Would Henry be seen as 1 and done had he chose Kentucky?

[wadesworld]

Since nobody addressed the question in the Ellenson NBA thread, what does Scoop have to say about this?  It seems like about 70% of Scoopers think Ellenson's back for at least a second year at MU, with some going so far as to say he'll play 4 years at Marquette.  So I ask you, if Henry had committed to Kentucky over Marquette, would you have said he would be a one and done player?  There is no doubt in my mind that had he chosen Kentucky 90% of Scoopers would have considered him a one and done.  Now that he chose Marquette it's a minority view that he'll be a 1 and done.  Why?  Are we just chicken littles and think nobody who would come to Marquette could possibly be good enough to be a one and done?

[brewcity77]

Over the past 5 years, 36% of top-10 players were one and done. However as the last consensus ranking by RSCI had Henry outside the top-10, should that apply to him?

Personally, I don't care as this is all speculation. No one can know because he didn't commit to UK. I look forward to him playing here. Whether it's for 1, 2, 3, or 4 years.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No. Kentucky will not be very good (by their standards) but Henry would still come off the bench for them. Probably first off the bench, but still a bench player.

Again, hope I'm proven wrong. Think he will be a very good starter for us. I actually think he has a higher chance of going one and done with us

[BCHoopster]

To all the Scoopers, there has only been 1 white kid ever going to the NBA after one year, and that was Kevin Love.  Henry is a fine player, but for sure did not look like an NBA player when I saw him at Concordia.  Lets see how he does playing players his own size every game in college, compared to being double teamed by a bunch of small white kids up north.  Secondly, he like most talented young kids does not even know how to play D yet.  If he played Jabari or Ginannis straight up right now they would blow right by him.  I see him as a two or three player for sure.
He has to mature like most kids physically and mentally.   The best for him would be to get down to Milwaukee and play with the young Bucks and MU players this summer.

[79Warrior]

HE has yet to play a college game. I am far more interested in how he plays for us and not if he is a one and done.

[MuMark]

To all the Scoopers, there has only been 1 white kid ever going to the NBA after one year, and that was Kevin Love.  Henry is a fine player, but for sure did not look like an NBA player when I saw him at Concordia.  Lets see how he does playing players his own size every game in college, compared to being double teamed by a bunch of small white kids up north.  Secondly, he like most talented young kids does not even know how to play D yet.  If he played Jabari or Ginannis straight up right now they would blow right by him.  I see him as a two or three player for sure.
He has to mature like most kids physically and mentally.   The best for him would be to get down to Milwaukee and play with the young Bucks and MU players this summer.

Kosta Koufus, Spencer Hawes, Steven Adams,

[Pakuni]

Kosta Koufus, Spencer Hawes, Steven Adams,

BJ Mullens, Enes Kanter

[MerrittsMustache]

Every top recruit that goes to Kentucky is viewed as a one-and-done because that's the current culture at Kentucky.

[MUCam]

One and Done's are a crapshoot. You just never know. Take for example:

The Proclaimers - I'm going to be (500 miles)

These guys had it all. We are talking, scottish accents, enviably amazing dorky looks, and they were twins to boot. I expected them next to Bono and U2. One and Done. Who would've thunk it?

Paul Hogan - Crocodile Dundee

This guy was destined to catapult himself into, and subsequently remain orbiting, Hollywood's greatest inner circles. He had the looks, an accent to die for, and an uncanny ability to deliver cheesy lines with exquisite precision. I expected 20 more variations of the Dundee with Mr. Hogan leading the way. Instead. One and Done. Who would've thunk it?

Jeremy Lin of NY Knicks Fame.

Need I say more than Linsanity? One and Done.

That chick from the Yellow Pages Tattoo Removal Commercial.

Whoa, nellie. Can you say the next Cindy Crawford Pepsi commercial? But, noooooooo. One and Done.

In sum, all this discussion about whether Ellenson will go pro after next year, or play four, just reminds me how freaking amazing Crocodile Dundee was and how many times I watched one commercial over and over on a loop.

[Galway Eagle]

I think he's better off being a two and done here than a one and done at Kentucky. Kentucky has shown they really don't develop players and I think while Henry has unbelievable upside I think he needs two years of development.  I think he would've been gone after one at Kentucky and it would've put him at a disadvantage in really cracking a rotation in the nba.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

BJ Mullens, Enes Kanter

Is Kanter really a white guy?

[Pakuni]

Is Kanter really a white guy?

Well, he's a European caucasian.

[MerrittsMustache]

One and Done's are a crapshoot. You just never know. Take for example:

Paul Hogan - Crocodile Dundee

This guy was destined to catapult himself into, and subsequently remain orbiting, Hollywood's greatest inner circles. He had the looks, an accent to die for, and an uncanny ability to deliver cheesy lines with exquisite precision. I expected 20 more variations of the Dundee with Mr. Hogan leading the way. Instead. One and Done. Who would've thunk it?

Um, excuse...Do Crocodile Dundee II and Crocodile Dundee in LA mean nothing to you?

[brewcity77]

That chick from the Yellow Pages Tattoo Removal Commercial.

Whoa, nellie. Can you say the next Cindy Crawford Pepsi commercial? But, noooooooo. One and Done.

Blanca Soto. She's had a few cameos here and there, mostly in Mexican telenovelas.

[onepost]

I think Henry is obviously a 1-and-done talent.  Here, UK, MSU, Duke, anywhere.  We wouldn't be going into absurd detail about that (before he even steps foot on campus) if he weren't an obvious 1-and-done candidate.  He could go anywhere and conceivable bounce after only 1 year and no one would have a second thought about it.

But you're not looking at some of the reasons to stay HERE: Wally and Wojo.  Much of the reason there has been talk of Henry being a two-year guy are those two right there.  Playing college bball with Wally is huge to Henry, obviously, and seeing as the Ellenson family is incredibly tight-knit, that may mean more to him than many other stud recruits.  He knows that the NBA will be there at any time because of his crazy potential, but maybe playing one last year with Wally on a team that could be very very good is enough to keep him one more year.  And his relationship with Wojo, from what I hear, is also incredibly close.  Wojo's been able to relate to these guys on levels Buzz never did because of his playing background at the highest collegiate level, experience with Team USA and the world's best players, his young age, etc.  So playing for a coach you've gotten very close to may also be a reason to stay.

He won't be here for 4 years.  That's an absolute certainty.  Coaches and managers (from what I was told) seemed to think he'd be here for 2 years during last season.  I think because the NBA Combine and Draft has come up and he's gotten more hype from Draft Express guys, we've shifted more focus onto 1-and-done, but who knows?  Having him 2 years would be fantastic, and that 16-17 season would be unbelievable, but let's just enjoy it one season at a time.

[Benny B]

Um, excuse...Do Crocodile Dundee II and Crocodile Dundee in LA mean nothing to you?

Hell yeah!  What about those, Cam?  When's the last time a one-and-done was milked so dry he/she had to do a "____ in LA" job.

Ever heard of Dexy's Midnight Runners in LA?  Or The Exorcist in LA (Linda Blair)?  Or Rico Suave in LA? Or Right Said Fred Does the Catwalk in LA?  Exactly what I thought.

[brewcity77]

But you're not looking at some of the reasons to stay HERE: Wally and Wojo.

This is a good point. Part of the reason people think he may stay more than one year is specifically because he didn't choose Kentucky.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Agree.  I think Henry will surprise people by pulling a Kaminski.

[MUDPT]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/insider/story/_/id/12688598/ben-simmons-names-know-2016-nba-draft-nba

I posted this awhile ago, but Chad Ford has Henry as the #6 name to know in his draft.  Most scouts compare him to Kevin Love with a similar game, just not as good.  He won't be here four years and if he averages more than 10ppg, 5 rpg, he won't be here after next year.

[wadesworld]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/insider/story/_/id/12688598/ben-simmons-names-know-2016-nba-draft-nba

I posted this awhile ago, but Chad Ford has Henry as the #6 name to know in his draft.  Most scouts compare him to Kevin Love with a similar game, just not as good.  He won't be here four years and if he averages more than 10ppg, 5 rpg, he won't be here after next year.

No doubt.  I have said all along the only reason Henry is here for 2 years is if he wants to stick it out with his brother for his brother's senior year.  He doesn't have to put up huge numbers to be a top 20 draft pick.  But I expect he will put up big numbers.

[DegenerateDish]

I will be absolutely stunned (barring injury) if Henry is at MU a year from now.

[mug644]

My take will be a bit different, though it's similar to BCHoopster's comments, but without the skin color being a factor.

Henry has had opportunities, but has not regularly played against top notch competition. So, while he has the skills to be a huge success from the outset, I wonder if the pace of the D-1 game, the overall higher level of talent, and the longer season may lead to a transition period that will impact how quickly he moves on. If I need to guess, I'll say he's at MU for 2 years.

That said, count me among the folks that say if he is 1-and-done, that it means MU had a surprisingly good season.

[wadesworld]

My take will be a bit different, though it's similar to BCHoopster's comments, but without the skin color being a factor.

Henry has had opportunities, but has not regularly played against top notch competition. So, while he has the skills to be a huge success from the outset, I wonder if the pace of the D-1 game, the overall higher level of talent, and the longer season may lead to a transition period that will impact how quickly he moves on. If I need to guess, I'll say he's at MU for 2 years.

That said, count me among the folks that say if he is 1-and-done, that it means MU had a surprisingly good season.

He doesn't have to be a dominant force next year to enter the draft.  If he's 9 and 5 he's a top 15 pick next year.

It'll come down to whether he wants 1 last season playing with his brother.  We will see.

[MU82]

Were the Harrison twins projected as 1-and-dones?

Were they good as freshmen? Did they deliver as freshmen on the biggest stage?

Did they leave after 1 year?

Stuff happens. The absolute certainty some people here show on some subjects cracks me up.

[lohaus]

One and done, I remember watching Looney in high school almost a year and a half ago.  Did that guy strike me as a one and done? Not really but definitely a future pro.  He had 38 points, dunks, blocks, 3s, etc.

Henry Ellenson, idk. He is big, can dribble, can move, and can shoot.  I hardly ever see him finish with dunks around the rim though.

It would be crazy if Wisconsin high school basketball produced 3 one and done players in 3 years with Stone, Looney, and Ellenson.

[wadesworld]

Were the Harrison twins projected as 1-and-dones?

Were they good as freshmen? Did they deliver as freshmen on the biggest stage?

Did they leave after 1 year?

Stuff happens. The absolute certainty some people here show on some subjects cracks me up.

Again, the Harrisons are guards who don't shoot the ball overly well. If you want to compare Henry to a Kentucky guy it is Trey Lyles. They are as close to the same size and skill set as you can possibly find in 2 players. Did Lyles absolutely tear apart the competition every time he stepped onto the court? Nope. He averaged 8 and 5 on the season. Look at those numbers alone and should that kid be leaving early? Heck no! But it's more than just numbers. It's being 6'10" and able to shoot and handle the ball like a guard. And I'd argue Henry does both of those better than Trey. And what's Trey's draft stock looking like? Lottery. The NBA drafts young kids based on potential, not college production.

I'd argue the longer Henry is in college the worse his draft stock will be. Not because he will get worse at basketball, but because he will progress less in college than he could even at the end of an NBA bench and as time passes you have to start producing rather than just falling back on potential.

People who make a living evaluating these players and where their stock is are just as certain with their expectations for Henry as I am. I guess that gives you a good laugh too.

[brandx]

Again, the Harrisons are guards who don't shoot the ball overly well. If you want to compare Henry to a Kentucky guy it is Trey Lyles. They are as close to the same size and skill set as you can possibly find in 2 players. Did Lyles absolutely tear apart the competition every time he stepped onto the court? Nope. He averaged 8 and 5 on the season. Look at those numbers alone and should that kid be leaving early? Heck no! But it's more than just numbers. It's being 6'10" and able to shoot an handle the ball like a guard. And I'd argue Henry does both of those better than Trey. And what's Trey's draft stock looking like? Lottery. The NBA drafts young kids based on potential, not college production.

I'd argue the longer Henry is in college the worse his draft stock will be. Not because he will get worse at basketball, but because he will progress less in college than he could even at the end of an NBA bench and as time passes you have to start producing rather than just falling back on potential.

I don't want to argue your point that the NBA draft is predicated on potential, Wade. I completely agree with you.

But I have to disagree a bit when you talk about a guy like Lyles averaging 8/5. If HE averages 8/5, it will be a very disappointing season. Lyles was playing on a team of numerous future NBA lottery picks so he never had the chance to exploit his individual skills to put up large numbers.

Henry will be playing with a pretty inexperienced group + freshman and I would contend, at most, there may only be one or two future NBA'ers playing alongside of Henry. And certainly no lottery picks.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Since Bo cooled on him... And he doesn't do rent-a-player... Clearly Ellenson is one-and-done

[Silkk the Shaka]

He doesn't have to be a dominant force next year to enter the draft.  If he's 9 and 5 he's a top 15 pick next year.

It'll come down to whether he wants 1 last season playing with his brother.  We will see.

See: Kelly Oubre. #8 RSCI. Averaged 9 & 5 at KU, one & done, lottery for sure.

Could Ellenson be back for year 2? Of course. It's more likely that he's not though.

[MU82]

Again, the Harrisons are guards who don't shoot the ball overly well. If you want to compare Henry to a Kentucky guy it is Trey Lyles. They are as close to the same size and skill set as you can possibly find in 2 players. Did Lyles absolutely tear apart the competition every time he stepped onto the court? Nope. He averaged 8 and 5 on the season. Look at those numbers alone and should that kid be leaving early? Heck no! But it's more than just numbers. It's being 6'10" and able to shoot and handle the ball like a guard. And I'd argue Henry does both of those better than Trey. And what's Trey's draft stock looking like? Lottery. The NBA drafts young kids based on potential, not college production.

I'd argue the longer Henry is in college the worse his draft stock will be. Not because he will get worse at basketball, but because he will progress less in college than he could even at the end of an NBA bench and as time passes you have to start producing rather than just falling back on potential.

People who make a living evaluating these players and where their stock is are just as certain with their expectations for Henry as I am. I guess that gives you a good laugh too.

I agree with pretty much all of this, including your assessment of the Harrisons' ability.

But my point still stands. Although the Harrisons proved to not be good enough to be 1-and-dones, the fact remains that, when they stepped on the court for Wildcat Madness (or whatever they call it) as freshman, the assumption was that they would be 1-and-dones.

And yet they stayed for a second season.

That's all I was saying. I was using a fact. Zero speculation at all.

I can prove my point because it is a fact. It's impossible to "prove" that Henry will be a 1-and-done until he is a 1-and-done.

And sure, I fully allow that I'm hoping Henry stays a second year, because that could be a special second year for Marquette basketball. Henry might see that, too, and might stay partly because of that. Fairy often, college basketball and football players who would be drafted high defy the experts and stay in school -- because they like their college experience. That's especially true for athletes whose families are not destitute and don't need the money immediately.

Will that apply to Henry? Nobody knows. Not me, not you, not NBA scouts and, at this point, not even Henry.

[brandx]

See: Kelly Oubre. #8 RSCI. Averaged 9 & 5 at KU, one & done, lottery for sure.

Could Ellenson be back for year 2? Of course. It's more likely that he's not though.

Again, though, Ellenson will have much more opportunity to put up numbers. Won't have near the cast around him that Lyles and Oubre had.

[wadesworld]

Again, though, Ellenson will have much more opportunity to put up numbers. Won't have near the cast around him that Lyles and Oubre had.

And again, it's not about "What did you do for me in college and who else was on your team in college," it's, "What can you do for me in 3 years and who will be on my team in 3 years" when it comes to the NBA draft.

Giannis played in Greece's B league and scored 8 points per game.  He had plenty of opportunity to shine with that level of competition but he didn't.  He was picked in the top 20 of the draft.

It is not going to come down to "Is Henry good enough to leave early."  It is going to come down to "Does Henry want to stay in school for an extra 1-3 years?"

Zach LaVine was 9 2 and 2 on a good but far from great UCLA team where he had the time to shine but never did.  He was drafted 13th overall.  Mitch McGary didn't play after the first 8 games of the season last year yet he was drafted 20th overall.

Nerlens Noel tore his ACL and was taken 6th overall.  Steven Adams was a 7 and 6 guy an 8th seeded Pitt team and was taken 12th overall.  Giannis at 15.

[brandx]

And again, it's not about "What did you do for me in college and who else was on your team in college," it's, "What can you do for me in 3 years and who will be on my team in 3 years" when it comes to the NBA draft.

Giannis played in Greece's B league and scored 8 points per game.  He had plenty of opportunity to shine with that level of competition but he didn't.  He was picked in the top 20 of the draft.

It is not going to come down to "Is Henry good enough to leave early."  It is going to come down to "Does Henry want to stay in school for an extra 1-3 years?"

Zach LaVine was 9 2 and 2 on a good but far from great UCLA team where he had the time to shine but never did.  He was drafted 13th overall.  Mitch McGary didn't play after the first 8 games of the season last year yet he was drafted 20th overall.

Nerlens Noel tore his ACL and was taken 6th overall.  Steven Adams was a 7 and 6 guy an 8th seeded Pitt team and was taken 12th overall.  Giannis at 15.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, Wade.

I'm just saying that if HE puts up Trey Lyles numbers on next years MU team, then he won't have shown enough potential to leave after one year.

[brewcity77]

The simple reality is until we see Henry here on a regular basis, no one really knows. His numbers mean little. If he puts up 8/5 but shows flashes of dominance, he could be a lottery pick, whereas if he puts up 18/10 but is a step slower than expected and is strictly a below the rim player, he may be a second round or even undrafted guy after his freshman year.

Stats alone won't determine his draft status. If he puts up pedestrian numbers but worth flashes of greatness like Lyles he could be a lottery pick. If he's dominant but in a non athletic, workmanlike fashion like Luke Harangody, the NBA luster will wear off quick. Being a top 10 high school prospect or putting up numbers is all nice, but it'll all come down to how they think he'll develop. And until he's on the court, it's all academic.

[Galway Eagle]

The simple reality is until we see Henry here on a regular basis, no one really knows. His numbers mean little. If he puts up 8/5 but shows flashes of dominance, he could be a lottery pick, whereas if he puts up 18/10 but is a step slower than expected and is strictly a below the rim player, he may be a second round or even undrafted guy after his freshman year.

Stats alone won't determine his draft status. If he puts up pedestrian numbers but worth flashes of greatness like Lyles he could be a lottery pick. If he's dominant but in a non athletic, workmanlike fashion like Luke Harangody, the NBA luster will wear off quick. Being a top 10 high school prospect or putting up numbers is all nice, but it'll all come down to how they think he'll develop. And until he's on the court, it's all academic.

If he has a remotely similar jumping ability to Wally I don't see him being below the rim

[MU82]

See, I don't disagree with wades that the numbers are immaterial if the NBA thinks highly enough about his potential. NBA teams have drafted all kinds of college players with mediocre stats because they are all about potential.

Where wades and I diverge is his insistence that Henry will leave if the NBA comes a'callin'. I doubt wades or anybody else knows how Henry feels about that today, and I am 100% positive that nobody -- including Henry -- knows how Henry will feel about that 8-10 months from now because, well, that time isn't here yet.

Henry might love Marquette so much, and be so excited about what the team can accomplish his sophomore year, and enjoy college life so much, and love playing with his brother so much, and have so much confidence in himself remaining a top prospect, that he might say, "The NBA can wait; I want to do something special at Marquette." That wouldn't be an unprecedented move -- many basketball and football players have made that exact decision over the years.

Obviously, I don't know that he will decide to come back for those reasons and others ... but the nice thing is I don't pretend to know it, either.

I just wish the "I'm sure Henry is 1-and-done" folks didn't express themselves with such certainty. Because they don't know.

[brewcity77]

If he has a remotely similar jumping ability to Wally I don't see him being below the rim

I have no idea how his career goes. All I know is I'd rather actually watch it than get worked up over what may or may not happen in the next 1-4 years.

[Galway Eagle]

I have no idea how his career goes. All I know is I'd rather actually watch it than get worked up over what may or may not happen in the next 1-4 years.

Oh I completely agree. Just hard to imagine someone with those genes being below the rim

[Class71]

Why does anyone care?

[wadesworld]

Why does anyone care?

Because he's the most hyped recruit to commit to Marquette in this generation? I don't know. Yeah, nevermind, let's not discuss Henry...uhh...who? Can't even remember the kid's last name.

[Lennys Tap]

Because he's the most hyped recruit to commit to Marquette in this generation? I don't know. Yeah, nevermind, let's not discuss Henry...uhh...who? Can't even remember the kid's last name.

Yeah, let's not talk about Henry. Let's talk Derrick.

[4everwarriors]

Who?

[KenoshaWarrior]

One and Done's are a crapshoot. You just never know. Take for example:

The Proclaimers - I'm going to be (500 miles)

These guys had it all. We are talking, scottish accents, enviably amazing dorky looks, and they were twins to boot. I expected them next to Bono and U2. One and Done. Who would've thunk it?

Paul Hogan - Crocodile Dundee

This guy was destined to catapult himself into, and subsequently remain orbiting, Hollywood's greatest inner circles. He had the looks, an accent to die for, and an uncanny ability to deliver cheesy lines with exquisite precision. I expected 20 more variations of the Dundee with Mr. Hogan leading the way. Instead. One and Done. Who would've thunk it?

Jeremy Lin of NY Knicks Fame.

Need I say more than Linsanity? One and Done.

That chick from the Yellow Pages Tattoo Removal Commercial.

Whoa, nellie. Can you say the next Cindy Crawford Pepsi commercial? But, noooooooo. One and Done.

In sum, all this discussion about whether Ellenson will go pro after next year, or play four, just reminds me how freaking amazing Crocodile Dundee was and how many times I watched one commercial over and over on a loop.

I remember that yellow page add chick. SMOKE SHOW!!!!!!   Anyone know what happened to her?   Is she back with Mike?