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Author Topic: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)  (Read 25660 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2015, 05:03:56 PM »
There are a lot of ways to say that Duke may be approaching this with utmost caution after the lacrosse incident.   This is one of the dumbest.    And it is posts like this that lead to accusations of racism being leveled at you.  


I'm pointing out a simple fact of what happened the last time.  The Group of 88 tried, convicted, sentenced a team, coach, etc. of a crime they did not commit with nothing but an accusation to go on.  Why? Perfectly fair question to ask.  Not racist in one bit.  Why was there such quick rush to judgment the last time around?  Why will things be different this time around....or will they be the same?   Why do you think the rush to judgment last time?  Or is that honest and fair question not allowed to be asked or answered because someone with a PC mentality might be offended? 

My answer....the group of 88 wanted someone to take down and those guys fit a perfect target.  It happens in reverse as well.  Doesn't make it right either way.  People are wrongly accused of crimes because of race, gender, ethnicity, financial status, etc.  It can happen to anyone.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2015, 05:05:35 PM »
Like you, I hope we Caucasians -- especially those of us who also are male -- can overcome all the biases against us in this nation of ours.

Racism can be practiced against anyone by any person, regardless of their race.  There is a number of people out there that actually believe that is not possible, which is truly amazing.   

willie warrior

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2015, 05:28:38 PM »
There are a lot of ways to say that Duke may be approaching this with utmost caution after the lacrosse incident.   This is one of the dumbest.    And it is posts like this that lead to accusations of racism being leveled at you.  
hey Al, is that you pulling the race card again for the 100th time.? Why don't you do something responsible instead, pay your 4 million in taxes owed--now that would be patriotic
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

🏀

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2015, 05:30:10 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6bcs8ln_9Q&feature=youtu.be&t=1m21s

EDIT: Crap, forgot how to embed videos. Anyways, here is the link.



<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/r6bcs8ln_9Q&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;t=1m21s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/r6bcs8ln_9Q&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;t=1m21s</a>

Norm

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2015, 06:08:52 PM »
Um, what is the Group of 88?

MU82

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2015, 06:57:05 PM »
Racism can be practiced against anyone by any person, regardless of their race.  There is a number of people out there that actually believe that is not possible, which is truly amazing.   

Don't worry, Chicos. I have a dream, and we shall overcome!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

real chili 83

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2015, 07:17:29 PM »
Duke Lacrosse
UVA Fraternity
Lena Dunham
Etc.

I'm not saying the accusers are lying in this instance, but Duke (more than anyone), should know not to immediately side with an accuser.   They got burned once by this, I think they were correct in trying to determine the facts before dismissing the player.  

The real issue is in letting the University determine guilt/innocence in these cases with internal investigations  and on-campus Mock Trials with Judge Reinhold.   Essentially a kangaroo court.   These matters should be turned over to the police and investigated and prosecuted like any other criminal assault.    

Unlike Notre Dame, who took sides immediately, to the detriment of the accusers.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2015, 07:21:30 PM »
Um, what is the Group of 88?

I'm not a big fan of wiki, but this is one way to describe them.  Plenty of other descriptions if you google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_88

All of them, doing just fine.  Like it didn't even happen.  

http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/the-group-of-88-is-doing-just-fine/24314



« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 08:24:30 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2015, 07:34:11 PM »
Don't worry, Chicos. I have a dream, and we shall overcome!

I have one as well, that racism is omitted everywhere by everyone.  Including by some Duke professors.

Norm

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2015, 07:53:25 PM »
Unlike Notre Dame, who took sides immediately, to the detriment of the accusers.
What exactly are you referring to here?

real chili 83

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2015, 08:25:08 PM »
ND has a lousy track record.  Protects its football players.  At all costs.

Norm

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2015, 08:32:14 PM »
ND has a lousy track record.  Protects its football players.  At all costs.
Any specifics or just broad generalizations?

real chili 83

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2015, 08:34:21 PM »
There were two cases.  Written up in the Chicago Tribune.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2015, 10:26:01 PM »
Racism can be practiced against anyone by any person, regardless of their race.  There is a number of people out there that actually believe that is not possible, which is truly amazing.   

Actually this is false. In order to be racist, the perpetrator must have some sort of societal power or privilege over the victim. Ergo, it is impossible for people of color to be racist towards white people. Women cannot be sexist towards men. Etc.

However, it is possible for anyone to be prejudiced against any person regardless of race.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2015, 10:37:11 PM »
Lots of misinformation in this thread and probably in the articles as well.

Biggest question for me is the timeline. If I read correctly, allegations were first brought in October or 2013. I'm assuming that the allegations were heard by some sort of university official. This should have started a "clock" that expired in 60 days. Per Title IX, universities have 60 days from the date of first report to complete an investigation and put the student through the conduct process. This happen no matter if criminal charges were brought or not. So if the university followed this clock, the investigation should have been concluded by January 2014. If he was found responsible, than there is no way he would have been allowed to stay on the team (at least any credible conduct system would require this). If he was found not responsible, than there would have been no reason for him to be kicked off the team.

What I am assuming happened is, similar to the Jamies Winston case, Duke found some reason to extend the 60 day clock. There are some allowances for this but there's no way it should have stretched for over a year. I actually wonder if new information or charges came up later and that's what prompted Coach K to give him the boot.

The timeline is confusing, but I see almost no way that it comes back on Coach K or Wojo. They have no obligation not to play a player who is accused of committing a crime and they were not the original reporting employees so they have no responsibility to report. This may come back on the administration if they dragged their heels on the investigation. The Office of Civil Rights from the DOE is already gunning to destroy Florida State for their mishandling of the case. I'm sure they'll have room for Duke.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2015, 10:46:30 PM »
Duke Lacrosse
UVA Fraternity
Lena Dunham
Etc.

I'm not saying the accusers are lying in this instance, but Duke (more than anyone), should know not to immediately side with an accuser.   They got burned once by this, I think they were correct in trying to determine the facts before dismissing the player.  

The real issue is in letting the University determine guilt/innocence in these cases with internal investigations  and on-campus Mock Trials with Judge Reinhold.   Essentially a kangaroo court.   These matters should be turned over to the police and investigated and prosecuted like any other criminal assault.    

Why do people focus on the small minority of false reports instead of the millions of true reports?

Sexual assault has a false report rate of just under 8%. That is actually less than the false report rate for theft and murder. But no one accuses those people of lying.

I do agree that everyone should get due process but I don't think we should even jump to the thought of victims lying unless we are given reason to think it is possible.

All sexual assaults that are reported on campus are turned over to the police. It's a federal law. But the university also launches its own investigation. So it is possible for an accused student to be innocent in court but responsible on campus, they have different standards of evidence. It is also possible for survivors to not press charges in criminal court but still have an assault investigated on campus. This is handled the exact same way as cases of theft, assault, drugs, etc. I also don't know how familiar you are with campus judicial systems, but I don't think the comparison to mock trails are even close to fair. I can't speak for all universities but most are well run organizations led by professionals with more experience than I will ever have.
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2015, 11:29:02 PM »
Actually this is false. In order to be racist, the perpetrator must have some sort of societal power or privilege over the victim. Ergo, it is impossible for people of color to be racist towards white people. Women cannot be sexist towards men. Etc.


LOL.  What an absolute load of bovine excrement, psychobabble guilt propoganda.

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2015, 11:49:26 PM »
While Heisenburg is likely over the top with this stuff, it is very relevant given Wojo's being their during this time and the current national environment for this stuff.

But at least he was careful to say he was not stirring the pot  ::)

brandx

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2015, 11:50:23 PM »
1.  Nothing filed either with Duke or the Durham authorities.
2.  Rumors are nothing but rumors.
3.  K reached his own personal tipping point dismissed the player.
4.  Duke lacrosse.

This doesn't bring K down.   It doesn't trickle down to Wojo.

This.

brandx

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2015, 11:59:16 PM »
Has Karla F.C. Holloway, a professor of English and African-American Studies, weighed in yet?  How about Wahneema Lubiano?


Group of 88 had no problem back in the day to try, convict, hang a certain team at Duke that happened to be mostly caucasian....just sayin

Ah.... so this is a racial issue.

Unbelievable!

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2015, 12:54:02 AM »
LOL.  What an absolute load of bovine excrement, psychobabble guilt propoganda.

No guilt propoganda. You simply have your definitions wrong. You are saying racist when you mean prejudiced.


I know, all those pesky liberal Jesuits at Marquette, corrupting us young folk with all this social justice nonsense
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 01:09:58 AM by TAMU Eagle »
TAMU

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Shark

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2015, 01:03:31 AM »
LOL.  What an absolute load of bovine excrement, psychobabble guilt propoganda.

Didn't know TAMU was a tumblr user.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2015, 01:38:54 AM »
No guilt propoganda. You simply have your definitions wrong. You are saying racist when you mean prejudiced.


I know, all those pesky liberal Jesuits at Marquette, corrupting us young folk with all this social justice nonsense

Nope...that is your interpretation, your definition.....no doubt shared by others with enormous guilt complexes, but that doesn't make it right or accurate.

Women can't be sexist?  LOL   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peggy-drexler/who-says-women-arent-sexi_b_3331315.html




Tugg Speedman

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2015, 06:14:24 AM »
Biggest question for me is the timeline. If I read correctly, allegations were first brought in October or 2013. I'm assuming that the allegations were heard by some sort of university official. This should have started a "clock" that expired in 60 days. Per Title IX, universities have 60 days from the date of first report to complete an investigation and put the student through the conduct process. This happen no matter if criminal charges were brought or not. So if the university followed this clock, the investigation should have been concluded by January 2014. If he was found responsible, than there is no way he would have been allowed to stay on the team (at least any credible conduct system would require this). If he was found not responsible, than there would have been no reason for him to be kicked off the team.

Again it all comes down to standards.  Coach K wins and is famous/important so what standard will he be held too?  You think Duke/Coach K could survive the standard set below?  And to be clear, the standard is that you followed every rule exactly to the letter of every rule without any exception or you will be fired.

-------

UW-Whitewater fires coach who reported sexual assault of student
Sept 30, 2014
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/purple-wisconsin/277665881.html

University of Wisconsin-Whitewater wrestling coach Tim Fader was one of the most successful athletic coaches the institution ever had. So why was he fired? It appears because he reported an alleged sexual assault to the police.

Tim Fader had been the coach of the UW-Whitewater Warhawks wrestling team for the last decade. Last year, the team won their third straight conference title and placed 2nd at the NCAA Division III tournament, the highest in school history. Fader had coached 18 scholar All-Americans and 21 wrestling All-Americans, and was a three time Division III Coach of the Year recipient.

On April 18, 2014, a recruit for the wrestling team was visiting the UW-Whitewater campus. Fader received a phone call from the mother of a student at the school, saying her daughter had been sexually assaulted by the recruit.

Fader reported the matter to the Whitewater Police Department.

In an interview, Fader said, "I followed my gut. My gut said to call the police. That's what you're taught to do. That's what I teach my kids to do if they see a problem."

A few weeks later the school told Fader that because he did not report the assault to the school, he would be suspended from his job as a teacher and coach. In August, the school announced they would not be renewing Fader’s contract after an internal investigation revealed that the wrestling team had violated NCAA recruiting policies.

Shortly after Fader was suspended, the Washington Post reported that UW-Whitewater is one of 55 colleges across the country under investigation by the United States Department of Education regarding how the school handles sexual assault cases.

The University of Wisconsin – Whitewater has refused to comment on the case, or release any documents relating to either the investigation of the team by the school or the Department of Education investigation.

These are the facts of the case, as reported in numerous media outlets. Neither the University, the UW System, or the NCAA has publicly disputed any of these facts, nor have they presented any evidence to negate these facts.

There are a number of things to keep in mind with this case.

First, school administration officials explicitly stated that the reason Fader was being suspended was because he reported the case to the police instead of reporting it to the university first.

Second, the school only initiated the investigation into the team’s recruiting practices after they had been notified of the assault and suspended Fader. In addition, the infractions reported to the NCAA were relatively minor violations of NCAA recruiting rules.

Lastly, and most importantly, UW Whitewater’s athletics programs are some of the best in the country. In the last year, the school has boasted 5 different national championship-winning teams. The athletics program is a cornerstone of the University’s operations, and a tainted image would have huge consequences for the school’s reputation and finances.

We do not know how UW Whitewater would have acted if Coach Fader had brought the matter to their attention immediately. However, is there something they would’ve done that wasn’t being done by the police? Or was their motivation to prevent the report of a sexual assault to law enforcement? The facts of this case certainly show a lack of accountability and transparency within the UW Whitewater Athletics Department and the University administration.

Unfortunately, this is only the latest episode for an institution with an established record of ignorance and incompetence when it comes to handling cases of sexual assault.

From 2004-2008 UW-Whitewater had among the highest number of sexual assaults of colleges in Wisconsin.

Then, in 2011, UW Whitewater had one reported case.

The statistics available on sexual assault on college campuses suggest that the 2011 report is far from correct. One in five female undergraduate students have experienced sexual assault during their college careers. However, as a recent White House report notes, only 12% of victims report the assault to law enforcement.

Underreporting of sexual assaults is one of the underlying causes of this crisis. The case of Coach Fader is an example of why victims and witnesses are hesitant to report these crimes to police.

Coach Fader took what he thought was the correct action. He acted in a way we hope anyone who is made aware of a sexual assault would act. Because of his actions, it appears he now faces retribution from the University he dedicated his professional life to.

If the administration of this institution should put as much effort into punishing sexual predators as they apparently put into punishing faculty who report assaults, their students would be much better off.

Update: The original version of this story stated that the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater was under investigation by the Department of Justice. It has been updated to correct this error.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 06:18:33 AM by Heisenberg »

tower912

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Re: Why Doesn't This End Coach K's career? (and Does it blow back on Wojo?)
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2015, 06:19:27 AM »
Another example of administrators and bureaucrats making poor decisions.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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