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Author Topic: How bright is our future?  (Read 36330 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2015, 11:30:23 PM »
C'mon, Chico. That's horsesh1t and you know it!

Taught Novak how to shoot, Diener how to pass and the students how to clap. And John Boehner how to tan. How did we ever let him go?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2015, 11:48:10 PM »
C'mon, Chico. That's horsesh1t and you know it!

Coaches say all kinds of things, like kids can't shoot, or kids can't play a lick of defense, can't go to his left, can't this, cant that....etc.

I remember one coach that said.....



MU82

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2015, 11:54:19 PM »
I'm saying he transferred for many reasons, including his frustration with how he was playing and being used at Mississippi State.  Here's one example:


Jackson averaged 5.8 points and 3.8 rebounds that year, then had solid sophomore and junior seasons but wasn't happy.

"I just didn't feel like I was improving," he said. "I was doing things just because I was bigger and stronger than the other guys. But basically I was just playing with my back to the basket."

Stansbury granted Jackson's request to be released from his scholarship, and Jackson set his sights on Marquette and its new coach, Tom Crean.

"If you've only got one year left, why not go home?" Jackson said.

Well, looking at his direct quotes, he said that he wanted to go home, that he wasn't improving at MSU and that he was playing with his back to the basket.

Nowhere does he say he didn't know how to complete basic fundamentals, such as a left-handed layup. Nor does he say he needed Crean to teach him those fundamentals.

And in his one season at Marquette, he played very similarly to how he played at MSU but was surrounded by better players, including one of the top 50 in the history of basketball.

His "improvement" in his one season at Marquette didn't impress NBA GMs, who summarily ignored him on draft night and never employed him for even one second in the league.

I actually was a big Robert Jackson fan; I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him. And I am not a Crean hater. I've simply never liked conveniently rewritten history.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2015, 12:05:33 AM »
Coaches say all kinds of things, like kids can't shoot, or kids can't play a lick of defense, can't go to his left, can't this, cant that....etc.

I remember one coach that said.....




What could this possibly have to do with Tom Crean's self aggrandizing claim that he taught Robert Jackson to shoot lay ups? Al never patted himself on the back or said he taught Pat Smith to shoot. Pat had been ejected along with a DePaul player for fighting. Afterwards, Ray Meyer complained "we lost our top scorer and they lost a guy who couldn't throw a ball in Lake Michigan if he was standing on the beach". Al (Meyer's close friend) loved the quote but had to get the last laugh.



PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2015, 07:37:42 AM »
Well, looking at his direct quotes, he said that he wanted to go home, that he wasn't improving at MSU and that he was playing with his back to the basket.

Nowhere does he say he didn't know how to complete basic fundamentals, such as a left-handed layup. Nor does he say he needed Crean to teach him those fundamentals.

And in his one season at Marquette, he played very similarly to how he played at MSU but was surrounded by better players, including one of the top 50 in the history of basketball.

His "improvement" in his one season at Marquette didn't impress NBA GMs, who summarily ignored him on draft night and never employed him for even one second in the league.

I actually was a big Robert Jackson fan; I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him. And I am not a Crean hater. I've simply never liked conveniently rewritten history.
I am telling you right now, we do not win that Kentucky game without Bob Jackson. The first 5 to 10 minutes of the game he was the only one who hadn't soiled himself. He made the rest of them realize we could beat them. Once Wade got comfortable it was all she wrote.

GGGG

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2015, 08:16:35 AM »
I am telling you right now, we do not win that Kentucky game without Bob Jackson. The first 5 to 10 minutes of the game he was the only one who hadn't soiled himself. He made the rest of them realize we could beat them. Once Wade got comfortable it was all she wrote.


Exactly.  Lost in Wade's triple-double was that Robert Jackson went for 24/15 and basically shut down Marquis Estill, who famously claimed that he had no recollection of playing against Jackson when he was at MSU.

brewcity77

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2015, 08:47:59 AM »
+ Henry, Haanif, Heldt, Noskowiak

- Carlino, J.Anderson, Derrick

Without adding another "carlino/Lockett" type immediate transfer, next year could presumably be worse?

Carlino and Derrick will be the toughest to replace. Carlino because shooters like that don't grow on trees and Derrick because of his steady leadership on both ends. But I'm confident your +/- won't be reflective of what the team actually looks like next year.

First, we are also adding Wally. While he may not be the star his brother is, I do think he can fill the energy off the bench/rebounding role that Juan should be in. Many write him off because of Minnesota, but he did battle injuries as a freshman before being written off by a coach that didn't recruit him as a sophomore. Maybe he's just an empty jersey, but I doubt it.

I expect we will add a JUCO PG that can handle, distribute, and shoot the three. I'm a little surprised we haven't offered anyone, but that seems to be part of Wojo's style. I also think we look for another scorer. Whether a JUCO wing or a graduate transfer, I definitely think the staff wants another experienced guy that can put the ball in the basket. If they added Tyrone Outlaw and Dequon Miller, that would very nicely fill the void left by Matt and Derrick.

That leaves us with one open scholarship (likely Anim) and then you factor in the addition of the freshmen. Of course, there's always the possibility we have a transfer, don't fill any vacancies, and go into next year with only 9 scholarship players. But I would be beyond flabbergasted if that were the case. Highly unlikely the scholarship table looks the same in 8 months as it does today.
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MU82

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2015, 08:54:30 AM »
I am telling you right now, we do not win that Kentucky game without Bob Jackson.

Glad to see you seconding what I said in my comment: I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him.
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wadesworld

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2015, 08:55:22 AM »
Thank you.

By the way, when Robert Jackson arrived the following year, Crean claimed he could barely make a layup...had to "re-teach" him as I recall.

I'm usually pretty good on picking up sarcasm, but...this has to be sarcasm, right?  Or...
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Lennys Tap

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2015, 09:11:47 AM »
I'm usually pretty good on picking up sarcasm, but...this has to be sarcasm, right?  Or...

Not sarcasm. TC didn't do sarcasm. Just another in a long list of bizarre, self aggrandizing statements from our former leader.

WarriorPride68

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2015, 09:39:34 AM »
The Wally love on Scoop is next level.

Two seasons at Minnesota:
2 ppg, 1 reb, 0.2 assts, 0.1 blocks, 0 stls

30 % FG
15 % 3P
25 % FT


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2015, 09:56:36 AM »
Well, looking at his direct quotes, he said that he wanted to go home, that he wasn't improving at MSU and that he was playing with his back to the basket.

Nowhere does he say he didn't know how to complete basic fundamentals, such as a left-handed layup. Nor does he say he needed Crean to teach him those fundamentals.

And in his one season at Marquette, he played very similarly to how he played at MSU but was surrounded by better players, including one of the top 50 in the history of basketball.

His "improvement" in his one season at Marquette didn't impress NBA GMs, who summarily ignored him on draft night and never employed him for even one second in the league.

I actually was a big Robert Jackson fan; I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him. And I am not a Crean hater. I've simply never liked conveniently rewritten history.

That was just one quote, I'm not rewriting any history....there are other quotes, other interviews...that is hardly the only one.  Note that I said twice there were a number of reasons he left, that particular quote substantiates TWO of them (not improving, chance to get home).  Notice how no one has produce the alleged quote from the coach...tsk tsk.. ;)

My memory is that coach said something to the effect that he lacked some of the fundamentals including his left handed layup and Robert confirmed that...be it on radio or television show or whatever.  I'll be happy to search high and low to find the actual quote if the original comment by the coach is produced. 

I'm about to get on a plane to the northwest to attend a wedding of a former MU Athletic department member.  This is a reunion of sorts with many of us that worked during the KO, Deane, Crean era.  Should be some good stories this weekend....perhaps I'll ask them their memories.


GGGG

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2015, 11:23:04 AM »
The Wally love on Scoop is next level.

Two seasons at Minnesota:
2 ppg, 1 reb, 0.2 assts, 0.1 blocks, 0 stls

30 % FG
15 % 3P
25 % FT


So you are taking his statistics completely out of context.  That's cool.

wadesworld

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2015, 11:24:17 AM »
Not sarcasm. TC didn't do sarcasm. Just another in a long list of bizarre, self aggrandizing statements from our former leader.

Wow, so a big who played in the SEC didn't know how to make a left handed layup yet was still able to average over 10 ppg in 3 seasons?  You would think in high major college basketball that teams would be able to figure out how to take away his right hand in the post if he couldn't even make a layup with his left, and the guy wasn't roaming around knocking down 3 pointers.  He was as true of a post as you will find, yet he couldn't utilize his left hand and still scored in double digits.  Crazy.  And thankfully our mastermind coach figured this out, fixed it, and he only averaged...3 ppg more than he did when he was a sophomore, year years prior to that?  Yikes.  Guess MSU's coach was better at finding a way to get his big the ball in areas he could score then, considering he only had half of the skillset to work with that Jackson had after Crean coached him up!  (Hah, there's an oxymoron)
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Earl Tatum

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2015, 11:48:59 AM »
Regardless of people who know--- We got Henry, Wally, Heldt, Cheatham, and hopefully Nick. Now if we get
Anim and STONE (is the guy who could put us over the hump), possibly Council. 2016, Sam Hauser or Amir
Coffey would look real good in a MU Jersey. That's what it would take. Fischer, Wilson and Cohen is a decent
start. I hope Wojo will still be here. I am a WOJO WARRIOR.

GGGG

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2015, 11:53:51 AM »
For the one millionth time...Diamond Stone is not coming to MU.

You might as well start fantasizing about Ivan Rabb coming to MU, because there is just as likely a chance.

Lennys Tap

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2015, 12:13:21 PM »
I give Wojo a total pass this year. Buzz's departure cost us 75% of our recruiting class, our returning upperclassmen (Derrick, Juan and Steve) were underwhelming and the two highest rated guys from last year's freshman class either left (Deonte) or were a bust (JJJ). The only reason we're even a little respectable is that he was able to bring in a graduate transfer who's by far been our best player. For that he gets major props.

Going forward, I'm hopeful. Buzz only had 3 Crean leftovers in year 2 (Hayward, Acker and Cubillan) and none in year 3. In year 2 we made the tournament and in year three began our S16, S16, E8 run. Wojo returns Taylor, Duane, Luke and Sandy (not counting on JJJ - hope I'm wrong) in year 2 and all but Taylor from that group in year 3. Given that a 5*, 2-3 4*s (and hopefully a juco or 2 and maybe a 1 year graduate player) are on the way I think it's reasonable to hope that Wojo's MU teams have a similar trajectory to Buzz's. That would be wonderful. Anything better than that would be over the moon wonderful. Go get 'em, Wojo.

Lennys Tap

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2015, 12:14:33 PM »
For the one millionth time...Diamond Stone is not coming to MU.

You might as well start fantasizing about Ivan Rabb coming to MU, because there is just as likely a chance.

Wait...Ivan Rabb is coming to MU? OMG!!!!

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2015, 12:25:39 PM »

Exactly.  Lost in Wade's triple-double was that Robert Jackson went for 24/15 and basically shut down Marquis Estill, who famously claimed that he had no recollection of playing against Jackson when he was at MSU.

Agree completely.  Which is why the flawed logic that we only won because of D Wade is turned on it's ear time and time again.  Diener stepped up, Novak, Bradlee, Jackson, Merritt.

What a team.  Haven't had anything close to that team since then in terms of overall balance.

A lot of fun.  Hopefully in the next 10 to 20 years, we can get another one like that.


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2015, 12:28:17 PM »
I'm usually pretty good on picking up sarcasm, but...this has to be sarcasm, right?  Or...

No different than Buzz or anyone else as a coach saying a player couldn't do X when he arrived and when he left he was the cat's meow.  Coaches do this all the time.

The famous "when x arrived on campus, he could barely walk and chew gum, couldn't shoot a lick, didn't know where the bathroom is, and was the worst defender I had ever seen"...."but I am so proud of him now and his accomplishments, blah, blah, blah, blah".

There are literally 100's if not 1000's of examples of this from coaches talking about players.

Some of you make this out like some grand conspiracy....laughable.


wadesworld

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2015, 12:32:34 PM »
No different than Buzz or anyone else as a coach saying a player couldn't do X when he arrived and when he left he was the cat's meow.  Coaches do this all the time.

The famous "when x arrived on campus, he could barely walk and chew gum, couldn't shoot a lick, didn't know where the bathroom is, and was the worst defender I had ever seen"...."but I am so proud of him now and his accomplishments, blah, blah, blah, blah".

There are literally 100's if not 1000's of examples of this from coaches talking about players.

Some of you make this out like some grand conspiracy....laughable.



Except the difference is Robert Jackson came in for his 4th and 5th years in college, and in his first 3 years in college he averaged over 10 ppg.  So not exactly an apples to oranges comparison, but hey, Crean sure made Bob Jackson a playa!
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2015, 12:40:53 PM »
For the one millionth time...Diamond Stone is not coming to MU.

You might as well start fantasizing about Ivan Rabb coming to MU, because there is just as likely a chance.

+10000

WarriorPride68

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2015, 12:41:45 PM »

So you are taking his statistics completely out of context.  That's cool.


If his last name wasn't Ellenson nobody would care

GGGG

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2015, 12:44:08 PM »
Agree completely.  Which is why the flawed logic that we only won because of D Wade is turned on it's ear time and time again.  Diener stepped up, Novak, Bradlee, Jackson, Merritt.

What a team.  Haven't had anything close to that team since then in terms of overall balance.

A lot of fun.  Hopefully in the next 10 to 20 years, we can get another one like that.


I'm not sure what you mean by "overall balance."  The 2002-03 team was pretty top heavy in terms of offensive load.  The 2012-13 and 2013-14 teams were better balanced.  Shots, scoring and minutes were more evenly distributed.  And the 2013-14 team fell one step short of the 2002-03 one.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 12:47:45 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

GGGG

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Re: How bright is our future?
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM »

If his last name wasn't Ellenson nobody would care


No, I am smart enough to look at someone's career and figure out that he was injured much of his first year and fell out of favor his second, and that he is a 6'6" explosive athlete who fills a role that MU will lose when Juan leaves this year.

No one has said he will be a superstar or all conference.