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Poll

Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?

Yes
31 (24.2%)
No
70 (54.7%)
No, Because We Need a Good Laugh Now and Then!
27 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 127

Author Topic: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?  (Read 16202 times)

dgies9156

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Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« on: March 30, 2015, 06:25:20 PM »
OK, now that Jean Lenti-Ponsetto has gone back to the future, we should ask whether DePaul should be drummed out of the Big East.

Arguments for:
  1) Their athletic director is incapable of managing a head coaching decision?
  2) They are so desperate, they are hopeless
  3) There are teams out there -- including Virginia Commonwealth, Dayton, St. Louis and Gonzaga that offer a stronger program.
  4) When your Chicago entry is as bad as DePaul and as hopeless as DePaul, there is no media benefit to being in Chicago.

Arguments against:
  5) They are in Chicago and give the Big East a presence, no matter how tenuous, in the Chicago market.
  6) They may someday fire Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, or she may retire.
  7) They are good for two wins a year, most years.
  8) If we replace them with Dayton, we will have to move the BIg East tournament from Madison Square Garden to the UD Arena.
 
  

Boozemon Barro

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 06:28:33 PM »
Switch them out with UIC.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 06:37:57 PM »
No
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Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 06:39:19 PM »
Keep them at a half share until they start trying again.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 06:40:59 PM »
So membership in the BE is a voluntary based in some arbitrary standard of "trying" at basketball.  And hiring Leiteo rises to the level of "not trying?"  Yes, I'm not a fan of this hire but I do not think it rises to the level of kicking them out.  

DePaul is partnering with the Mayor of Chicago (name TBD next week) to build a $200+ million stadium but apparently this does not qualify as trying.

Other sports and academic achievements apparently do not matter either?

Question, had the B1G kicked Northwestern out in the 1980s/early 1990s when they were very very bad in FB and BB, would they be a better conference today?

 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 06:43:11 PM by Heisenberg »

brewcity77

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 06:41:33 PM »
I wanted to offer the A-10 DePaul, a home and home series for each team, and their choice of Big East assistants for the Fordham job in exchange for Dayton, but Fordham made a bad hire of their own today. If anyone has any other ideas, maybe we can get a swap deal done soon.
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Tugg Speedman

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 06:44:49 PM »
Why not kick MU out?  They finished with a worse record than DePaul and hired a coach with no experience!  Leiteo has won NCAA tourney games.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 06:49:28 PM »
Should the B1G have kicked Bucky out in 1991?  They were a laughingstock back then ... far worse than DePaul is now with a nearly bankrupt athletic department.

From Red Ink to Roses: The Turbulent Transformation of a Big Ten Program
http://www.amazon.com/From-Red-Ink-Roses-Transformation/dp/067174853X

Telander (Heaven is a Playground) describes a year's events in the University of Wisconsin athletic department through a series of vignettes. Three people draw most of his attention: Barry Baum, a reporter for the student newspaper; Rick Aberman, the university's sports psychologist; and Al Fish, the administrative officer for the athletic department. Telander also weaves in the stories of dozens of Wisconsin athletes, coaches and administrators to trace the changes in the university's athletic department throughout 1991. The year was marked by the department's efforts to cut its budget deficit, an endeavor that included eliminating baseball, fencing and three other sports. In well-written, magazine-style prose, Telander (a senior writer for Sports Illustrated ) puts a human face on the University of Wisconsin's athletic department. And although the year held a number of memorable events, Telander, as it turns out, was too quick off the mark, for in 1993 the football team, which struggled in 1991, went 10-1-1 and won the Rose Bowl. Photos not seen by PW .

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 09:27:11 PM »
Hberg....I think its a joke
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Avenue Commons

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2015, 09:52:46 PM »
Two of the five First Team All-Americas, Kaminsky and Okafor, are Chicqgo area products. The talent level there is immense. But they have to tap into it like Pat Kennedy did. I don't think Leiato is the guy.
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chapman

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2015, 10:19:27 PM »
Trade them for Simeon High School!


MUSF

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 10:33:04 PM »
Let DePaul stay!!

The phrase "at least we're not DePaul" kept me from physically harming myself and potentially others over the past two years.

tower912

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 06:12:25 AM »
MU fans should not be voting to kick out a team that had a better season than MU had. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 07:03:24 AM »
Keep them at a half share until they start trying again.

This.  No coasting on other's earnings.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 07:04:01 AM »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 07:07:38 AM »
So membership in the BE is a voluntary based in some arbitrary standard of "trying" at basketball.  And hiring Leiteo rises to the level of "not trying?"  Yes, I'm not a fan of this hire but I do not think it rises to the level of kicking them out.  

DePaul is partnering with the Mayor of Chicago (name TBD next week) to build a $200+ million stadium but apparently this does not qualify as trying.

Other sports and academic achievements apparently do not matter either?

Question, had the B1G kicked Northwestern out in the 1980s/early 1990s when they were very very bad in FB and BB, would they be a better conference today?


Part of me fears that they will be counting on people coming just to see the new arena.

Question, had the B1G kicked Northwestern out in the 1980s/early 1990s when they were very very bad in FB and BB, would they be a better conference today?

How do you define better?  It would certainly be better off financially with say, Missouri as a part of the Big Ten Network.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 07:08:50 AM »
Why not kick MU out?  They finished with a worse record than DePaul and hired a coach with no experience!  Leiteo has won NCAA tourney games.

You are being facetious, not stupid, right?
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

dgies9156

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2015, 08:22:02 AM »
I was a bit tounge in cheek when I wrote this poll, but I appreciate substantially the answeres herein. I acknowledge DePaul had a better record than we did. But, we're doing something about it. Our spending, our recruiting and even our new coach is some of the best in the country.

DePaul's men's team, which should be its primary revenue generator, has been bad for ages. Since the 1960s, we've never been that bad that long. And if we were, management would do something more than bring Mike Deane back.DePaul has really lost its way. Not sure whether Jean Lenti-Ponsetto is being overly politically correct; whether there is a strong anti-basketball undercurrent among their faculty and staff; or, whether they just don't care. But waiting for a new arena to open is akin to the Miami Marlins believing they will be world champions with their new stadium. And even then, they tried.

As to kicking Northwestern out of the BIG, or, for that matter, kicking Vanderbilt out of the SEC (at least Northwestern has won the BIG at least once in football), not sure why the question hasn't been raised. As to Becky Badger, they had some really bad football teams for a really long time, but the conference is built around Ohio State and Michigan and the dozen dwarfs anyway. Too bad Michigan has become a dwarf as of late.


Loose Cannon

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2015, 08:33:34 AM »


No Can not lose this market and things will change. Its faster to turnaround basketball than other major sports.
" Love is Space and Time measured by the Heart. "  M Proust

brewcity77

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2015, 08:49:34 AM »
My honest thoughts on DePaul are pretty simple...

If they don't get rid of Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, there is a very realistic argument that they should be replaced. This league was founded to capitalize on being a top men's basketball conference. You can argue pros and cons as to whether it's been successful in its infancy, but make no mistake, this is a men's basketball league.

DePaul does a good job with women's sports, fits the mission of the league, and brings a bit of prestige as both the largest catholic university and representative of the third largest media market in the country. That's all well and good. But if they aren't willing to show a commitment to bettering the program this entire league was founded on, why are there here?

I love beating DePaul, hate losing to them (New Year's was gutting), and find them great fun to laugh at. But at the end of the day, this is their third consecutive time hiring the same guy. If it doesn't work this time, who's next? Oliver Purnell again? The ghost of Ray Meyer?

Firing Purnell was the first smart thing that school did in ages. Building a new arena should help, but with the fans and booster in revolt mode, what are the chances they can even fill it? Leitao brought some players to DePaul the last time, but one of the big knocks was that he couldn't recruit Chicago, so how does this hire better their position? The problem, however, is not Leitao.

The problem with DePaul is they cannot let go of their past. Leitao is part of their past, and JLP should be part of their past. Firing Purnell was not enough, JLP had to go as well. They botched that. Further, JLP refused to let another part of their past, assistant Billy Garrett, go, so she hired the only coach that would keep him on the staff.

Obviously we aren't going to kick DePaul out right now. But there is precedent for the Big East kicking a team out for failing to field a competitive team (Temple in 2004) and considering DePaul's track record and seeming desire to continue along the same retread path that got them here, I wouldn't object at all if Stu Jackson gave Father Dennis a call and said "if this one doesn't work out, you might want to swing the axe a little higher up than just the men's basketball coach."

In the past 7 years under two different coaches, DePaul has a 16-110 (0.127) record in Big East play. More than 1/3 of those wins came this past season. 6-12 was their best season in 7 years and they fired their coach because of it. This team is beyond the definition of inept. I get that someone has to lose, but all members should show a legitimate commitment to the most important program on campus and DePaul has consistently failed to do that.

DePaul has an obligation not to their fans, not to their alumni, not to their boosters, but to the rest of the Big East to do everything in their power to field a competitive team. If they can't do that, in all honesty, they should be warned and if they do not improve, yes, they should be drummed out of the Big East. There are plenty of schools that would love their place in this league and have demonstrated the willingness, both in terms of winning and dedication to their program, to deserve that place.
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GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2015, 08:52:13 AM »
Northwestern and Vanderbilt are top-20 academic institutions in the country.  They bring much more to each respective conference than just athletics.  Also, since they are both private, they both help each conference from being fully public conferences - allowing them to shield information and costs.

If DePaul wishes to just continue taking money from Fox and the conference, thus funding all the other DePaul sports, and have no real interest in competing in men's basketball under the current leadership, then they really have no place or right to continue to be a part of the Big East - which emphasizes a push to becoming an elite basketball conference from top-to-bottom.  Now, this won't happen because neither side will ever publicly state this, but the writing has been on the wall for years.

If anyone actually watched the press conference yesterday introducing Leitao, it was nothing short of being pathetic and downright sad.  JLP spoke about herself and all of the school's accomplishments fort the first 10 minutes, after being 15 minutes late to her own press conference, she then spoke mumbled for the next 10 minutes about how Leitao defeated the likes of Crean, Calipari, Huggins, Brey, R. Williams and Coach K, and is really good friends with several Big East coaches.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2015, 08:54:22 AM »
My honest thoughts on DePaul are pretty simple...

If they don't get rid of Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, there is a very realistic argument that they should be replaced. This league was founded to capitalize on being a top men's basketball conference. You can argue pros and cons as to whether it's been successful in its infancy, but make no mistake, this is a men's basketball league.

DePaul does a good job with women's sports, fits the mission of the league, and brings a bit of prestige as both the largest catholic university and representative of the third largest media market in the country. That's all well and good. But if they aren't willing to show a commitment to bettering the program this entire league was founded on, why are there here?

I love beating DePaul, hate losing to them (New Year's was gutting), and find them great fun to laugh at. But at the end of the day, this is their third consecutive time hiring the same guy. If it doesn't work this time, who's next? Oliver Purnell again? The ghost of Ray Meyer?

Firing Purnell was the first smart thing that school did in ages. Building a new arena should help, but with the fans and booster in revolt mode, what are the chances they can even fill it? Leitao brought some players to DePaul the last time, but one of the big knocks was that he couldn't recruit Chicago, so how does this hire better their position? The problem, however, is not Leitao.

The problem with DePaul is they cannot let go of their past. Leitao is part of their past, and JLP should be part of their past. Firing Purnell was not enough, JLP had to go as well. They botched that. Further, JLP refused to let another part of their past, assistant Billy Garrett, go, so she hired the only coach that would keep him on the staff.

Obviously we aren't going to kick DePaul out right now. But there is precedent for the Big East kicking a team out for failing to field a competitive team (Temple in 2004) and considering DePaul's track record and seeming desire to continue along the same retread path that got them here, I wouldn't object at all if Stu Jackson gave Father Dennis a call and said "if this one doesn't work out, you might want to swing the axe a little higher up than just the men's basketball coach."

In the past 7 years under two different coaches, DePaul has a 16-110 (0.127) record in Big East play. More than 1/3 of those wins came this past season. 6-12 was their best season in 7 years and they fired their coach because of it. This team is beyond the definition of inept. I get that someone has to lose, but all members should show a legitimate commitment to the most important program on campus and DePaul has consistently failed to do that.

DePaul has an obligation not to their fans, not to their alumni, not to their boosters, but to the rest of the Big East to do everything in their power to field a competitive team. If they can't do that, in all honesty, they should be warned and if they do not improve, yes, they should be drummed out of the Big East. There are plenty of schools that would love their place in this league and have demonstrated the willingness, both in terms of winning and dedication to their program, to deserve that place.

Brew, absolutely excellent post.  +1000

Thanks for being able to articulate my thoughts perfectly.

brewcity77

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 09:18:16 AM »
Northwestern and Vanderbilt are top-20 academic institutions in the country.  They bring much more to each respective conference than just athletics.  Also, since they are both private, they both help each conference from being fully public conferences - allowing them to shield information and costs.

If DePaul wishes to just continue taking money from Fox and the conference, thus funding all the other DePaul sports, and have no real interest in competing in men's basketball under the current leadership, then they really have no place or right to continue to be a part of the Big East - which emphasizes a push to becoming an elite basketball conference from top-to-bottom.  Now, this won't happen because neither side will ever publicly state this, but the writing has been on the wall for years.

If anyone actually watched the press conference yesterday introducing Leitao, it was nothing short of being pathetic and downright sad.  JLP spoke about herself and all of the school's accomplishments fort the first 10 minutes, after being 15 minutes late to her own press conference, she then spoke mumbled for the next 10 minutes about how Leitao defeated the likes of Crean, Calipari, Huggins, Brey, R. Williams and Coach K, and is really good friends with several Big East coaches.

Good post,but the two bolded bits especially.

If DePaul fails to put a competitive team on the court in Men's Basketball, they are effectively stealing from the other schools. If they cannot earn NCAA credits of their own, they are effectively stealing from the other schools. It's easy to say this is all comedic, but it really isn't. This conference is relying on all ten members to contribute to a brand that is worth putting on FS1.

It's not just their woeful league play, either. In the past 7 years, DePaul has a 53-35 record against non-conference opponents. That includes 7-21 against high-major teams. While 0.250 certainly isn't good against other high-majors, what's worse is that 46 of their 53 wins (86.8%) came against mid and low major opponents in non-conference! And they have on average 2 losses per year against those types of teams. How is that acceptable?

And that press conference...just brutal. It sounded like 15 minutes of JLP trying to spitshine a turd.
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chapman

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 09:34:12 AM »
How much television and tournament revenue has been paid to DePaul despite a lack of commitment to field a competitive team? Revenue coming from television - where Fox expects to air basketball people want to see, not pay to show a program nobody wants to see.  And revenue from making and advancing in the NCAA tournament, which they haven't done at all since joining the conference.  They aren't being asked to win every year, but six years in the cellar (including zero and one win years) isn't acceptable.  That was only broken by two schools who do commit to basketball in rebuilding mode; nobody doubts MU or CU's commitment to fielding a quality team.  Do hope that the Big East schools have/plan to communicate that DePaul's product is unacceptable - quiet and out of the press, a censure, light a bag of dog crap on their porch, doesn't matter, it seems they need some push because they don't get it.  It's nice that they commit to their athletes excelling as students and invest in women's sports.  That would be fine in the Patriot League, but men's basketball drives the bus in the Big East.

Avenue Commons

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Re: Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2015, 09:42:20 AM »
I've heard (and I think it was posted on the board before) that DePaul's AD's plan is to just get the revenue from the basketball teams in the Big East and then apply that revenue to all the other sports. The DePaul Vincentian philosphy is that all sports and all student-athletes should be treated the same.
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