better chance to find out about either without Thibs who nailed them to the bench.  I will not miss his handling of rookies.

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2015, 02:46:04 PM »
We will have a much better chance to find out about either without Thibs who nailed them to the bench.  I will not miss his handling of rookies.

By most accounts, McDermott was terrified of Thibs and, thus, never got comfortable or earned his trust. Going from playing for your dad to play for Thibs must have been quite the adjustment  ;) It'll be interesting to see how he plays under a different regime.

 

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2015, 02:52:59 PM »
Except to blow up a six-time championship team that had at least another couple runs in them.

I agree that it was unprofessional to word the press release so harshly.

It's too bad the Bulls hadn't been able to find a coach with the ability to turn a defensive specialist into an All-Star, a seeming has-been center back into an All-Star and various role players into valuable contributors. If only, if only.
[/quote]

Reinsdorf didn't blow up that team. Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan did. Reinsdorf, in fact, offered both guys deals to stay around. Both refused.

The press release was fine. The Bulls had to explain and publicly justify why they were dumping a coach with a career .647 winning percentage. The press release did that.

Despite your praise, the Bulls have underachieved under Thibs the past two years and he was badly outcoached in the playoffs, even by (gulp) Jason Kidd.

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4916
Re: Bulls fire Thibs
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2015, 02:55:46 PM »
I'm not sure Kerr/the Warriors are a good example of what could happen in Chicago if they go get Hoiberg.  The Warriors were coming off of a 2nd round loss to the best team of this generation.  They also have the best backcourt in the NBA and are filled with youthful talent all over the place.  The 2015 Bulls are heading in a different direction than the 2014 Warriors were.  I'm not at all convinced that if Mark Jackson were still coaching the Warriors they wouldn't be in the same position they are now.

Kerr completely revamped the offense, making it less Curry ball dominant.  Jackson relied much more on Curry iso's.  Kerr also sat Lee & Andre Ig, that allowed Green to flourish and allowed Barnes to regain confidence.  Jackson was not a bad coach, but this year Kerr proved to be a great one.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart