Lost Cause

[dgies9156]

Gosh I hate losing. I really do!

But I think this season is a lost cause. The light I saw at the end of the tunnel against Georgetown either disappeared or was freight train against Seton Hall. I missed the game but it appears we did little right. I had a lot of enthusiasm for us after Georgetown but then I see the SH game description and realize that we're regressing. We can't win on the road to save our lives (where's USF when we need them?). The usual JJJ problems recurred and somehow we let SH shoot the lights out from three-land.

My worst fear at this point is that Wojo needs to "blow it all up." We have three seniors -- Carlino, Derrick and Juan. We've also lost Burton to a change of scenery and its debatable whether Jujuan be back. The verdict is out on Steve Taylor Jr., though I do hope he can find a way to live up to the talent he had coming in. Luke, Duane and Sandy are our future, but it may take a couple of years to get back to the winning ways that most of us want to be at.

We seem to need too much, too fast. If Wojo can take what's coming back, mesh it with what's coming in and get productivity next year, my lord he'd be the greatest coach we ever had (sorry Al). I hope he does this and is, but I just don't see cause for optimism right now.

[MUfan12]

It was one game. They've been in every game this season. The close losses had to be discouraging, and they let themselves get defeated when Hall hit everything they put up to start the half.

If they get trucked by Butler, then you can talk about regressing and blowing it up.

[willie warrior]

Gosh I hate losing. I really do!

But I think this season is a lost cause. The light I saw at the end of the tunnel against Georgetown either disappeared or was freight train against Seton Hall. I missed the game but it appears we did little right. I had a lot of enthusiasm for us after Georgetown but then I see the SH game description and realize that we're regressing. We can't win on the road to save our lives (where's USF when we need them?). The usual JJJ problems recurred and somehow we let SH shoot the lights out from three-land.

My worst fear at this point is that Wojo needs to "blow it all up." We have three seniors -- Carlino, Derrick and Juan. We've also lost Burton to a change of scenery and its debatable whether Jujuan be back. The verdict is out on Steve Taylor Jr., though I do hope he can find a way to live up to the talent he had coming in. Luke, Duane and Sandy are our future, but it may take a couple of years to get back to the winning ways that most of us want to be at.

We seem to need too much, too fast. If Wojo can take what's coming back, mesh it with what's coming in and get productivity next year, my lord he'd be the greatest coach we ever had (sorry Al). I hope he does this and is, but I just don't see cause for optimism right now.

Thank you Burt, for leaving the program in such good shape. A huge phony meathead.

[NavinRJohnson]

You think this season is a lost cause? This season was a lost cause before it began. Really not sure what the heck "blow it all up" means either. It was already blown up 10 months ago with the coaching change.

[rocky_warrior]

My mantra for the season has been...Low expectations, high hopes.

This MU team has lived up to my expectations, and I still have hope they'll start playing well 40 minutes per game, instead of the 30 min we've all gotten used to.

[brewcity77]

I'm curious what's meant by "blow it up". If you mean give more minutes to Luke, Duane, and Sandy, how much more do you want to give them? Look at their minutes the last 4 games:

Luke: 27.8 mpg
Duane: 28.8 mpg
Sandy: 22.8 mpg

Those guys are all playing a pretty fair amount of minutes, and honestly getting out for some stretches probably does them some good both in terms of rest and allowing the staff to use the breaks as teaching moments.

People can spin it any way they want, but Buzz didn't leave much behind. The upperclassmen are tenaciously hard workers, but only have the ability to be at best average starters at this level. 75% of the underclassmen show some good potential, but they're still just freshmen and sophomores. And the rest of our recruiting class ended up leaving before Wojo got a chance.

This was a rebuild from the start. While the guys stuck through the summer, there were always going to be transfers with a new coach and there were always going to be guys that didn't fit into the new system. I think next year will show some improvement and in 2 years I think we'll be back competing for Big East titles. Either way, my guess is less than 25% of our 2015-16 roster will be made up of Buzz recruits. I'd say that's pretty blown up.

[dgies9156]

This was a rebuild from the start. While the guys stuck through the summer, there were always going to be transfers with a new coach and there were always going to be guys that didn't fit into the new system. I think next year will show some improvement and in 2 years I think we'll be back competing for Big East titles. Either way, my guess is less than 25% of our 2015-16 roster will be made up of Buzz recruits. I'd say that's pretty blown up.

My left brain says you are right. My right brain says, yeah... but! To some degree I'm more frustrated than anything. I know the Hillbilly left us with nothing. I think part of the reason he left was he knew this was coming -- and he knew we are rabid and not particularly tolerant of losing (or losers). Especially when our coach makes what the Hillbilly made.

I think it will take two, maybe three years, for us to be back to our rightful place in college basketball. Maybe some JC transfers can help, but I think Wojo needs two more Top 10 or Top 20 recruiting classes to refill the cupboards. In the meantime, YIKES!

[jsglow]

I think it will be interesting to see what fan expectations are next year.  This year Wojo gets a complete pass for obvious reasons.  I wonder what the landscape will look like exactly 12 months from now, both in terms of team performance and on prospects for the future?  I suppose the first couple of glimpses will be player acquisition both later this spring and then with the 2016 class that'll sign in November.  Both will happen before we see any meaningful improvement on the court.

All that said, I'm certainly a Wojo fan at this point.  We just don't have the horses these days.  I can't really recall in recent years the barn being so empty.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think it will take two, maybe three years, for us to be back to our rightful place in college basketball. Maybe some JC transfers can help, but I think Wojo needs two more Top 10 or Top 20 recruiting classes to refill the cupboards.

You say that like its something new. Take a look around...he needs one 'every' year, not just the next couple. If you want to consistently retain a spot in the top 20 every year, guess what. You have to recruit in the Top 20 every year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In my view, no season is a "lost cause" per se.  I'm sure it didn't meet some people's expectations, but is our staff learning and growing?  Are some players getting better, earning experience?  I would categorize it as a lost cause if there was regression across the board, but with such a young staff and many key young players, that isn't the case IMO.

Biggest danger I see is next year expectations will be higher than they should be.  Similar to Fischer expectations this year.  We will be very young next year.  It will be an up or down year, but with a lot of talent.  Probably good enough for a NCAA bid, but you never know.

[StillAWarrior]

Biggest danger I see is next year expectations will be higher than they should be.  Similar to Fischer expectations this year.  We will be very young next year.  It will be an up or down year, but with a lot of talent.  Probably good enough for a NCAA bid, but you never know.

Doing your part to help rein in those high expectations, I see.   

[brewcity77]

I think it will take two, maybe three years, for us to be back to our rightful place in college basketball. Maybe some JC transfers can help, but I think Wojo needs two more Top 10 or Top 20 recruiting classes to refill the cupboards. In the meantime, YIKES!

Well, I'm the eternal optimist, so here's my hope for next year:

Guards: Our coaching staff gets a nice jump out of Duane and brings in a transfer to allow us to keep running a 2-point attack. Noskowiak adds depth and shooting, while Cheatham is a surprising boost as a third ball handler and able defender.

Wings: Henry is our best player from day one. Sandy is a solid starter on both ends and we attract a transfer that gives some scoring punch. Wally and Steve give depth and rebounding, and we add another freshman that can play defense.

Bigs: Luke adds muscle and the addition of the Ellenson brothers takes some pressure off him down low. He becomes a reliable presence on both ends of the floor, while Heldt gives enough to keep Luke out of foul trouble and keep us from having to play half the game at a size deficit.

It's probably not enough to win the league, but it sure looks more competitive. As long as Sandy, Duane, Henry, and some newcomers can hit the three, we can be back to winning ways sooner rather than later.

And yes...I could do a worse case scenario, but optimism is more fun

[GooooMarquette]

As long as conference champions are determined in March, there's no such thing as a lost cause season until the last buzzer.  It's a long shot, but 3 wins on a neutral court in NYC and we'd have an NCAA berth.  I'm not expecting that, but worse teams have done it.  Our BE record sucks, but we've been in every conference game - home and away - except last night.  Wojo and staff need to continue to do whatever they think increases our chances of turning those close losses into wins in NYC.  And it isn't dramatic improvement they're looking for - they're looking for the extra couple of plays that would have made the difference.

The sky is not falling.

[dgies9156]

I think it will be interesting to see what fan expectations are next year.  This year Wojo gets a complete pass for obvious reasons.  I wonder what the landscape will look like exactly 12 months from now, both in terms of team performance and on prospects for the future?  I suppose the first couple of glimpses will be player acquisition both later this spring and then with the 2016 class that'll sign in November.  Both will happen before we see any meaningful improvement on the court.

All that said, I'm certainly a Wojo fan at this point.  We just don't have the horses these days.  I can't really recall in recent years the barn being so empty.

1) Right on regarding the Wojo situation. I like what I see in him. He's shown a lot of growth.

2) Next year's expectations depend on three things. First, how ready is our new group of recruits to compete at a Division 1 level? The hype and the promise is tremendous, but I don't believe yet we know how good these guys will be. Second, who will fill out the 2015-2016 class? We're needing more and the rumors around this boards are not insubstantial. But at issue is how many quality teammates will our returning and recruited group have from the folks still out there. By the way Diamond, there's still room!  Third, can this group gel under Wojo's leadership?

3) I hope the 2015-2016 team is a 9 seed or so in the tournament, but that's no prediction. Just a hope (and maybe a wing and a prayer at this point).

[dgies9156]

As long as conference champions are determined in March, there's no such thing as a lost cause season until the last buzzer.  It's a long shot, but 3 wins on a neutral court in NYC and we'd have an NCAA berth.  I'm not expecting that, but worse teams have done it.  Our BE record sucks, but we've been in every conference game - home and away - except last night.  Wojo and staff need to continue to do whatever they think increases our chances of turning those close losses into wins in NYC.  And it isn't dramatic improvement they're looking for - they're looking for the extra couple of plays that would have made the difference.

The sky is not falling.

But the weed may be burning.

No way this scenario happens with this team.

[GGGG]

1) Right on regarding the Wojo situation. I like what I see in him. He's shown a lot of growth.

2) Next year's expectations depend on three things. First, how ready is our new group of recruits to compete at a Division 1 level? The hype and the promise is tremendous, but I don't believe yet we know how good these guys will be. Second, who will fill out the 2015-2016 class? We're needing more and the rumors around this boards are not insubstantial. But at issue is how many quality teammates will our returning and recruited group have from the folks still out there. By the way Diamond, there's still room!  Third, can this group gel under Wojo's leadership?

3) I hope the 2015-2016 team is a 9 seed or so in the tournament, but that's no prediction. Just a hope (and maybe a wing and a prayer at this point).

1. Agree completely.

2. Really we can only expect Henry to be a solid contributor right off the bat.  What's most important is to see how guys like Duane, Sandy and Luke improve, and what kind of contributions Wally can bring.  Those guys taking leaps is what is going to make a difference.  The other freshmen are likely going to simply be role players.  We also don't know about any Jucos who can come in and make an impact.  Diamond isn't coming to MU.

3. I think that is realistic this far out.  Perhaps a 4 seed in 2016-17.

[FartyEightHours]

But the weed may be burning.

No way this scenario happens with this team.

Once Derrick Wilson gets hot from three, anything can happen.

[brewcity77]

As long as conference champions are determined in March, there's no such thing as a lost cause season until the last buzzer.  It's a long shot, but 3 wins on a neutral court in NYC and we'd have an NCAA berth.

We're not finishing top-6 this year. That means we'll need 4 wins in NYC. 3 will only get us to the title game.

[willie warrior]

Once Derrick Wilson gets hot from three, anything can happen.

Yes, that is a part of his game we need. And if he can become a career 65% FT shooter by year's end, we will be in fat city.

[79Warrior]

In my view, no season is a "lost cause" per se.  I'm sure it didn't meet some people's expectations, but is our staff learning and growing?  Are some players getting better, earning experience?  I would categorize it as a lost cause if there was regression across the board, but with such a young staff and many key young players, that isn't the case IMO.

Biggest danger I see is next year expectations will be higher than they should be.  Similar to Fischer expectations this year.  We will be very young next year.  It will be an up or down year, but with a lot of talent.  Probably good enough for a NCAA bid, but you never know.

As it stands now, we have 5 players returning. We have one bona fide blue chipper coming in, HE. Wally and the other freshman are complete unknowns. Based just on that, I do not see an NCAA bid next season. Now, I am sure more players will be added, but based on the current situation, tough year coming up again.

[zrjones13]

My mantra for the season has been...Low expectations, high hopes.

This MU team has lived up to my expectations, and I still have hope they'll start playing well 40 minutes per game, instead of the 30 min we've all gotten used to.

I'm with Rocky on this.  I had no expectations going into the season and that has helped me through.  It's been rough being "in" all these games with chances to win, but with our youth and short bench it's tough.  We still have nine games plus the BET to improve, which was my goal for the year.  The thing about the BET is you never know what will happen marquette has been in every game all you have do is win 4 games.

[Lennys Tap]

Carlino is playing better than he knows how - 44% 3 point shooting considering the tough looks he gets and the prayers he has to launch at the end of shot clocks is crazy good.

Derrick is getting every ounce out of his limited ability.

Same for Juan.

Duane's performance has been up and down but he's grown a great deal.

Same for Sandy.

Luke needs strength and won't progress until he gets it.

I'll never figure Steve out, Wojo probably won't either.

JJJ is enduring a second consecutive winter of discontent. Buzz couldn't turn on the light. Neither can Wojo. Or JJJ himself. Maybe there is no there there.

Wojo is doing fine. Actually, better than fine IMO. We're just not very good. We can win games if we're lights out or if our opponents play bad, but all things being equal we'll lose more often than not in conference play because we're outmanned. Not unexpected. We lost Burton and never got Hill, Shayok and Pierce. Coaching changes these days usually leave the new guy scrambling for a couple of years. We're playing hard and 7 of our 8 guys are doing what the coaching staff is asking of them. Patience.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Doing your part to help rein in those high expectations, I see.   

Fair point.

I really meant it as a hedge against the whackos here that will have us in the Final Four next year.  I suspect we will be fighting it out most of the year to get to the tournament.

[MUMountin]

And, I think it is important to remember that the Big East is on an upswing this year.  Good for the conference, bad for us.   

[tower912]

I had low expectations for this season from a W/L perspective.    I saw this year as a 'soft open' for Wojo and his coaching staff.    All I have been looking for is growth, learning, effort.    I have seen those.   

[keefe]

This is all on that sonuvabitch Bert!

[Goose]

Hardly feel this year is a lost cause for several reasons. Wojo having a difficult first season might be far better than stepping into a S16 type situation in the long run. One or two of the young guys, JJJ, DuWil or Cohen, will come out of this season a much improved player. Luke is getting PT which he needs and he will benefit a great deal playing alongside HE next season.

This season I had ZERO expectations or hopes aside from watching Carlino. Everything expected on my front has been met. I have no idea if Wojo can coach a lick at this point, but my guess is he a crowd favorite with the BOT and admin. At this point I am a GREAT deal less frustrated about our situation than I was 12 months ago.

[Henry Sugar]

I figured MU was about a 14-15 win season, and would have put any record above 0.500 as exceeds expectations.

We're slightly underperforming, but A) there's a lot of season left and B) we're not that far off.

[CTWarrior]

...but 3 wins on a neutral court in NYC and we'd have an NCAA berth...

We're gonna need 4

[MUfan12]

I have no idea if Wojo can coach a lick at this point, but my guess is he a crowd favorite with the BOT and admin.

He can really coach. Because of the personnel, he's had to vary greatly from what he wants to do on both ends of the court. But he's adjusted, and kept them competitive.

That said, he's got some room to improve in-game, but for the most part my concerns about his coaching ability are gone.

[humanlung]

Gosh I hate losing. I really do!

But I think this season is a lost cause. The light I saw at the end of the tunnel against Georgetown either disappeared or was freight train against Seton Hall. I missed the game but it appears we did little right. I had a lot of enthusiasm for us after Georgetown but then I see the SH game description and realize that we're regressing. We can't win on the road to save our lives (where's USF when we need them?). The usual JJJ problems recurred and somehow we let SH shoot the lights out from three-land.

My worst fear at this point is that Wojo needs to "blow it all up." We have three seniors -- Carlino, Derrick and Juan. We've also lost Burton to a change of scenery and its debatable whether Jujuan be back. The verdict is out on Steve Taylor Jr., though I do hope he can find a way to live up to the talent he had coming in. Luke, Duane and Sandy are our future, but it may take a couple of years to get back to the winning ways that most of us want to be at.

We seem to need too much, too fast. If Wojo can take what's coming back, mesh it with what's coming in and get productivity next year, my lord he'd be the greatest coach we ever had (sorry Al). I hope he does this and is, but I just don't see cause for optimism right now.

I love people like you when you're in a sportsbook in Vegas. 

[connie]

I say I didn't have any expectations this year but was seriously bummed after the loss to Nebraska Omaha.  I am excited that we have been competitive, but bummed that we have not been able to pull off a victory in some of those games, like GTown.  I like the improvement in Duane and Sandy, but remain frustrated by the complete lack of growth in Juan and Steve and JJJ.  I am glad Derrick has improved, but, I don't want to get any closer to that thought.  I think we have to focus on the development of the players we have and our coaching staff and try to forget the wins and losses.  Realistically I have to cling to the upside, while remaining pi$$ed at Bert for what he left us with. 

[willie warrior]

This is all on that sonuvabitch Bert!

+1 gazillion, as the phony hillbilly rides away into the sunset...no..scratch that...the crapstorm.

[dgies9156]

Once Derrick Wilson gets hot from three, anything can happen.

We are WAY WAY WAY past weed on this one!

I think Derrick has been wonderful in 2014-2015 and the improvement is phenomenol. I really like Derrick and thought a lot of people were too hard on him. But making him Steve Novak.... uh, yeah and I just grew my hair back and got down to my weight when I was at MU!

[dgies9156]

I love people like you when you're in a sportsbook in Vegas. 

That is why Vegas is not a place I frequent.

[rocket surgeon]

In my view, no season is a "lost cause" per se.  I'm sure it didn't meet some people's expectations, but is our staff learning and growing?  Are some players getting better, earning experience?  I would categorize it as a lost cause if there was regression across the board, but with such a young staff and many key young players, that isn't the case IMO.

Biggest danger I see is next year expectations will be higher than they should be.  Similar to Fischer expectations this year.  We will be very young next year.  It will be an up or down year, but with a lot of talent.  Probably good enough for a NCAA bid, but you never know.



Yes and how do they respond to wojo? do the players trust the system and respect the coach?  Have the players given up?  Does wojo know what he's doing?  Do incoming recruits feel confident that they made the right decision?  
My answers: good, yes, no, yes, I think so
All in all, I do not think this season is a lost cause at all, not by a long shot.  I think wojo has done a lot with not a lot.  I just hope we can keep wojo for more than 4-5 years.  Heaven forbid he coaches a game like McCarthy did in the Nfl championship game against Seattle. That would hurt but I don't think it's in his Dna

[Texas Western]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

I really love MU basketball and hope I am totally wrong on this assessment.

[jesmu84]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

I really love MU basketball and hope I am totally wrong on this assessment.

What? How? Other than maybe Dawson, you have no evidence of this.

Also, if you'll note by our performance in the last 5-7 minutes the team did just the opposite of quit against Seton Hall.

Are you a relative of a current, or recently former, MU player? Or a coach of a current, or recently former, MU player?

[MU1980]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

I really love MU basketball and hope I am totally wrong on this assessment.

Trust me, I really love MU basketball and you are definitely wrong on this assessment. 

[MUfan12]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

You have absolutely no evidence of this, outside of one flat performance.
 

I really love MU basketball.

That's rich.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

I really love MU basketball and hope I am totally wrong on this assessment.

By most of the kids do you mean one? Because I have seen every player on this team improve as the season went on other than JjJ and Juan...and I think Juan was regression to the mean.

Quit during the Seton Hall game? They had an awful 5 minute stretch. They then fought like hell and got it back to single digits. A few 50/50 balls go their way and they get a couple of more calls and they might have won the game. I don't see how any of that is indicative of a team quitting on their coach. I think it's indicative of a good coaching adjustment by Willard and Gibbs getting white hot from three.

Doesn't have the players best interest at heart? I'm honestly curious where you draw that conclusion from.

[Johnny B]

Who juan

[MU82]

My mantra for the season has been...Low expectations, high hopes.

This MU team has lived up to my expectations, and I still have hope they'll start playing well 40 minutes per game, instead of the 30 min we've all gotten used to.

This.

I expected very little from this year's team, and they've delivered. Actually, they have had a chance in more games than I had anticipated.

It's the first year of a new regime that was left with not much in the cupboard.

I'm still high on the future of MU hoops and would not draw a single conclusion, good or bad, from what happens this season.

[Shark]

As it stands now, we have 5 players returning. We have one bona fide blue chipper coming in, HE. Wally and the other freshman are complete unknowns. Based just on that, I do not see an NCAA bid next season. Now, I am sure more players will be added, but based on the current situation, tough year coming up again.

Disagree...next year the BEast is a complete unknown. Most teams are losing a ton and that alone gives us a pretty good chance to make a run in March. It's extremely early but the conference as a whole should weaken up a bit.

[Shark]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

I really love MU basketball and hope I am totally wrong on this assessment.

So the rumor that you have connections to JjJ valid? Because every post seems to reinforce that rumor.

[Class71]

Gosh I hate losing. I really do!

But I think this season is a lost cause. The light I saw at the end of the tunnel against Georgetown either disappeared or was freight train against Seton Hall. I missed the game but it appears we did little right. I had a lot of enthusiasm for us after Georgetown but then I see the SH game description and realize that we're regressing. We can't win on the road to save our lives (where's USF when we need them?). The usual JJJ problems recurred and somehow we let SH shoot the lights out from three-land.

My worst fear at this point is that Wojo needs to "blow it all up." We have three seniors -- Carlino, Derrick and Juan. We've also lost Burton to a change of scenery and its debatable whether Jujuan be back. The verdict is out on Steve Taylor Jr., though I do hope he can find a way to live up to the talent he had coming in. Luke, Duane and Sandy are our future, but it may take a couple of years to get back to the winning ways that most of us want to be at.

We seem to need too much, too fast. If Wojo can take what's coming back, mesh it with what's coming in and get productivity next year, my lord he'd be the greatest coach we ever had (sorry Al). I hope he does this and is, but I just don't see cause for optimism right now.

Al  had a game plan called scrabbled eggs for a team of zero talent and from that he began to win. Next he could tell new recruits, given his weak team, that they would play as freshman. Al   won with a 6'3" center who was so blind he was not allowed to shoot beyond 2 feet. He then got a 6'6" center and we thought we were in heaven until he played big Bob Lanear at St. Bonnie. He eventually won a national title.  Was Al MU's best coach, yes! Wojo could replace him in time but we need 10 years to find out and it will take Wojo more than two seasons for us to win at a high level against talented teams.

[rocket surgeon]

this is what happens when one tries to be hip to all the new and cool devices and use an ipad for this stuff.  besides the thing changing your words to chit that doesn't even resemble what you intend, my quote was lumped in to make it look like chico made the whole thing.  that could work out to be either brilliant(in the mind of some) or lame to others.  anyway, i just thought for full disclosure...i'm sure many of you picked up on that, but anyway...

[FartyEightHours]

[MU82]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game.

Duke's kids quit on Coach K in the ND game, too, so it must be a whole "Coach K Tree" thing.

I've got as much proof of the Dookies quitting as you do of the Warriors quitting.

It must be depressing to be so cynical and negative. I hope you seek professional help, and also hope you find a team to root for that can satisfy you.

[ATL MU Warrior]

My take on the season is that the Coach has not been able to reach through to most of the team. A couple of kids yes but the majority no. Most of them don't believe in him and we saw them quit on him in the Seton Hall game. Wojo has proven he can recruit and talk the talk for sure. He needs to demonstrate that he has the players best interest at heart.  In my book when a coach can achieve that he has a much better chance of having kids make shared sacrifice for the betterment of the whole.

I really love MU basketball and hope I am totally wrong on this assessment.

Your "take" is steaming hot pile of ****.

Nobody quit in the Seton Hall game.  A BEPOY candidate caught fire and, combined with about 5 minutes of very poor defense, that was the ball game.  Team played hard and had multiple opportunities to get back into it but several open shots rimmed out and the breaks didn't go our way (I cannot believe I haven't seen that incredible "intentional" foul mentioned on here). 

Just stop the nonsense.

[GGGG]

Ever since people have started to connect the dots with Texas Western and a possible connection to JJJ, he started dropping things like "I really love MU basketball."  Let me just say, I have my doubts completely.

I have seen coaches who lose a team.  I have seen it at Marquette.  That is not what is happening here.  As I said before the season began, you have talent without experience, and experience that isn't highly talented.  That is simply not a winning formula in college basketball unless the talent is of the "one-and-done" variety.

[brewcity77]

If Wojo has lost the team, they have a funny way of showing it. These guys are competing hard every night and vocal on the floor. Might he have lost a player or two, or one? Maybe so. But he certainly hasn't lost the team.

[MerrittsMustache]

Ever since people have started to connect the dots with Texas Western and a possible connection to JJJ, he started dropping things like "I really love MU basketball."  Let me just say, I have my doubts completely.

I have seen coaches who lose a team.  I have seen it at Marquette.  That is not what is happening here.  As I said before the season began, you have talent without experience, and experience that isn't highly talented.  That is simply not a winning formula in college basketball unless the talent is of the "one-and-done" variety.

That right there. That sums up this team.

[FartyEightHours]

Your "take" is steaming hot pile of ****

You rang?

[muwarrior69]

Duane, Sandy and Luke will lead this team next year. With Henry, Haanif and Heidt coming I believe we can have a decent season next year. Hope Nick resolves his personal issues and can contribute. We must be patient and let Wojo put his stamp on the program. Wojo comes from a winning tradition and I believe he will recruit the players we need to win. As for this season it has been painful to watch our guys play well and come up short. My expectations are we will improve,, but it could be a slow process over the next two seasons as some of the players may wish to transfer; I hope not.

[GGGG]

Duane, Sandy and Luke will lead this team next year. With Henry, Haanif and Heidt coming I believe we can have a decent season next year. Hope Nick resolves his personal issues and can contribute. We must be patient and let Wojo put his stamp on the program. Wojo comes from a winning tradition and I believe he will recruit the players we need to win. As for this season it has been painful to watch our guys play well and come up short. My expectations are we will improve,, but it could be a slow process over the next two seasons as some of the players may wish to transfer; I hope not.

Don't sleep on Wally.  I don't think he's going to be a super-star, but I think he can play better than he showed up in Minnesota.

[Brewtown Andy]

Don't sleep on Wally.  I don't think he's going to be a super-star, but I think he can play better than he showed up in Minnesota.

He was injured his freshman year, which put him behind as far as getting a chance to play, and then had a new coach who had no intention of playing him, which is why he left the team to focus on track & field. 

It's almost impossible for him to do anything but play better.

[WarhawkWarrior]

I think there is a lot of craziness here.  An under-sized, under-manned team in a tougher than anticipated league does bode well.  I haven't seen many teams play as hard as these guys.  As a fan, I look forward to being the underdog the rest of the way and cheer for the gratifying upsets.  Why despair, enjoy. Every game has had some exciting moments.  New coaches are also run over by the refs accounting for at least several losses.  It's easy to make an unfavorable call when you have no history with the coach.  That will gradually change.  Buzz went through the same situation.

[NersEllenson]

Ever since people have started to connect the dots with Texas Western and a possible connection to JJJ, he started dropping things like "I really love MU basketball."  Let me just say, I have my doubts completely.

I have seen coaches who lose a team.  I have seen it at Marquette.  That is not what is happening here.  As I said before the season began, you have talent without experience, and experience that isn't highly talented.  That is simply not a winning formula in college basketball unless the talent is of the "one-and-done" variety.

That's a nice quote and summation of the season.  However, Carlino is quite talented.  Derrick has evolved into one of the 27 best players in the conference.  We'll have an All Big East redshirt freshman in Duane.  Cohen may even make it.  JJJ?  Well, many subscribed to the belief last season that getting guys playing time and game experience didn't matter - so, perhaps we can put his stunted development on Buzz.  Luke?  He's about what can be expected out of a Top 60 sophomore big - has his moments, has skills, still putting the pieces together.  Burton would have been a big help to this team. 

[MUfan12]

Burton would have been a big help to this team. 

HE'S GONE. LET IT GO.

[tower912]

Only if he was willing to play defense and rebound. 

[dgies9156]

I think there is a lot of craziness here. 

1) No kidding! Anyone who thinks Wojo has lost this team probably never got passed underwater tiddly winks. He's got 'em in his hand. A lot of their lapses probably has to do with the pace of the game and the lack of depth on our team. People who think Wojo lost the team probably should go back to last year and watch the video of any game coached by the Hillbilly after January 1, 2014. Please note that freshman mistakes DO NOT constitute losing the team by the coach. The Hillbilly's problem was the freshmen mistakes were being made by juniors and seniors.

2) I was foolish enough to believe this team could compete for an NCAA spot. I admit I was wrong but as I have said in here before, I come from a Marquette basketball era where a "C" for the year was an invite to the NCAA tournament. We're not even close, which is why I believe this year is a lost cause. When I think of blowing the team up, I mean getting down to a salvagable core of returning players that can contribute to the goal of the NCAA tournament -- AND BEYOND! Three players currently active are our future -- Duane, Sandy and Luke. The verdict is still out on STjr. Unless there is significant change, the verdict on Jujuan is in and is not pretty.

3) I am not as excited as I was about next year six months ago. The biggest challenge in college basketball is getting five players on the floor to play together. About the only person I can see who has ever figured out how to do this with freshmen is John Calipari at Kentucky. Al was pretty demonstrative about this issue when he said, "the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores." Wojo has made massive improvements in on-floor team chemistry this year, but the challenge before him next year is just as formidible, albeit with more talent.

[brewcity77]

When I think of blowing the team up, I mean getting down to a salvagable core of returning players that can contribute to the goal of the NCAA tournament -- AND BEYOND! Three players currently active are our future -- Duane, Sandy and Luke. The verdict is still out on STjr. Unless there is significant change, the verdict on Jujuan is in and is not pretty.

I think we're pretty much there. Of our 8 players, 3 will definitely be gone. Duane, Luke, and Sandy look like building blocks that will be back. I have to think Steve stays, and while a big senior season seems unlikely, having a senior off the bench that can rebound for one more season is valuable. If he could improve and use the mid range jumper he could be very valuable. Regardless, his time is approaching the end.

That leaves Jajuan. I still believe he could be a contributor here, but if he is set on being an alpha dog he'll probably have to look elsewhere. I'm still in the camp hoping he can put out together here, but he had one foot out the door before Buzz left and it wouldn't surprise me if he departs. Either way, 5-8 new players next year ensure this will be Wojo's team sooner rather than later.

[jesmu84]

That's a nice quote and summation of the season.  However, Carlino is quite talented.  Derrick has evolved into one of the 27 best players in the conference.  We'll have an All Big East redshirt freshman in Duane.  Cohen may even make it.  JJJ?  Well, many subscribed to the belief last season that getting guys playing time and game experience didn't matter - so, perhaps we can put his stunted development on Buzz.  Luke?  He's about what can be expected out of a Top 60 sophomore big - has his moments, has skills, still putting the pieces together.  Burton would have been a big help to this team. 

Your points kinda lose water when you argue against something in one thread and then use it as evidence in another.

[bilsu]

So far I believe our worse losses are by 11 three times and 10 points twice. In the past with good teams we had at least one game where we really got drilled. I thought Seton Hall was going to be that game, but Juan's two late threes got us down to 10 after being down 24. I think we were down 21 to Ohio St. and got it down to 7 before losing by 11. What this means to me is this team fights even when things are going bad and I find that encouraging. I have witness two terrible 7 minute periods. Seton Hall the start of the second half and Michigan St the start of the second half. In those periods the other team was doing everything right and we were doing nothing right. However, I fear we are becoming DePaul and if there is not a significant turnaround next year the heat will really be turned up on Wojo.

[MU82]

What this means to me is this team fights even when things are going bad and I find that encouraging.

Come on! Don't you know the team has quit on Wojo?

[MUfan12]

However, I fear we are becoming DePaul and if there is not a significant turnaround next year the heat will really be turned up on Wojo.

FFS.

[brewcity77]

I can't remotely see us becoming DePaul. Purnell's teams up until this year always got the doors blown of them at least a handful of times. They looked either lost or lackadaisical. While we have had some bad stretches, the Seton Hall game is the first that wasn't a 1-2 possession game or overtime in league play. This year we aren't good enough to be a tourney team, but despite that, we could still be 6-2 in league play had we held on against DePaul, Xavier, St John's, and Georgetown.

We didn't, so optimism levels are low, and we are what our record says, but I certainly don't see us on the verge of becoming DePaul.

[willie warrior]

this is what happens when one tries to be hip to all the new and cool devices and use an ipad for this stuff.  besides the thing changing your words to chit that doesn't even resemble what you intend, my quote was lumped in to make it look like chico made the whole thing.  that could work out to be either brilliant(in the mind of some) or lame to others.  anyway, i just thought for full disclosure...i'm sure many of you picked up on that, but anyway...

Not to worry. That post is about the same as what we get out of Washington!

[brewcity77]

Someone the other day mentioned the Pomeroy Luck metric. Right now we are ranked 302nd in the country in luck. Another number that jumps out is free throw defense, where we are ranked 312th, "allowing" 72.5% of free throws to be made.

Georgetown sticks out in this regard. As a team, they shoot 70.5% at the line. In DC, they shot 82.1%. At the BC they were even better, shooting 87.5% from the line. St. John's shoots 69.8% at the line, against us they went for 76.9%. Lots of little things have gone against us.

Seton Hall shoots 34.9% from 3 on the season but 50% against us. Our own numbers...we are a 35.1% team from 3, yet go 13% at DePaul. You can even look back to Omaha, a 68.8% FT team that shot 86.7% against us and Michigan State, an atrocious 63.1% FT team that hit 83.3% against us.

Truly great teams will overcome bad luck, will overcome hot free throw shooting, will close down better on threes, and will find a way to win. This isn't a truly great team. We have one reliable scorer, a couple hard-working but limited senior starters, and a collection of kids that haven't found consistency yet. Add some bad luck to that and you end up with a .500 record.

Better days are ahead.

[rocky_warrior]

Good free throw shooting, or bad decisions on who to foul?

[brewcity77]

Good free throw shooting, or bad decisions on who to foul?

Mikael Hopkins went 11/12. He's a 55% FT shooter. That's near inexplicably bad luck.