Teve Transferring

[Golden Avalanche]

I'll comment on this one last time.  If next year resembles this year (let's just say 14-18 for grins), season tickets the following year might very well drop below 10,000.  Yes, Wojo would be on the hot seat during the '16-17 season.  I'm not in any way predicting this but it is the reality of big time college athletics.  Personally I think we'll be a solid threat for post season play next year although on the face of it Steve's departure yesterday was a setback and I think we're most likely heading in the right direction.

There's quite a bit of speculation here and a few contradictory thoughts. May be best for you to unpack it into coherent themes as you seem to be confusing others whilst confusing yourself trying to not confuse others who are already confused by your confusing words.

[Loose Cannon]

I'll comment on this one last time. 

   I think that's a Good idea.

[brandx]

Yes and no.

While I agree you can find similar production out of a transfer or a JUCO player, part of what makes a good program is the culture defined by the coaches and really developed and enforced by the players.

The upperclassman, even role-players, are a key part of a winning program. Not every school can be like UK and just add a bunch of new players and expect it to work.

I don't blame Wojo for the transfers (it happens when a new coach comes in), but I also won't subscribe to the idea that role players can simply be plugged in and out (ie "replacement level"). I can't think of many schools that have had long term success with that approach.

Normally, I agree with all you said here. It's why I thought DW and JA were valuable this year as they were the clear leaders and hardest workers.

Steve always seemed a lot more passive to me and I think Duane and Luke would have been the leaders next year anyway and maybe JJJ to a lesser extent.

And I also agree that you cannot have a winner with a plug n play system (unless you are Kentucky). Guys need to develop with the program and grow into the leadership roles.

[bilsu]

I think you and I are speaking the same language.  Let me add that I don't think Wojo would be fired 365 days from now if we went 15-17 next year.  But he'd certainly be squarely on the 'hot seat' for the following.

He is gone in 720 days.

[SuddenSam]

Teve's transfer is one of the things that needs to be improved upon?  So if we are in a better place next year or following due to the opening of his spot that is a bad thing?

[slingkong]

Maybe the best post ever on Scoop. Well done. I nominate this for a late entry to the meme bracket if it's not too late, because I bet this will take off.

[slingkong]

Hitting Wojo with an ultimatum less than one year into his getting the HC job just seemed like a Ners type move to me.  Especially demanding new recruits on March 18th after Wojo just pulled two more players in following the Noskowiak debacle, one of whom (Carter) he pulled away from solid programs who had been pursuing him for far longer.  The truth is Wojo will probably meet your Dad's insane demands.  I just think that your Dad could have asked nice.

Considering that none of the people on this board carry any weight, it's not an ultimatum of any sort. It's just a desire to tamp down the disarray that the last year has shown.

[ATWizJr]

He is gone in 720 days.

  Yeah?  To…..?

[slingkong]

If they are short a 6-10 guy next year because Steve Taylor, who was not likely to contribute much, decided to transfer, for whatever reasons, I am going to have a hard time arguing that the coach should have been able to do something about that when in his first real class he has brought in a 5-star, and four 4-star players.

Isn't he more like 6'6" (and less athletic than Juan, who was not a world beater)?

The hand wringing over Steve Taylor is a bit strange. There's really two alternatives...either he convinced him to stay and likley ride the bench, or here fruits somebody better. One could argue he has already done that, but if you think he still needs to do more, that's fine, but I would suggest expecting that in he first 12-18 months is probably not realistic or fair. Does he really need to go out and get another highly rated recruit  (and a 6-10 one at that) to come in and immediately contribute next year in order to satisfy you/take this off of his shoulders? Granted, I hope he does it, but your expectations may be a little out of whack for just how much he should be able to accomplish in a year.

Yep. It's been stipulated that STJ was going to leave had Dipcrap Cowboy stayed. He gave it a shot with Wojo and either didn't like what he saw or didn't like his chances considering the incoming players. It really is just that easy.

[slingkong]

Then why is he leaving? Nobody can seem to answer that question, because of course nobody knows, yet some are more than happy to assume that Wojo either ran him off or didn't do enough to keep him, even though base that opinion largely on the (in my mind and many others) faulty premis that he was going to be a significant contributor next year.

Agree. It's funny that a number of the people basically saying that Wojo ran off STJ ridiculed others that said Wojo ran off Burton, at minimum.

[slingkong]

No one is saying Wojo should be gone if the team doesn't produce next season. Only that if we go 2 years and have consecutive losing seasons to show for it, that seat may start getting warm.

If that's really what jsglow is saying then maybe he's not quite the fan he says he is. I believe the phrase was "respect the process," right? To go from the zero that the redneck left to a team that can seriously contend may very well take longer than a year. It's a shame that people can't accept that.

[mattyv1908]

If that's really what jsglow is saying then maybe he's not quite the fan he says he is. I believe the phrase was "respect the process," right? To go from the zero that the redneck left to a team that can seriously contend may very well take longer than a year. It's a shame that people can't accept that.

It's more complicated than you're making it out to be.  Had Buzz stayed so would have his incoming class (Hill, Shayok, Pierce) as well as Mayo, Dawson and Burton with likely departures from Taylor and Johnson.

If roster turnover is common when coaches leave, then Buzz didn't do anything uncommon.  Had he stayed we'd likely have had a team comprised of Derrick, Juan, Mayo, Duane, Luke, Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Hill, Shayok and Pierce.  That team would've been significantly better than this year's team.

I'm not defending Buzz, simply stating that nobody should be surprised by the amount of instability with the roster because it is completely normal when a coach leaves a program.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Still shaking my head, thinking about Steve's decision to quit Marquette.  It doesn't make sense to quit a top school a year shy of graduation. 

[Wojo Era]

It's more complicated than you're making it out to be.  Had Buzz stayed so would have his incoming class (Hill, Shayok, Pierce) as well as Mayo, Dawson and Burton with likely departures from Taylor and Johnson.

If roster turnover is common when coaches leave, then Buzz didn't do anything uncommon.  Had he stayed we'd likely have had a team comprised of Derrick, Juan, Mayo, Duane, Luke, Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Hill, Shayok and Pierce.  That team would've been significantly better than this year's team.


I think Dawson was out the door if Buzz didn't run out of town

I'm not defending Buzz, simply stating that nobody should be surprised by the amount of instability with the roster because it is completely normal when a coach leaves a program.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Has anyone heard any rumblings on where Steve might land?  Could this be a repeat of Juan Anderson if Steve realizes schools aren't falling all over themselves to take him at one year for the price of two?

[MerrittsMustache]

It's more complicated than you're making it out to be.  Had Buzz stayed so would have his incoming class (Hill, Shayok, Pierce) as well as Mayo, Dawson and Burton with likely departures from Taylor and Johnson.

If roster turnover is common when coaches leave, then Buzz didn't do anything uncommon.  Had he stayed we'd likely have had a team comprised of Derrick, Juan, Mayo, Duane, Luke, Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Hill, Shayok and Pierce.  That team would've been significantly better than this year's team.

I'm not defending Buzz, simply stating that nobody should be surprised by the amount of instability with the roster because it is completely normal when a coach leaves a program.

IIRC, it would have been more than just Steve and JJJ who left had Buzz stayed.

[GGGG]

Has anyone heard any rumblings on where Steve might land?  Could this be a repeat of Juan Anderson if Steve realizes schools aren't falling all over themselves to take him at one year for the price of two?

Part of his problem is going to be that you have to tie up a scholarship for two years for only one year of eligibility.

My guess however is that he ends up at UIC if the new coach there wants him.