How Difficult is it to Play in Europe?

[GGGG]

I know we have talked about this before, but outside of the more "cushy" gigs in Italy and Spain, how difficult is it for a random basketball player to play in Europe in some of the "medium sized" countries?  Is the competition fairly decent?  Is the money OK? 

I wonder at some point if players are doing it because they love it, or because they simply don't know what to do next.

[JakeBarnes]

Someone with Ners extensive high school experience would probably be in a top flight league.

[The Lens]

At a tip-off fish fry, Mike Deane was going over recent grad's pro exploits (Mac, Amal and Woody were all getting some NBA run) and he touched on Abel Joseph who was averaging double digits somewhere in Europe.  He concluded with:  "...So we now know how bad that league is".

[MerrittsMustache]

I know we have talked about this before, but outside of the more "cushy" gigs in Italy and Spain, how difficult is it for a random basketball player to play in Europe in some of the "medium sized" countries?  Is the competition fairly decent?  Is the money OK?  

I wonder at some point if players are doing it because they love it, or because they simply don't know what to do next.

The elite leagues in Italy, Germany, Greece and Spain are basically full of basketball's version of AAAA players. As in, good enough to play in the highest level of Europe, but not good enough for the NBA.

There are A LOT of American players who had undistinguished college careers who are playing successfully overseas in smaller European countries, so I'd guess that the level of the leagues is not particularly good. That said, the average European player makes well over twice what a D-League player makes. I remember reading once that the average Euro salary was around $75k. I'm guessing that an overwhelming majority of American players would not be making that in a "real job" in the states.

[tower912]

So, how much does a French B League player make and what is the level of competition?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

At a tip-off fish fry, Mike Deane was going over recent grad's pro exploits (Mac, Amal and Woody were all getting some NBA run) and he touched on Abel Joseph who was averaging double digits somewhere in Europe.  He concluded with:  "...So we now know how bad that league is".

Also see Dwight Burke currently averaging over 22 ppg

[ttheisen]

So, how much does a French B League player make and what is the level of competition?

Our resident expert TJThompson has a guess in this thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44969.msg663173#msg663173

[_____]

If you're familiar with the European soccer leagues it's the same set up with several levels (each country varies).  Teams can play themselves in and out of each level with usually the top two teams moving up and the bottom two teams moving down a level.  As you can imagine the top level teams pay the most and get the best talent.  Each league has a limit on how many American born players can play on a team (usually 2 or 3).  With about 50 countries in Europe with five different levels it seems any division I, II, or III player has a shot to play in Europe.

[GGGG]

If you're familiar with the European soccer leagues it's the same set up with several levels (each country varies).  Teams can play themselves in and out of each level with usually the top two teams moving up and the bottom two teams moving down a level.  As you can imagine the top level teams pay the most and get the best talent.  Each league has a limit on how many American born players can play on a team (usually 2 or 3).  With about 50 countries in Europe with five different levels it seems any division I, II, or III player has a shot to play in Europe.

Thank you for the info.  And you have the greatest screen name ever.

[ttheisen]

If you're familiar with the European soccer leagues it's the same set up with several levels (each country varies).  Teams can play themselves in and out of each level with usually the top two teams moving up and the bottom two teams moving down a level.  As you can imagine the top level teams pay the most and get the best talent.  Each league has a limit on how many American born players can play on a team (usually 2 or 3).  With about 50 countries in Europe with five different levels it seems any division I, II, or III player has a shot to play in Europe.

And, instead of being dominated by Americans, the soccer leagues are dominated by Brazilians!

[GooooMarquette]

And you have the greatest screen name ever.

Agreed.  But I'm struggling to pronounce it.  Thoughts?

[RJax55]

Sultan, I have a friend who for a time worked for an agent that did just this, represented players mostly playing in mid-to-lower European leagues. Including some MU guys, Crean era.

Here’s what I know: The leagues have rules about the number of Americans allowed on a team (2-3 max), but jobs are quite available. Especially for bigs. However, the agent is key in knowing the good opportunities available and working hard to get their client in. There’s a lot of instability within these teams and leagues, so things are always in play. Like all things, demand is higher for jobs in better countries and leagues because they offer more pay and perks.

For the lower leagues, it is a very tough business and very shady. Issues with pay, housing, contracts not being honored, etc. A ton of instability. Also at that time (I’m guessing it’s the same today), management would bring players in without consulting the coaches. Management would make all sorts of promises, but then the guys would get there and the coaches would want nothing to do with them. Now the player is stuck there, in a foreign country without any real options, waiting for his agent to get him out of his contract.

IMO, a lot of guys keep playing because they don’t know what else to do. A lot of people talk about how great it would be to play in Europe, getting paid to play, living in Europe, etc. Playing basketball over there is tough, it’s not the same as say the guy who gets a job transfer from States. No stability. Just look at the guys that do make a career of it. They bounce from league to league. Players can certainly have success and make a great living, but there’s a great deal of trade-off with that. I recall, a lot of the players that agent represented would only play a couple of years in Europe, then come back to the US.

[GGGG]

Excellent feedback RJax.  Much appreciated. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Paul Shirley's book "Can I Keep My Jersey?" is an easy, interesting read on what it's like to be a fringe NBA player who spends a lot of time playing in Europe.

[RJax55]

Excellent feedback RJax.  Much appreciated. 

No problem. Also, Chris Grimm used to keep a blog about his experiences playing in Europe, most notably the Swiss league. If still up, a great read to give you some additional insight on a guy playing in a lower Euro league.

[RJax55]

Paul Shirley's book "Can I Keep My Jersey?" is an easy, interesting read on what it's like to be a fringe NBA player who spends a lot of time playing in Europe.

Agree, its a good read.

[_____]

I wouldn't say it's a tough life...  I know two guys that played overseas and one was in the lower and the other was in the top level.  The guy in the lower level while he didn't make a ton of money, he was paid to play basketball and got the opportunity to live and travel through Europe.  If I was 23 years old I would rather play in a lower league in Europe than sitting in a cube.

[StillAWarrior]

Here’s what I know: The leagues have rules about the number of Americans allowed on a team (2-3 max), but jobs are quite available.

I had a client who had two sons playing in Europe.  One was from Florida State, the other from Dayton.  Neither was a superstar.  He said that one key element that helped them play in Europe is that both had dual citizenship in the United States and Germany.  Both had been born in the United States (as had their parents).  It was their grandparents who had emigrated.  He said it wasn't particularly difficult to do.  Because they are German citizens, they don't count toward their teams' quota of Americans.  

[GooooMarquette]

I wouldn't say it's a tough life...  I know two guys that played overseas and one was in the lower and the other was in the top level.  The guy in the lower level while he didn't make a ton of money, he was paid to play basketball and got the opportunity to live and travel through Europe.  If I was 23 years old I would rather play in a lower league in Europe than sitting in a cube.

I think it depends.  If you're on a stable team that pays the bills, and the coach and management are on the same page, it could be great.  But if you find yourself in the type of situations that RJax described, not so much.  At least I have a better understanding why many players opt for lower pay in the D-League.  Like most things in life, I guess YMMV.

[RJax55]

I think it depends.  If you're on a stable team that pays the bills, and the coach and management are on the same page, it could be great.  But if you find yourself in the type of situations that RJax described, not so much.  At least I have a better understanding why many players opt for lower pay in the D-League.  Like most things in life, I guess YMMV.

Exactly. For some, it is a great lifestyle, no doubt. But, there can be a ton of issues with these jobs.

Family situation also plays a big part in this. A guy that has a wife and kids, or just kids, is in a much more difficult spot. For a single guy, the instability may not be a big deal.

[StillAWarrior]

Exactly. For some, it is a great lifestyle, no doubt. But, there can be a ton of issues with these jobs.

Family situation also plays a big part in this. A guy that has a wife and kids, or just kids, is in a much more difficult spot. For a single guy, the instability may not be a big deal.

This was the reason my client's older son retired.  His kids were growing up, and he was moving from place to place on a regular basis.  He enjoyed the lifestyle for about 10 years, but eventually it didn't fit what he wanted for his family.

[TJThompson]

I wish to give my opinion as an European fan. It's very different according to several players. Firstly, at this time, play in Europe for an US player can be a good chance. Spain, Germany have competitive league, more than France may be but in France, you are sure to earn money at this end of the month, that's the main advantage comparing to other country with financial difficulties ( now Italy, Spain, Greece ). That's why, ex NBA er Daequan Cook plays in France.

Basketball played in Europe and US are totally different. Essentially, you use a half court in Europe with more defense. In USA, it's not the same thing . Also, i think you can have players who go well in Europe because their style fit to European Basket. I think a PF position being able to shoot at three .

Referees are very dissimilar. European rules are not the same enough. That's why, you have a time of adaptation to understand and play well in Europe

[real chili 83]

If I remember correctly, didn't Deam Marquardt make a tidy sum playing in Europe?

[muwarrior69]

Agreed.  But I'm struggling to pronounce it.  Thoughts?

Blank? Underscore?

[Warrior Code]

*clears throat* is how I read it.