Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff

[Warrior Code]

My top college choices were Marquette, Illinois, and Iowa. I visited Iowa and MU. I chose MU after visiting without even visiting Illinois. That doesn't mean I wasn't seriously considering the other schools, just that I found one I liked and decided to end the process and commit. I suspect it happens to a lot of kids when picking a school. If I had visited Illinois first, I may have gone there. Who knows.


P.S. Iowa was my safety school but I just happened to visit there first. I doubt we were either guy's safety school.

[brewcity77]

Quite the opposite ...

The guy with inside info said:

* Lee committed to coming on a visit.  He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU.  They should have been
* list three different plans.  They did not make 8 days.

The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.  


Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"

Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners

First, things change. Maybe the staff wasn't worried and was assured Lee would come regardless of what happened in Louisville. Then he changed his mind. It happens. You move on and go to plan B.

Second, not everyone reads things the same. I know I'm not alone in being rather surprised when BD mentioned JUCOs as the "Plan B" to Miller and Lee. So maybe something was lost in translation. Remember, coaches aren't supposed to talk about potential recruits, so there could have been a simple misunderstanding.

It could mean BD got bad info or he just misread what he thought he heard. Regardless, it goes to show that it's probably best to retain a bit of skepticism on any info you get.

[source?]

This board reminds me of this bipolar girl I dated once. I once grabbed her a coke zero instead of a diet coke and she went into full on meltdown mode.

[wadesworld]

Quite the opposite ...

The guy with inside info said:

* Lee committed to coming on a visit.  He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU.  They should have been
* list three different plans.  They did not make 8 days.

The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.  


Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"

Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners

He got nothing wrong.  You just don't know how to read, comprehend, and think rationally.

[DUNKS45]

This board reminds me of this bipolar girl I dated once. Grab her a coke zero instead of a diet coke and she went into full on meltdown.

I hope here name wasn't Cybil...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Quite the opposite ...

The guy with inside info said:

* Lee committed to coming on a visit.  He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU.  They should have been
* list three different plans.  They did not make 8 days.

The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.  


Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"

Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners

If this is how you feel, then name the thread "Why I have concerns about Big Daddy's Info" or just make some comments in Big Daddy's original thread. Don't frame it as concern that our coaching staff is incompetent.

[source?]

I hope here name wasn't Cybil...

Nope, Jessica Heisenb...wait a minute!

[Tugg Speedman]

He got nothing wrong.  You just don't know how to read, comprehend, and think rationally.

If this is how you feel, then name the thread "Why I have concerns about Big Daddy's Info" or just make some comments in Big Daddy's original thread. Don't frame it as concern that our coaching staff is incompetent.

That was/is my question.  Did the coaching staff misjudge Lee/Miller or did BD get it wrong?

[GGGG]

That was/is my question.  Did the coaching staff misjudge Lee/Miller or did BD get it wrong?

Or did Lee and/or Miller change their minds.

[Tugg Speedman]

Or did Lee and/or Miller change their minds.

Then the coaching staff should have anticipated this might have happened and not been "unconcerned" about other visits, pressed harder for a visit to MU and not been giving BD "plans" for events that might not have happened.

[GGGG]

Then the coaching staff should have anticipated this might have happened and not been "unconcerned" about other visits, pressed harder for a visit to MU and not been giving BD "plans" for events that might not have happened.

Stop.  This contrarion for the sake of one is just tiring.

Inside information isn't perfect.  It certainly isn't complete.  They were targetting Lee and Miller.  I'm sure they pressed hard for visits in both cases.  Those weren't the only people they were talking to.

Creating controversies where none exist.

[brewcity77]

Then the coaching staff should have anticipated this might have happened and not been "unconcerned" about other visits, pressed harder for a visit to MU and not been giving BD "plans" for events that might not have happened.

How do you know they didn't anticipate this? Here's what BD said: "They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting."

They expected a visit. Didn't guarantee it, didn't have it set in stone, and weren't overly concerned he might commit before visiting here. But what does that mean? Maybe they weren't overly concerned because they viewed him as a luxury, something they'd like but didn't need.

Either way, it sounds like they had contingency plans. BD said "Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco  plan 2 - two Jucos." Presumably, that should have been "plan 3 - two Jucos", but regardless, there were other plans in case they lost both (which they did).

The staff had plan 1 & 2, they didn't work, so we're left with them pursuing their alternate plans, which based on BD's post were already in place, so really, this just doesn't seem like something worth worrying over.

[NotAnAlum]

I think its reasonable to have to some concerns and questions about the current situation but it would have nothing to do with what Big Daddy said or meant.  There has been more churning of the roster that I would have expected since Wojo took over.  That has left us a little low on players.  If Levin, Burton and STJ were still on the team and everyone was talking about how much progress they'd made since Wojo took over we'd be feeling pretty good about Wojo as coach, our prospects next year and returning to winning.  But they're not and so we're left scrambling trying to patch up the roster.  Next year if Traci comes in and plays like Dominic as a freshman, Fisher, JJJ and Duane are much improved and Henry plays like a 5 star we'll be very competitive and Wojo is going to look like he had it under control all the time.  Then we be pretty certain we got the right guy and we can start worrying about someone trying to steal Wojo away.  So whether Wojo was able to get Lee or not to patch the roster for one more year is really a lot less important than what happens to these other guys.  Next Spring we'll know a lot more about what really will determine our long term success.

[brewcity77]

If the plan was to add immediately eligible grad transfers and they missed the first two they went after, that's hardly much cause for concern. I hope we have more than 10 scholarship players come November, but it's not November. As wades has said repeatedly... R-E-L-A-X

[Tugg Speedman]

Either way, it sounds like they had contingency plans. BD said "Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco  plan 2 - two Jucos." Presumably, that should have been "plan 3 - two Jucos", but regardless, there were other plans in case they lost both (which they did).

You sure about this?  You wrote on the previous page they spent the last week recruiting HS players.  Additionally TAMU, another person that seems to have "inside" info, seems to be "throwing ideas on the wall" suggesting their is not plan.  Further TAMU disagrees with Big Daddy about the importance of JUCOs (BD says they are looking at JUCOs, TAMU says they are really not, save 2 or 3 guys at most)

That leaves us with two options.  Either they don't have a plan or all the "insiders" that post here really know nothing.

Finally, Big Daddy wrote Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May  That's a little more certain and why I found it so concerning.

Frankly, if BD never posted I would have given this a second thought.  It's BD post that got me asking.

[brewcity77]

I know they have contacted other graduate transfers and had done so before Lee and Miller committed elsewhere.

I also know there were a lot of JUCOs they had contacted back in November, December, and January. I don't know where those relationships are at now.

The past week they were out watching HS kids. McKinley Wright, a 2017 prospect in Minnesota, as well as this weekend they are out watching AAU (this is one of two periods in April coaches are allowed to watch). That says nothing to the phone calls that have been going on or behind the scenes things.

I have no doubt there are still graduate transfers still in play. But the guys they are after mostly seem to be the guys that announced their decisions later, mid-April or so. Those guys haven't yet scheduled other visits or listed favorites. Until that starts to leak out, there's only so much information anyone can give you.

[Tugg Speedman]

I know they have contacted other graduate transfers and had done so before Lee and Miller committed elsewhere.

I also know there were a lot of JUCOs they had contacted back in November, December, and January. I don't know where those relationships are at now.

The past week they were out watching HS kids. McKinley Wright, a 2017 prospect in Minnesota, as well as this weekend they are out watching AAU (this is one of two periods in April coaches are allowed to watch). That says nothing to the phone calls that have been going on or behind the scenes things.

I have no doubt there are still graduate transfers still in play. But the guys they are after mostly seem to be the guys that announced their decisions later, mid-April or so. Those guys haven't yet scheduled other visits or listed favorites. Until that starts to leak out, there's only so much information anyone can give you.

I hope you're right.  With three open schollies and the highly rated young talent coming in, MU can stand to benefit from a couple of solid, experienced grad transfers, probably more than any other team in the country.

That's way this year the grad transfer can be critical to MU.

[BallBoy]

That was/is my question.  Did the coaching staff misjudge Lee/Miller or did BD get it wrong?

Here is what I took from Big Daddy's info. Marquette went out and look at HS players, jucos and grad transfers. Based on what was out there and the remaining players that had MU interest they setup the following plan.

1.  Miller and lee
2.  Miller or lee and Juco
3.  Juco targets
4.  Bank scholarship
5.  High school player

Unfortunately, they are onto plan 3 or 4 but that is what happens.  Does it concern me that they didn't get the top two options. No becausethey have limited control.

[muwarrior69]

This is what this thread is about ... I read Big Daddy's post and he said ...

3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and  there is mutual interest and communication.  They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.

4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.

5) After that the top targets are two JUCO players.  Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco  plan 3 - two Jucos.  We are not heavily recruiting any other HS seniors.

Yes I got excited reading all this because I believed BD "knows."  None of it has happened and it only took 8 days for it to fall apart.

So maybe you should be more concerned about taking as gospel what folks say here than Wojo and the coaching staff. What short memories we have when we all thought it was a DONEDEAL.

[Tugg Speedman]

So maybe you should be more concerned about taking as gospel what folks say here than Wojo and the coaching staff. What short memories we have when we all thought it was a DONEDEAL.

Not just me ... see the post "Program Update"

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=47378.0

Big Daddy wrote it and then we have three pages of posts of thanking him for the inside info and getting exited about the prospects that Lee might be headed to MU merely because of what BD said.

Than when I note BD got it all wrong, and ask if this is due to the coaches misreading the situation and then (in a later post) asking if BD got it wrong, I'm the guy that needs to R-E-L-A-X and making a mountain out of a molehill.  Further see the posts above and marvel how posters are tying themselves into knots "interpreting" with BD said so they can conclude he is still an insider and everything he wrote was perfectly correct.

Again ... if we assume that Big Daddy talks to the coaches directly, then I think it is fair to ask what happened?  Did the coaches misread Lee interest in MU to the point they were not worried about the other schools and made someone that was not coming their "plan #1."  Or did Big Daddy embellish a little too much and needless got people around here excited?

[The Equalizer]

When you plan, that means one of these options is going to happen.  Plan 1 is supposed to be the most likely, #2 next most likely.  They were not goals, or ideals or scenarios, they were plans.

Maybe if you're Mike Deane.

Really, I think you need a better understanding on the difference between "likely" and "preference".  

Plan A is the guy you most prefer--not the guy you're most likely to get.  

In fact, Plan A is probably the guy you're LEAST likely to land, because you're going to be going up against the likes of Arizona, Louisville or UConn.

Again, what I'm assuming is BD accurately and correctly conveyed what the coaches are thinking.  Because if he did, I'm concerned that the coaches are busy making plans that are not happening.  Put bluntly, they are not sizing up situations properly.

I'd be far more concerned if he took a pass on the likes of Lee and Miller, simply on the basis that lesser recruits were more likely to commit.

Sounds like what you wanted is for Wojo to not even try for the better players, and make low-level talent his top priority--all so he can claim he got the guy who he first went after.

[Tugg Speedman]

MUWarrior69 ... see the post immediately above.  See how people tie themselves into knots and the lengths they do to say I'm making a mountain out of molehill.  All these people could get jobs in corporate or political communications telling you that obvious statements don't mean what they say.

Then go look at the "Program Update" post that Big Daddy started and tell me who said they were making a mountain out of molehill that Lee was coming to MU.  Quite the opposite they were breathlessly getting themselves worked into a frenzy.  

[Dawson Rental]

Big Daddy wrote ...

3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and  there is mutual interest and communication.  They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.

I'm not concerned that we lost DL.  I'm concerned how we lost him.  It is apparent that we were never really an option for him.  He did not come for a visit.  We were probably his safety school.

What is concerning is what BD said above.  The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option.  They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that.  Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened.  At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.

Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option.  Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.

Should we be concerned that the coaching staff is having a hard time gauging interest?  If so, does this matter?  Tell me where I'm wrong.

Great post, because as is now obvious to everyone, Wojo's ability to recruit is in serious question.

[79Warrior]

Stop.  This contrarion for the sake of one is just tiring.

Inside information isn't perfect.  It certainly isn't complete.  They were targetting Lee and Miller.  I'm sure they pressed hard for visits in both cases.  Those weren't the only people they were talking to.

Creating controversies where none exist.

Is this Ners or his brother going on and on about this BS. Lee went another direction. Happens all the time. Zona thought they had him locked up. Heisenbutt needs to grab a beer and calm down.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Finally, Big Daddy wrote Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May  That's a little more certain and why I found it so concerning.

So you've never committed to anything and backed out or changed your mind?  That's very easily what could have happened with Lee.  It's that simple.