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Author Topic: Lavin out at St Johns  (Read 39596 times)

Celtic Truth

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #100 on: March 30, 2015, 09:52:13 PM »
Question for everyone falling all over Mullin's hire -

Name his sucesses since his retirement as a player? 

Isaiah Thomas stunk at everything he tried after his playing days were through.  Eddie Jordan, who had prior coaching experience, is working out poorly at his alma mater.  As I mentioned yesterday, Sidney Moncrief, great player, intelligent player, disaster when he tried to coach after never having done so, like Mullin will be trying.

Why does hype and a big name always cloud people's judgments?  And I'm talking almost any walk of life you care to name.

You asked if he has been successful in any walk of life since retiring from basketball. I can shed some light on who he is as a man.

I hope that all of you know the story of Chris Herren. If you haven't yet, PLEASE watch the ESPN 30 for 30 called "unguarded" which tells his story; I guarantee it will be the best thing you have ever watched. Trust Me. For those that don't know, he was a stud High school player from Fall River, Massachusetts. He went on to play at BC and was kicked out after failing a few drug tests. Most people gave up on him but Jerry Tarkanian gave him a shot at Fresno State. He continued to struggle with addiction but played extremely well. He then went on to the NBA where he played for the hometown Celtics. His addiction eventually got the best of him, and his life spiraled out of control. He tried rehab several times and continued to relapse and he overdosed 3 times. He battled extreme addiction for 14 years.

So what does this have to do with Mullin? After several failed recovery attempts Chris' situation seemed helpless. This is when Chris Mullin heard Herren's story through Steve Nash who was a mutual friend. Mullin, a former alcoholic who successfully went to rehab, reached out to Herren and told him his own story of addiction. Mullin told him what it really takes to get sober, and how badly you have to want it for yourself. Mullin inspired the broke Herren and convinced him to go back to rehab and Mullin paid for the whole thing($18,000 per month).

Chris Herren has now been sober for about 4 years and he goes around the country speaking to kids about his story. My dad knows him personally, and the work that Chris does is amazing. He has a foundation called Project Purple and part of the foundations work is to help addicts pay for expensive rehab. This was all inspired by Mullin's generosity. Chris Herren says that he would most likely be dead if it wasn't for Chris Mullin. I think this says a lot about the man that Mullin is. If you were a parent would you want your kid to play for him? I sure as hell would. Like I said earlier, Mullin is a no BS kind of guy that can really relate to people from all walks of life.

Celtic Truth

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2015, 10:00:02 PM »
Here is a link to Herren's 30 for 30. If you have never seen it I beg you to watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcmBAgqWnt4

brewcity77

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #102 on: March 30, 2015, 11:51:32 PM »
Short-term excitement makes it a good hire?  Short-term excitement and donations that will dry up in a NY minute if they suck.  And he likely has a massive rebuilding job next season.  NY is not noted for their patience, regardless the circumstances.

He could be Hoiberg, he could be Clyde Drexler. More likely he's somewhere in between. But better a hire like Mullin that inspires the fanbase that one like Leitao that incenses them.
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mattyv1908

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2015, 12:49:58 AM »
Question for everyone falling all over Mullin's hire -

Name his sucesses since his retirement as a player? 

Isaiah Thomas stunk at everything he tried after his playing days were through.  Eddie Jordan, who had prior coaching experience, is working out poorly at his alma mater.  As I mentioned yesterday, Sidney Moncrief, great player, intelligent player, disaster when he tried to coach after never having done so, like Mullin will be trying.

Why does hype and a big name always cloud people's judgments?  And I'm talking almost any walk of life you care to name.

Same exact thing could be said about Wojo, except for the fact that Mullin was an infinitely better player than Wojo?

Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

Dawson Rental

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2015, 07:28:56 AM »
Same exact thing could be said about Wojo, except for the fact that Mullin was an infinitely better player than Wojo?


Say what?  15 years as an assistant at Duke is nothing?  Seven years as associate coach at Duke, nothing?  Two NCAA championships while an assistant at Duke, nothing?  Assistant coach for USA basketball is nothing?
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #105 on: March 31, 2015, 07:35:22 AM »
The consensus on NYC sports talk radio yesterday was the St. John's fans were very happy with the hire, including everyone's favorite St. John's grad (and occasional blowhard) Mike Francesca.
The consensus was that he needed a good X&Os guy as a bench coach and he could sell recruits his story.  The "I came from the same place, worked hard, played at St. John's, played on the Dream Team with Jordan, Bird, & Magic and am a Hall-of-Famer and you can be to if you listen to me."

jsglow

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #106 on: March 31, 2015, 07:50:06 AM »
Same exact thing could be said about Wojo, except for the fact that Mullin was an infinitely better player than Wojo?



Huh? 15 year at Coach K's side vs.........

Yep.  Same exact thing.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2015, 08:41:49 AM »
Short-term excitement makes it a good hire?  Short-term excitement and donations that will dry up in a NY minute if they suck.  And he likely has a massive rebuilding job next season.  NY is not noted for their patience, regardless the circumstances.

I agree.

People were pretty excited with Lavin. Though an LA guy, most realized UCLA standards are whack and figured a guy who could recruit like he could didn't need all that much X/O bullcrap. So, he hired Gene Keady to handle the strategy and finer points. As anyone with a pulse has noticed the last five years, the Johnnies played some of the dumbest basketball known to man and were renowned for their ill-discipline on the court and off the court. Guess that "wise Xs and Os strategy" hire wasn't the panacea everyone anticipated.

Lav hired NYC guys. Lav recruited NYC but had to keep an eye nationally because every single human involved in the NYC recruiting scene is rat scum looking for a handout and the Johnnies didn't budget enough money to make everyone happy. Does that change with Mullin? Does the AAU/handler cartel lower their price now that Mullin is coach? Or are they now in an even stronger position knowing they have an inexperienced figurehead to deal with who will be desperate for any sense of success?


brewcity77

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2015, 09:06:52 AM »
Lav hired NYC guys. Lav recruited NYC but had to keep an eye nationally because every single human involved in the NYC recruiting scene is rat scum looking for a handout and the Johnnies didn't budget enough money to make everyone happy. Does that change with Mullin? Does the AAU/handler cartel lower their price now that Mullin is coach? Or are they now in an even stronger position knowing they have an inexperienced figurehead to deal with who will be desperate for any sense of success?

In the short term, satisfying the boosters will lead to an influx of cash. Donations will be up, which *should* translate to more resources for Mullin's program. As far as recruiting, I really think it comes down to Slice Rohrssen. Get him in and recruiting truly will take care of itself. He won't allow any more of the handler BS than necessary.

Lavin's biggest problem I feel was that he never had a backup plan for anything. When he missed on his blue-chip targets, it wasn't like he got a bunch of fringe top-100 guys or solid 3-stars as replacements, he just got...no one. This year's St. John's team has freaking TWENTY guys listed on their roster, yet only 6 guys averaged double-digit minutes. Why? Because he filled out the scholarships with utter crap when he swung and missed. That's why St. John's was always underachieving, because while they had some truly spectacular top-end talent, the rest of their roster was a barren wasteland.

Strategy-wise it was the same. When the Johnnies could fly and run they could compete with anyone, but when they lost, more often than not, they lost bad. The majority of their losses under Lavin were by double-digits. Pretty much win or get embarrassed.

That alone doesn't mean Mullin will be an upgrade. He could certainly fall flat on his face. It will likely be a rough first year because the returning roster, especially if Obekpa and Jordan leave, will be inexperienced and talent-deficient. But he's Chris Mullin, so he'll be given time to learn. If he can coach half as well as he played, they'll be in great hands. If not, at least St. John's is trying, which is more than we can say of DePaul.
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mattyv1908

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2015, 10:01:53 AM »
Say what?  15 years as an assistant at Duke is nothing?  Seven years as associate coach at Duke, nothing?  Two NCAA championships while an assistant at Duke, nothing?  Assistant coach for USA basketball is nothing?

Being a great dental assistant for 15 years and being a dentist are two completely different things.  Same thing applies with coaching.  Both Mullins and Wojo in there own way have been around the game in different fashion, but neither translates at all in their new endeavors.
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LON

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2015, 10:12:44 AM »
Being a great dental assistant for 15 years and being a dentist are two completely different things.  Same thing applies with coaching.  Both Mullins and Wojo in there own way have been around the game in different fashion, but neither translates at all in their new endeavors.

So, in your words:

Dental assistant : Dentist :: Assistant Coach : Head Coach

That's not a good analogy.  At least in Wojo's case.

Maybe if you used PA and Doctor, but even then, they're still both doctors.

mattyv1908

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2015, 10:25:40 AM »
So, in your words:

Dental assistant : Dentist :: Assistant Coach : Head Coach

That's not a good analogy.  At least in Wojo's case.

Maybe if you used PA and Doctor, but even then, they're still both doctors.

An assistant head coach and an actual head coach are light years removed from each other.  One position has virtually zero accountability while the other has almost all of the accountability.  Some assistant coaches go on to be good head coaches, but many don't.

And why is Wojo an exception to the analogy?  Kevin Ollie actually won a NC his first season after being a long time UConn assistant to Calhoun and you have posters on this forum questioning his long term viability.  Here's yet another example of complete homerism that occurs fairly regularly on this forum.
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

LON

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #112 on: March 31, 2015, 10:35:45 AM »
An assistant head coach and an actual head coach are light years removed from each other.  One position has virtually zero accountability while the other has almost all of the accountability.  Some assistant coaches go on to be good head coaches, but many don't.

And why is Wojo an exception to the analogy?  Kevin Ollie actually won a NC his first season after being a long time UConn assistant to Calhoun and you have posters on this forum questioning his long term viability.  Here's yet another example of complete homerism that occurs fairly regularly on this forum.

There was nothing "homer" about what I said.  You were the one that likened a dental assistant to an assistant coach.  I said why I thought that was wrong, or at best, just not a good analogy in Wojo's case.

Pakuni

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Celtic Truth

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2015, 10:59:48 AM »
Mullin just got 4star Juco PF Darien Williams. Williams committed to ISU this fall but followed Matt Abdelmassih to NYC

Golden Avalanche

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #115 on: April 09, 2015, 11:47:45 AM »
Mullin just got 4star Juco PF Darien Williams. Williams committed to ISU this fall but followed Matt Abdelmassih to NYC

Mullin hired Abdel knowing he'd be a package deal. He should ask Willard how that worked for him this past campaign.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #116 on: April 09, 2015, 12:05:00 PM »
Question for everyone falling all over Mullin's hire -

Name his sucesses since his retirement as a player? 

Isaiah Thomas stunk at everything he tried after his playing days were through.  Eddie Jordan, who had prior coaching experience, is working out poorly at his alma mater.  As I mentioned yesterday, Sidney Moncrief, great player, intelligent player, disaster when he tried to coach after never having done so, like Mullin will be trying.

Why does hype and a big name always cloud people's judgments?  And I'm talking almost any walk of life you care to name.

The marketing term is branding.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #117 on: April 09, 2015, 12:14:35 PM »
Mullin hired Abdel knowing he'd be a package deal. He should ask Willard how that worked for him this past campaign.

The situations are different.  Hiring an established Division I assistant with recruiting chops who brings along a guy he's been recruiting does not compare to bringing in a high school coach whose trying to make the jump to college.

Even the high school coach route can work out.  See DePaul and Billy Garrett sr. and jr.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Eldon

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2015, 12:49:29 AM »
In the short term, satisfying the boosters will lead to an influx of cash. Donations will be up, which *should* translate to more resources for Mullin's program. As far as recruiting, I really think it comes down to Slice Rohrssen. Get him in and recruiting truly will take care of itself. He won't allow any more of the handler BS than necessary.

Lavin's biggest problem I feel was that he never had a backup plan for anything. When he missed on his blue-chip targets, it wasn't like he got a bunch of fringe top-100 guys or solid 3-stars as replacements, he just got...no one. This year's St. John's team has freaking TWENTY guys listed on their roster, yet only 6 guys averaged double-digit minutes. Why? Because he filled out the scholarships with utter crap when he swung and missed. That's why St. John's was always underachieving, because while they had some truly spectacular top-end talent, the rest of their roster was a barren wasteland.

Strategy-wise it was the same. When the Johnnies could fly and run they could compete with anyone, but when they lost, more often than not, they lost bad. The majority of their losses under Lavin were by double-digits. Pretty much win or get embarrassed.

That alone doesn't mean Mullin will be an upgrade. He could certainly fall flat on his face. It will likely be a rough first year because the returning roster, especially if Obekpa and Jordan leave, will be inexperienced and talent-deficient. But he's Chris Mullin, so he'll be given time to learn. If he can coach half as well as he played, they'll be in great hands. If not, at least St. John's is trying, which is more than we can say of DePaul.

Saw Jet post this over on Holyland

@EvanDaniels: A source tells Scout that Barry "Slice" Rohrssen is finalizing a deal to become an assistant at St. John's to work for Chris Mullin.


brewcity77

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Re: Lavin out at St Johns
« Reply #119 on: April 13, 2015, 06:54:18 AM »
Saw Jet post this over on Holyland

@EvanDaniels: A source tells Scout that Barry "Slice" Rohrssen is finalizing a deal to become an assistant at St. John's to work for Chris Mullin.

St John's will be tough to beat in NYC with Slice and Abdelmassih. Could still use an experienced tactician, but recruiting shouldn't be a problem. Have a feeling this could land Cheick Diallo. SJU now has the guys that were leading his recruitment for Kentucky and Iowa State.
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