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Author Topic: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff  (Read 46744 times)

bilsu

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2015, 08:21:46 AM »
I would not be concern over missing out on end of season transfers. They are like gifts you were not planning on. You go after them and hope. What would concern me is missing out on November signees. Those are the players that hurt, because there are other good recruits you are losing, because you targeted your efforts on the players you lost.

jsglow

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2015, 08:24:20 AM »
Relax Heisenberg.  Not to rub salt in the wound but how many recruits had Wisconsin as a second or third choice?  I'd take their level of success.  Lee was blown away by his visit to a top tier program.  As many said, if he had left both Arizona and Louisville without committing then we had a real shot.  And I'll trust Wojo knows exactly where's he at.

Gato78

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2015, 08:32:56 AM »
Did the Arizona staff make the same mistake? Come on. As one staff member said to me: "He is a Hall of Fame coach. Not surprised."

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2015, 08:39:48 AM »
Did the Arizona staff make the same mistake? Come on. As one staff member said to me: "He is a Hall of Fame coach. Not surprised."

We described Lee as our number 1 option while he was about to board a plane to AZ and Louisville.  You don't see a concern?

tower912

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2015, 08:45:20 AM »
No.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

bilsu

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2015, 08:50:31 AM »
We described Lee as our number 1 option while he was about to board a plane to AZ and Louisville.  You don't see a concern?
No, because all that means was he was our first choice at that time. Wojo has lost out on a lot of number one options, most of which we never hear about, because they quickly say they are not interested.

Daniel

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2015, 08:55:23 AM »
We described Lee as our number 1 option while he was about to board a plane to AZ and Louisville.  You don't see a concern?

No.  If a target is the #1 target of multiple schools, then only one wins. Why not go after the big ones?  A one year head coach brining in a top 10 recruiting class to Marquette - no.  Not concerned. If we flop on 2016 recruits I will be somewhat concerned.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Why I'm Concenred About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2015, 08:57:24 AM »
Right now Marquette has 10 scholarship athletes with 7 either freshmen or sophomores and no seniors.  I can understand where a grad transfer would be apprehensive of joining a youthful team where he would not only have to try to fit in, but also become possibly the team leader.

I'm fine with going with these 10 players for next year, although I'd like to see an 11th player for depth and some experience.

I think going with 10 would represent a failure.  Even last year Wojo filled out all available schollies with Gabe Levin and Todd Mayo.  Then they left opening up spots.

Going with 10 means no grad transfer could be found.  Even a bad one just to have bodies for practice.  Grad transfers do not take a spot for next year's HS recruiting, so they represent little downside.  Yes, you can keep one open spot in case a mid-season transfer appears, like Luke, but not three.

Never ever ever (did I say ever?) bank a schollie, each one banked represents a failure.

Big Daddy also said ...

2) STJ is not coming back to the program.  I know there has been some speculation on that, but as it was said to me "that door is closed".

And then this ...

Chicago Hoops @ChicagoHoops  ·  15h 15 hours ago
Former Simeon star Steve Taylor, a Marquette transfer, also on UIC radar screen.

Since much of what was told to Big Daddy has not panned out. maybe the STj talk is wrong too and they can talk him into returning.  Unfortunately he seems to be the best option right now.

tower912

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2015, 09:33:29 AM »
Why I am concerned about Wojo/Coaching staff.    I don't know if they are going to be able to build the program.    That would be my concern about whomever was hired.   Do they have the chops to take MU to final 4's?    Crean did, but couldn't sustain it.   Buzz came close.    Can Wojo, who has never been in the big chair, surrounded by friends and a former HC who wasn't all that successful, grow and evolve into a better coach than Crean or Buzz?    I don't know and I am not yet convinced.     Losing out on a couple of graduate transfers doesn't move the dial for me one way or the other.   I thought Wojo squeezed everything he had out of last year's roster.    What I see on the floor this coming year, as well as the 2016 recruiting class are what I am paying attention to now.   Quality graduate transfers?    Sausage gravy on the omelette.   Not what I am basing my assessment on. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

79Warrior

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Re: Why I'm Concenred About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2015, 09:42:20 AM »


Big Daddy also said ...

2) STJ is not coming back to the program.  I know there has been some speculation on that, but as it was said to me "that door is closed".

And then this ...

Chicago Hoops @ChicagoHoops  ·  15h 15 hours ago
Former Simeon star Steve Taylor, a Marquette transfer, also on UIC radar screen.

Since much of what was told to Big Daddy has not panned out. maybe the STj talk is wrong too and they can talk him into returning.  Unfortunately he seems to be the best option right now.
[/quote]

What is incorrect about BD's STJ comment? Is he not transferring?????

wadesworld

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2015, 10:09:21 AM »
Heisenberg = Kenoshawarrior.

Take a puff of the inhaler. It'll be alright.
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tower912

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2015, 10:13:08 AM »
Heisenberg = Kenoshawarrior.

Take a puff of the inhaler. It'll be alright.

I would have said Heisenberg = Chicos when it comes to trying to create mountains out of molehills. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Boone

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2015, 10:22:06 AM »
Going into next season w/only 10 players wouldn't be so bad if we had legitimate depth at all positions...but we don't. Frontcourt insurance is a must, as I don't see  Heldt being ready for rotation minutes. Hope Wojo had a realistic contingency plan.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2015, 10:25:22 AM »
I would have said Heisenberg = Chicos when it comes to trying to create mountains out of molehills


TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 10:30:59 AM »
This thread is hilarious.

1) We were a legitimate option for Lee. Had a strong relationship with one of our assistants, one who had recruited him straight out of high school. We were selling relationships and fit, Louisville was selling all that blue bloods have to offer. Sometimes, relationships and fit can beat out the blue bloods. Henry and Malik Newman are examples of this. Sometimes they don't. Lee got blown away by Louisville on his visit. He wasn't the first, he won't be the last.

2) From what I had heard, Miller was down to MU and UConn. He visited UConn first and was similarly blown away. I wouldn't count him out either. Coach is definitely watching this Ollie to OKC situation very closely.

3) Steve is gone. That door is closed.

4) From what I have heard, staff has reached out to Durand Johnson and Thomasz Gielo. Not sure about the level of interest, but there are plans in place.

5) No poster word should ever be taken as gospel. Not even Big Daddy's. Every poster and every so called source puts their own slant and speculation on information they hear

6) I don't believe JUCOs are truly an option

7) *nod to wadesworld* R-E-L-A-X
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Tugg Speedman

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2015, 10:36:44 AM »
This thread is hilarious.
5) No poster word should ever be taken as gospel. Not even Big Daddy's. Every poster and every so called source puts their own slant and speculation on information they hear

This is what this thread is about ... I read Big Daddy's post and he said ...

3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and  there is mutual interest and communication.  They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.

4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.

5) After that the top targets are two JUCO players.  Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco  plan 3 - two Jucos.  We are not heavily recruiting any other HS seniors.


Yes I got excited reading all this because I believed BD "knows."  None of it has happened and it only took 8 days for it to fall apart.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2015, 10:48:24 AM »
In recruiting plan=goal.  So goal #1 was Lee and Miller.  Didn't pan out; it happens.  Goal #2 was either Lee or Miller.  Hasn't happened but like TAMU said keep an eye on OKC and Ollie.  So what's wrong with these goals?

I suppose Wojo could target only sure things, but I'd rather he go after the best realistic targets than crappy players who are "sure things" to ride on the end of the bench.

Fun fact: the 2003 Final Four team only had 10 scholarship players and one senior, three juniors, two sophomores, and four freshman.  Next year's roster currently has 10 players with five freshmen, two sophomores, three juniors and no seniors.  Not saying #Houston is a #donedeal; just something that occurred to my me.

tower912

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2015, 10:50:23 AM »
This is what this thread is about ... I read Big Daddy's post and he said ...

3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and  there is mutual interest and communication.  They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.

4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.

5) After that the top targets are two JUCO players.  Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco  plan 3 - two Jucos.  We are not heavily recruiting any other HS seniors.


Yes I got excited reading all this because I believed BD "knows."  None of it has happened and it only took 8 days for it to fall apart.
And I am still not seeing the reason for the angst.   Coaches and programs miss on recruits all of the time.  Every time somebody commits, 4 programs missed.   Two high level graduate transfers chose blue bloods.   Meh. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

brewcity77

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2015, 11:30:22 AM »
2) From what I had heard, Miller was down to MU and UConn. He visited UConn first and was similarly blown away. I wouldn't count him out either. Coach is definitely watching this Ollie to OKC situation very closely.

6) I don't believe JUCOs are truly an option

Thoughts on these two...

2) Unless Donovan says no to OKC, it looks like Ollie is off the table. Took himself out of consideration, likely to save face so he doesn't look like a runner-up to Billy D. Not saying Miller is an impossibility, but I think it's best to consider him to be a lost cause. Next man up.

6) Any JUCO taken would have to be a perfect fit. If there are JUCOs on the table, I have to think they've already been thoroughly vetted by the staff, but then moved to the back burner because I do think JUCOs are an "in case of emergency" situation only. As far as I've heard, the staff hasn't been out to see any JUCOs in months. Did they build strong enough relationships back in December and January to secure a late commitment? I'm skeptical as well. Definitely seems unlikely that any of the top JUCOs would still be seriously looking at Marquette considering guys like Outlaw are getting a ton of interest and attention from other high majors.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2015, 11:42:35 AM »
In recruiting plan=goal.  So goal #1 was Lee and Miller.  Didn't pan out; it happens.  Goal #2 was either Lee or Miller.  Hasn't happened but like TAMU said keep an eye on OKC and Ollie.  So what's wrong with these goals?

I suppose Wojo could target only sure things, but I'd rather he go after the best realistic targets than crappy players who are "sure things" to ride on the end of the bench.

Fun fact: the 2003 Final Four team only had 10 scholarship players and one senior, three juniors, two sophomores, and four freshman.  Next year's roster currently has 10 players with five freshmen, two sophomores, three juniors and no seniors.  Not saying #Houston is a #donedeal; just something that occurred to my me.

Both lead by a second year two guard that couldn't play their freshman year with the initials D.W. and the first name being pronounced the same. Oh my God Houston's a done deal!
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jesmu84

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2015, 12:29:56 PM »
Big Daddy wrote ...

3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and  there is mutual interest and communication.  They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.


I'm not concerned that we lost DL.  I'm concerned how we lost him.  It is apparent that we were never really an option for him.  He did not come for a visit.  We were probably his safety school.

What is concerning is what BD said above.  The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option.  They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that.  Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened.  At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.

Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option.  Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.

Should we be concerned that the coaching staff is having a hard time gauging interest?  If so, does this matter?  Tell me where I'm wrong.

A lot of wrong here. Just because a player didn't commit doesn't mean they didn't have interest. It also doesn't mean MU didn't have a chance. Unless you have some inside knowledge from our coaching staff or either of these recruits, you're just speculating a whole lot without any real information.

77ncaachamps

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2015, 12:39:45 PM »
I'm concerned that you're stressing about a player with one year of eligibility.
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mu-rara

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2015, 12:43:26 PM »
It is idiotic posts like this that chase off valuable posters.  You can speculate about a lot of posters info. 

Big Daddy is gold.

Heisenberg = Ners.

VegasWarrior77

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2015, 12:49:40 PM »
Heisenberg = Kenoshawarrior.

Take a puff of the inhaler. It'll be alright.

We could use a legitimate "It's Happening!" gif one of these days!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2015, 12:51:52 PM »
A lot of wrong here. Just because a player didn't commit doesn't mean they didn't have interest. It also doesn't mean MU didn't have a chance. Unless you have some inside knowledge from our coaching staff or either of these recruits, you're just speculating a whole lot without any real information.

Quite the opposite ...

The guy with inside info said:

* Lee committed to coming on a visit.  He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU.  They should have been
* list three different plans.  They did not make 8 days.

The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.  


Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"

Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners