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Author Topic: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC  (Read 250623 times)

Pakuni

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #575 on: May 28, 2015, 11:01:16 AM »

OK, and this is a transaction that is legal for the County Executive to undertake without having to involve the County Board right?  Or at least that's the presumption?

Watch the County Board file a lawsuit, but my guess is that if it is in the state budget, such a lawsuit will have no standing.

From the JS story:

A source said the Milwaukee County Board would not have a vote on the deal, including the financing piece affecting county taxpayers.
"There may be other County Board reforms that will be part of this package," said one official close to the negotiations.
Milwaukee County Executive Chris Abele — who has generally been quiet about the county's possible role in the deal — has been a key player in putting together the proposal that would centralize control of the key assets. He has been unavailable for comment.
Milwaukee County Board Chairwoman Marina Dimitrijevic said the proposed deal raises a number of red flags.
"We all want to see economic development in Milwaukee, but I have many questions about what appears to be a decision made by the executive in secret to commit taxpayer resources unilaterally," Dimitrijevic said in a statement.

GGGG

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #576 on: May 28, 2015, 11:10:37 AM »
I mean I know that the County Board has been a pain in the ass, but if you are simply going to have the state act with the County Executive to usurp any of its power, I guess I don't see the point of having county boards in the first place.  (Which may or may not be a good idea.)

brandx

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #577 on: May 29, 2015, 07:29:04 PM »
Looks like taxpayers are about to be on the hook for about half of the stadium's cost.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/arena-negotiations-continue-no-deal-imminent-b99508223z1-305192861.html



So, if strictly compared to other NBA arena deals, the Bucks are paying a much higher percentage than most teams.

TedBaxter

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #578 on: May 29, 2015, 08:01:35 PM »
Milwaukee, Milwaukee County and even the state have not had to really contribute to any arena project since the Milwaukee Arena was built in 1950?  The Bradley Center and Kohl Center were basically gifts, so time to pony up people and continue to be a major league state/
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wildbillsb

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #579 on: May 29, 2015, 08:56:18 PM »
Milwaukee, Milwaukee County and even the state have not had to really contribute to any arena project since the Milwaukee Arena was built in 1950?  The Bradley Center and Kohl Center were basically gifts, so time to pony up people and continue to be a major league state/

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TedBaxter

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #580 on: May 30, 2015, 01:21:44 AM »
Is Lambeau or Miller Park an arena? 

Wisconsin has an NBA franchise and since the Bucks inception 47 year ago, the city, county and state have had minimal financial responsibilities.
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Newsdreams

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #581 on: May 30, 2015, 06:24:59 PM »
Plus every time the Bucks are on TV and the city of Milwaukee is shown in national TV that has a lot of value. Oh!, wait Marquette always looses on national TV  :o
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MU111

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #582 on: June 01, 2015, 08:24:29 AM »
Someone on here didn't believe me when a few months ago I suggested that the true cost to taxpayers could be $400 million with interest payments factored in.  Dan Bice's new article further discusses that:

Interest could push public cost of new Bucks arena over $400 million
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/interest-could-push-public-cost-of-new-bucks-arena-over-400-million-b99510427z1-305636241.html

GGGG

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #583 on: June 01, 2015, 08:25:41 AM »
Someone on here didn't believe me when a few months ago I suggested that the true cost to taxpayers could be $400 million with interest payments factored in.  Dan Bice's new article further discusses that:

Interest could push public cost of new Bucks arena over $400 million
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/interest-could-push-public-cost-of-new-bucks-arena-over-400-million-b99510427z1-305636241.html


Yeah, I think that the hotel, car rental and restaurant taxes should be increased to lower this amount.

Litehouse

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #584 on: June 01, 2015, 09:08:15 AM »
It's misleading to say how future interest payments would increase the total amount in 10-30 years without also considering inflation in a present value calculation.

mu03eng

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #585 on: June 01, 2015, 09:33:24 AM »
It's misleading to say how future interest payments would increase the total amount in 10-30 years without also considering inflation in a present value calculation.

This is correct....Bice is picking and choosing what accounting practices he wants to follow when generating numbers to make his story more juicy....typical yellow journalism from a local paper
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brewcity77

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #586 on: June 01, 2015, 09:51:04 AM »
This is correct....Bice is picking and choosing what accounting practices he wants to follow when generating numbers to make his story more juicy....typical yellow journalism from a local paper

Right now, there are basically two sides to this.

1) Anti-Arena: Inflate the costs, ignore the jock tax, downplay potential benefits, make it seem like the state is paying the full bill and there will be no tangible benefit. This also includes the anti-Marquette crowd that asserts we are basically getting something for nothing (ignoring the roughly 500K in rent we'll pay annually).

2) Pro-Arena: Stick to current cost projections, constantly remind people of tax benefits, (likely) overstate how the project will revitalize downtown, remind us of $100M in needed renovations (likely inflated) at the BC.

The reality is somewhere in between. Yes, costs go up as time goes on. But so too will the taxes go up (jock tax currently would be about $130M over 20 years, but with 2-3 salary cap hikes likely will probably be closer to $200-250M). Will this revitalize downtown? No one knows. Almost certainly not to the level the arena supporters cite, but it's not like this will be a building dropped in a wasteland. All we know is this will give downtown more of a chance at revitalization than not doing it.

I prefer to look at what we know. We know that losing the Bucks will lose $6.5M annually in jock tax without factoring in salary cap increases. We know that the state will be on the hook for Bradley Center maintenance (however much it is). And we know that since the Park East Cooridor was torn down in 2003, there has been virtually no development in that area.

If people have better solutions to how to address those known issues, I'm all for listening. I highly doubt anyone will be able to get a plan in place, ready to go before the end of 2017. If so, more power to them.
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Eldon

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #587 on: June 01, 2015, 11:20:35 AM »
Right now, there are basically two sides to this.

1) Anti-Arena: Inflate the costs, ignore the jock tax, downplay potential benefits, make it seem like the state is paying the full bill and there will be no tangible benefit. This also includes the anti-Marquette crowd that asserts we are basically getting something for nothing (ignoring the roughly 500K in rent we'll pay annually).

2) Pro-Arena: Stick to current cost projections, constantly remind people of tax benefits, (likely) overstate how the project will revitalize downtown, remind us of $100M in needed renovations (likely inflated) at the BC.

The reality is somewhere in between. Yes, costs go up as time goes on. But so too will the taxes go up (jock tax currently would be about $130M over 20 years, but with 2-3 salary cap hikes likely will probably be closer to $200-250M). Will this revitalize downtown? No one knows. Almost certainly not to the level the arena supporters cite, but it's not like this will be a building dropped in a wasteland. All we know is this will give downtown more of a chance at revitalization than not doing it.

I prefer to look at what we know. We know that losing the Bucks will lose $6.5M annually in jock tax without factoring in salary cap increases. We know that the state will be on the hook for Bradley Center maintenance (however much it is). And we know that since the Park East Cooridor was torn down in 2003, there has been virtually no development in that area.

If people have better solutions to how to address those known issues, I'm all for listening. I highly doubt anyone will be able to get a plan in place, ready to go before the end of 2017. If so, more power to them.

Good general breakdown.

Although I will add to the "anti-arena" side.  If there is no rent increase for MU and MU puts in nothing toward the fixed cost of building the arena, then it is hard to argue that Marquette is not getting something for nothing.  MU will be getting a new arena, which will only serve to boost attendance for its games.  I think calling for MU to have a rent increase or chipping in on the fixed cost is justifiable without necessarily being "anti-Marquette."

Adding to the "Pro-arena" side, I think another benefit that is overlooked is the intangible benefits that an NBA team brings to the city.  I don't mean civic pride or anything like that.  I mean things like this

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/09/15/focus1.html

The article states how the NBA is an increasingly global game, especially in China.  Milwaukee business owners were very happy that the Bucks drafted Yi Jianlian (must not have been true Bucks fans, aint'a'?) because it gave Milwaukee instant household name-recognition in China.  To be sure, I'm not saying this is a world-beating effect or anything, but I also don't think it's all that trivial either.

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #589 on: June 01, 2015, 01:38:30 PM »
Interesting reading ..

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2015/05/29/murphys-law-arena-plan-is-massive-tax-shift-to-milwaukee/


That's fine if the state is willing to reallocate 78% of the Jock Tax money back to Milwaukee. Though something tells me that won't be happening...
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MuMark

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #590 on: June 03, 2015, 06:45:17 PM »
WISCTV News 3 ‏@WISCTV_News3  · 36m36 minutes ago 
Sources: Bucks arena deal to be announced Thursday #news3  http://www.channel3000.com/news/Sources-Bucks-arena-deal-to-be-announced-Thursday/33387470


brandx

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #591 on: June 03, 2015, 06:52:38 PM »

Adding to the "Pro-arena" side, I think another benefit that is overlooked is the intangible benefits that an NBA team brings to the city.  I don't mean civic pride or anything like that.  I mean things like this

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/09/15/focus1.html

The article states how the NBA is an increasingly global game, especially in China.  Milwaukee business owners were very happy that the Bucks drafted Yi Jianlian (must not have been true Bucks fans, aint'a'?) because it gave Milwaukee instant household name-recognition in China.  To be sure, I'm not saying this is a world-beating effect or anything, but I also don't think it's all that trivial either.

I have mentioned this aspect several times before. I don't think we have to way to quantify the effect that this has, but it certainly doesn't hurt when trying to attract foreign business that a mid-sized city like Milwaukee has name recognition in many countries around the world because of NBA basketball.

brewcity77

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #592 on: June 03, 2015, 08:01:02 PM »
WISCTV News 3 ‏@WISCTV_News3  · 36m36 minutes ago 
Sources: Bucks arena deal to be announced Thursday #news3  http://www.channel3000.com/news/Sources-Bucks-arena-deal-to-be-announced-Thursday/33387470

I'm curious what this means. Isn't the plan already announced? Is this the financing plan?
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Litehouse

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #593 on: June 03, 2015, 09:02:21 PM »
I'm curious what this means. Isn't the plan already announced? Is this the financing plan?

Nothing is official, the previous articles were just reporting the preliminary status based on leaks from the meetings.

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #594 on: June 04, 2015, 12:47:23 PM »
Nothing is official, the previous articles were just reporting the preliminary status based on leaks from the meetings.

MJS now shows there will be an official announcement after 3pm today.

swoopem

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #595 on: June 04, 2015, 02:12:57 PM »
So lets say the arena is approved and everything is good to go. What season would MU start to play there? I keep reading that if the stadium isn't up by 2017 the Bucks move. Does that mean MU will be playing there in 2016-2017 or 2017-2018?
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Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #596 on: June 04, 2015, 02:20:29 PM »
IMO there is no way its finished in time for 2016-17. They had stated they hoped to break ground in 2015 but I even have doubts about that happening that quickly.

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #597 on: June 04, 2015, 02:22:03 PM »
No way it's ready by Nov 2016, considering its June 2015 and decisions haven't even been made yet.

MUfan12

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #598 on: June 04, 2015, 02:36:16 PM »
So lets say the arena is approved and everything is good to go. What season would MU start to play there? I keep reading that if the stadium isn't up by 2017 the Bucks move. Does that mean MU will be playing there in 2016-2017 or 2017-2018?

2017-18, if they can begin construction this fall.

swoopem

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #599 on: June 04, 2015, 02:49:26 PM »
2017-18, if they can begin construction this fall.

Sounds good. Thanks
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