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Author Topic: Pirates Thoughts  (Read 25250 times)

GooooMarquette

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2015, 09:39:52 PM »
That was in second half when MU was down 24

Everyone referring to first half at 14 minute mark, when he went for weak layup and yanked. He had played maybe 30 seconds.

But then he got a much longer chance, was allowed to shoot, and still didn't produce.

ecompt

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2015, 09:42:10 PM »
Play the twins. We had absolutely nothing to lose at this point.

brewcity77

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2015, 09:42:43 PM »
Sandy worked his way up to his current minutes in short stints. It started with improving his defense, then hitting open threes, then adding driving. Now he's a surprisingly solid all around player for a freshman. I really wish Jajuan would do the same, but there's just no way to justify giving him minutes that he isn't earning.

Let's play devil's advocate. If Jajuan is given minutes that aren't reflective of his play, how would that sit with guys like Sandy, Juan, and Steve that are producing more and working harder, even if they may not be as athletic.

Jajuan may well be the most physically gifted guy on the team, which only makes this more frustrating, because he's also pretty clearly been the worst guy. I would love to see him put it together because with his raw ability he could be another Jerel McNeal. But with what he's been doing on the court, he simply doesn't deserve more minutes, and if we were remotely deep, he'd pretty clearly deserve less  :(
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wadesworld

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2015, 09:44:29 PM »
I just love that people knock Juan for only being able to score against low-major teams yet they cry for JJJ to get more time because when he was getting long stints he was scoring.  Guess who those scoring games came against?  Low major competition.  He has 9 career double digit scoring games in a year and a half and one came against Arizona State.  The next best team it came against?  North Dakota maybe?  I guess the question becomes "which was the tallest of the midgets?"

It doesn't take much to see that JJJ doesn't rebound well, doesn't defend well, doesn't shoot well (and that's not changing unless his shot form changes, which at 20 years old with probably about 12 years of that form it's not changing anytime soon), doesn't distribute well, and has a loose handle.  Hopefully he can improve on a number of these areas, but until he does just playing a guy to play him makes no sense, whether the season is a lost cause or not.  There is no lottery in college basketball for recruits.  Winning every game even when you have no chance of making the tournament does no harm.  Put the 5 best out on the court and make every attempt to win every game.  You need to create a winning culture, and sitting your better players just because they're older in an unsuccessful year does the complete opposite of that.  "Hey guys, we haven't won enough this year so we're throwing the towel in."  That's a good competitive mindset and the type of attitude I want my team to have right there.

Play your best players.  It's clear to see that JJJ is not one of the best players on this team.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 09:48:11 PM by wadesworld »
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We R Final Four

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2015, 09:46:37 PM »
I agree - Buzz's success with high school kids was oddly low, given how many Top 100 kids he brought to MU.  But, the highest rated were Vander and JJJ...and they look an awful lot alike in so many ways at this stage within their careers - as 2nd semester sophomores.

Burton will kill it at Iowa State.  Perhaps JJJ will be joining him there too.  ;D  MU is starting a pipeline now of kids transferring out of MU and going on to good career at ISU.  Christopherson.  McKay.  Burton.

Maybe we should let Burton lay a game before we anoint him a star and declare that he has already had a good career at ISU.

NersEllenson

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2015, 09:57:34 PM »
I just love that people knock Juan for only being able to score against low-major teams yet they cry for JJJ to get more time because when he was getting long stints he was scoring.  Guess who those scoring games came against?  Low major competition.  He has 9 career double digit scoring games in a year and a half and one came against Arizona State.  The next best team it came against?  North Dakota maybe?  I guess the question becomes "which was the tallest of the midgets?"

It doesn't take much to see that JJJ doesn't rebound well, (opinion) doesn't defend well, doesn't shoot well (and that's not changing unless his shot form changes, which at 20 years old with probably about 12 years of that form it's not changing anytime soon), doesn't distribute well, and has a loose handle.  Hopefully he can improve on a number of these areas, but until he does just playing a guy to play him makes no sense, whether the season is a lost cause or not.  There is no lottery in college basketball for recruits.  Winning every game even when you have no chance of making the tournament does no harm.  Put the 5 best out on the court and make every attempt to win every game.  You need to create a winning culture, and sitting your better players just because they're older in an unsuccessful year does the complete opposite of that.  "Hey guys, we haven't won enough this year so we're throwing the towel in."  That's a good competitive mindset and the type of attitude I want my team to have right there.

Play your best players.  It's clear to see that JJJ is not one of the best players on this team.

You are clueless.  And yet what is incredibly funny is that you also have double standards.  You champion a guy like Derrick getting max minutes and being deserving, and crap on a sophomore who has so much more talent,potential and production (if scoring matters in basketball??) than Derrick it is comical.  May want to revisit Bama's column on Derrick's improvement this year..he also adds commentary on JJJ's defense - which is much better than you recognize/realize.

Stick to evaluating something you know more about - volleyball. 
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MerrittsMustache

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2015, 09:59:29 PM »
That was in second half when MU was down 24

Everyone referring to first half at 14 minute mark, when he went for weak layup and yanked. He had played maybe 30 seconds.

For the record, he checked in at 14:53 and checked out at 13:18 in the first half.

Far too often fans believe things like, "He missed a shot so the coach pulled him." As anyone who has played the game will tell you,  ;) that's almost never the case. Coaches don't pull players because they miss a shot. They pull players because they aren't doing what is asked of them. For all we know, JJJ may have been pulled because of a poor defensive rotation or for not running the right offensive set or for not boxing out or for not doing whatever else it was that Wojo and the staff had been drilling into the players' heads all week in preparation for this game. Players who have a "short leash" are in that position because typically they're not doing what is being asked of them.

zrjones13

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2015, 11:11:53 PM »
No fatigue? Can't be---we play 8 and fatigue sets in seems like every game.

If tonight's loss was based on fatigue why did we get killed the first 10 minutes of the second half, and then had a really good run after that?  Were always at a disadvantage playing 6, but I thought there was more prominent factors tonight.  I would like to see us switch up our defense more often.  SH had a lot of good looks especially when we extended our 1-3-1 to their side of the court.  I give SH a lot of credit for knocking down the open perimeter shots, since the last three games they haven't

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2015, 11:41:24 PM »

Jajuan may well be the most physically gifted guy on the team, which only makes this more frustrating, because he's also pretty clearly been the worst guy. I would love to see him put it together because with his raw ability he could be another Jerel McNeal.

I think my head is about to explode, seriously, Jerel McNeal? 

People, it's ok, let it go, he's no good, and he never will be at MU or anywhere on this level.  He's an ok mid-major player at best.  Life as an MU fan goes  on, we'll replace him with someone better. 

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2015, 12:03:46 AM »
You are clueless.  And yet what is incredibly funny is that you also have double standards.  You champion a guy like Derrick getting max minutes and being deserving, and crap on a sophomore who has so much more talent,potential and production (if scoring matters in basketball??) than Derrick it is comical.  May want to revisit Bama's column on Derrick's improvement this year..he also adds commentary on JJJ's defense - which is much better than you recognize/realize.

Stick to evaluating something you know more about - volleyball.  

According to Bama, Derrick is the second best player on the team...JjJ is the 7th.

I'm sorry but once again, you have bet on the wrong horse. JjJ is playing like the worst player on the team right now and his PT is getting limited as a result. I think you see and recognize that. If I understand correctly, you just want to start playing for the future.
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Tums Festival

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2015, 06:12:20 AM »
So JJJ is a defensive whiz now. It would be great to see JJJ play well, but the fact of the matter is he just isn't putting it together. As someone else said, if this was a deeper team he'd be playing even less or not at all.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:19:37 AM by WolverineWarrior85 »
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tower912

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2015, 06:22:14 AM »
   Any argument that Wojo is misusing JJJ gets blown up by Sandy Cohen.   Sandy is producing, Sandy is getting more minutes.   JJJ isn't.   
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g0lden3agle

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2015, 06:36:42 AM »
You are clueless.  And yet what is incredibly funny is that you also have double standards.  You champion a guy like Derrick getting max minutes and being deserving, and crap on a sophomore who has so much more talent,potential and production (if scoring matters in basketball??) than Derrick it is comical.  May want to revisit Bama's column on Derrick's improvement this year..he also adds commentary on JJJ's defense - which is much better than you recognize/realize.

Stick to evaluating something you know more about - volleyball. 

Way to open a post attacking the poster instead of the post.  Really helps build strong dialog on the board.

You clearly love to root for the "option B" on this team.  The results are bad therefore this alternative MUST be better.   While a guy like Sandy is showing what happens when you take advantage of the opportunities given, you continue to focus on JjJ's short leash.  The fact of the matter is JjJ's leash is as long as he's made it; he's had opportunities to earn a longer leash just as Sandy has yet hasn't proven himself to the coaching staff.  To just give the guy more run would undermine the message Wojo is trying to send: if you want more playing time, go out and earn it!

connie

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2015, 07:16:18 AM »
Love you Ners, but you are the guy that constantly roots for the backup quarterback.  You are the guy who wanted to bench Brett Farve because he turned the ball over too much and wanted to play Ty Detmer, because he was great at BYU.  I get it, you want the best for the team, and given where we find ourselves I don't have a problem giving JJJ a few more minutes--earned or not--only because I can see upping Sandy's minutes as well. Sandy has at least earned those minutes and deserves to be rewarded. Down by 20 I have no issue throwing undeserved minutes at a younger player.  (and yes, the Farve comparison is intentionally ridiculous--as is this entire continued discussion)
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We R Final Four

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2015, 07:42:29 AM »
If tonight's loss was based on fatigue why did we get killed the first 10 minutes of the second half, and then had a really good run after that?  Were always at a disadvantage playing 6, but I thought there was more prominent factors tonight.  I would like to see us switch up our defense more often.  SH had a lot of good looks especially when we extended our 1-3-1 to their side of the court.  I give SH a lot of credit for knocking down the open perimeter shots, since the last three games they haven't
Should have put in teal. Fatigue is a common excuse around here.

brewcity77

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2015, 08:03:35 AM »
I think my head is about to explode, seriously, Jerel McNeal? 

People, it's ok, let it go, he's no good, and he never will be at MU or anywhere on this level.  He's an ok mid-major player at best.  Life as an MU fan goes  on, we'll replace him with someone better.

I don't think Jajuan will ever be Jerel McNeal, I'm not at all saying that. I'm just saying the skillset is there. He has the length and quickness to be disruptive in the lane, the ability to drive, and is good at getting free on the perimeter (though that may be part of the defense knowing he's 7/44 from beyond the arc).

The difference is Jerel was more ready physically coming in, and more importantly he developed his game. Jajuan hasn't done either of those things, so while he might have the raw talent, I think a better comparison for him in terms of what he's actually done would be Jamail Jones. Makes the occasional great defensive play or spectacular offensive finish, but usually follows it up with a couple "WTF" moments that leave you scratching your head.

Please don't think I'm comparing Jajuan to Jerel. He's not in that league, not even close. Just saying the flashes of physical potential remind me a lot of things Jerel used to do.
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2015, 08:05:35 AM »
Oh, hey, another thread turned into an endless Derrick bashing thread?  Good, we needed one of those.

Orange may be the new black, but JJJ is the new Dawson.
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Groin_pull

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2015, 08:58:11 AM »
I don't think Jajuan will ever be Jerel McNeal, I'm not at all saying that. I'm just saying the skillset is there. He has the length and quickness to be disruptive in the lane, the ability to drive, and is good at getting free on the perimeter (though that may be part of the defense knowing he's 7/44 from beyond the arc).

The difference is Jerel was more ready physically coming in, and more importantly he developed his game. Jajuan hasn't done either of those things, so while he might have the raw talent, I think a better comparison for him in terms of what he's actually done would be Jamail Jones. Makes the occasional great defensive play or spectacular offensive finish, but usually follows it up with a couple "WTF" moments that leave you scratching your head.

Please don't think I'm comparing Jajuan to Jerel. He's not in that league, not even close. Just saying the flashes of physical potential remind me a lot of things Jerel used to do.

He may be a decent athlete, but he's not really a basketball player. Can't shoot (horrible form)...can't play D...can't take care of the ball. JJJ will continue to tease us with an occasional great move, but then he won't be heard from again for several games.

MUfan12

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2015, 09:01:43 AM »
No left hand, either. That layup he blew in the first half would have been an easy left handed layup and probably a foul. Instead he shied away from contact and turned it into a difficult floater. And getting beat as badly as he did in transition in the second half nailed his ass to the bench, and rightfully so.

I said it earlier in the season, I get a "Jamail Jones" vibe from him. Highly ranked out of HS, but never able to hack it at a high-major level.

GGGG

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2015, 09:09:54 AM »
  Any argument that Wojo is misusing JJJ gets blown up by Sandy Cohen.   Sandy is producing, Sandy is getting more minutes.   JJJ isn't.  


Sandy and Duane show that Wojo is willing to play players and allow them to improve on the court.  One of the concerns I have with JJJ is not only has there been no improvement, but this is the second coach in as many years who has given him a chance, only to see him falling further and further down the depth chart.  

So why are Sandy and Duane, who while still facing up and downs ARE improving, while JJJ is basically static?  I hate to say it, but he doesn't seem to be terribly coachable at this level. He may just need to be at an OVC school where he can dominate with his athleticism because he can't do that here.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2015, 09:09:57 AM »
Wojo needs to bench the seniors and give the underclassman at least 48 minutes per game each.

Yes, I'm suggesting that MU try to go into overtime to get more playing time for these guys.

Games minutes and longer leashes are the keys to the future. Hopefully Wojo figures that out.


GGGG

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2015, 09:10:34 AM »
I said it earlier in the season, I get a "Jamail Jones" vibe from him. Highly ranked out of HS, but never able to hack it at a high-major level.


That is a very solid observation, and I thought the same thing after the game.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2015, 09:13:35 AM »

Sandy and Duane show that Wojo is willing to play players and allow them to improve on the court.  One of the concerns I have with JJJ is not only has there been no improvement, but this is the second coach in as many years who has given him a chance, only to see him falling further and further down the depth chart.  

So why are Sandy and Duane, who while still facing up and downs ARE improving, while JJJ is basically static?  I hate to say it, but he doesn't seem to be terribly coachable at this level. He may just need to be at an OVC school where he can dominate with his athleticism because he can't do that here.

I don't disagree, as I am disappointed as well, but for now, I'd just chalk it up to being a late bloomer. He's still less than 1/2 way through his career. He could have a great summer of workouts and come back next season as a good player. As frustrated as I am, I don't think I can throw something like "uncoachable" out there (yet).

However, just to be clear, I don't ever expect him to be all-conf. like some people. But, that also doesn't mean he's a mid-major player either.

GGGG

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2015, 09:14:10 AM »
Oh, hey, another thread turned into an endless Derrick bashing thread?  Good, we needed one of those.

Orange may be the new black, but JJJ is the new Dawson.


If Derrick would have transferred after last year, and we brought in some graduate transfer who was putting up Derrick's numbers from this year, the collective Scoop would be saying "he's not great, but he's solid."  

That's what Derrick is.  10 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists and 2 turnovers?  I will take that anyday.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Pirates Thoughts
« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2015, 09:17:46 AM »



That's what Derrick is.  10 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists and 2 turnovers?  I will take that anyday.

An overtime or two from a triple double! More than a few heads would have exploded had he became the first MU player to do it since D Wade.