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Author Topic: Big East outlook  (Read 25065 times)

GGGG

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2015, 01:35:54 PM »
Why?  Because I think Wojo will be a dud?


No. 

But saying that his coaching cost Marquette "at least six games" isn't a very smart statement.

4everwarriors

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2015, 01:46:37 PM »
Here's the reality - outside of MU students, alumni and college basketball junkies people couldn't care less about a single NCAA championship that happened nearly 40 years ago.

The majority of this board has a serious case of bias concerning MU basketball.  The same people who discount UCLA as a blue blood for lack of recent success despite their illustrious history fail to understand that they've been far more successful the last 15 years than Marquette during that same stretch and would seriously consider Marquette a better program currently despite it being completely false (it's not even close).

The propensity to over value players who have yet to even put on a Marquette jersey yet at the same time dismiss any player who leaves the program as being completely void of talent is beyond laughable and requires a complete logical disconnect.  The same thing happens with coaches.  Our last two coaches who led the university to it's best sustained success since the 70's are both regularly trashed on this board and an overrated point guard who led Duke to it's worst four seasons in the last 25 years who outside of assembling a quality recruiting class has been out coached by nearly everyone else in the conference yet the completely unearned faith Wojo's been granted by this board is baffling.  Outside of taking horrible technical fouls, shaking his fists in frustration every time an opposing player made a basket and implementing a 2-3 zone which EVERY decent basketball coach could teach their team, he was completely outclassed by almost every conference head coach this season.  It's really ironic too considering when Wojo either leaves for a different job or is asked to leave these same people will be the first to trash whatever he's done for the program due to this completely irrational belief that Marquette is a program at the pinnacle of college basketball.

Right now the reality is that Wojo is closer to being replaced for lack of results than leaving for a better opportunity, which should ease those of you who fret about Marquette being a stepping stone job.

Some of you guys would greatly benefit from letting go of your completely unfounded and unrealistic view of the state of Marquette basketball and simply root for your team without the delusions of grandeur.



Wow dude, respect the process, hey? Steve was left with jock itch and no Gold Bond anywhere.
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willie warrior

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2015, 02:31:16 PM »


Wow dude, respect the process, hey? Steve was left with jock itch and no Gold Bond anywhere.
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BM1090

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2015, 02:35:07 PM »
Why?  Because I think Wojo will be a dud?

This forum has a topic regarding Jay Wright and JTIII and speculating on what their lack of recent success in the NCAAT means for their jobs and I'm bringing stupid to a whole new level?

Add Jay Wright and JTIII to the list of coaches I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for.

Wojo has some improvement needed as an in game coach, especially late in games. That said, we had the worst roster in the league and it wasn't that close. DePaul had much more talent and even Creighton had a good facilitating point guard and shooters all around. We had three capable big east level players.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2015, 10:42:02 AM »
I think anyone trying to make a definitive statement on how good of a coach Wojo will be at this point, whether good or bad, is on a fool's errand. Be optimistic or be pessimistic, but just know there is next to no relevant data to actually base that on. He's got two more seasons before we can get a really good sense of his ability as a coach....and 5 years to make a final judgement  ;D
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Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2015, 11:23:53 AM »
Here's the reality - outside of MU students, alumni and college basketball junkies people couldn't care less about a single NCAA championship that happened nearly 40 years ago.

The majority of this board has a serious case of bias concerning MU basketball.  The same people who discount UCLA as a blue blood for lack of recent success despite their illustrious history fail to understand that they've been far more successful the last 15 years than Marquette during that same stretch and would seriously consider Marquette a better program currently despite it being completely false (it's not even close).

The propensity to over value players who have yet to even put on a Marquette jersey yet at the same time dismiss any player who leaves the program as being completely void of talent is beyond laughable and requires a complete logical disconnect.  The same thing happens with coaches.  Our last two coaches who led the university to it's best sustained success since the 70's are both regularly trashed on this board and an overrated point guard who led Duke to it's worst four seasons in the last 25 years who outside of assembling a quality recruiting class has been out coached by nearly everyone else in the conference yet the completely unearned faith Wojo's been granted by this board is baffling.  Outside of taking horrible technical fouls, shaking his fists in frustration every time an opposing player made a basket and implementing a 2-3 zone which EVERY decent basketball coach could teach their team, he was completely outclassed by almost every conference head coach this season.  It's really ironic too considering when Wojo either leaves for a different job or is asked to leave these same people will be the first to trash whatever he's done for the program due to this completely irrational belief that Marquette is a program at the pinnacle of college basketball.

Right now the reality is that Wojo is closer to being replaced for lack of results than leaving for a better opportunity, which should ease those of you who fret about Marquette being a stepping stone job.

Some of you guys would greatly benefit from letting go of your completely unfounded and unrealistic view of the state of Marquette basketball and simply root for your team without the delusions of grandeur.

You actually bring up some good points, but I think your judgement on Wojo is just too quick.

If MU looks bad for all of next season, and more guys leave, then I think you are 100% correct. I will be very concerned.

But, as it stands right now, I just think it's an "incomplete".  We've seen some flashes of good, and some flashes of learning on the job.

Maybe a better question would be: What could Wojo have done different/better to make you more confident in his abilities? If the answer is a generic "Win more!", well, then we're just doing some meatball fan stuff. If you want to go through a legitimate evaluation of his coaching, well, then that's actually a good off season topic. Maybe we should all do a report card.

mattyv1908

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2015, 12:24:15 PM »
You actually bring up some good points, but I think your judgement on Wojo is just too quick.

If MU looks bad for all of next season, and more guys leave, then I think you are 100% correct. I will be very concerned.

But, as it stands right now, I just think it's an "incomplete".  We've seen some flashes of good, and some flashes of learning on the job.

Maybe a better question would be: What could Wojo have done different/better to make you more confident in his abilities? If the answer is a generic "Win more!", well, then we're just doing some meatball fan stuff. If you want to go through a legitimate evaluation of his coaching, well, then that's actually a good off season topic. Maybe we should all do a report card.


@ Canned-

My biggest problem is not with Wojo himself, it's the propensity of this board to instantly fall head over heels with any new coach/player with religious ferver and as soon as said coach/player is no longer with the program those same people are the first to discredit any accomplishment/value/potential that they so vigorously supported.  It reeks of both insecurity and immaturity.

That said, there's several areas I think Wojo needs to significantly improve on as an in game coach (recruiting thus far has been excellent but let's see how the future classes look moving forward).

1.  Bad technical fouls - sometimes they're a motivator for a good team.  Unfortunately, when your team is challenged at putting up points and the game is in reach I think almost every technical he earned hurt the team's chances of winning.

2.  Half time adjustments - Numerous times this season we saw opponents who struggled or were challenged by something we were doing in the first half only to come out of halftime having solved whatever wrinkle we were having success with.  There was no adjusting the plan after that point.  It almost seemed as if Wojo coached up a decent initial game plan yet stuck with it either far too long or never changed it up at all.

3.  No killer instinct - How many decent sized late game leads did this team give up by going into a conservative shell?  Wojo was constantly taking the air out of the ball with far too much time left, which undermines everything that was going well for the team all game.

3a.  After giving up a late lead - To piggyback on the last point, once the lead was squandered away by being too conservative it seemed Wojo's answer to try and regain the lead was to put the ball in Carlino's hands in a pseudo isolation set which is the exact opposite of when Marquette's offense was functioning at it's best.  Carlino is much more effective off the ball using screeners to generate space to hit shots.  No efforts to get a good look for Luke inside.

4.  Not utilizing Luke and Steve on the court together more - This is the only aspect of the rotation that I'll bring up I was unhappy with.  It was clearly obvious that both players played much better when they were on the court together.  Our rebounding improved, we had a good high/low game (Anderson never was suited for that), and it limited most double teams that really were effective against Luke.  I'm sure foul concerns were a factor, but IMO when you're struggling to win I think it's worth the risk that one of those guys may foul out with 3-4 minutes remaining if it means we have a better line up on the court.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 12:26:41 PM by mattyv1908 »
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GGGG

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2015, 12:44:43 PM »
@ Canned-

My biggest problem is not with Wojo himself, it's the propensity of this board to instantly fall head over heels with any new coach/player with religious ferver and as soon as said coach/player is no longer with the program those same people are the first to discredit any accomplishment/value/potential that they so vigorously supported.  It reeks of both insecurity and immaturity.

That said, there's several areas I think Wojo needs to significantly improve on as an in game coach (recruiting thus far has been excellent but let's see how the future classes look moving forward).

1.  Bad technical fouls - sometimes they're a motivator for a good team.  Unfortunately, when your team is challenged at putting up points and the game is in reach I think almost every technical he earned hurt the team's chances of winning.

2.  Half time adjustments - Numerous times this season we saw opponents who struggled or were challenged by something we were doing in the first half only to come out of halftime having solved whatever wrinkle we were having success with.  There was no adjusting the plan after that point.  It almost seemed as if Wojo coached up a decent initial game plan yet stuck with it either far too long or never changed it up at all.

3.  No killer instinct - How many decent sized late game leads did this team give up by going into a conservative shell?  Wojo was constantly taking the air out of the ball with far too much time left, which undermines everything that was going well for the team all game.

3a.  After giving up a late lead - To piggyback on the last point, once the lead was squandered away by being too conservative it seemed Wojo's answer to try and regain the lead was to put the ball in Carlino's hands in a pseudo isolation set which is the exact opposite of when Marquette's offense was functioning at it's best.  Carlino is much more effective off the ball using screeners to generate space to hit shots.  No efforts to get a good look for Luke inside.

4.  Not utilizing Luke and Steve on the court together more - This is the only aspect of the rotation that I'll bring up I was unhappy with.  It was clearly obvious that both players played much better when they were on the court together.  Our rebounding improved, we had a good high/low game (Anderson never was suited for that), and it limited most double teams that really were effective against Luke.  I'm sure foul concerns were a factor, but IMO when you're struggling to win I think it's worth the risk that one of those guys may foul out with 3-4 minutes remaining if it means we have a better line up on the court.


I like this post a lot.  

1.  I completely agree with this.

2.  Was it sticking with the game plan too long?  Or was it lack of depth that prevented other options?  I tend to think it was a combination of both - that the latter caused the former.  I guess we will have to see as the next couple of years play out.

3. and 3a.  I agree in part.  I don't think there were many of these instances however.  @DePaul and v. Butler are the two that stand out to me.

4.  Agree.


Now I am going to take issue with what you said above: "My biggest problem is not with Wojo himself"

Yet here are some things you said about Wojo in this very thread.

  • "I personally think the guy (Wojo) is in over his head."
  • "Watching mid major teams this weekend with limited talent show significantly better basketball IQ by both their players and coaches than our coaching staff and team this season is embarrassing."
  • "... he was completely outclassed by almost every conference head coach this season."

So if your real problem is "the propensity of this board to instantly fall head over heels with any new coach/player with religious ferver," why are you making these kind of statements about Wojo?  Hyperbole?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 12:46:27 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2015, 01:01:16 PM »
The last two posts are spot on.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2015, 01:21:50 PM »

My biggest problem is not with Wojo himself, it's the propensity of this board to instantly fall head over heels with any new coach/player with religious ferver and as soon as said coach/player is no longer with the program those same people are the first to discredit any accomplishment/value/potential that they so vigorously supported.  It reeks of both insecurity and immaturity.


For what it's worth, the propensities you mention exist on every team's message board. 

You do realize that the term "fan" was derived from "fanatic," right?

mattyv1908

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2015, 01:47:02 PM »
Sultan, I'll attempt to clarify.

There's nothing about the guy that I've seen that warrants the unquestioning faith people have given him.  He looked like a rookie coach who often times got outcoached.  He looked frustrated and at times not having any answers.  Watching the NCAAT and specifically the coaches and teams who were heavy underdogs you could see the difference in coaching on display.

Eastern Washington against Georgetown is a perfect example.  Early first half.  It's obvious the size advantage that the Hoyas have.  Immediately the EWU guards take the ball right at Smith and subsequently Thompson forcing both to sit with two fouls.  It's smart basketball and that type of situational awareness was lacking from this year's team.  Maybe some of that is on the players, but it's also on the coaching staff as they are the ones responsible for player development.  Not everyone on this team was a high level player, but that doesn't disqualify them from understanding the game.

I don't think the team 'underachieved' from an overall record standpoint, but there certainly wasn't any overachieving either.  I think the jury is out on Wojo, but I'm hesitant to shower unearned praise on a guy who hasn't shown anything to warrant it.
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dgies9156

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2015, 01:51:12 PM »
Here's the reality - outside of MU students, alumni and college basketball junkies people couldn't care less about a single NCAA championship that happened nearly 40 years ago.
The majority of this board has a serious case of bias concerning MU basketball.  

I plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of Scoop.

I'm parsing your comments into two categories. One is that I agree that it has been 38 years since we won it all. I know it seems like yesterday for me but all I have to do to realize how long it has been is to look in the mirror and see the lack of hair and the increase in thickness across the middle of my body from the night we won it all! It's nice to remember but it has been ages. Marquette is a different place now than it was then. The NCAA is different now than it was then and college basketball is different.

I strongly disagree with you on Wojo. What did you realistically expect? An NCAA berth? Playing next weekend? C'mon. He overhauled the program. With eight players who were worn to the ground by the time the game was over, I thought he did an excellent job working with what he had. Matt Carlino was an incredible finger in the dike. Without him -- and I doubt the guy would have come here without Wojo -- I don't think we would have won eight games.

You must be a young whippersnapper since I don't think you realize how bad Al's first season was. He did the same thing Wojo did. Get his own guys. Market the school as best he can and get folks who could play the game the way he wanted to have it played. Two years later, we lost in the finals of the NIT (which was a much bigger deal then than now) and the year after we started our post-season string.

Patience is a virtue. While I want an NCAA Championship banner in the Bradley Center too (that 1977 one does look kinda lonely up there), we need to at least give Wojo the chance to grow and get his guys in here. I'd like to think we will be dancing a year from now and I hope we will be. But I also want a program we can be proud of that's on the front pages of our local newsrag here in Chicago because we won something special and not because one of our athletes did things they should ought not be doing.

brewcity77

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2015, 01:52:51 PM »
I remember three technical fouls he took. Two of them I remember us finally getting some whistles after the technicals. The third was a total disaster and the calls against us actually seemed to get worse.

I'd have to look back, but I don't think each technical killed our chances of winning.
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JWags85

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2015, 01:56:24 PM »
After watching Duke yesterday, Wojo's end of game strategy is clearly a reflection of Coach K's preference of "shortening" the game with a healthy lead in the second half, which the announcers were falling all over him for.  The difference is that, as mentioned, with an offensively challenged team, you can't get the buckets at will deep in the clock and you lose all rhythm and momentum.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2015, 02:21:50 PM »
@ Canned-

My biggest problem is not with Wojo himself, it's the propensity of this board to instantly fall head over heels with any new coach/player with religious ferver and as soon as said coach/player is no longer with the program those same people are the first to discredit any accomplishment/value/potential that they so vigorously supported.  It reeks of both insecurity and immaturity.

That said, there's several areas I think Wojo needs to significantly improve on as an in game coach (recruiting thus far has been excellent but let's see how the future classes look moving forward).

1.  Bad technical fouls - sometimes they're a motivator for a good team.  Unfortunately, when your team is challenged at putting up points and the game is in reach I think almost every technical he earned hurt the team's chances of winning.

2.  Half time adjustments - Numerous times this season we saw opponents who struggled or were challenged by something we were doing in the first half only to come out of halftime having solved whatever wrinkle we were having success with.  There was no adjusting the plan after that point.  It almost seemed as if Wojo coached up a decent initial game plan yet stuck with it either far too long or never changed it up at all.

3.  No killer instinct - How many decent sized late game leads did this team give up by going into a conservative shell?  Wojo was constantly taking the air out of the ball with far too much time left, which undermines everything that was going well for the team all game.

3a.  After giving up a late lead - To piggyback on the last point, once the lead was squandered away by being too conservative it seemed Wojo's answer to try and regain the lead was to put the ball in Carlino's hands in a pseudo isolation set which is the exact opposite of when Marquette's offense was functioning at it's best.  Carlino is much more effective off the ball using screeners to generate space to hit shots.  No efforts to get a good look for Luke inside.

4.  Not utilizing Luke and Steve on the court together more - This is the only aspect of the rotation that I'll bring up I was unhappy with.  It was clearly obvious that both players played much better when they were on the court together.  Our rebounding improved, we had a good high/low game (Anderson never was suited for that), and it limited most double teams that really were effective against Luke.  I'm sure foul concerns were a factor, but IMO when you're struggling to win I think it's worth the risk that one of those guys may foul out with 3-4 minutes remaining if it means we have a better line up on the court.

The critiques are fair, and I agree that Wojo isn't above reproach.

However, I think some of your frustration is just coming through your keyboard and that's why people are reacting to you. 

To address your specific points above, I suspect that several of those issues are roster driven, so I'd like to see how he does with his own players.

Give Wojo a roster full of his own players, and let's see what happens. I used to say 4 or 5 years to evaluate a coach. I was wrong.

In the modern day, it's probably more like 3. So lets give Wojo 2 more years, and then we'll have an idea if we should be nominating him for canonization, or running him out of town.

As for your specific point about Georgetown getting attacked by guards, I mean, you're right, but I don't think hoops is that easy. If it was, Wojo could just say "Derrick, go get them in foul trouble!" and then it would happen, right?

I assume MU was TRYING to do a lot of the right "stuff" this season, but unfortunately, they just weren't up to the task from a personnel, gameplan or execution perspective. Certainly some of that falls on Wojo, but I also don't know if you can made chicken salad out of chicken S in a few months.

As uncomfortable as it is, we just have to give the coach some time. Frustrating sometimes, but that's life.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2015, 04:24:09 PM »
Sultan, I'll attempt to clarify.

There's nothing about the guy that I've seen that warrants the unquestioning faith people have given him.  He looked like a rookie coach who often times got outcoached.  He looked frustrated and at times not having any answers.  Watching the NCAAT and specifically the coaches and teams who were heavy underdogs you could see the difference in coaching on display.

Eastern Washington against Georgetown is a perfect example.  Early first half.  It's obvious the size advantage that the Hoyas have.  Immediately the EWU guards take the ball right at Smith and subsequently Thompson forcing both to sit with two fouls.  It's smart basketball and that type of situational awareness was lacking from this year's team.  Maybe some of that is on the players, but it's also on the coaching staff as they are the ones responsible for player development.  Not everyone on this team was a high level player, but that doesn't disqualify them from understanding the game.

I don't think the team 'underachieved' from an overall record standpoint, but there certainly wasn't any overachieving either.  I think the jury is out on Wojo, but I'm hesitant to shower unearned praise on a guy who hasn't shown anything to warrant it.

He looked like a rookie coach...because he WAS a rookie coach.  Yes, he made mistakes and got outcoached by guys with way more experience, but that's what rookie coaches do.  See, e.g., Krzyzewski, Mike.

The optimism is due to the fact that we think he has the background to grow into a very good D-1 head coach.  The alternative - assuming he's going to suck because he made rookie mistakes as a rookie - just doesn't sound all that much fun.

If we had hired Ben Howland, Shaka Smart or Cuonzo Martin and they made rookie mistakes, I'd be pretty damn nervous right now.  As it is, we got what I expected from a rookie: rookie coaching.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 04:29:05 PM by GooooMarquette »

GGGG

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2015, 04:27:21 PM »
He looked like a rookie coach...because he WAS a rookie coach.  Yes, he made mistakes and got outcoached by guys with way more experience, but that's what rookie coaches do.  See, e.g., Krzyzewski, Mike.

The optimism is due to the fact that we think he has the background to grow into a very good D-1 head coach.  The alternative - assuming he's going to suck because he made rookie mistakes as a rookie - just doesn't sound all that much fun.


That and the fact that he's put together a nice haul in his first recruiting class.

Every single one of us likely made dumb mistakes their first few months on the job.  But it is very likely that we all improved in part due the wisdom that experience brings.

I gave him an incomplete for the year.  Let's just see where this goes.

WarriorHal

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2015, 04:40:07 PM »
I plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of Scoop.

I'm parsing your comments into two categories. One is that I agree that it has been 38 years since we won it all. I know it seems like yesterday for me but all I have to do to realize how long it has been is to look in the mirror and see the lack of hair and the increase in thickness across the middle of my body from the night we won it all! It's nice to remember but it has been ages. Marquette is a different place now than it was then. The NCAA is different now than it was then and college basketball is different.

I strongly disagree with you on Wojo. What did you realistically expect? An NCAA berth? Playing next weekend? C'mon. He overhauled the program. With eight players who were worn to the ground by the time the game was over, I thought he did an excellent job working with what he had. Matt Carlino was an incredible finger in the dike. Without him -- and I doubt the guy would have come here without Wojo -- I don't think we would have won eight games.

You must be a young whippersnapper since I don't think you realize how bad Al's first season was. He did the same thing Wojo did. Get his own guys. Market the school as best he can and get folks who could play the game the way he wanted to have it played. Two years later, we lost in the finals of the NIT (which was a much bigger deal then than now) and the year after we started our post-season string.

Patience is a virtue. While I want an NCAA Championship banner in the Bradley Center too (that 1977 one does look kinda lonely up there), we need to at least give Wojo the chance to grow and get his guys in here. I'd like to think we will be dancing a year from now and I hope we will be. But I also want a program we can be proud of that's on the front pages of our local newsrag here in Chicago because we won something special and not because one of our athletes did things they should ought not be doing.

As a fellow old-timer (1977 grad), I say Amen! The fact that Wojo was able to recruit a top-10 nationally ranked recruiting class as a rookie head coach is reason for a lot of optimism for the future. As you point out, it takes some time. Al inherited a nothing program and went 8-18 and 14-12 in his first two seasons (freshmen were ineligible) and then 21-9. The alternative to having no faith in Wojo is way too horrible to even consider!

JakeBarnes

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2015, 04:40:54 PM »

That and the fact that he's put together a nice haul in his first recruiting class.

Every single one of us likely made dumb mistakes their first few months on the job.  But it is very likely that we all improved in part due the wisdom that experience brings.

I gave him an incomplete for the year.  Let's just see where this goes.

I also recruited McD All-Americans in my first year to make my job performance better too...
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


jesmu84

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2015, 06:03:19 PM »
Sultan, I'll attempt to clarify.

There's nothing about the guy that I've seen that warrants the unquestioning faith people have given him.  He looked like a rookie coach who often times got outcoached.  He looked frustrated and at times not having any answers.  Watching the NCAAT and specifically the coaches and teams who were heavy underdogs you could see the difference in coaching on display.

Eastern Washington against Georgetown is a perfect example.  Early first half.  It's obvious the size advantage that the Hoyas have.  Immediately the EWU guards take the ball right at Smith and subsequently Thompson forcing both to sit with two fouls.  It's smart basketball and that type of situational awareness was lacking from this year's team.  Maybe some of that is on the players, but it's also on the coaching staff as they are the ones responsible for player development.  Not everyone on this team was a high level player, but that doesn't disqualify them from understanding the game.

I don't think the team 'underachieved' from an overall record standpoint, but there certainly wasn't any overachieving either.  I think the jury is out on Wojo, but I'm hesitant to shower unearned praise on a guy who hasn't shown anything to warrant it.

You're not wrong. But you do realize that's the psychology of new relationships, right? Like every new dating couple, puppy love, etc.

dgies9156

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2015, 11:05:38 PM »
The alternative to having no faith in Wojo is way too horrible to even consider!

It's called the Dukiet years. And you are right. If that happens, we might as well hire Jean Lenti-Ponsetto after DePaul finally gets smart and fires her.

Wojo is our guy. His recruiting so far is first rate. I was scared to death when things fell apart after Buzz left. I'm not scared anymore and hope we build into something special.

1978 grad here, by the way.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2015, 11:22:06 PM »
4 to 5 full years will give you the answer.

Way too early

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2015, 02:04:33 PM »
4 to 5 full years will give you the answer.

Way too early

Yes and no.

I'd like to see a coach have a run at getting his own guys and having his own seniors before I really place a stamp on him. (he sucks vs he's great) (4 to 5 years).

HOWEVER

In the modern world of college basketball, after 2 or 3 recruiting classes, we have a pretty good indication of the incoming talent, and hopefully after 3 seasons have a decent idea of the coaching abilities.

I'm not saying 3 seasons is DEFINITELY enough, but an AD who is observing closely should have a pretty good idea of where things are headed after 3 seasons... especially at MU. Wojo is building a team and a culture, but he's not really rebuilding the program (like DePaul). A lot of stuff at MU is already in place (faculties, budget, plane, staff, etc.).

BCHoopster

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2015, 02:41:22 PM »
Yes and no.

I'd like to see a coach have a run at getting his own guys and having his own seniors before I really place a stamp on him. (he sucks vs he's great) (4 to 5 years).

HOWEVER

In the modern world of college basketball, after 2 or 3 recruiting classes, we have a pretty good indication of the incoming talent, and hopefully after 3 seasons have a decent idea of the coaching abilities.

I'm not saying 3 seasons is DEFINITELY enough, but an AD who is observing closely should have a pretty good idea of where things are headed after 3 seasons... especially at MU. Wojo is building a team and a culture, but he's not really rebuilding the program (like DePaul). A lot of stuff at MU is already in place (faculties, budget, plane, staff, etc.).

At the end of games, you need a point guard who could make a play, good pass, all things Derrick could not do.  Traci Carter or somebody else at that spot will make Wojo a good coach.  Coach K almost got kicked out of Duke his first few years, it is never easy the first few years and the cupboard was bare.  It was bare for Al until he recruited one player, George Thompson,
then Dean, etc.  Might be same recruiting Ellenson, will see.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Big East outlook
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2015, 04:23:05 PM »
How could you have Marquette in the good section. We were terrible in our first year with wojo, worse than what we expected for the most part. And what makes you think we have a solid sustained coach in wojo?

The power of observation.  Perspective.  "worse than what we expected for the most part" indicates how unrealistic your evaluations can be.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 04:25:32 PM by LittleWade »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.