Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[NersEllenson]

JJJ is a hot topic of debate here.  If I said there is a player on the roster who would give us this production if they were given 25+ minutes per game per night - would anybody in their right mind say he doesn't deserve 25+?

6 games of 25+ minutes against 4 of our Top 6 wins for the year:  TN Martin, OSU (loss), NJIT, ASU, North Dakota, Providence.

Averages:

29.3 minutes per game.  13.6ppg.  4.3 rebounds per game.  2.5 assists per game. 3.0 steals per game  2.6 turnovers per game.

Like most talented players, it helps when you get long stretches of run/playing time.  The above alone are all that needs to be said for what can be done to improve this team.  Does it mean every game JJJ plays 25+ he'll post the above stats?  Of course not.  But - 6 games isn't a meaningless sample size.  He's a sophomore.  Let's get him more experience.  Perhaps along the way we start to win some of these games.  Furthermore, it likely helps JJJ feel positive about his future at MU and under Wojo/hopefully eliminates any thoughts of transferring.

[We R Final Four]

Go back to the Butler and watch JJJs D. He attempted to make a steal 3 trips in a row and got schooled because of it on all 3. His offensive production does not make up for this. Giving JJJ more minutes doesn't necessarily equate to more offensive production, but it absolutely will lead to defensive deficiencies.....and more fouls to our bigs when they need to help to cover his mistakes.

[connie]

OK.

[Johnny B]

Most overrated 27th best player in his class I've ever seen, at least this year

[BCHoopster]

But not winning with the seniors give them all more pt time


Wilson Duane
JJJ
Cohen
Taylor
Fisher

Why not

[Johnny B]

But not winning with the seniors give them all more pt time


Wilson Duane
JJJ
Cohen
Taylor
Fisher

Why not

We basically do that but Derrick and carlino are gonna play somtimes

[BCHoopster]

We basically do that but Derrick and carlino are gonna play somtimes

They play 60 minutes a game make it 20

[NersEllenson]

Go back to the Butler and watch JJJs D. He attempted to make a steal 3 trips in a row and got schooled because of it on all 3. His offensive production does not make up for this. Giving JJJ more minutes doesn't necessarily equate to more offensive production, but it absolutely will lead to defensive deficiencies.....and more fouls to our bigs when they need to help to cover his mistakes.

Except Bama's advanced stats show our defense was MUCH better as a team when JJJ was playing more minutes.  I'll submit back to you this:  Against Butler, Wojo briefly went to a 1-3-1 zone.  As I recall he only did it for 2 possessions, both with JJJ in the game - both resulted in turnovers.  I need to go back and watch the game again and see how our Man D played.  Still not a fan of it for this team.

I get that to get steals at times you gamble and get out of position - yet I still like aggressive play.  Hard to argue with a guy who averages 3.0 steals per game in games played more than 25 per game.

OK.

LOL - Figured you'd shoot a blank trying to make any point other than your continued efforts to champion why Derrick Wilson should play more than 30+ minutes per game.  Sure wish Derrick would put up some numbers comparable to the above - the team would be about 16-5 if that were the case.

[We R Final Four]

Except Bama's advanced stats show our defense was MUCH better as a team when JJJ was playing more minutes.  I'll submit back to you this:  Against Butler, Wojo briefly went to a 1-3-1 zone.  As I recall he only did it for 2 possessions, both with JJJ in the game - both resulted in turnovers.  I need to go back and watch the game again and see how our Man D played.  Still not a fan of it for this team.

I get that to get steals at times you gamble and get out of position - yet I still like aggressive play.  Hard to argue with a guy who averages 3.0 steals per game in games played more than 25 per game.

LOL - Figured you'd shoot a blank trying to make any point other than your continued efforts to champion why Derrick Wilson should play more than 30+ minutes per game.  Sure wish Derrick would put up some numbers comparable to the above - the team would be about 16-5 if that were the case.

Ners--your agenda is clear.  Complain all you want. It's just shocking to me that Wojo doesn't get it....but you do.
I have witnessed several occasions When JJJ doesn't box out on the weak side and has no idea what he is supposed to do and the opponents shot goes in. You know what your stats say? That he did absolutely nothing wrong---when in fact he did everything wrong.

[Lighthouse 84]

I'm pretty sure it was JjJ who let the rebound fall to the guy laying on the floor. No box out, no aggression going after the ball.

[eg021]

His defense isn't stellar, but we have played a lot of zone defense. So this isn't much of a glaring issue to me.

The problem I have with JJJ is he takes some bad shots. Sometimes goes 1 on 3 or takes a contested 3 early in the shot clock.

I think he's going to play more tentative since Wojo has a quick leash for him. I do find it hard to believe he was so horrendous in practice mid-year that as a coach you can't have him give one of our guys who's gassed a quick breather. Maybe he practices like Iverson, I'm not there to see it.

The one thing about JJJ and Sandy Cohen, they've proven to be streak scorers. JJJ has been SOTG twice this year, and when things are going right for him, he can score in bunches. That type of attack could greatly help our team who struggles to hit 60 points in conference. I think both of those guys need an extended 5-6 minute run in the 1st half to see if its their night. When they get 2 minute stints, its hard to get into the flow of the game and make that one shot before getting yanked.

[We R Final Four]

His defense isn't stellar, but we have played a lot of zone defense. So this isn't much of a glaring issue to me.

The problem I have with JJJ is he takes some bad shots. Sometimes goes 1 on 3 or takes a contested 3 early in the shot clock.

I think he's going to play more tentative since Wojo has a quick leash for him. I do find it hard to believe he was so horrendous in practice mid-year that as a coach you can't have him give one of our guys who's gassed a quick breather. Maybe he practices like Iverson, I'm not there to see it.

The one thing about JJJ and Sandy Cohen, they've proven to be streak scorers. JJJ has been SOTG twice this year, and when things are going right for him, he can score in bunches. That type of attack could greatly help our team who struggles to hit 60 points in conference. I think both of those guys need an extended 5-6 minute run in the 1st half to see if its their night. When they get 2 minute stints, its hard to get into the flow of the game and make that one shot before getting yanked.

JJJ more often than not gets yanked for his brutal D.....when that is coupled with poor decisions on the offensive end---it's an easy call for Wojo.

[eg021]

JJJ more often than not gets yanked for his brutal D.....when that is coupled with poor decisions on the offensive end---it's an easy call for Wojo.

We'd have to pull a lot of our guys then for the same reason. Luke doesn't move his feet well defensively and puts guys on the charity stripe because of it. Duane Wilson forces a 3 pointer and then fouls an 88% FT shooter 90 feet away form the basket during crunch time. Carlino gets blown by defensively consistently (Nebraska Omaha guards had their way with him).

I'm more than OK with guys getting pulled for bad defense and mental blunders, but Wojo isn't consistent about it.

[Lennys Tap]

JJJ is a hot topic of debate here.  If I said there is a player on the roster who would give us this production if they were given 25+ minutes per game per night - would anybody in their right mind say he doesn't deserve 25+?

6 games of 25+ minutes against 4 of our Top 6 wins for the year:  TN Martin, OSU (loss), NJIT, ASU, North Dakota, Providence.

Averages:

29.3 minutes per game.  13.6ppg.  4.3 rebounds per game.  2.5 assists per game. 3.0 steals per game  2.6 turnovers per game.

Like most talented players, it helps when you get long stretches of run/playing time.  The above alone are all that needs to be said for what can be done to improve this team.  Does it mean every game JJJ plays 25+ he'll post the above stats?  Of course not.  But - 6 games isn't a meaningless sample size.  He's a sophomore.  Let's get him more experience.  Perhaps along the way we start to win some of these games.  Furthermore, it likely helps JJJ feel positive about his future at MU and under Wojo/hopefully eliminates any thoughts of transferring.

Are you really doing this again? Unproven guys who play terribly more often than not are not given long leashes by any coaches in any sports. Period. They either earn them in practice or short spurts in games or they don't earn/get them at all. Their leashes are extended when they play well. Of course JJJ has better numbers when he plays 25 minutes - when he plays 15 decent ones he gets an extra 10. When he plays lousy for 15 he doesn't get any more.

You might as well argue that the reason a starting pitcher is struggling is because the manager is taking him out too soon. His numbers, you say, are much better when the manager gives him a long leash, pitches him 7+ innings. Of course they are, but do you keep a guy in for 7 who gives up 5 runs in the first 3 innings? If he's Nolan Ryan, maybe. If he's your usually unreliable 5th starter, no way. But on those rare occasions when he has his command you do.

Performance results in playing time. Not the other way around. Why do I think you feel that you're still upset about not getting a long enough leash yourself?

[GGGG]

+/- from yesterday's game:

Cohen: +4
Carlino: 0
Duane: 0
STJ: -2
Luke: -2
Derrick: -3
Juan: -8
JJJ: -11

+/- is an imperfect statistic because it matters who you play with...but still.

[Shark]

For a team with as much divide as some posters would suggest, they all seem to get along really well in real life and on social media. I think we all just have to relax. As some people on here say, respect the process. I'm really a badger fan?!

[Nukem2]

+/- from yesterday's game:

Cohen: +4
Carlino: 0
Duane: 0
STJ: -2
Luke: -2
Derrick: -3
Juan: -8
JJJ: -11

+/- is an imperfect statistic because it matters who you play with...but still.

JJ was not on the floor after 6:39 to go in regulation.  And, yes, it is a rather suspect stat in isolation.  JJ had a relatively decent game albeit certainly not perfect.  But that's true of every guy yesterday and most days.

[NersEllenson]

Are you really doing this again? Unproven guys who play terribly more often than not are not given long leashes by any coaches in any sports. Period. They either earn them in practice or short spurts in games or they don't earn/get them at all. Their leashes are extended when they play well. Of course JJJ has better numbers when he plays 25 minutes - when he plays 15 decent ones he gets an extra 10. When he plays lousy for 15 he doesn't get any more.

You might as well argue that the reason a starting pitcher is struggling is because the manager is taking him out too soon. His numbers, you say, are much better when the manager gives him a long leash, pitches him 7+ innings. Of course they are, but do you keep a guy in for 7 who gives up 5 runs in the first 3 innings? If he's Nolan Ryan, maybe. If he's your usually unreliable 5th starter, no way. But on those rare occasions when he has his command you do.

Performance results in playing time. Not the other way around. Why do I think you feel that you're still upset about not getting a long enough leash yourself?

I can't explain it to you Lenny - as I know basketball wasn't your game - and I don't mean that like a jack ass.  All I can tell you is that just because you come into a game and have a turnover, and miss your first 2 shots - perhaps they were good shots too - it doesn't mean you are going to suck for a whole game.  

Trying to use a baseball analogy to compare a starting pitcher to a basketball player is simply not a good comparison.  

The numbers don't lie - give JJJ 25+ and he'll produce - and against decent teams.  

And performance results in playing time?? What in God's green earth did Derrick Wilson's performance last year indicate he should be leading the team in playing time?  

Lastly, the length of leash has varied greatly for Wojo - which is a big beef I have with him.  Duane Wilson has gotten a VERY long leash.  Juan at times has.  Derrick has.  Hell, the whole team has - JJJ rarely gets a long leash - and players recognize this and it doesn't bode well for a player's attitude.

[79Warrior]

Ners--your agenda is clear.  Complain all you want. It's just shocking to me that Wojo doesn't get it....but you do.
I have witnessed several occasions When JJJ doesn't box out on the weak side and has no idea what he is supposed to do and the opponents shot goes in. You know what your stats say? That he did absolutely nothing wrong---when in fact he did everything wrong.

Please. The poster was a HS basketball star. You just don't get it. Neither diid Buzz. Neither does Wojo. You need to play at the H S level to really understand.

[NersEllenson]

Please. The poster was a HS basketball star. You just don't get it. Neither diid Buzz. Neither does Wojo. You need to play at the H S level to really understand.

You impressed with Wojo's coaching thus far?  Taking Duane out for a critical 4 minute stretch in GTown game?  Yesterday's meltdown?  Losing Burton and Dawson?

I have no doubt you were a great fan in the stands cheering your high school team on to victory 79.  You are a gem.

[Lennys Tap]

I can't explain it to you Lenny - as I know basketball wasn't your game - and I don't mean that like a jack ass.  All I can tell you is that just because you come into a game and have a turnover, and miss your first 2 shots - perhaps they were good shots too - it doesn't mean you are going to suck for a whole game.  

Saying that you can't explain a simple concept that a two year old could grasp is insulting. Of course I'm well aware that if you come into a game and have a turnover and miss your first two shots it doesn't mean you're going to suck the whole game.  Conversely, if you come into a game and have a steal and hit your first 2 shots it doesn't mean you're going to be a star the whole game. I get that. But suppose for a moment that you have a player on your bench who is a) your most turnover prone player, b) given to  frequent defensive lapses and c) the worst 3 point shooter in Big East conference games in the entire freakin' history of the league (with more than 20 attempts). And suppose when you put him in the game he turns it over, loses his man and gives up a lay up and shoots (and of course misses, since that's all he does) a three in his first five minutes. Way more often than not that's what happens with JJJ in games against decent competition. And he gets pulled, ends the game 0-4, 0-2 from three with 2 turnovers in 15 minutes. But, on those rare occasions that he's 3-5, only 0-1 from 3 with maybe 1 turnover and an assist or a steal he "EARNS" an extra 10 minutes. Of course his numbers are better with the extra playing time - his initial 15 minutes of relative success have assured that. That's just math.

He's on a short leash because he is, based on performance, the worst of our five backcourt players. Offensively, defensively, basketball IQ-wise, any way you want to measure, the worst - and it is not close. On top of it he's at best a goofball and at worst an attitude problem. If that's the guy you would hitch your wagon to as a coach then I don't know what to say. Coaches (in every sport) want players they can trust. JJJ is the antithesis of that. You may know basketball but if you don't know that you don't know coaching it or any other sport.

[MU82]

I can't explain it to you Lenny - as I know basketball wasn't your game - and I don't mean that like a jack ass.  

\

Well, you do sound like a jackass.

I have posed this question a couple other ways, and I'll try again:

If we are to defer to you because you played more high school basketball than we did, shouldn't you defer to Wojo, who was a multiple-year starter at Duke? And if Dickey Simpkins, who won three NBA titles with the Bulls after an outstanding career at Providence, thinks Derrick is a fine point guard, why should what a former high-school player says have more relevance?

You can't have it both ways, Ners. You can't be smarter than non-ex-prepsters because you played high school hoops and also be smarter than guys who, unlike you, were good enough to play college and pro hoops.

Because if you are smarter than the guys who played college and pro hoops, it stands to reason that those who didn't play high school hoops very possibly are smarter than you.

[NersEllenson]

\

Well, you do sound like a jackass.

I have posed this question a couple other ways, and I'll try again:

If we are to defer to you because you played more high school basketball than we did, shouldn't you defer to Wojo, who was a multiple-year starter at Duke? And if Dickey Simpkins, who won three NBA titles with the Bulls after an outstanding career at Providence, thinks Derrick is a fine point guard, why should what a former high-school player says have more relevance?

You can't have it both ways, Ners. You can't be smarter than non-ex-prepsters because you played high school hoops and also be smarter than guys who, unlike you, were good enough to play college and pro hoops.

Because if you are smarter than the guys who played college and pro hoops, it stands to reason that those who didn't play high school hoops very possibly are smarter than you.

Nobody here has to "defer to me."  Guys on the other side of the issue make their points, are convicted in their convictions, and don't back down from them either.  They feel they are right.  I feel I'm right on the matter with regard to my opinions.

Some here want to defer to the "I have to believe the opinions of guys who are paid millions of dollars to make better decisions or know better than you."  Sure - that is a very valid point.  However, because you are paid millions of dollars to make decisions does NOT absolve one of making bad decisions.

We just saw it in the Super Bowl.  Saw it in Green Bay's game against Seattle.  At the end of the day the quality of a coach, and their decisions - is measured in the team's won/loss record.  Buzz turned in a crap performance last season.  And so far, quite frankly, Wojo isn't doing all that well contrary to what the "slurpers" here want to believe.

While the good soldier mentality is admirable many times in life, and supporting your leader is noble it doesn't mean their leadership can't be called into question - particularly when the "organization" isn't ultimately performing well under their leadership.

As for respecting someone who has played the game - yes - I'll always respect their opinion more than guys who didn't.  And, obviously there are guys here who disagree with me that have at least played the game at the high school level.  And yes, I believe guys who have played the game more, and at a higher level than me, ultimately know more about the game as a whole than do I.  However, that doesn't mean that I HAVE to agree with their conclusions about a player's merits.  Disagreements prevail among "experts" as to a player's talent/potential frequently in sports at the highest levels among highly paid professionals.

And as for Dickie Simpkins - If you are so incredibly naive as to not realize the MU PR Machine went to work on Dickie  -I don't know what to tell you.  The guy called about 25 MU games and never once had much of anything to say about Derrick.  Then out of left field one game, Dickie just starts gushing and slobbering all over Derrick in such an over the top way - it actually lost all credibility.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

JJJ is a hot topic of debate here. 

Only among 4-5 posters.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

JJJ is a hot topic of debate here.

Actually he's not. 99% of Marquette fans believe he's inconsistent at best, and terrible at basketball at worst.

Furthermore, it likely helps JJJ feel positive about his future at MU and under Wojo/hopefully eliminates any thoughts of transferring.

If JjJ transfers because he's not happy with the playing time he's earning, he only need look in a mirror for the source of the problem. I will wish him luck, thank him for his service, and never think about him again. Fortunately, I don't believe JjJ is like that. I think he is a hard working kid who will work ass off during the offseason to get better. Hopefully, he can have a Vander-like improvement between his Sophomore and Junior campaigns. I know Wojo is having him fix that awful shooting form he has. That is a process that takes time.

You are the only person I know who thinks more minutes leads to better production. It is basketball 101 that a player's effectiveness drops the longer he plays in a single game. The reason JjJ's stats are better when he gets 25+ minutes? It's because he earned them in those games! He was playing well so he got more minutes. Production leads to more minutes, not the other way around.