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Author Topic: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai  (Read 19099 times)

mattyv1908

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Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« on: February 21, 2015, 06:29:36 PM »
http://www.nbadraft.net/10-things-we-learned-u17-world-championships-dubai

Still think he's a great get, but by the looks of it Stone is the better prospect both next season and in the NBA.
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

rocky_warrior

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 06:31:38 PM »
A bird in the hand....

mattyv1908

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 06:35:51 PM »
A bird in the hand....

I don't disagree and why I said he was a great get, but I'll wait until he plays a few games in the grueling, physical Big East to see if he can live up to the hype.
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

MilWarrior

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 06:50:58 PM »
What is the point of being so negative towards the future just because this year has been so crappy? If you are a real MU fan - what is your motivation in starting this thread? Seriously.

WarriorHal

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2015, 06:56:13 PM »
"Ellenson lacks elite level athleticism to be rated so high and struggles to make plays when he doesn't have momentum."


Is that code for, he's a big white guy? That's what it sorta sounds like.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 07:00:02 PM »
http://www.nbadraft.net/10-things-we-learned-u17-world-championships-dubai

Still think he's a great get, but by the looks of it Stone is the better prospect both next season and in the NBA.

Sigh,

Do I need to go back and find the stories from last summer that called Stone an over-rated slob?  The same stories that said Calipari cooled on him.

Those stories were wrong and these are too. 

Oh, and last summer the same stories dissing Stone said Ivan Rabb is the real deal.

Herman Cain

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 07:03:49 PM »
http://www.nbadraft.net/10-things-we-learned-u17-world-championships-dubai

Still think he's a great get, but by the looks of it Stone is the better prospect both next season and in the NBA.
I watched all  the U-17 games. I thought Ellenson did fine given that this is an all star team event. The coach of the team did his best to parcel out the time. The competition was not that solid. The inter squad games were probably better than the event.

The AAU circuit matters much more in my opinion.  
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wadesworld

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 07:16:23 PM »
This 6 month old article also says Jahlil Okafor has less long term potential than DeAndre Ayton, Harry Giles, and Ben Simmons, so I'm just fine if this guy thinks King Henry isn't any good.
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mattyv1908

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 07:16:37 PM »
What is the point of being so negative towards the future just because this year has been so crappy? If you are a real MU fan - what is your motivation in starting this thread? Seriously.

Should only glowing reviews be discussed here?

Did you conveniently not read the first six words of my post which began 'Still think he's a great get'?
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 07:18:39 PM »
He might be overrated, or might not.  Time will tell.

If he ends up not being Miss California and ends up being Miss Arkansas, I'm still going to have a good time.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2015, 07:21:02 PM »
What is the point of being so negative towards the future just because this year has been so crappy? If you are a real MU fan - what is your motivation in starting this thread? Seriously.

Its an article about one of our future players. Its a legitimate topic of discussion. I am worried that fans have too high of expectations for HE Man. I think he's gonna be great, but not the game changer from day 1 everyone seems to assume he will be.
TAMU

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tower912

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 07:26:24 PM »
This one guy writing this one article wasn't impressed with HEllenson.    Meh.   I'd rather have him than be ticked we didn't have him.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2015, 07:28:07 PM »
Its an article about one of our future players. Its a legitimate topic of discussion. I am worried that fans have too high of expectations for HE Man. I think he's gonna be great, but not the game changer from day 1 everyone seems to assume he will be.

This is also true, but it is what it is.  same warning I gave about Luke, but some wanted to make him Wilt Chamberlain.  Not much one can do about those fans.

mattyv1908

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2015, 07:31:08 PM »
Its an article about one of our future players. Its a legitimate topic of discussion. I am worried that fans have too high of expectations for HE Man. I think he's gonna be great, but not the game changer from day 1 everyone seems to assume he will be.

Thanks TAMU.

I wasn't trying to be negative, just found the article interesting given the assumptions by many who frequent scoop.
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

79Warrior

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2015, 07:32:53 PM »
He might be overrated, or might not.  Time will tell.

If he ends up not being Miss California and ends up being Miss Arkansas, I'm still going to have a good time.


Expectations are certainly way high for the future freshman. I think he will be fine, but there will be growing pains.

MilWarrior

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2015, 07:33:30 PM »
Should only glowing reviews be discussed here?

Did you conveniently not read the first six words of my post which began 'Still think he's a great get'?

I'm just unnatural carnal knowledgeing sick of people piling onto a bad season. I've been a part of this board almost since its inception. Never has there been a time where people are so willing to tear down any shread of hope that we have for the future. I apologize for singling you out as you are far from the worst offender. But the negativity here needs to stop. Henry is our best recruit in a long time - maybe the best in the past 10+ years. Just because Diamond Stone isn't coming here shouldn't be a reason to sully that.

OhioGoldenEagle

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2015, 07:38:42 PM »
Interesting question for the locals would be what would we rather have:

1.  Henry lives up to the hype.  Big East freshman of the year and returns MU to the dance on his way to entry into the '16 NBA draft.

2.  Like most freshman, the leap to D1 is a bit much for Henry.  He is not a major contributor right out the gate and needs years of solid coaching and weight training to be really productive in the Big East.  Isn't dynamic but a solid contributor for 4 years and goes undrafted after graduation.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2015, 07:40:29 PM »
I'm just unnatural carnal knowledgeing sick of people piling onto a bad season. I've been a part of this board almost since its inception. Never has there been a time where people are so willing to tear down any shread of hope that we have for the future. I apologize for singling you out as you are far from the worst offender. But the negativity here needs to stop. Henry is our best recruit in a long time - maybe the best in the past 10+ years. Just because Diamond Stone isn't coming here shouldn't be a reason to sully that.

Generally I agree.  crap on Wojo.  crap on Players.  crap on Recruits.  Bad seasons cause bad message boards.  I wish they didn't...but if we were winning this season, the post would have been glossed over with what seed we should expect in the tourney.

mattyv1908

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2015, 07:50:33 PM »
I'm just unnatural carnal knowledgeing sick of people piling onto a bad season. I've been a part of this board almost since its inception. Never has there been a time where people are so willing to tear down any shread of hope that we have for the future. I apologize for singling you out as you are far from the worst offender. But the negativity here needs to stop. Henry is our best recruit in a long time - maybe the best in the past 10+ years. Just because Diamond Stone isn't coming here shouldn't be a reason to sully that.

Henry Ellenson has nothing to do with this year's team.

I live in the Seattle metro area, have never seen the kid play in person and don't view youtube highlight reel video's as terribly credible so I'm left with other opinions of our recruits.  There's nothing negative about this post.

Grow some thicker skin or don't read the article.

I personally don't prefer overhyping one highly rated recruit before we see what they can do playing against top shelf, well coached, Big East style opponents as it tends to set folks up for disappointment.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 07:58:37 PM by mattyv1908 »
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

Groin_pull

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2015, 08:21:12 PM »
Now we're going to piss on the best damn recruit MU has seen in years? Unreal. Let's all lust for Stone now.  ::)


forgetful

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2015, 08:43:15 PM »
Interesting question for the locals would be what would we rather have:

1.  Henry lives up to the hype.  Big East freshman of the year and returns MU to the dance on his way to entry into the '16 NBA draft.

2.  Like most freshman, the leap to D1 is a bit much for Henry.  He is not a major contributor right out the gate and needs years of solid coaching and weight training to be really productive in the Big East.  Isn't dynamic but a solid contributor for 4 years and goes undrafted after graduation.

Why can't we have a third option.  Like most freshman, the leap to D1 is a bit much for Henry.  He is a contributor but not star his first year.  In years 2 and 3 he is a breakout star leading MU back into the top 10 nationally.  He goes drafted in the lottery after his junior year, where he was a NPOY candidate.

GoldenZebra

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2015, 09:23:35 PM »
One guy writes an article about a recruit being overrated and people lose their minds. What are rankings based on other than opinions?

mattyv1908

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2015, 10:06:23 PM »
One guy writes an article about a recruit being overrated and people lose their minds. What are rankings based on other than opinions?

I'm just looking forward to when he's actually in uniform thus making his ranking 'worthless' so we can actually evaluate his strengths and weaknesses.
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

We R Final Four

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2015, 10:20:24 PM »
Kinda like JJJ, Ai na?

I think he was mentioned as a top 35 pick in at least one thread today.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2015, 10:26:56 PM »
There's too much fixation on Ellenson. I'm sure he'll be a good, if not great player.

There's too little focus on Luke. He's a monster in the making. He has some sloppy habits, but he's a star. He's going to make Henry's transition a whole lot easier. He's basically a freshman on on severely undermanned team. By the time he's a senior, he projects as a first rounder. He's got size, a ton of ability and looks to be a worker.

Mark my words.


GoldenZebra

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2015, 10:44:00 PM »
There's too much fixation on Ellenson. I'm sure he'll be a good, if not great player.

There's too little focus on Luke. He's a monster in the making. He has some sloppy habits, but he's a star. He's going to make Henry's transition a whole lot easier. He's basically a freshman on on severely undermanned team. By the time he's a senior, he projects as a first rounder. He's got size, a ton of ability and looks to be a worker.

Mark my words.



Luke was pretty great today, foul trouble is still an issue but one that will be solved once he gets used to BE refs (which are so ticky-tack these days). He played well against a nova front court that is pretty good.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2015, 10:48:01 PM »
Luke was pretty great today, foul trouble is still an issue but one that will be solved once he gets used to BE refs (which are so ticky-tack these days). He played well against a nova front court that is pretty good.
All true. And he's essentially a freshman playing with zero front court help. He's a talent. Even if Henry was not coming, the future is bright.

WarriorFan

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2015, 11:13:18 PM »
I watched all  the U-17 games. I thought Ellenson did fine given that this is an all star team event. The coach of the team did his best to parcel out the time. The competition was not that solid. The inter squad games were probably better than the event.

The AAU circuit matters much more in my opinion.  
I watched most of the U-17 games.  What I saw was that plays were often run for Stone, but rarely for Henry.  Both executed well when their number was called.  Stone got more chances and really showed some great stuff around the rim with dunks and drives.  Stuff that looks good.

Most of it was pick-up ball against 5th graders, however.  Even the final was against a scrappy and well organized but not particularly talented Australia team.  Australia was in it because they have a national team system that starts from age 13 or 14 when most of the kids move to the Institute of Sport for training and school, so they are a team and play like one where the US group was just a collection of random individuals.  Even then, it wasn't the same level of competition. 

Bottom line - we need to be very pleased with the guys Wojo has recruited.  All of them.
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2015, 11:17:07 PM »
There's too much fixation on Ellenson. I'm sure he'll be a good, if not great player.

There's too little focus on Luke. He's a monster in the making. He has some sloppy habits, but he's a star. He's going to make Henry's transition a whole lot easier. He's basically a freshman on on severely undermanned team. By the time he's a senior, he projects as a first rounder. He's got size, a ton of ability and looks to be a worker.

Mark my words.



I hope you are right, but not sure I see star.  Senior year should be very nice player, especially if we can free up the lane a bit for him with a quality tandem player.

wadesworld

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2015, 01:11:52 AM »
From the 2012-2014 recruiting classes the top 10 (and specifically #6) recruits in each year were just about all immediate impact players.  I expect Hank to be the same.  Crucify me.
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wadesworld

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2015, 01:15:06 AM »
This is also true, but it is what it is.  same warning I gave about Luke, but some wanted to make him Wilt Chamberlain.  Not much one can do about those fans.

10 and 5 from a sophomore big playing in only his 2nd college semester, and really first considering where he was for his first and the opportunity he was given, is pretty darn good for a boarderline top 100 player, especially considering he only got the benefit of playing about 2 cupcake teams to get into form before the Big East season.  Just because the coach at Indiana had no clue how to use a legitimate big talent doesn't mean he's underperformed in any way.  Not to mention, Luke and Hank weren't even close to similarly hyped coming out of high school.
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WarriorPride68

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2015, 01:19:12 AM »
I watched most of the U-17 games.  What I saw was that plays were often run for Stone, but rarely for Henry.  Both executed well when their number was called.  Stone got more chances and really showed some great stuff around the rim with dunks and drives.  Stuff that looks good.

Most of it was pick-up ball against 5th graders, however.  Even the final was against a scrappy and well organized but not particularly talented Australia team.  Australia was in it because they have a national team system that starts from age 13 or 14 when most of the kids move to the Institute of Sport for training and school, so they are a team and play like one where the US group was just a collection of random individuals.  Even then, it wasn't the same level of competition. 


No offense but Isaac Humphries is a beast. He actually moved state side and is a top 2016 recruit with an Arizona offer.

For what it's worth Ellenson went 0-2, 0 points in the 99-92 championship game vs Australia

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2015, 07:25:46 AM »
I hope you are right, but not sure I see star.  Senior year should be very nice player, especially if we can free up the lane a bit for him with a quality tandem player.
Crean cooled on him.

dgies9156

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2015, 07:38:02 AM »
Generally I agree.  crap on Wojo.  crap on Players.  crap on Recruits.  Bad seasons cause bad message boards.  I wish they didn't...but if we were winning this season, the post would have been glossed over with what seed we should expect in the tourney.

A couple of thoughts:

1) If Diamond is so much better than Henry, why does Henry have the scholarship and Diamond doesn't yet. There is a lot more to the Diamond story than anyone is admitting. I hope for Diamond's sake he does well somewhere (ummm, Marquette would be nice but I suspect that ship has sailed). In the meantime, Help is on the Way! Be thankful it's coming.

2) All Marquette fandom is divided in threes, as I have said before:
    * Anyone who attended Marquette before 1982, who thinks we are in a God-given right to a Top 10 ranking and should be competitive for a National Championship.
    * Anyone who attended Marquette between 1983 and 1990, who suffered through the late Raymonds, Majerus and Dukiet years (plus folks here during the Deane years), who think Marquette can do nothing right.
    * Anyone who attended Marquette during the O'Neill, Crean or Hillbilly years, who think Marquette is a way station for coaches on the rise.

All three are angry right now. Group One saw our Elite 8 team two years ago and are wondering, "what happened?" Group Two sees Marquette and thinks our record is indicative that we screwed up again. Group 3 thinks we just plain blew it. Everyone is angry because losing like this is not in our tradition -- save for a few Dukiet years.

Until our team is constituted for next year and actually lives up to its hype, there will be a lot of anger and a bit of hate expressed on these boards.

GGGG

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2015, 07:50:23 AM »
A couple of thoughts:

1) If Diamond is so much better than Henry, why does Henry have the scholarship and Diamond doesn't yet.


Oh come on.  I think you know the answer to this.

And HE might be overrated.  But remember that the U17 had some of the best players in the country.  So he may not be #5.  He may be #10.  Or #15.

But he is a fantastic recruit.  A savior?  Probably not.  But an player who is going to help improve this team in the years to come?  Definitely.


manny31

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2015, 08:36:43 AM »
I think Wojo tapes the pertinent part of the article to HE's locker when he gets to MU, maybe put a little chip on his shoulder. Also to the point about Luke, I think that PR nailed it with the fact that he is really a frosh with no help up front this year. I think he might turn out to be really good, maybe not NBA good but I hope Luke proves me wrong and PR Nightmare right.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2015, 09:01:14 AM »
10 and 5 from a sophomore big playing in only his 2nd college semester, and really first considering where he was for his first and the opportunity he was given, is pretty darn good for a boarderline top 100 player, especially considering he only got the benefit of playing about 2 cupcake teams to get into form before the Big East season.  Just because the coach at Indiana had no clue how to use a legitimate big talent doesn't mean he's underperformed in any way.  Not to mention, Luke and Hank weren't even close to similarly hyped coming out of high school.

Hopefully.  I think he has done well this year and the natural progression for his type of frame and ability.  My worry was when people here anointed him God after ASU and Alabama A&M.   He was #71 RSCI, maybe that's borderline. 

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Lennys Tap

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2015, 09:05:52 AM »
Crean cooled on him.

Actually Luke cooled on Crean and the culture he built at Indiana.

mattyv1908

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2015, 12:41:37 PM »
Hopefully.  I think he has done well this year and the natural progression for his type of frame and ability.  My worry was when people here anointed him God after ASU and Alabama A&M.   He was #71 RSCI, maybe that's borderline. 

Agree Chicos.  I actually thought yesterday was Luke's best game in conference.  If we're honest with ourselves, Luke is playing the minutes he is because we have nobody else.  If you put him on any other Big East team this season he probably is seeing spot minutes (10-15) at the 5 which is normal for a sophomore and the increased time it typically takes for bigs to mature and round out their games.
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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2015, 07:58:07 AM »
Agree Chicos.  I actually thought yesterday was Luke's best game in conference.  If we're honest with ourselves, Luke is playing the minutes he is because we have nobody else.  If you put him on any other Big East team this season he probably is seeing spot minutes (10-15) at the 5 which is normal for a sophomore and the increased time it typically takes for bigs to mature and round out their games.

I disagree.  Besides Marquette, Luke most likely would start for five other Big East teams, the exceptions being Villanova, Georgetown, Xavier and St. John's.  At Seton Hall he would move Delgado over to the 4.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 08:00:11 AM by LittleWade »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2015, 10:52:36 AM »
For what it's worth Ellenson went 0-2, 0 points in the 99-92 championship game vs Australia

Are you kidding me?  Is the U17 coach playing mind games with Henry, or throwing him under the bus?  Doesn't he know Henry can only perform if given 25 minutes of run?
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2015, 11:32:57 AM »
One guy writes an article about a recruit being overrated and people lose their minds. What are rankings based on other than opinions?

You need to believe everything on the internet

77ncaachamps

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2015, 12:08:12 PM »
If Henry's game is like Kevin Love and Diamond's is like Demarcus Cousins,

I'll take Henry.
SS Marquette

Earl Tatum

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2015, 02:27:41 PM »
Bluntly put-- Diamond Stone doesn't want to go to college. Probably can't pass ACT Test. Might take up Swaheeli , Basket Weaving, or how to swing a gold club at Wisconsin. Call it "Sour Grapes", or what you want. Will admit, might be a good kid, but his offense is way below par
to be a top grade player. I don't call Henry a 5-star either. Better basketball skills. If Stone was really skilled, Calipari would have had him in a heart beat. I say Stone will be a 3 year college player for whoever college that he can get in to.. Ellenson 3 or 4 years.
My opinion only.

BM1090

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2015, 03:32:48 PM »
Bluntly put-- Diamond Stone doesn't want to go to college. Probably can't pass ACT Test. Might take up Swaheeli , Basket Weaving, or how to swing a gold club at Wisconsin. Call it "Sour Grapes", or what you want. Will admit, might be a good kid, but his offense is way below par
to be a top grade player. I don't call Henry a 5-star either. Better basketball skills. If Stone was really skilled, Calipari would have had him in a heart beat. I say Stone will be a 3 year college player for whoever college that he can get in to.. Ellenson 3 or 4 years.
My opinion only.

Considering all the draft guys have both in the top ten of the 2016 draft......yeah, you're wrong. No offense.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2015, 05:25:01 PM »
Bluntly put-- Diamond Stone doesn't want to go to college. Probably can't pass ACT Test. Might take up Swaheeli , Basket Weaving, or how to swing a gold club at Wisconsin. Call it "Sour Grapes", or what you want. Will admit, might be a good kid, but his offense is way below par
to be a top grade player. I don't call Henry a 5-star either. Better basketball skills. If Stone was really skilled, Calipari would have had him in a heart beat. I say Stone will be a 3 year college player for whoever college that he can get in to.. Ellenson 3 or 4 years.
My opinion only.

Haven't you been posting for the past year about how Wojo needs to get Diamond Stone?
TAMU

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Sylvester78

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2015, 06:26:27 PM »
Bluntly put-- Diamond Stone doesn't want to go to college. Probably can't pass ACT Test. Might take up Swaheeli , Basket Weaving, or how to swing a gold club at Wisconsin. Call it "Sour Grapes", or what you want. Will admit, might be a good kid, but his offense is way below par
to be a top grade player. I don't call Henry a 5-star either. Better basketball skills. If Stone was really skilled, Calipari would have had him in a heart beat. I say Stone will be a 3 year college player for whoever college that he can get in to.. Ellenson 3 or 4 years.
My opinion only.

Nice racist rant.  And if your going to be THAT guy spell swahili remotely in the ballpark you ignoramus.

And Diamond's offensive game is just fine even though he chose a different school. Neither guy has any interest in staying in school for more than 1-2 years.

naginiF

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2015, 06:45:04 PM »
Nice racist rant.  And if your going to be THAT guy spell swahili remotely in the ballpark you ignoramus.

And Diamond's offensive game is just fine even though he chose a different school. Neither guy has any interest in staying in school for more than 1-2 years.
Beat me to the "if you're going to be racist, be an intelligent racist" post.  My criticism is that you did not call out grammar or punctuation.  "...for whoever college that he can get in to.."

Earl Tatum

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2015, 10:00:23 PM »
Yep, I wanted Stone, but not taking or passing his ACT or whatever, gives me doubts I didn't have before. His scoring average and
board play is pretty good when playing against D-4 competition. Scoring is real good when shooting 2-feet from the basket with dunks and layups. Will admit defense is very good. Comments were not meant to be racist. Am far from being that kind of person. Figure of speech. Sorry if I offended you guys. I wanted Stone in the worst way. "Sour Grapes". A player out in New York named Thomas Bryant at 6-10, 230, 4-star would be super. Guess MU doesn't have the "pull" anymore in that area. He has not committed.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2015, 01:12:19 AM »
Yep, I wanted Stone, but not taking or passing his ACT or whatever, gives me doubts I didn't have before. His scoring average and
board play is pretty good when playing against D-4 competition. Scoring is real good when shooting 2-feet from the basket with dunks and layups. Will admit defense is very good. Comments were not meant to be racist. Am far from being that kind of person. Figure of speech. Sorry if I offended you guys. I wanted Stone in the worst way. "Sour Grapes". A player out in New York named Thomas Bryant at 6-10, 230, 4-star would be super. Guess MU doesn't have the "pull" anymore in that area. He has not committed.

Thomas Bryant trimmed his list before Wojo even got her IIRC. It's not fair to expect Wojo to be able to grab any recruit under the sun
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keefe

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2015, 03:45:13 AM »


Miss Arkansas, I'm still going to have a good time.




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thekahoona

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2015, 08:00:50 AM »


Thank you, Keefe. I can always count on you!

Earl Tatum

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2015, 08:11:49 AM »
Just mentioned Bryant's name from reading Rivals List. I AM A WOJO BACKER with my Wojo Warrior T-Shirt and MU Warrior Shirt.

warriorfan 14

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2015, 08:32:44 AM »
i really don't trust or care what any of these so called recruiting experts say. i'll just wait till we see the recruits in a marquette uniform before i get excited or disappointed.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2015, 08:34:32 AM »
i really don't trust or care what any of these so called recruiting experts say. i'll just wait till we see the recruits in a marquette uniform before i get excited or disappointed.

5 year rule and all of that.

MU82

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2015, 08:35:52 AM »
5 year rule and all of that.
Well, how 'bout at least a 1 or 2 year rule?
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2015, 08:59:50 AM »
5 year rule and all of that.

There is a reason that the average first contract of a coach is...... 5 years

GGGG

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2015, 09:13:17 AM »
There is a reason that the average first contract of a coach is...... 5 years


Mostly due to market forces.  Not because it takes 5 years to fully judge them.

4everwarriors

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2015, 09:22:34 AM »
Contracts are for honest folks, ai na?
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DienerTime34

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2015, 09:55:28 AM »
http://www.nbadraft.net/10-things-we-learned-u17-world-championships-dubai

Still think he's a great get, but by the looks of it Stone is the better prospect both next season and in the NBA.

For the sake of argument, let's assume this report is true. Isn't that sort of great from a Marquette basketball standpoint, though? That Henry would be a guy always flirting with Big East POY but there are doubts about his athleticism that keeps him from jumping in the draft after one or two years. The guy could be our Tyler Hansbrough or Frank Kaminsky. Better than him being our Noah Vonleh.

wadesworld

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2015, 12:02:07 PM »
For the sake of argument, let's assume this report is true. Isn't that sort of great from a Marquette basketball standpoint, though? That Henry would be a guy always flirting with Big East POY but there are doubts about his athleticism that keeps him from jumping in the draft after one or two years. The guy could be our Tyler Hansbrough or Frank Kaminsky. Better than him being our Noah Vonleh.

Considering we actually have a coach who would know how to use Noah Vonleh, I'd be plenty happy with Hank being that, ai'na?
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The Equalizer

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Re: Article about Ellenson being overrated covering U17 in Dubai
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2015, 01:00:54 PM »
Mostly due to market forces.  Not because it takes 5 years to fully judge them.

Semantics. 

The primary market forces are that both the coach and school have incentives for not making a judgement for five years. 

The coach wants five years minimum before he's judged when taking over a disaster and needs to rebuild:
Year 1: Can't expect much, I'm playing with the former coach's recruits.  Can't judge me.
Year 2: My first recruiting class are all frosh--and they don't play much. Most of my rotation is still the old coach's recruits
Year 3: All my recruits still underclassmen--and half are only frosh. 
year 4: I should be delivering results by now, but you gotta give me through next year, when the whole team is mine.
Year 5: First year all players are my responsibility.

Consider the case of Kevin O'Neill as a perfect example as to why coaches want five year contracts:
Year 1: 16-13--only 2 more wins, 1 fewer loss than Dukiet's final season.
Year 2: 11-18--nearly as bad as Dukiet's worst season (10-18).  Would he really be comfortable being judged at this point?
Year 3: 16-13 - no post season.  Three years in, and his overall winning percentage is only marginally better than the despised Dukiet at .482 vs. .458 Despite SIGNIFICANTLY better recruiting, results are about what Dukiet gave us. Lucky for him nobody judged him after just three years.


And schools have incentives from the opposite direction.  Five year contracts give them at least some protection from situations where the new coach takes over a strong program and does well in the first few years: Consider Mike Deane
Year 1: 21-12
Year 2: 28-8
Year 3: 22-9
Year 4: 20-11 Wow, that cumulative .695 winning percentage suggests he's the real deal after four years.
Year 5: 14-15  Hmm.  Finally playing with his own players and recruiting doesn't look so hot either. Different story

So five year timeframe IS the market force that drives those initial contracts.