Big East outlook

[mattyv1908]

I'm not sold on Cooley.  Besides the turd last night Providence turned in against a weak Dayton team, one of our meager 4 regular season conference win total came against them.  They had a nice year, but his success so far there has been quite underwhelming.  I think he's yet to win an NCAA game, and last night on paper should have been a walk in the park for them.

If I were being generous, I would have put Providence as a maybe.  But no way do I consider them a Have program.

I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for just Cooley without batting an eye.

[wadesworld]

I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for just Cooley without batting an eye.

Wow.

[wadesworld]

I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for just Cooley without batting an eye.

This might literally be the dumbest thing I've ever read on Scoop. And there have been some good ones.

Ed Cooley has as many NCAA tournament wins as Wojo does...and Wojo has 13 total wins as a head coach.

[Eldon]

I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for just Cooley without batting an eye.

[mattyv1908]

This might literally be the dumbest thing I've ever read on Scoop. And there have been some good ones.

Ed Cooley has as many NCAA tournament wins as Wojo does...and Wojo has 13 total wins as a head coach.

I personally think the guy (Wojo) is in over his head.  Watching mid major teams this weekend with limited talent show significantly better basketball IQ by both their players and coaches than our coaching staff and team this season is embarrassing.  I hope I'm wrong.

[🏀]

I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for just Cooley without batting an eye.

[🏀]

I personally think the guy (Wojo) is in over his head.  Watching mid major teams this weekend with limited talent show significantly better basketball IQ by both their players and coaches than our coaching staff and team this season is embarrassing.  I hope I'm wrong.

Mid-major teams, with full rosters, that have been playing together for years, under the same head coach are doing better than Wojo with half a roster of players he met less than a year ago.

Color me shocked.

Your basketball IQ statement could not be more incorrect as these players showed great leaps in knowledge as the year progressed, even Derrick and Juan.

[HutchwasClutch]

I personally think the guy (Wojo) is in over his head.  Watching mid major teams this weekend with limited talent show significantly better basketball IQ by both their players and coaches than our coaching staff and team this season is embarrassing.  I hope I'm wrong.

Just go ahead and admit your strong anti-Duke bias so at least everyone knows where you're coming from when you make statements like you've made here.  You hate Duke, and now you're stuck rooting for a guy that has spent almost his entire adult life part of the Duke program you despise.  Nothing wrong with being anti-Duke, lots of people don't like them.  But you're letting that blind your judgment into absurd statements.

By the way, your pre-tourney prediction of St. John's knocking off Duke, I think your words were "Duke sh**ting the bed", so have you now just inserted Dayton into that same prediction?  

[mattyv1908]

Here's the reality - outside of MU students, alumni and college basketball junkies people couldn't care less about a single NCAA championship that happened nearly 40 years ago.

The majority of this board has a serious case of bias concerning MU basketball.  The same people who discount UCLA as a blue blood for lack of recent success despite their illustrious history fail to understand that they've been far more successful the last 15 years than Marquette during that same stretch and would seriously consider Marquette a better program currently despite it being completely false (it's not even close).

The propensity to over value players who have yet to even put on a Marquette jersey yet at the same time dismiss any player who leaves the program as being completely void of talent is beyond laughable and requires a complete logical disconnect.  The same thing happens with coaches.  Our last two coaches who led the university to it's best sustained success since the 70's are both regularly trashed on this board and an overrated point guard who led Duke to it's worst four seasons in the last 25 years who outside of assembling a quality recruiting class has been out coached by nearly everyone else in the conference yet the completely unearned faith Wojo's been granted by this board is baffling.  Outside of taking horrible technical fouls, shaking his fists in frustration every time an opposing player made a basket and implementing a 2-3 zone which EVERY decent basketball coach could teach their team, he was completely outclassed by almost every conference head coach this season.  It's really ironic too considering when Wojo either leaves for a different job or is asked to leave these same people will be the first to trash whatever he's done for the program due to this completely irrational belief that Marquette is a program at the pinnacle of college basketball.

Right now the reality is that Wojo is closer to being replaced for lack of results than leaving for a better opportunity, which should ease those of you who fret about Marquette being a stepping stone job.

Some of you guys would greatly benefit from letting go of your completely unfounded and unrealistic view of the state of Marquette basketball and simply root for your team without the delusions of grandeur.

[onepost]

I personally think the guy (Wojo) is in over his head.  Watching mid major teams this weekend with limited talent show significantly better basketball IQ by both their players and coaches than our coaching staff and team this season is embarrassing.  I hope I'm wrong.

Our. Team. This. Year. Was. No. Good. The. Cupboard. Was. Comically. Barren. (in regards to what Wojo feels he needs)
Seriously, how many times do we have to unnatural carnal knowledgeing go over this.  All this year was, in essence, was Wojo putting his stamp on a program and COMPLETELY changing the culture.  We suffered some casualties (Deonte jumping ship), and lost a number of guys (Levin, Mayo, Dawson, Noskowiak, Taylor), but that's looking at things short sighted.  You cannot get 2 coaches who differ more greatly than Buzz and Wojo.  Period.  With the way they recruit players, who they recruit, to the way they handle administration and the athletic department, what they expect of players off the court, etc.  And people just thought the transition would be seamless and we would greatly contend from Day 1??  Get the hell out of here.

Wojo knows what he wants in terms of player, and guys who don't fit that mold are no longer here.  Plain and simple.  It was absolutely vital for him to bring in HIS guys, and he went out and signed a Top 5 recruiting class immediately.  Not only that, but we now have a young core (albeit, currently on the mend) in Duane and Luke who will be two of the better players in the Big East from here on out.  What more can you ask for?  On-court, we were very competitive in every game this year with no depth, no height until Luke, inexperienced talent and experienced frustration.  And yet we held our own and very well could have pulled off another 5 or so wins this year.  Then Carlino went down for 3 weeks, Juan was injured for a while, Luke was playing all year with a bum shoulder.  So we struggled mightily all year.  It happens.  This year was a throwaway.  To even suggest we know what kind of coach Wojo is and how he will fare based off of what he had this year is laughable.  The dude knows Xs and Os as well as anyone, has shown he has the chops to go out and get phenomenal prospects, and most importantly, he's going about it the right way.

I ran into Carlino this week and thought I'd ask how his year went and if he regretted coming here because of how lousy we were.  He said his time at Marquette was better than any other stop he'd made, that Wojo was the best man and coach he has played for in his playing career, and that the guy was going to be an absolute stud here at Marquette.  This was par for the course with what I've heard from a number of people close to and around the bball squad.  I'm 100% sold and have seen nothing yet to suggest otherwise.

[mattyv1908]

Just go ahead and admit your strong anti-Duke bias so at least everyone knows where you're coming from when you make statements like you've made here.  You hate Duke, and now you're stuck rooting for a guy that has spent almost his entire adult life part of the Duke program you despise.  Nothing wrong with being anti-Duke, lots of people don't like them.  But you're letting that blind your judgment into absurd statements.

By the way, your pre-tourney prediction of St. John's knocking off Duke, I think your words were "Duke sh**ting the bed", so have you now just inserted Dayton into that same prediction?  

My statement actually was IF (and that's a big if) St John's can get by their opening round game that they present a difficult match up for Duke.

Of course comprehending what others are saying has always been difficult for you so I'd expect nothing less.  Besides, anyone who has made a comment not in teal about Sandy Cohen having the skill set to play point guard is either clueless or bat sh!t crazy.

[real chili 83]

Here's the reality - outside of MU students, alumni and college basketball junkies people couldn't care less about a single NCAA championship that happened nearly 40 years ago.

The majority of this board has a serious case of bias concerning MU basketball.  The same people who discount UCLA as a blue blood for lack of recent success despite their illustrious history fail to understand that they've been far more successful the last 15 years than Marquette during that same stretch and would seriously consider Marquette a better program currently despite it being completely false (it's not even close).

The propensity to over value players who have yet to even put on a Marquette jersey yet at the same time dismiss any player who leaves the program as being completely void of talent is beyond laughable and requires a complete logical disconnect.  The same thing happens with coaches.  Our last two coaches who led the university to it's best sustained success since the 70's are both regularly trashed on this board and an overrated point guard who led Duke to it's worst four seasons in the last 25 years who outside of assembling a quality recruiting class has been out coached by nearly everyone else in the conference yet the completely unearned faith Wojo's been granted by this board is baffling.  Outside of taking horrible technical fouls, shaking his fists in frustration every time an opposing player made a basket and implementing a 2-3 zone which EVERY decent basketball coach could teach their team, he was completely outclassed by almost every conference head coach this season.  It's really ironic too considering when Wojo either leaves for a different job or is asked to leave these same people will be the first to trash whatever he's done for the program due to this completely irrational belief that Marquette is a program at the pinnacle of college basketball.

Right now the reality is that Wojo is closer to being replaced for lack of results than leaving for a better opportunity, which should ease those of you who fret about Marquette being a stepping stone job.

Some of you guys would greatly benefit from letting go of your completely unfounded and unrealistic view of the state of Marquette basketball and simply root for your team without the delusions of grandeur.

Are you Ners's kid?

[HutchwasClutch]

My statement actually was IF (and that's a big if) St John's can get by their opening round game that they present a difficult match up for Duke.

Of course comprehending what others are saying has always been difficult for you so I'd expect nothing less.  Besides, anyone who has made a comment not in teal about Sandy Cohen having the skill set to play point guard is either clueless or bat sh!t crazy.

Thank-you for offering zero denial of my claim that all your anti-Wojo venom is just your huge anti-Duke bias manifested. 

"clueless or bat shi*t crazy" - you've started that debate about yourself reading your posts in this thread alone.  Congratulations.

[HutchwasClutch]

My statement actually was IF (and that's a big if) St John's can get by their opening round game that they present a difficult match up for Duke.

Of course comprehending what others are saying has always been difficult for you so I'd expect nothing less.  Besides, anyone who has made a comment not in teal about Sandy Cohen having the skill set to play point guard is either clueless or bat sh!t crazy.

Cohen does have the skills to play PG in spots during his MU career.  I never stated he's going to be our full-time PG at some point.  I've seen him in non MU game action as well to reach that conclusion.   We'll see, I'm not holding that opinion as if it's indisputable, or a guarantee.   I know I'm in a very small minority right now holding that opinion. I was also in a very small minority, I think a minority of one, on the board this summer that said JJJ is overrated.  Sometimes being right is lonely.

[MU72491]

How could you have Marquette in the good section. We were terrible in our first year with wojo, worse than what we expected for the most part. And what makes you think we have a solid sustained coach in wojo?

[GGGG]

Cohen does have the skills to play PG in spots during his MU career.  I never stated he's going to be our full-time PG at some point.  I've seen him in non MU game action to reach that conclusion.   We'll see, I'm not holding that opinion as if it's indisputable, or a guarantee.   I know I'm in a very small minority right now holding that opinion. I was also in a very small minority, I think a minority of one, on the board this summer that said JJJ is overrated.  Sometimes being right is lonely.

I had my concerns about JJJ as well.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45056.msg659446#msg659446

[HutchwasClutch]

I had my concerns about JJJ as well.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45056.msg659446#msg659446

Fair enough - a very small minority is the correct statement then.

[Loose Cannon]

I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for just Cooley without batting an eye.

  MUScoop is here for most anyone.......Good or Bad.......Smart or Dumb.....Exhibit One!

[mattyv1908]

Seriously guys, Wojo made everyone not named Purnell and Willard look like geniuses.

Anybody who actually watched this season knows that poor in game coaching (particularly late game) cost this team at least six wins.  There is a huge difference between being an assistant coach for one of the all time great coaches and actually being a good coach yourself.  Wojo has successfully ridden coach K's coattails, but nothing he's done so far suggests he's even an average in game basketball coach.

[muwarrior69]

Big East programs - those in good hands, i.e. solid coaches leading their programs, highly likely for sustained success -

The Haves
MU
Villanova
Creighton
Georgetown
Xavier

The Have Nots
Seton Hall  (Willard is a bad coach - their performances in two losses to us this year, just reeked of a poorly coached team, undiscplined, negative body language on many players, couldn't figure out that Carlino couldn't be left open and he killed them in NY)
Providence
DePaul
St. John's (not sold at all on Lavin, he can recruit, but plenty of talent this year and really up and down year for them)


Maybe
Butler - great first year for their new coach, don't know enough about him, or seen them play enough to have a strong opinion yet.  They seem to likely be a Have program however.  But Holtman got the gig under very difficult circumstances, hard for me to believe what they've done this year is a fluke.

Have at it MU Nation

I don't like putting any of the teams into categories. My hope is that they all become competitive. Sure some will have to be at the bottom and some at the top. As Ben Franklin said: Either we all hang together or we will all hang separately.

[GGGG]

Seriously guys, Wojo made everyone not named Purnell and Willard look like geniuses.

Anybody who actually watched this season knows that poor in game coaching (particularly late game) cost this team at least six wins.  There is a huge difference between being an assistant coach for one of the all time great coaches and actually being a good coach yourself.  Wojo has successfully ridden coach K's coattails, but nothing he's done so far suggests he's even an average in game basketball coach.

I am certainly not saying that he was fantastic, but Wojo's game coaching did not cost Marquette "at least six wins."  And I watched every game but two.

I saw a coach of a team that had limited options, especially on the offensive end.  I saw a coach who made adjustments as the season went on, but without a great deal of talent, and absolutely no depth to use as a change up, only so many adjustments could be made.

[wadesworld]

Seriously guys, Wojo made everyone not named Purnell and Willard look like geniuses.

Anybody who actually watched this season knows that poor in game coaching (particularly late game) cost this team at least six wins.  There is a huge difference between being an assistant coach for one of the all time great coaches and actually being a good coach yourself.  Wojo has successfully ridden coach K's coattails, but nothing he's done so far suggests he's even an average in game basketball coach.

You are making Purnell and Willard look like geniuses.

[bradley center bat]

I'm sold on Cooley and Providence. Back to back ncaa's and a Big East Tournament Title.

[PGsHeroes32]

Mattyv has brought stupid to a whole new level.

I think a congratulations is in order.

[mattyv1908]

Mattyv has brought stupid to a whole new level.

I think a congratulations is in order.

Why?  Because I think Wojo will be a dud?

This forum has a topic regarding Jay Wright and JTIII and speculating on what their lack of recent success in the NCAAT means for their jobs and I'm bringing stupid to a whole new level?

Add Jay Wright and JTIII to the list of coaches I'd trade Wojo and Ellenson for.