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Author Topic: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC  (Read 250684 times)

Litehouse

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #350 on: April 23, 2015, 10:17:02 AM »
Wasn't much of Miller Park paid for by people living out of state that came into town to rent a hotel, rent a car, etc? 
Not specifically.  Miller Park was paid for by an additional 0.1% sales tax in the 5 county area.  I suppose that extra 0.1% is also collected on those things, but it's not specifically targeted at them.

There's a separate tax on hotels, restaurants, and rental cars that pays for Frank Gimbel's Wisconsin Center District to support the Convention Center, Theatre, and the Pantherena.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #351 on: April 23, 2015, 01:10:35 PM »
Not specifically.  Miller Park was paid for by an additional 0.1% sales tax in the 5 county area.  I suppose that extra 0.1% is also collected on those things, but it's not specifically targeted at them.

There's a separate tax on hotels, restaurants, and rental cars that pays for Frank Gimbel's Wisconsin Center District to support the Convention Center, Theatre, and the Pantherena.

Got it.  I remember one of the "improvements" had tourists \ visitors paying for it, just couldn't remember which one.

warriorchick

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #352 on: April 23, 2015, 02:20:15 PM »
Exactly.  Nashville Fr. Ryan girls > Pius girls. No contest.

(With the exception of any scooper's beautiful and delightful wife.)



Are you saying that any Pius girl that just happens to be married to a Scooper> me?  What's that about?
Have some patience, FFS.

jsglow

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #353 on: April 23, 2015, 02:35:26 PM »
Ok, I'm in trouble.   :o 

No hon.  Not ALL Ryan girls are hotter/better than ALL Pius girls, especially any Pius girl that had the intelligence to marry a scooper.  But when one can find a Ryan girl that both marries a scooper and IS a scooper.... well, that's top shelf!

(How the sam heck did I get in this????)  Better call Saul.

mu03eng

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #354 on: April 23, 2015, 03:34:24 PM »
Ok, I'm in trouble.   :o 

No hon.  Not ALL Ryan girls are hotter/better than ALL Pius girls, especially any Pius girl that had the intelligence to marry a scooper.  But when one can find a Ryan girl that both marries a scooper and IS a scooper.... well, that's top shelf!

(How the sam heck did I get in this????)  Better call Saul.

Just post this and go nuclear....Where are Ryan and Pius girls on this? (I have no idea what Ryan and Pius girls are so I will in no way be offended)

"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

dgies9156

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #355 on: April 23, 2015, 05:30:33 PM »
Ok, I'm in trouble.   :o 

No hon.  Not ALL Ryan girls are hotter/better than ALL Pius girls, especially any Pius girl that had the intelligence to marry a scooper.  But when one can find a Ryan girl that both marries a scooper and IS a scooper.... well, that's top shelf!

(How the sam heck did I get in this????)  Better call Saul.

Oh, I know how you got into this one!

That's why I am really careful about what I say about Father Ryan and Nashville women generally.

That said, not all Father Ryan women are as lovely, intelligent and absolutely charming as Warriorchick. The reason: not enough of them went to Marquette! As for Milwaukee Pius women, I'm staying out of this one!

(I hope that helps!)

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #356 on: April 24, 2015, 12:11:09 PM »
As a WLHS grad I must say thank God for Pius and DSHA girls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdhWRO4-dQ
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 04:08:45 PM by Michael Kenyon »

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #357 on: April 24, 2015, 03:22:28 PM »
This is an interesting article about the financial end.  Seems like the corporate handout is gigantic.

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2015/04/23/murphys-law-state-bucks-arena-plan-fleeces-milwaukee

Litehouse

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #358 on: April 24, 2015, 04:33:16 PM »
This is an interesting article about the financial end.  Seems like the corporate handout is gigantic.

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2015/04/23/murphys-law-state-bucks-arena-plan-fleeces-milwaukee

The biggest take-away for me was that the state is declaring the entire development exempt from local property taxes.  That comes out to over $629 million over the next 30 years that the city/county would be giving up on this deal.  And the state reps want Milwaukee to kick in more?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #359 on: April 24, 2015, 09:07:18 PM »
This is an interesting article about the financial end.  Seems like the corporate handout is gigantic.

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2015/04/23/murphys-law-state-bucks-arena-plan-fleeces-milwaukee


If that article is true, you guys are getting fleeced.  What a giveaway...absoute highway robbery by the Bucks who are being asked to do very little. 

Eldon

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #360 on: April 25, 2015, 01:18:20 AM »
Miller Park has undoubtedly been good for West Milwaukee. That area south of the stadium was a wasteland. Now there are tons of restaurants and new businesses that previously never had interest in the area. From the Parkway south to Lincoln, a new, thriving business district has sprouted up that didn't exist 15 years ago.

I know, stadiums are no guarantee of growth, but Miller Park has definitely led to a growth spike in an area that was previously moribund.

But is this new growth entirely new or was it "taken" from elsewhere in the city?  43rd street aka Miller Parkway is up-and-coming, but that may be at the expense of some other part of the city.

In any case, why does everything have to be about benefits vs costs?  I think someone said this way back on page 3 or 4, but think of the analogy of buying a house--will this house gain value above and beyond the rate of inflation for the next 30 years?  Hmm I'm not sure...and while I really like the fireplace, I'm not sure how much valu--WHO CARES?!? Do you like the house or not?

I want a basketball team in Milwaukee.  Are there more jobs with or without the Bucks after accounting for Jock tax revenue on one hand and tax breaks on the other, and so on...WHO CARES?!?!? I want a sports team.  I am willing to pay a little more in sales tax, property tax, or whatever to get one.  If you don't want a sports team, then that's fine, too.  Let the politicians know your preference by voting/calling them, etc.

You want the amenities of a big city, you have to pay.  It's as simple as that.  Any added jobs or economic impact, as Brew said, is simply icing on the cake IMO.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #361 on: April 25, 2015, 04:05:05 PM »
If that article is true, you guys are getting fleeced.  What a giveaway...absoute highway robbery by the Bucks who are being asked to do very little. 

Bruce Murphy is a solid reporter.

GGGG

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #362 on: April 25, 2015, 06:12:01 PM »
This is an interesting article about the financial end.  Seems like the corporate handout is gigantic.

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2015/04/23/murphys-law-state-bucks-arena-plan-fleeces-milwaukee



I'm pretty sure that the Bradley Center and Miller Park are also property tax exempt since they are legally owned by government agencies.  That's why they don't pay construction sales tax too. 

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #363 on: April 27, 2015, 10:16:15 AM »
If we're going to count the "jock tax" as income that helps pay off the arena, should Milwaukee make a strong play to acquire an NHL team?

Presumably, the new arena could be multi-purpose, and Wisco would attract a team (mostly) full of millionaires paying taxes.

I know Milwaukee has made efforts in the past, but a shiny new arena and some tax incentives like the Bucks are receiving could make it attractive to a NHL franchise, no?





GGGG

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #364 on: April 27, 2015, 10:23:17 AM »
If we're going to count the "jock tax" as income that helps pay off the arena, should Milwaukee make a strong play to acquire an NHL team?

Presumably, the new arena could be multi-purpose, and Wisco would attract a team (mostly) full of millionaires paying taxes.

I know Milwaukee has made efforts in the past, but a shiny new arena and some tax incentives like the Bucks are receiving could make it attractive to a NHL franchise, no?


I think the Milwaukee market would not be able to handle both an NBA team and NHL team.  Not big enough.  Not enough corporate dollars. 

Milwaukee is the #39 MSA in the country.  A few smaller locations have either an NHL or NBA team, but none have both.  In fact the smallest MSA that has both is Denver at #21, and they are about 75% bigger than Milwaukee.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #365 on: April 27, 2015, 10:35:45 AM »

I think the Milwaukee market would not be able to handle both an NBA team and NHL team.  Not big enough.  Not enough corporate dollars. 

Milwaukee is the #39 MSA in the country.  A few smaller locations have either an NHL or NBA team, but none have both.  In fact the smallest MSA that has both is Denver at #21, and they are about 75% bigger than Milwaukee.

You're right, but so what? Give a franchise an attractive deal. That's how Milwaukee can get them.

Get them to move here. Get them to sign a lease. The state and city reap the benefits.

If they bail in 20 years because attendance drops, whatever... at least Milwaukee and Wisco get 20 years of hockey Jock Tax to pay off the new arena.

Plus, TWICE as many pro games downtown to stimulate economic growth.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #366 on: April 27, 2015, 10:48:08 AM »
The Bradley Center was designed with the idea of luring an NHL team through either expansion or relocation.  That resulted in poor sightlines for a basketball venue and no NHL team came.  So you want to pi$$ on the NBA team that is in Milwaukee on the chance that an NHL team will come this time?  No, design the stadium for the team you have not the one you don't.

The Blackhawks blocked Milwaukee getting a team last time and would do so again.  Hockey is a niche sport and the Blackhawks don't want a team 90 miles north to compete with.

esotericmindguy

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #367 on: April 27, 2015, 11:23:21 AM »
What a joke, let them move. Looking objectively (not as a MU fan) this deal is complete garbage. More pathetic than what MN just approved the billionaire crook. If the bucks improve, fans will go to the Bradley center in droves. It's the owners that don't make enough money. It's just sports, has very little value on the city outside of entertainment. It's been proven. Free agents don't want to live in MKE or MSP during the winter months, Wiggins and Parker will likely leave when their contracts are up.

Consider from 1979 to 1987 the Bucks won 50 games seven straight years and appeared in eight Conference Semifinals and three Conference Finals. Then free agency became popular. Since 1991 season the bucks have ONE 50 win season, spanning 24 years. They've only won 2 playoff series during this time, both in 2001. Besides the two expansion teams, no team has performed worse. They're a joke.

The details on the owner/stadium as I know it. The owners are paying 450 million plus $100 million for new stadium. So $550 million...if it's approved. If not, the NBA said they'll buy it back for $475. The average worth of NBA franchise has risen to 74% in the last year, estimating the bucks worth $600M. Not a bad deal for the owners, they probably don't care if the stadium gets built, they still get $25M. And if they do get a sweet deal on the stadium the value probably jumps to 700M (see bud selig). It baffles me that city officials continue to support bad legislation for sport arenas.


mu-rara

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #369 on: April 27, 2015, 11:35:50 AM »

The details on the owner/stadium as I know it. The owners are paying 450 million plus $100 million for new stadium. So $550 million...if it's approved. If not, the NBA said they'll buy it back for $475. The average worth of NBA franchise has risen to 74% in the last year, estimating the bucks worth $600M. Not a bad deal for the owners, they probably don't care if the stadium gets built, they still get $25M. And if they do get a sweet deal on the stadium the value probably jumps to 700M (see bud selig). It baffles me that city officials continue to support bad legislation for sport arenas.
$25 million is small change.  These guys are Wall Street guys.  They are looking for a big payday years down the road.  

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #370 on: April 27, 2015, 11:47:22 AM »
What a joke, let them move. Looking objectively (not as a MU fan) this deal is complete garbage. More pathetic than what MN just approved the billionaire crook. If the bucks improve, fans will go to the Bradley center in droves. It's the owners that don't make enough money. It's just sports, has very little value on the city outside of entertainment. It's been proven. Free agents don't want to live in MKE or MSP during the winter months, Wiggins and Parker will likely leave when their contracts are up.

Consider from 1979 to 1987 the Bucks won 50 games seven straight years and appeared in eight Conference Semifinals and three Conference Finals. Then free agency became popular. Since 1991 season the bucks have ONE 50 win season, spanning 24 years. They've only won 2 playoff series during this time, both in 2001. Besides the two expansion teams, no team has performed worse. They're a joke.

The details on the owner/stadium as I know it. The owners are paying 450 million plus $100 million for new stadium. So $550 million...if it's approved. If not, the NBA said they'll buy it back for $475. The average worth of NBA franchise has risen to 74% in the last year, estimating the bucks worth $600M. Not a bad deal for the owners, they probably don't care if the stadium gets built, they still get $25M. And if they do get a sweet deal on the stadium the value probably jumps to 700M (see bud selig). It baffles me that city officials continue to support bad legislation for sport arenas.

You're not wrong, but I do believe the ownership group WANTS a new arena. I also think they are trying to get a sweetheart deal (good for them).

The problem is, we need to remove emotion from the decision making process. If spending money to keep the Bucks HELPS the city/state, then fine, maybe it's worth it to kick in some $.

However, there are 2 areas where it gets cloudy:
#1 How much does a NBA arena and franchise really help the city, specifically Milwaukee? I'm not talking about emotional appeal "It's good for the city!" or pretty pictures. I'm talking hard dollars (revenue) and branding value.

#2 Everybody has to check their emotions at the door. You may like the Bucks. You may LOVE the NBA. Doesn't mean this is a good deal for the city. I love golf, but I don't think Milwaukee should invest 200million dollars into a golf course to attract more tournaments and players. It would be stupid.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #371 on: April 27, 2015, 12:00:05 PM »




#1 How much does a NBA arena and franchise really help the city, specifically Milwaukee? I'm not talking about emotional appeal "It's good for the city!" or pretty pictures. I'm talking hard dollars (revenue) and branding value.


From the poll I linked above:

If the team leaves, the state of Wisconsin will lose more than $730 million dollars in revenue over 30 years, and will be forced to pay over $100 million to keep the Bradley Center open, hurting Wisconsin’s ability to fund other priorities like education and economic development.


#2 Everybody has to check their emotions at the door. You may like the Bucks. You may LOVE the NBA. Doesn't mean this is a good deal for the city. I love golf, but I don't think Milwaukee should invest 200million dollars into a golf course to attract more tournaments and players. It would be stupid.

I'd suggest opponents also "check their emotions at the door" since one of the most common arguments is "It's just sports and a lot of people don't care about sports."

I strongly suggest you read the article I linked above.  One proposal states "As you know, under the arena development proposal, the state would borrow $150 million dollars, which will be repaid by tax revenue generated by the Milwaukee Bucks. The loan would come from a state run trust fund, so the state would be borrowing from itself, and NOT from Wall Street. By law, all interest paid back on the loan would go directly towards state education funding."  If that is all true, seems like supporting a new stadium is a slam dunk.  And that isn't even factoring in the potential $500 million in neighboring developments.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #372 on: April 27, 2015, 12:19:59 PM »
From the poll I linked above:

If the team leaves, the state of Wisconsin will lose more than $730 million dollars in revenue over 30 years, and will be forced to pay over $100 million to keep the Bradley Center open, hurting Wisconsin’s ability to fund other priorities like education and economic development.

I'd suggest opponents also "check their emotions at the door" since one of the most common arguments is "It's just sports and a lot of people don't care about sports."

I strongly suggest you read the article I linked above.  One proposal states "As you know, under the arena development proposal, the state would borrow $150 million dollars, which will be repaid by tax revenue generated by the Milwaukee Bucks. The loan would come from a state run trust fund, so the state would be borrowing from itself, and NOT from Wall Street. By law, all interest paid back on the loan would go directly towards state education funding."  If that is all true, seems like supporting a new stadium is a slam dunk.  And that isn't even factoring in the potential $500 million in neighboring developments.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but this was my point before...

If a NBA franchise and new arena generate that much revenue, then lets get a NHL franchise as well. The template is already laid out. For a minimal investment, the city and state get a big return.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #373 on: April 27, 2015, 12:35:29 PM »
Like I said, the Blackhawks won't let Milwaukee get an NHL team.  Let's not waste precious internet space talking about something that isn't going to happen.

mu03eng

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Re: Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC
« Reply #374 on: April 27, 2015, 12:47:33 PM »
I'm not trying to be a dick, but this was my point before...

If a NBA franchise and new arena generate that much revenue, then lets get a NHL franchise as well. The template is already laid out. For a minimal investment, the city and state get a big return.

Also don't forget law of diminishing returns and how big the entertainment revenue pie is.  Economics don't work that way....."we have a really successful car dealership here, lets open 8 more and we'll make millions more"
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

 

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