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Author Topic: Sacar Anim  (Read 160015 times)

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2015, 10:31:07 AM »
Never once in any way, shape, or form have I stated, or even implied that he's not a D1 player.   Never.  Go back and look at every post of mine and you won't find that. I've certainly stated he's not a player the caliber of D1 we're competing at.  Look back at e everything I wrote in that thread in particular that led to your response.

 Don't make up sh** because your comment was so off base.  I have said he's at best a mid major guy, a Horizon Leaguer, etc.

I really hate posters who lie

I don't lie. I'm referring to when you were making comments about him needing to go to CYO level ball to score any points. I don't think CYO is considered D1.

Look, I agree with you that JjJ was overranked and is struggling greatly. But you have been going off on this kid like...well...Ners on Derrick. For being the worst guy on a roster, JjJ is actually pretty solid. It's ok to have a sophomore on the roster who isn't helping now but might help in the future. Especially when you have 5 new players and 3 open scholarships for next season.

At this point, I don't see the kid ever becoming a starter for us. But role players are still important. Unless we have someone better who needs his scholarship, then I'd rather keep him around.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 10:41:40 AM by TAMU Eagle »
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HutchwasClutch

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2015, 11:16:11 AM »
I don't lie. I'm referring to when you were making comments about him needing to go to CYO level ball to score any points. I don't think CYO is considered D1.

Look, I agree with you that JjJ was overranked and is struggling greatly. But you have been going off on this kid like...well...Ners on Derrick. For being the worst guy on a roster, JjJ is actually pretty solid. It's ok to have a sophomore on the roster who isn't helping now but might help in the future. Especially when you have 5 new players and 3 open scholarships for next season.

At this point, I don't see the kid ever becoming a starter for us. But role players are still important. Unless we have someone better who needs his scholarship, then I'd rather keep him around.

Now you're just trying to save face. You and everyone else on this board knew that CYO comment wasn't intended to be serious. And it didn't lead to your dumb and hyperbolic reply. And I've stated several times alluding or flat out saying he's mid major material at best
Anyway you try to distort or twist something is at best disingenuous and at worst lying. Which one are you?




NersEllenson

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2015, 11:59:53 AM »
Now you're just trying to save face. You and everyone else on this board knew that CYO comment wasn't intended to be serious. And it didn't lead to your dumb and hyperbolic reply. And I've stated several times alluding or flat out saying he's mid major material at best
Anyway you try to distort or twist something is at best disingenuous and at worst lying. Which one are you?


What were your thoughts about Vander Blue midway through his sophomore year?

Quite frankly - I wasn't at ALL impressed with Vander midway through his sophomore year.  His improvement to what he achieved as a junior shocked me. 

As I watch JJJ play, i see a guy VERY similar to Vander at this stage in their respective careers.  Not sure if JJJ can make the leap Vander did - yet I just don't feel you throw in the towel on a guy who has some very good building blocks to be a very good player at this level.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2015, 12:09:54 PM »
What were your thoughts about Vander Blue midway through his sophomore year?

Quite frankly - I wasn't at ALL impressed with Vander midway through his sophomore year.  His improvement to what he achieved as a junior shocked me.  

As I watch JJJ play, i see a guy VERY similar to Vander at this stage in their respective careers.  Not sure if JJJ can make the leap Vander did - yet I just don't feel you throw in the towel on a guy who has some very good building blocks to be a very good player at this level.

I had pretty much the same assessment of Vander and reaction to his junior year coming out party.  

I see two major differences between he and JJJ
1) Vander always had a chip on his shoulder to prove himself that I expect came from the bitter fall out of his Badger decommitment.  I don't see any if that in JJJ.  Vander was certainly never benched an entire game for poor practices leading up to a game
2). Vander made way more plays defensively, even his first two years. His offensive game justneeded time to catch up, but his athletic gifts were obvious right away at MU
JJJ has had one wow moment, dunk at St Johns.  And that was in part poor defense and rotation.  

We can and will do better than JJJ in recruiting.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 12:12:12 PM by HutchwasClutch »

BM1090

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2015, 12:11:18 PM »
What were your thoughts about Vander Blue midway through his sophomore year?

Quite frankly - I wasn't at ALL impressed with Vander midway through his sophomore year.  His improvement to what he achieved as a junior shocked me. 

As I watch JJJ play, i see a guy VERY similar to Vander at this stage in their respective careers.  Not sure if JJJ can make the leap Vander did - yet I just don't feel you throw in the towel on a guy who has some very good building blocks to be a very good player at this level.

Offensively, JJJ and Vander are pretty similar. JJJ actually has better body control around the hoop than Vander did his sophomore year. Defensively though, it's not close. Regardless of what the stats say, Vander was a lockdown on ball defender all three years at MU. JJJ is just bad defensively.

WarriorInNYC

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2015, 12:11:24 PM »
Now you're just trying to save face. You and everyone else on this board knew that CYO comment wasn't intended to be serious. And it didn't lead to your dumb and hyperbolic reply. And I've stated several times alluding or flat out saying he's mid major material at best
Anyway you try to distort or twist something is at best disingenuous and at worst lying. Which one are you?





So then wouldn't that be hyperbolic?

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2015, 12:13:50 PM »
So then wouldn't that be hyperbolic?

Yes it was, but that's not at all what TAMU called out as such and what he's portraying now.  And it was written with the express intent of being humorous.
  Read the thread.

wadesworld

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2015, 12:15:19 PM »
I had pretty much the same assessment of Vander and reaction to his junior year coming out party.  

I see two major differences between he and JJJ
1) Vander always had a chip on his shoulder to prove himself that I expect came from the bitter fall out of his Badger decommitment.  I don't see any if that in JJJ.  Vander was certainly never benched an entire game for poor practices leading up to a game
2). Vander made way more plays defensively, even his first two years. His offensive game justneeded time to catch up, but his athletic gifts were obvious right away at MU
JJJ has had one wow moment, dunk at St Johns.  And that was in part poor defense and rotation.  

We can and will do better than JJJ in recruiting.

Vander didn't have a coach who worked like that.  His coach didn't demand that his players play sound fundamental basketball like Coach Wojo does.  It's a different coaching style.
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GGGG

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2015, 12:15:24 PM »
Offensively, JJJ and Vander are pretty similar. JJJ actually has better body control around the hoop than Vander did his sophomore year. Defensively though, it's not close. Regardless of what the stats say, Vander was a lockdown on ball defender all three years at MU. JJJ is just bad defensively.


+1.

As I said earlier, Vander's defensive performance as a sophomore at UW that year was incredible.  Guarded Jordan Taylor, Mike Bruesewitz and Ben Brust all in the same game, and got the better of all of them.  No flippin' way that JJJ could do that.  Not a chance.

GGGG

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2015, 12:16:54 PM »
Vander didn't have a coach who worked like that.  His coach didn't demand that his players play sound fundamental basketball like Coach Wojo does.  It's a different coaching style.


I completely disagree with that.  Buzz's teams certainly weren't fundamentally unsound. 

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2015, 12:20:32 PM »
Vander didn't have a coach who worked like that.  His coach didn't demand that his players play sound fundamental basketball like Coach Wojo does.  It's a different coaching style.

Agree, but quirky as Buzz was, I don't think he tolerated anything less than max effort. He took pride in the junkyard dog mentality his teams had. So if Vander would have had issues with effort and passion, there would have been some fall out over it.

NersEllenson

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 12:22:33 PM »
I had pretty much the same assessment of Vander and reaction to his junior year coming out party.  

I see two major differences between he and JJJ
1) Vander always had a chip on his shoulder to prove himself that I expect came from the bitter fall out of his Badger decommitment.  I don't see any if that in JJJ.  Vander was certainly never benched an entire game for poor practices leading up to a game
2). Vander made way more plays defensively, even his first two years. His offensive game justneeded time to catch up, but his athletic gifts were obvious right away at MU
JJJ has had one wow moment, dunk at St Johns.  And that was in part poor defense and rotation.  

We can and will do better than JJJ in recruiting.

Good points - particularly Number 1 - Vander definitely had more of a "dog" personality than does JJJ.  JJJ is more the happy go lucky type/Jamail Jones.

I'm not sold on the notion that JJJ isn't a good defender, nor very far behind what Vander was as a defender.  Would I give Vander the edge defensively?  Yes.  Though I don't feel the disparity is as great as some here feel.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

wadesworld

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 12:25:11 PM »

I completely disagree with that.  Buzz's teams certainly weren't fundamentally unsound. 

I probably should've said/meant fundamentally sound decision making.  Not that this team has that right now, but there are only so many options with an 8 man roster, of which only 2 are Wojo's recruits (and 1 was really Buzz's who stayed loyal to his commitment).  I have said elsewhere that I was at the WLC game with pretty good seats in the preseason and when Burton went up for that "showtime" dunk over a defender while we were leading by a ridiculous amount of points and clanked it off the back of the rim and almost up to the jumbotron, Wojo's reaction told me immediately that Burton was going to have to change his game  or he wouldn't be contributing to the team much.  Had Burton finished the dunk with Buzz on the sideline, Buzz may have danced around.  Had he finished the dunk with Wojo on the sideline, I still think Wojo would've yanked him.  Huge difference between Buzz and Wojo.
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NersEllenson

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 12:37:06 PM »
I probably should've said/meant fundamentally sound decision making.  Not that this team has that right now, but there are only so many options with an 8 man roster, of which only 2 are Wojo's recruits (and 1 was really Buzz's who stayed loyal to his commitment).  I have said elsewhere that I was at the WLC game with pretty good seats in the preseason and when Burton went up for that "showtime" dunk over a defender while we were leading by a ridiculous amount of points and clanked it off the back of the rim and almost up to the jumbotron, Wojo's reaction told me immediately that Burton was going to have to change his game  or he wouldn't be contributing to the team much.  Had Burton finished the dunk with Buzz on the sideline, Buzz may have danced around.  Had he finished the dunk with Wojo on the sideline, I still think Wojo would've yanked him.  Huge difference between Buzz and Wojo.

And this right here is why I'm not bullish on Wojo.  Hey, let's take the FUN out of the game for a kid (and fans) for wanting to go highlight reel, when he's got a history of making highlight reel plays.

Oddly, Wojo just yanked JJJ for not apparently going hard enough on the first half pull up 2 foot shot - Burton goes super hard, and it's not "fundamentally sound" enough for the square personality of Wojo...and gets yanked.

Ugh.  Perhaps we will soon look like most Wisconsin teams (other than the current one): Fundamentally sound, gritty, lunch pail mentality.  Question is, will Wojo be able to coach them up as Bo Ryan has?  Bo had a track record of 25+ years of MAJOR success as a head coach prior to coming to UW.

"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 12:41:14 PM »
I keep getting quick glances of this thread subject quickly and see: "Scar animal".

willie warrior

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2015, 12:53:13 PM »
I keep getting quick glances of this thread subject quickly and see: "Scar animal".
Hey man. Don't be making fun of names or you will be getting a PC dissertation on religion, slavery, and how evil this country is. See the thread on Maurice O'Field.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 01:04:43 PM »
Now you're just trying to save face. You and everyone else on this board knew that CYO comment wasn't intended to be serious. And it didn't lead to your dumb and hyperbolic reply. And I've stated several times alluding or flat out saying he's mid major material at best
Anyway you try to distort or twist something is at best disingenuous and at worst lying. Which one are you?





I'm neither. My comment was in reply your anti-JjJ campaign that you've been putting on for the past two weeks, not one specific comment. You started with he's overrated, then said he sucked, then said he was mid-major talent, forgive me if I took your comment about him playing CYO ball seriously. It was the trajectory you were on.

Rather than discarding a kid who isn't living up to expectations, I would prefer to keep him on the bench and help him develop. If he never pans out, oh well. He's still better than an empty scholarship. Stop thinking about him as a former top 40 player. Think about him as the second worst player on the roster. Every team has one. By that standard, he actually has pretty good production.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:11:10 PM by TAMU Eagle »
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MerrittsMustache

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2015, 01:07:46 PM »
I have said elsewhere that I was at the WLC game with pretty good seats in the preseason and when Burton went up for that "showtime" dunk over a defender while we were leading by a ridiculous amount of points and clanked it off the back of the rim and almost up to the jumbotron, Wojo's reaction told me immediately that Burton was going to have to change his game  or he wouldn't be contributing to the team much.  Had Burton finished the dunk with Buzz on the sideline, Buzz may have danced around.  Had he finished the dunk with Wojo on the sideline, I still think Wojo would've yanked him.  Huge difference between Buzz and Wojo.

I can't imagine any modern day coach basically being "anti-highlight reel play." It's likely that there was a separate issue, such as Wojo wanting Burton to pull it back and run the offense but was ignored or Burton playing lazy D and trying to cherry-pick or DB's effort on D compared to O. DB sat out less than 3 minutes after getting pulled so it was probably a teaching moment.

JJJ didn't get pulled after his dunk at StJ. Derrick didn't get pulled after his dunk against G'town. The idea that Wojo pulled Burton for trying to make a big play just doesn't seem plausible.

NersEllenson

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2015, 01:23:50 PM »
I can't imagine any modern day coach basically being "anti-highlight reel play." It's likely that there was a separate issue, such as Wojo wanting Burton to pull it back and run the offense but was ignored or Burton playing lazy D and trying to cherry-pick or DB's effort on D compared to O. DB sat out less than 3 minutes after getting pulled so it was probably a teaching moment.

JJJ didn't get pulled after his dunk at StJ. Derrick didn't get pulled after his dunk against G'town. The idea that Wojo pulled Burton for trying to make a big play just doesn't seem plausible.


But Wojo did pull him...

And how would Burton really know in a steal/fast break/transition situation that Wojo wants him to pull it out and run the offense..?
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

wadesworld

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 01:45:19 PM »
I can't imagine any modern day coach basically being "anti-highlight reel play." It's likely that there was a separate issue, such as Wojo wanting Burton to pull it back and run the offense but was ignored or Burton playing lazy D and trying to cherry-pick or DB's effort on D compared to O. DB sat out less than 3 minutes after getting pulled so it was probably a teaching moment.

JJJ didn't get pulled after his dunk at StJ. Derrick didn't get pulled after his dunk against G'town. The idea that Wojo pulled Burton for trying to make a big play just doesn't seem plausible.


It was just a stupid play and you could tell Wojo was not happy with the decision.  I don't think Wojo is against a highlight real play, but I think he is against trying to dunk the basketball over 2 guys when a simple layup would score just as many points.  The chances of making the dunk were slim to none, of trying to maneuver around the defenders and making a layup much higher.  Burton was trying to make a highlight play just to make a highlight, whereas Derrick would've been swatted if he attempted a layup and ended up making a highlight because it was his only chance at finishing the play.  I think Wojo expects his players to make the same play in any given situation regardless of the score of the basketball game.  If he feels as though Burton should have taken the layup in a 2 point game, he would expect him to do so in a 40 point game like WLC.  Big difference in my mind, and I think that's what Wojo saw as well.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:48:31 PM by wadesworld »
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Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2015, 02:44:53 PM »
Are we doing the thing where every thread turns into the same topic?

C'mon guys.

Let's not do that this season.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2015, 02:58:58 PM »
What were your thoughts about Vander Blue midway through his sophomore year?

Quite frankly - I wasn't at ALL impressed with Vander midway through his sophomore year.  His improvement to what he achieved as a junior shocked me. 

As I watch JJJ play, i see a guy VERY similar to Vander at this stage in their respective careers.  Not sure if JJJ can make the leap Vander did - yet I just don't feel you throw in the towel on a guy who has some very good building blocks to be a very good player at this level.

Ners, Ners, Ners. To say that you weren't ALL that impressed with Vander's game midway through sophomore year would be the understatement of the century. IIRC you hated his game.

That's not important, though. You think that Vander and JJJ are pretty much the same player at the same stage. Statistics and common sense say differently. I'm going to compare Vander's entire year to JJJ half year because I don't want to take the time to separate out his first 16 games of that year. Given the fact that the cupcake portion of our season is over and that JJJ's play is seriously trending down that's a big edge to JJJ but no matter. Let's see how they stack up:

Where JJJ has the edge:
1. Points per 40/minutes: 14.8 - 13.2.
2. Steals per 40/minutes:   2.2 - 1.8
3. FT%                         :  74.3 - 70.8

Where Vander has the edge:
1. Rebounds per 40/min.:  6.9  -  5.4
2. Assists per 40/minutes: 4.1  -  3.4
3. Turnovers per 40/min.:  3.4  -  4.8
4. Field Goal %               : 41.8 - 40.8
5. 3 Point %                   : 25.8 - 15.9
6. Assist/TO ratio            : 1.1/1- .7/1

Much, much more important than numbers, though, are the story that they tell about the player's basketball IQ and their willingness to play to their strengths. Vander was a bad 3 point shooter (25.8%). He knew it, his coach knew it, we all knew it. To his credit, he shot only 31 in 901 minutes, 1.37 per 40 minutes. JJJ is an epic bad 3 point shooter, much worse than Vander. Wojo knows it, we know it, but apparently JJJ doesn't. He's launched 44 in 379 minutes, 4.65 per 40 minutes. Incredible.

As a corollary, one thing Vander did pretty well (70.8%)and JJJ does even better (74.3%) is shoot free throws. Vander played to his strength, shooting 120 FTs in 901 minutes, 5.3/per 40. JJJ doesn't. He been to the line 35 times in 379 minutes, 3.7/per 40.

Vander was a smart player who knew his limitations and played accordingly. When you play smart, a coach is more likely to let you play through physical mistakes. JJJ roams the perimeter looking for shots he should never take when he should be driving the basketball to shoot lay ups and free throws. When you check out like that mentally chances for a long leash are nil. Until JJJ learns how to shoot he won't get many minutes being a chucker. And he shouldn't.



JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2015, 07:34:36 PM »
Ners, Ners, Ners. To say that you weren't ALL that impressed with Vander's game midway through sophomore year would be the understatement of the century. IIRC you hated his game.

That's not important, though. You think that Vander and JJJ are pretty much the same player at the same stage. Statistics and common sense say differently. I'm going to compare Vander's entire year to JJJ half year because I don't want to take the time to separate out his first 16 games of that year. Given the fact that the cupcake portion of our season is over and that JJJ's play is seriously trending down that's a big edge to JJJ but no matter. Let's see how they stack up:

Where JJJ has the edge:
1. Points per 40/minutes: 14.8 - 13.2.
2. Steals per 40/minutes:   2.2 - 1.8
3. FT%                         :  74.3 - 70.8

Where Vander has the edge:
1. Rebounds per 40/min.:  6.9  -  5.4
2. Assists per 40/minutes: 4.1  -  3.4
3. Turnovers per 40/min.:  3.4  -  4.8
4. Field Goal %               : 41.8 - 40.8
5. 3 Point %                   : 25.8 - 15.9
6. Assist/TO ratio            : 1.1/1- .7/1

Much, much more important than numbers, though, are the story that they tell about the player's basketball IQ and their willingness to play to their strengths. Vander was a bad 3 point shooter (25.8%). He knew it, his coach knew it, we all knew it. To his credit, he shot only 31 in 901 minutes, 1.37 per 40 minutes. JJJ is an epic bad 3 point shooter, much worse than Vander. Wojo knows it, we know it, but apparently JJJ doesn't. He's launched 44 in 379 minutes, 4.65 per 40 minutes. Incredible.

As a corollary, one thing Vander did pretty well (70.8%)and JJJ does even better (74.3%) is shoot free throws. Vander played to his strength, shooting 120 FTs in 901 minutes, 5.3/per 40. JJJ doesn't. He been to the line 35 times in 379 minutes, 3.7/per 40.

Vander was a smart player who knew his limitations and played accordingly. When you play smart, a coach is more likely to let you play through physical mistakes. JJJ roams the perimeter looking for shots he should never take when he should be driving the basketball to shoot lay ups and free throws. When you check out like that mentally chances for a long leash are nil. Until JJJ learns how to shoot he won't get many minutes being a chucker. And he shouldn't.




Nice post! Wrong thread.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2015, 07:41:36 PM »
Nice post! Wrong thread.

My bad. Are there multiple posts in multiple threads by Ners saying Vander=JJJ? Sorry.

MU82

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Re: Sacar Anim
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2015, 07:50:13 PM »
Vander played D as a sophomore, often great D.

JJJ can't spell D.

It's not even close.

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