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Author Topic: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area  (Read 12894 times)

Benny B

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Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« on: April 17, 2015, 10:15:41 AM »
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-09/sports/ct-golf-sand-valley-spt-0110-20140110_1_kempersports-josh-lesnik-pacific-dunes

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/sand-valley-on-course-to-become-true-american-beauty-b99370835z1-279227112.html

Obviously, this isn't recent news or anything, but I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are here.  On the one hand, it seems like an odd place for an international golf destination, but on the other hand, it actually makes a lot of sense given the natural topography, proximity to Kohler, availability of upper-tier lodging nearby (Wis Dells is less than 30 minutes away).
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

mu-rara

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 10:31:43 AM »
They are going to capitalize on WI becoming a destination golf area.  Golfers coming from all over the world and spending a week traveling to Whistling Straits, The Bull, Sand Valley, Erin Hills, etc.

I've golfed Whistling Straits twice and talked with people from Atlanta, Great Britain and Japan. 

keefe

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 10:33:43 AM »
Minimalist? That just seems silly. Hitting off a mat isn't golf; I did that in Saudi and it wasn't fun.

I understand WI bills itself as a golf destination but other than Black Wolf Run (which is excellent) I am not familiar with any other world class courses. And the season in WI is far too short and even then, the unpredictable weather makes golfing problematic.

On the west coast I would put the Monterey Peninsula then Bandon Dunes well ahead of the Kohler complex for a distinctive golf experience. From what I read of Sand Valley I would likely give it a miss.


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keefe

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 10:35:21 AM »
availability of upper-tier lodging nearby (Wis Dells is less than 30 minutes away).

Don't forget one can ride the Ducks and take in the Tommy Bartlett water show!


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GGGG

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 11:01:12 AM »
They are going to capitalize on WI becoming a destination golf area.  Golfers coming from all over the world and spending a week traveling to Whistling Straits, The Bull, Sand Valley, Erin Hills, etc.

I've golfed Whistling Straits twice and talked with people from Atlanta, Great Britain and Japan. 


I have my doubts.

Whistling Straights is 15 miles from the Bull and 70 miles from Erin Hills.  An easy drive from MKE or ORD if you are planning an extended stay.  Furthermore, since I doubt any course can exist simply as a travel destination, all three are located within 150 miles or so of about 12 million people.

Wisconsin Rapids is nowhere near these three places and is located in the middle of nowhere.  Furthermore, it isn't likely going to feed off of the relative proximity of those courses, but get canabalized by them. 

Litehouse

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 12:26:15 PM »
Kohler is trying to build a new course also, so that would be 6 top notch courses in Sheboygan (new course, Straits, Irish, River, Meadow, Bull).  Throw in Erin Hills and the other courses around Milwaukee, and there's no reason to go all the way to WI Rapids.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 12:41:33 PM »
Courses have to be within a certain distance of an airport (at least mid-tier ).  When Eagle Ridge in Galena built the General, It was for PGA events, but then dubuque's airport got downgraded and the PGA said sorry, not a close enough airport for ya.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 01:20:34 PM »
We have a cabin right in that area .. there is a whole lot of nothing there.  From the middle of the development, it'd take 20 minutes to drive to Wisc Rapids, which is a typical up-north city with your Walmart and Perkins.  Very few hotels.  At one point a few years ago, literally half of all lake homes in the area was for sale.

I mean, good for them, making those courses out of nothing.  Not sure who is going to buy homes /not/ on a lake up there, but I'm pleased it'll spur retail/restaurants in the area.

mu-rara

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 01:48:15 PM »
Courses have to be within a certain distance of an airport (at least mid-tier ).  When Eagle Ridge in Galena built the General, It was for PGA events, but then dubuque's airport got downgraded and the PGA said sorry, not a close enough airport for ya.
Erin Hills?

mu-rara

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 02:03:52 PM »
If Golf Magazine give this course high ratings, they will come.  Golf Magazine reviews drive all of this.  Herb Kohler knew that.  The guy developing Sand Valley developed Bandon Dunes.  He knows the game. 

If a group of high rollers comes to Wisconsin for a week of golf it will be no biggy to get to Wisconsin Rapids.  Golfers are always looking for the new, bright, shiny golf course.     


Benny B

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 02:20:43 PM »
On the west coast I would put the Monterey Peninsula then Bandon Dunes well ahead of the Kohler complex for a distinctive golf experience. From what I read of Sand Valley I would likely give it a miss.

You realize that the developer who built Bandon Dunes is developing Sand Hills, right?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM »
Erin Hills?

Close enough to milwaukee.

keefe

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 04:57:51 AM »
You realize that the developer who built Bandon Dunes is developing Sand Hills, right?

Sure, but the same band that did Workingman's Dead and American Beauty later did Go to Heaven. Go figure.



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GGGG

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 08:20:20 AM »
If Golf Magazine give this course high ratings, they will come.  Golf Magazine reviews drive all of this.  Herb Kohler knew that.  The guy developing Sand Valley developed Bandon Dunes.  He knows the game. 

If a group of high rollers comes to Wisconsin for a week of golf it will be no biggy to get to Wisconsin Rapids.  Golfers are always looking for the new, bright, shiny golf course.     





I just don't think you can make this work *only* getting golf destinations types.  Especially in the long run.

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2015, 07:28:29 PM »
First I've heard of it, sounds like a cool idea, really unique

Benny B

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2015, 09:52:07 PM »


I just don't think you can make this work *only* getting golf destinations types.  Especially in the long run.

Depends on the basis of your investment, I bet.  A couple thousand of acres of land in central Wisconsin is a heck of a lot cheaper than a hundred of acres of anything adjacent to a major metro area.   Not to mention, the natural topography, i.e. sand and non-native species, evidently requires much less work/expense to move around.

Say the guy can build this thing at a quarter of what it cost Herb to build BWR... lots of cushion for competition and variability in attendance figures there.  Who knows... maybe the operating, not the startup, costs are the beast.  Interesting to see how this plays out.

Rumor is Aaron Rodgers is involved here somehow, too. 
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2015, 10:32:10 PM »
Depends on the basis of your investment, I bet.  A couple thousand of acres of land in central Wisconsin is a heck of a lot cheaper than a hundred of acres of anything adjacent to a major metro area.   Not to mention, the natural topography, i.e. sand and non-native species, evidently requires much less work/expense to move around.

Say the guy can build this thing at a quarter of what it cost Herb to build BWR... lots of cushion for competition and variability in attendance figures there.  Who knows... maybe the operating, not the startup, costs are the beast.  Interesting to see how this plays out.

Rumor is Aaron Rodgers is involved here somehow, too. 

I'm no engineer/contractor (yes, I am), but without any actual knowledge of the project and just judging by the equipment in the pictures, they're not doing crap in terms of earthwork. Equipment is way too small for a golf course development, so I think you're on to something here.

Herb on the other hand spent a lot of money in the development of WS, not sure about BWR. A lot.


WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2015, 11:02:51 PM »
High end golfers are not going to be riding the ducks after a round. They will be looking for a high end watering hole and meal.

mu-rara

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 08:00:34 AM »
I'm no engineer/contractor (yes, I am), but without any actual knowledge of the project and just judging by the equipment in the pictures, they're not doing crap in terms of earthwork. Equipment is way too small for a golf course development, so I think you're on to something here.

Herb on the other hand spent a lot of money in the development of WS, not sure about BWR. A lot.


  I think this is going to be a natural course, not a lot of earth moving around.  Not sure I remember this in detail, but wasn't there a lot of news about how little dirt had to be moved at WS.  I know that Erin Hills had to move dirt for 1? hole.

keefe

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 11:43:03 AM »
High end golfers are not going to be riding the ducks after a round. They will be looking for a high end watering hole and meal.

Precisely my point. There is a reason the courses on the Monterey Peninsula are must-play destinations. Carmel is a perfect place to take the sting out of the bruises one takes playing Spyglass. In central WI you can ride the ducks.


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Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 11:53:06 AM »
Depends on the basis of your investment, I bet.  A couple thousand of acres of land in central Wisconsin is a heck of a lot cheaper than a hundred of acres of anything adjacent to a major metro area.   Not to mention, the natural topography, i.e. sand and non-native species, evidently requires much less work/expense to move around.

Say the guy can build this thing at a quarter of what it cost Herb to build BWR... lots of cushion for competition and variability in attendance figures there.  Who knows... maybe the operating, not the startup, costs are the beast.  Interesting to see how this plays out.

Rumor is Aaron Rodgers is involved here somehow, too. 

It's a fair point about the initial investment, but from a high level, the maintenance costs of an elite facility are inevitably going to be similar. There will be some variance for the actual course needs, equipment, and labor, but still, in the big picture, it's not like the ongoing costs are going to be 50% less than Whistling Straits.

In the 90's, I know the business model was really to "break even" on the golf course, but get rich selling the real estate for homes around the course. Maybe that's where they are heading with this. Get rich on the resorts, not the course.

Benny B

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 03:22:10 PM »
Where do people golfing Bandon Dunes go after a round?  Eugene?  They may not have the Ducks (the boats, not the university), but they sure as heck don't have much else.  Nevertheless, I don't know who's been to the Dells lately, but it seems they have more than their share of high-end hotel rooms and dining options.  Geez... you can't get a room at the Kalahari for less than $490/night on a weekend in June, and some of their villas are going to set you back over two large.  I can't even imagine what a Saturday night goes for in July or early August... no thanks.

But then there's the accessibility... BD is 90 minutes from I-5 and OTH (45 minutes) has direct flights to PDX, SFO, and DEN.  Next closest regional is EUG (3 hours) and international PDX (5 hours).

Closest regional to Sand Valley is CWA (50 minutes) and has direct flights to ORD, MSP and DTW.  That's pretty much a wash right there.  But then consider next closest regional, ATW, adds a direct flight option to ATL, is 90 minutes away, and perfect for those catching a round at BWR on day 1, SV day 2 and EH day 3.  Then you have MSN which is also 90 minutes away and also gets you direct to EWR, LGA, DCA, SLC, DFW, and DEN.

I'm not sure what the greater plan is here, but frankly, I see a lot of people flying into MKE, driving up to Kohler for a few days (maybe a warm-up at the Bog on the way), over to Sand Valley (maybe hitting Sentry and/or Lawsonia on the way), maybe one of the Dells courses or University Ridge, possibly one or both Geneva Courses and finishing off at Erin Hills.  Regardless, if your main stops are Kohler, SV and EH, that's a pretty decent week right there... add some other waypoints and you could make it 10 or 14 days easy.  Point is... the more I think about it, I don't think people on a destination golf trip are going to be spending more than a night in the Dells, if at all, once they build lodging near SV (and maybe even if they don't).  If they bring their families along, sure?

It definitely seems like a "build it and they will come" proposition.  I see how it makes a lot of sense on paper... it will be interesting to see if they can execute.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

keefe

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 07:14:25 PM »
Where do people golfing Bandon Dunes go after a round?  Eugene?  They may not have the Ducks (the boats, not the university), but they sure as heck don't have much else.  Nevertheless, I don't know who's been to the Dells lately, but it seems they have more than their share of high-end hotel rooms and dining options.  Geez... you can't get a room at the Kalahari for less than $490/night on a weekend in June, and some of their villas are going to set you back over two large.  I can't even imagine what a Saturday night goes for in July or early August... no thanks.

But then there's the accessibility... BD is 90 minutes from I-5 and OTH (45 minutes) has direct flights to PDX, SFO, and DEN.  Next closest regional is EUG (3 hours) and international PDX (5 hours).

Closest regional to Sand Valley is CWA (50 minutes) and has direct flights to ORD, MSP and DTW.  That's pretty much a wash right there.  But then consider next closest regional, ATW, adds a direct flight option to ATL, is 90 minutes away, and perfect for those catching a round at BWR on day 1, SV day 2 and EH day 3.  Then you have MSN which is also 90 minutes away and also gets you direct to EWR, LGA, DCA, SLC, DFW, and DEN.

I'm not sure what the greater plan is here, but frankly, I see a lot of people flying into MKE, driving up to Kohler for a few days (maybe a warm-up at the Bog on the way), over to Sand Valley (maybe hitting Sentry and/or Lawsonia on the way), maybe one of the Dells courses or University Ridge, possibly one or both Geneva Courses and finishing off at Erin Hills.  Regardless, if your main stops are Kohler, SV and EH, that's a pretty decent week right there... add some other waypoints and you could make it 10 or 14 days easy.  Point is... the more I think about it, I don't think people on a destination golf trip are going to be spending more than a night in the Dells, if at all, once they build lodging near SV (and maybe even if they don't).  If they bring their families along, sure?

It definitely seems like a "build it and they will come" proposition.  I see how it makes a lot of sense on paper... it will be interesting to see if they can execute.

I am guessing you have not played Bandon Dunes. You go with 8 guys, rent a house, haul in handfuls of Cubans, cases of IPA and single malt, steaks, salmon, and lots of dungies. Stay 2 nights, play 3 days on one of the world's great links complexes. Feast at night over tales of dragons slain, women conquered, enemies defeated, and incredible golf.

Anything more than the camaraderie of good men, fine food, stellar drink, and a good smoke on a golf outing is unnecessary.   


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ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 09:37:10 PM »
Precisely my point. There is a reason the courses on the Monterey Peninsula are must-play destinations. Carmel is a perfect place to take the sting out of the bruises one takes playing Spyglass. In central WI you can ride the ducks.

Cruisin' Chubbys, bro.

Benny B

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Re: Sand Valley Golf Resort - Wisconsin Rapids/Nekoosa Area
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2015, 02:02:44 PM »
I am guessing you have not played Bandon Dunes. You go with 8 guys, rent a house, haul in handfuls of Cubans, cases of IPA and single malt, steaks, salmon, and lots of dungies. Stay 2 nights, play 3 days on one of the world's great links complexes. Feast at night over tales of dragons slain, women conquered, enemies defeated, and incredible golf.

Anything more than the camaraderie of good men, fine food, stellar drink, and a good smoke on a golf outing is unnecessary.   

So golfing and a Game of Thrones love fest... got it.  Not sure why you couldn't do this in central Wisconsin.  Lots of dragons and women (sometimes both) looking to be conquered there.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

 

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