Ban Yourself from Ners

[PGsHeroes32]

Again, you are spoiled.  You have no real idea what makes a bad manager.  In 2010, Gardy led a team with a staff anchored by Carl Pavano, Liriano, Scott Baker, Nick Blackburn and Kevin Slowey to 94 wins.  Maybe the offense was great you say?  Well, they didn't have a single guy hit more than 25 homers, they were playing guys like Danny Valencia and Orlando Hudson every day.  That is an indicator of what a great manager Gardenhire is, not the opposite.  Same thing for 2009. 

In 2006 they won 96 games.  Playing Jason Bartlett, Nick Punto, Lew Ford and old worn out Rondell White every day.  Here at least they had Johan, and Liriano in his prime.  But that team won a division that had 3 teams win 90 games.  That is a terrible example of Gardenhire being a bad manager. 

The 09 and 10 teams were very strong. 08 would be a better example of him taking a team with no expectations. But again, the Central had never been very strong. In 06 he got SWEPT by Oakland(in his last 5 playoff appearances he went 2-15, yes you read that right). In 06 he had the Cy Young, batting champ, MVP, Cuddyer and Hunter in two of their better years as, one of the best closers in baseball and then Brad Radtke. That was a fantastic baseball team.

09-10 were very strong as well. Granted its when Morneau started to be a wimp but he had MVP Mauer, Delmon in a career year, Cuddyer, Jim Thome

You use someone like Nick Punto as an example to prove your point when really it's mine. Gardy CHOSE to play guys like Punto and Clete Thomas. He would love his little "scrappers" and get in spats with better talent. Glen Perkins is the only Twins player in over a decade to survive the Gardy doghouse and thank god he did. Lohse didn't take a bat to his door for kicks and giggles.

Valencia and O Dog both had great years in 2010 LOL. Look at Danny V's numbers. After that? Not so much. But gardy ran him out of town when he is a great platoon option because he can mash lefties.

Gardy's issue is in game. He will yank the starter inexplicably and watch the bullpen blow it. But then he will have his "vet" like Kevin freaking Correia and leave him in for the 8th when already 4 times earlier he melted down in the 8th.

Players usually leave the Twins and get better, the opposite outside of Phil Hughes doesn't really happen.

Denard Span "I am so glad to be held down in Minnesota anymore"..He actually said something like that after Nats clinched division.

The twins are LOADED with young talent. And Ron's personality and style doesn't mesh with those guys. He had to go, we are better off for it. Most every Twins fan knows it.

[NickelDimer]

The spirit of this thread came from a good place, but most who claim to want to quit Ners are actually in a codependent relationship with him. They can't help but engage in the same useless drivel thread after thread. This thread is a perfect example of it. You literally have certain members appluading the idea of banning themselves of Ners, but then addressing him.  Laughable

[Shark]

Well for some good news...That arena is looking more and more likely.

[Loose Cannon]

  "This thread is making me Thirsty"

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You want to know what the height of arrogance and ego is?  Those of you who have never been anywhere near a basketball court - other than perhaps the bench in 6th grade - and then the bleachers at your high school - discrediting a guy like Western who has so many more skins on the wall and experience on and near a basketball court than do 99% of posters here.  

It is actually beyond arrogant.  I'd never have the audacity or ego to be critical of a guy who plays in the band, plays an instrument simply because I go to a lot of concerts and dabble with a guitar myself.  I'd never criticize a wrestler, baseball player, football player, soccer player - nor suggest I know anything much less MORE about any of those sports than GASP - even guys who only played to the varsity level in high school.

So for as much as some of you feel I need to get over myself - you guys REALLY need to get over yourselves, particularly if you are going to dis Texas Western.   Take your shots at me, continue to have fun, question my mental health, herd mentality, group think, etc. - but get over yourselves.

I have no idea who TW is. All he has ever said is that he is the parent of a division 1 athlete, or maybe two I can't remember. You seem to be hinting that he is more than that, which I hope he has given you permission to do because outing another scoopers identity against their wishes is kind of crappy. I think TW makes really good points, in fact, I usually agree with him. It's only recently that I've called him out for stating some things as fact that he couldn't possibly know. Which I would call anyone out about. As far as anyone here knows, TW is just another fan like us.

We take shots at you because 99% of people agree that a fan who played high school basketball ~30 years ago doesn't have a significantly greater understanding of college basketball than a fan who didn't. Most of us accept that high school basketball and college basketball are vastly differently animals. We also know both high school and college basketball have changed dramatically in the past ~30 years. So playing experience from that era is increasingly less relevant. Still relevant, but becoming less relevant.

You've used the band example before. I would trust the opinion of someone who has attended dozens of concerts over the past decade over someone who played an instrument in high school ~30 years ago. If the person who played an instrument back in high school also attended dozens of concerts in the past decade, I would trust their opinions equally.

We don't need to get over ourselves because we don't hold what we say as fact. We know we are just spouting mostly uninformed opinions. We don't think our opinions are better than anybody else's. Can you say the same about yourself?

It's not your (or TW's) opinions that people take issue with. It is the fact the you very openly and publicly proclaim them as better than everyone else's.

[StillAWarrior]

Those of us who have been around this board (and its predecessor) for a while recall another poster who was indisputably a more accomplished basketball player than the rest of us (admittedly, not a high bar in my case).  He had some strong opinions too, which he presented as fact.  Coincidentally, I recall that one of his more controversial opinions related to a point guard, and led to an early Scoop meme (before we really knew what memes were):  "dime-a-dozen point guard."

The fact that the dime-a-dozen point guard is back on Marquette's bench and the fact that this thread has reached five pages reminds me that there is nothing new under the sun.

[buckchuckler]

The 09 and 10 teams were very strong. 08 would be a better example of him taking a team with no expectations. But again, the Central had never been very strong. In 06 he got SWEPT by Oakland(in his last 5 playoff appearances he went 2-15, yes you read that right). In 06 he had the Cy Young, batting champ, MVP, Cuddyer and Hunter in two of their better years as, one of the best closers in baseball and then Brad Radtke. That was a fantastic baseball team.

09-10 were very strong as well. Granted its when Morneau started to be a wimp but he had MVP Mauer, Delmon in a career year, Cuddyer, Jim Thome

You use someone like Nick Punto as an example to prove your point when really it's mine. Gardy CHOSE to play guys like Punto and Clete Thomas. He would love his little "scrappers" and get in spats with better talent. Glen Perkins is the only Twins player in over a decade to survive the Gardy doghouse and thank god he did. Lohse didn't take a bat to his door for kicks and giggles.

Valencia and O Dog both had great years in 2010 LOL. Look at Danny V's numbers. After that? Not so much. But gardy ran him out of town when he is a great platoon option because he can mash lefties.

Gardy's issue is in game. He will yank the starter inexplicably and watch the bullpen blow it. But then he will have his "vet" like Kevin freaking Correia and leave him in for the 8th when already 4 times earlier he melted down in the 8th.

Players usually leave the Twins and get better, the opposite outside of Phil Hughes doesn't really happen.

Denard Span "I am so glad to be held down in Minnesota anymore"..He actually said something like that after Nats clinched division.

The twins are LOADED with young talent. And Ron's personality and style doesn't mesh with those guys. He had to go, we are better off for it. Most every Twins fan knows it.

Can't argue with the playoff record.  Definitely struggles there, but again, maybe that is the talent showing more than anything.  Though that 06 A's team was pretty good as well.

You really think Hudson had a great year in 10?  By great do you mean that his completely mediocre offense didn't hurt the team?  

Who should have been playing instead of Punto?  It isn't like he had Ian Kinsler sitting on the bench. 

I also think it is hard to blame the coach for poorly managing a pitching staff when the entire bullpen outside the closer is terrible.  Heck, that entire staff was terrible.  

The point I was contesting was that you think Gardenhire is a bad manager.  He took a small market team with low payroll and won his division 6 times in 13 years as manager.  That is pretty freaking good.  

The biggest problem with the Twins is paying a third of their payroll to a bum kneed, slap hitting first baseman.

[brewcity77]

Those of us who have been around this board (and its predecessor) for a while recall another poster who was indisputably a more accomplished basketball player than the rest of us (admittedly, not a high bar in my case).  He had some strong opinions too, which he presented as fact.  Coincidentally, I recall that one of his more controversial opinions related to a point guard, and led to an early Scoop meme (before we really knew what memes were):  "dime-a-dozen point guard."

The fact that the dime-a-dozen point guard is back on Marquette's bench and the fact that this thread has reached five pages reminds me that there is nothing new under the sun.

Pretty sure he is still kicking around Dodds' site. Can't say for certain, because I'm not allowed there anymore.

[tower912]

Murf is indeed still going strong and wrong. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Can't argue with the playoff record.  Definitely struggles there, but again, maybe that is the talent showing more than anything.  Though that 06 A's team was pretty good as well.

You really think Hudson had a great year in 10?  By great do you mean that his completely mediocre offense didn't hurt the team?  

Who should have been playing instead of Punto?  It isn't like he had Ian Kinsler sitting on the bench. 

I also think it is hard to blame the coach for poorly managing a pitching staff when the entire bullpen outside the closer is terrible.  Heck, that entire staff was terrible.  

The point I was contesting was that you think Gardenhire is a bad manager.  He took a small market team with low payroll and won his division 6 times in 13 years as manager.  That is pretty freaking good.  

The biggest problem with the Twins is paying a third of their payroll to a bum kneed, slap hitting first baseman.

Hudson relative to what we had continually gotten out of middle infielders yeah it was big time. Him and Hardy(who actually was inconsistent with the stick that year too) were HUGE. It went to show just how little improve that team needed up the middle. Just something consistent and veteran. Hardy was another Gardy didn't like. No denying how well he went on to play.

The Twins have actually almost always had very solid to good bullpens. Even the last few years when they have been terrible teams the bullpen isn't some Detroit debacle. Last year it declined late with injuries but hasn't been an issue.

Have starters been world beaters? No. But on all those playoff teams they were decent guys. Blackburn and Baker at those times were serviceable Rick Porcello types.

The issue is we would just get bent over by the Yankees under Ron he didn't know how make the righ tmoves. The tigers almost always win at least 1 series(own the yanks), Royals went right to the world series. Indians beat the Yanks. White Sox won a WS. You don't need fantastic pitching just to win a few games but he couldn't even do that.

One of the craziest examples of Ron I will always remember. In the prime of that Yanks dominance stretch it was a regular season game at the Bronx. Duensing on the hill facing Texieria(much less dangerous from right side). Sure, 2nd and 3rd...walking him sets up DP. Issue is its A Roid on deck and Guerrier warming. A Rod was 7-10 lifetime with like 3 homers or something off Guerrier. If the TV crew can tell me that, Ron porbably has that stat handy as well. First pitch? Grand slam...now were losing.

He just lacked the strategy part to baseball you know the anti Joe Maddon. Through 162 games with a solid roster you can let talent prevail but come October you have to push the right buttons, he can't.

As for your Mauer/Payroll point...don't worry I think Terry Ryan/Ownership are bigger issues. This franchise has so much money but instead of spending on Lesters/Pujols of the worlds(just examples)they throw 48 mil at Ricky freaking Nolasco.

[NersEllenson]

I have no idea who TW is. All he has ever said is that he is the parent of a division 1 athlete, or maybe two I can't remember. You seem to be hinting that he is more than that, which I hope he has given you permission to do because outing another scoopers identity against their wishes is kind of crappy. I think TW makes really good points, in fact, I usually agree with him. It's only recently that I've called him out for stating some things as fact that he couldn't possibly know. Which I would call anyone out about. As far as anyone here knows, TW is just another fan like us.

We take shots at you because 99% of people agree that a fan who played high school basketball ~30 years ago doesn't have a significantly greater understanding of college basketball than a fan who didn't. Most of us accept that high school basketball and college basketball are vastly differently animals. We also know both high school and college basketball have changed dramatically in the past ~30 years. So playing experience from that era is increasingly less relevant. Still relevant, but becoming less relevant.

You've used the band example before. I would trust the opinion of someone who has attended dozens of concerts over the past decade over someone who played an instrument in high school ~30 years ago. If the person who played an instrument back in high school also attended dozens of concerts in the past decade, I would trust their opinions equally.

We don't need to get over ourselves because we don't hold what we say as fact. We know we are just spouting mostly uninformed opinions. We don't think our opinions are better than anybody else's. Can you say the same about yourself?

It's not your (or TW's) opinions that people take issue with. It is the fact the you very openly and publicly proclaim them as better than everyone else's.

TAMU - You usually make sound arguments.  You fail significantly in this one.  I laugh at the notion that you try to suggest you and the others who disagree with me frequently don't state their positions as "fact."  And you don't feel your opinions are better than anybody else's?

Let's hope ESPN soon gets rid of Bilas as he played ball far too long ago to have a relevant take.  Same with Bob Knight.  Rafferty.  Jay Williams.  Clark Kellogg.  Greg Anthony.  Charles Barkley.  Kenny Smith.  Len Elmore. Mike Kelley. 

Hopefully soon we get more color commentators and basketball analysts doing Marquette games who were in band, wrestling, baseball, soccer, rugby, football, chess club, or any other extracurricular, because let's face it:  playing the game doesn't really matter.

But to your point, I won't back down from my assertions regarding Derrick as being THE problem with last year's team.  Nor will I back down from saying he shouldn't be playing 34 minutes per game this season, even though he's improved.  Nor will I back down from saying the team didn't't stand a chance to be a winner last season, or this with him playing 30+ per game.  The record won't and don't lie.  Derrick will have been the PG of record for an MU team that missed the NIT, (when the pre-season favorite to win the conference title) and now this year's team which will be an NIT participant.  We are talking Dukiet era performance here.  On teams with WAY more talent than Bob Dukiet ever had/assembled.

[NavinRJohnson]

Those of us who have been around this board (and its predecessor) for a while recall another poster who was indisputably a more accomplished basketball player than the rest of us (admittedly, not a high bar in my case).  He had some strong opinions too, which he presented as fact.  Coincidentally, I recall that one of his more controversial opinions related to a point guard, and led to an early Scoop meme (before we really knew what memes were):  "dime-a-dozen point guard."

The fact that the dime-a-dozen point guard is back on Marquette's bench and the fact that this thread has reached five pages reminds me that there is nothing new under the sun.

One significant and important difference between now and then...Murf espoused very strong opinions on a wide variety of basketball related topics. Who can forget the "Wide Post" among others? I had more than my share of disagreements with the great one, but what we get today is the same exact tired arguments seemingly injected into every single thread.

[MUFC9295]

Chrissakes Dave.  Sorry I was busy away from college for a few days.  I'll be happy to let Wades know how the Jumpman was really your silhouette from legendary game at the Rec Center circa 94. 

[buckchuckler]

Hudson relative to what we had continually gotten out of middle infielders yeah it was big time. Him and Hardy(who actually was inconsistent with the stick that year too) were HUGE. It went to show just how little improve that team needed up the middle. Just something consistent and veteran. Hardy was another Gardy didn't like. No denying how well he went on to play.

The Twins have actually almost always had very solid to good bullpens. Even the last few years when they have been terrible teams the bullpen isn't some Detroit debacle. Last year it declined late with injuries but hasn't been an issue.

Have starters been world beaters? No. But on all those playoff teams they were decent guys. Blackburn and Baker at those times were serviceable Rick Porcello types.

The issue is we would just get bent over by the Yankees under Ron he didn't know how make the righ tmoves. The tigers almost always win at least 1 series(own the yanks), Royals went right to the world series. Indians beat the Yanks. White Sox won a WS. You don't need fantastic pitching just to win a few games but he couldn't even do that.

One of the craziest examples of Ron I will always remember. In the prime of that Yanks dominance stretch it was a regular season game at the Bronx. Duensing on the hill facing Texieria(much less dangerous from right side). Sure, 2nd and 3rd...walking him sets up DP. Issue is its A Roid on deck and Guerrier warming. A Rod was 7-10 lifetime with like 3 homers or something off Guerrier. If the TV crew can tell me that, Ron porbably has that stat handy as well. First pitch? Grand slam...now were losing.

He just lacked the strategy part to baseball you know the anti Joe Maddon. Through 162 games with a solid roster you can let talent prevail but come October you have to push the right buttons, he can't.

As for your Mauer/Payroll point...don't worry I think Terry Ryan/Ownership are bigger issues. This franchise has so much money but instead of spending on Lesters/Pujols of the worlds(just examples)they throw 48 mil at Ricky freaking Nolasco.

Maybe you are right and it was time for a change.  Maybe Gardenhire's voice doesn't work the way it once did. A couple things though. 

1) Joe Maddon has a 13-17 record in the playoffs.  So, I'm not sure he is the standard you think he is. 
2) The Twins ranked 15 out of 15 teams in ERA last season.  Hardly a serviceable staff.  In 2013 they were 14 out of 15.  In 2012 they were 13 of 14.  2011 they were 13 of 14.  If you don't have the pitchers, you aren't going to win, no matter who is managing.   
3)  Hardy certainly went on to play well.  But for whatever reason his year in Minnesota was the one of the worst of his career.  Maybe it was Gardy, maybe it was the park, maybe it was injuries, who knows.  But he didn't hit well.  I stand by my assertion that Orlando Hudson was at best a mediocre hitter, even for a second baseman. 
4) The situation you played out in a regular season game, maybe it was a learning experience for the team, because in the 2010 playoffs, Arod went 3-11 with no XBH and 1 RBI.  Guerrier threw 2 innings allowing 1 hit. 
5) I would also contend that Terry Ryan is much more the reason the Twins have been good, than they have been bad.  There is a big difference between 48 million and 144 million.  The Twins will not likely be signing anyone to a contract like that any time soon.  Nor will the White Sox, nor the Royals, nor the Indians. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Maybe you are right and it was time for a change.  Maybe Gardenhire's voice doesn't work the way it once did. A couple things though. 

1) Joe Maddon has a 13-17 record in the playoffs.  So, I'm not sure he is the standard you think he is. 
2) The Twins ranked 15 out of 15 teams in ERA last season.  Hardly a serviceable staff.  In 2013 they were 14 out of 15.  In 2012 they were 13 of 14.  2011 they were 13 of 14.  If you don't have the pitchers, you aren't going to win, no matter who is managing.   
3)  Hardy certainly went on to play well.  But for whatever reason his year in Minnesota was the one of the worst of his career.  Maybe it was Gardy, maybe it was the park, maybe it was injuries, who knows.  But he didn't hit well.  I stand by my assertion that Orlando Hudson was at best a mediocre hitter, even for a second baseman. 
4) The situation you played out in a regular season game, maybe it was a learning experience for the team, because in the 2010 playoffs, Arod went 3-11 with no XBH and 1 RBI.  Guerrier threw 2 innings allowing 1 hit. 
5) I would also contend that Terry Ryan is much more the reason the Twins have been good, than they have been bad.  There is a big difference between 48 million and 144 million.  The Twins will not likely be signing anyone to a contract like that any time soon.  Nor will the White Sox, nor the Royals, nor the Indians. 

1. Joe Maddon has made a WS though. And he does it with literally no payroll. The guy is the anti Gardy in that players come to Maddon and do far better than before...like a James Loney.

2. I wasn't saying our pitching staffs the last couple years, the Twins have been awful for 4 years now. I meant the playoff pitching staffs were all serviceable. Much like the O's of this year.

3. Gardy didn't like Hardy and the issue was giving up on him and O Dog(he was  going to be gone) and losing our middle infield continuity again. It also made the Santana and Gomez trades now null.

4. It was just an example of Gardy not really having clue. He's too paint by numbers. Lefty pitching? He must face the lefty. Right? Must be righty. There is no depth to his thinking and actually knowing the match ups

5. Again, this is an outsiders view. You won't find a Twins fan who likes Ryan. He is literally reffered to as Curly Ryan. This guy is clueless as they come. His only good trade ever? Liriano, Nathan and Bonser for Pierzynski. I'll let you guess which one of those 3 he thought was the "prize". The Pohlads are loaded. They don't like to spend, this team should have a bigger pay roll. But when they do...Ryan goes out and gets JUNK. And Gardy didn't win or make any of these guys better. In 2011 the payroll was like 110 mil. Scared them out of spending. Now they are spending again but doing it on Mike Pelfrey(6 mil a year??) 48 mil for Nolasco? Now even though he deserved a raise now they just threw the house at Hughes(he better not regress). See, throwing 20 mil a year at Lester may be a ton, but it has value. 12 mil a year for Nolasco is still a lot...with no value.

It's a concept management doesn't get. Hopefully Molitor has his way, tells Ryan to get the kids up here and lets them play. Because talent is everywhere if Terry just gets the right pitching.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU - You usually make sound arguments.  You fail significantly in this one.  I laugh at the notion that you try to suggest you and the others who disagree with me frequently don't state their positions as "fact."  And you don't feel your opinions are better than anybody else's?

Let's hope ESPN soon gets rid of Bilas as he played ball far too long ago to have a relevant take.  Same with Bob Knight.  Rafferty.  Jay Williams.  Clark Kellogg.  Greg Anthony.  Charles Barkley.  Kenny Smith.  Len Elmore. Mike Kelley.  

Hopefully soon we get more color commentators and basketball analysts doing Marquette games who were in band, wrestling, baseball, soccer, rugby, football, chess club, or any other extracurricular, because let's face it:  playing the game doesn't really matter.

Nice try. I truly don't believe my opinions are better than anyone else. And for the most part, I don't see anyone else on here proclaiming that because they played basketball ~30 years ago their opinions are better. That is reserved to you.

You grossly missed the point of my statement. ALL you have is playing experience from high school and sitting on your butt watching college basketball with the rest of us. I think you said you did a little coaching for kids at some point to. Bilas, Raferty, Knight and all the others you mentioned have been coaches and analysts for decades. They not only have playing experience at the college and professional level, they also continued to gain experience in other ways. They have the credentials to be considered expert opinions. Someone who played high school ball? Not so much.

But to your point, I won't back down from my assertions regarding Derrick as being THE problem with last year's team. OPINION Nor will I back down from saying he shouldn't be playing 34 minutes per game this season, OPINION even though he's improved FACT.  Nor will I back down from saying the team didn't't stand a chance to be a winner last season OPINION, or this with him playing 30+ per game OPINION.  The record won't and don't lie OPINION.  Derrick will have been the PG of record for an MU team that missed the NIT, (when the pre-season favorite to win the conference title) FACT and now this year's team which will be an NIT participant GUESS.  We are talking Dukiet era performance here FACT.  On teams with WAY more talent than Bob Dukiet ever had/assembled OPINION.

Just helping you out. You can keep all your opinions. That is great, that is what this board is for. But if you keep stating them as fact when they are not, and if you keep going off about your opinion being more relevant than anyone else, then people are going to react negatively towards you. You'd probably have more success if you changed tactics.

[g0lden3agle]

TAMU - You usually make sound arguments.  You fail significantly in this one.  I laugh at the notion that you try to suggest you and the others who disagree with me frequently don't state their positions as "fact."  And you don't feel your opinions are better than anybody else's?

Let's hope ESPN soon gets rid of Bilas as he played ball far too long ago to have a relevant take.  Same with Bob Knight.  Rafferty.  Jay Williams.  Clark Kellogg.  Greg Anthony.  Charles Barkley.  Kenny Smith.  Len Elmore. Mike Kelley. 

Hopefully soon we get more color commentators and basketball analysts doing Marquette games who were in band, wrestling, baseball, soccer, rugby, football, chess club, or any other extracurricular, because let's face it:  playing the game doesn't really matter.

But to your point, I won't back down from my assertions regarding Derrick as being THE problem with last year's team.  Nor will I back down from saying he shouldn't be playing 34 minutes per game this season, even though he's improved.  Nor will I back down from saying the team didn't't stand a chance to be a winner last season, or this with him playing 30+ per game.  The record won't and don't lie.  Derrick will have been the PG of record for an MU team that missed the NIT, (when the pre-season favorite to win the conference title) and now this year's team which will be an NIT participant.  We are talking Dukiet era performance here.  On teams with WAY more talent than Bob Dukiet ever had/assembled.

You get upset that you feel people are stating things as fact that you don't agree with and start throwing around ad hominem attacks.  How is that any better than stating things as fact in the first place?

[GooooMarquette]

Chrissakes Dave.  Sorry I was busy away from college for a few days.  I'll be happy to let Wades know how the Jumpman was really your silhouette from legendary game at the Rec Center circa 94. 

 

[rocky_warrior]

Anyone else find the interleaved baseball conversation in this thread highly amusing?

[MerrittsMustache]

Anyone else find the interleaved baseball conversation in this thread highly amusing?

Without a doubt the best part of the thread!

[MU82]

Nice try. I truly don't believe my opinions are better than anyone else. And for the most part, I don't see anyone else on here proclaiming that because they played basketball ~30 years ago their opinions are better. That is reserved to you.

You grossly missed the point of my statement. ALL you have is playing experience from high school and sitting on your butt watching college basketball with the rest of us. I think you said you did a little coaching for kids at some point to. Bilas, Raferty, Knight and all the others you mentioned have been coaches and analysts for decades. They not only have playing experience at the college and professional level, they also continued to gain experience in other ways. They have the credentials to be considered expert opinions. Someone who played high school ball? Not so much.

Just helping you out. You can keep all your opinions. That is great, that is what this board is for. But if you keep stating them as fact when they are not, and if you keep going off about your opinion being more relevant than anyone else, then people are going to react negatively towards you. You'd probably have more success if you changed tactics.

You beat me to this, TAMU.

Comparing an observer who has only high school playing experience to analysts who were high-major college players, coaches and pros? That's as dopey as comparing Derrick Wilson to Chris Paul.

Yep, I said it.

If Jay Bilas = Chris Paul -- and as an announcer, he does -- then Ners = Derrick Wilson!

Ners is the Derrick Wilson of basketball debate!!!

Except Derrick is having a much better year so far.

[Galway Eagle]

You beat me to this, TAMU.

Comparing an observer who has only high school playing experience to analysts who were high-major college players, coaches and pros? That's as dopey as comparing Derrick Wilson to Chris Paul.

Yep, I said it.

If Jay Bilas = Chris Paul -- and as an announcer, he does -- then Ners = Derrick Wilson!

Ners is the Derrick Wilson of basketball debate!!!

Except Derrick is having a much better year so far.

Not to mention unbelievably arrogant.  He backs up his opinion because most of us didn't play above 8th grade so he played four years higher level than us (not necessarily at a simeon or montverde academy either where you're playing a really high level). What he doesn't grasp is that it's the same amount of time difference these guys, at least, played at a higher level.  He acts like their peer because he played but he's to them what he thinks we are to him.  

I get his pride for playing HS ball but here's the facts

26,407 public high schools and 10,963 private high schools in the united states.  Let's imagine that a third of the greater than 37,000 high schools sponsor a varsity basketball program.  Now all schools aren't created equal so let's say 10-15 on each team so let's say roughly a 12 average that's 147,996 high school players.  Now that really doesn't make him that special having played.  Whereas say D1 colleges there's 351 schools with roughly 12 players on each team that's 4,212 players.  That's a HUGE difference in terms of exposure and time to learn about the game between Ners and someone like Wojo or Bilas (not taking into account all the time coaching). 

[rocky_warrior]

Ners is the Derrick Wilson of basketball debate!!!

Except Derrick is having a much better year so far.

This is a good point.  I mean, what kind of idiot moderators does it take to let one guy get so many posts while adding so little quality.  Even worse his MUScoopAdd ranking is even worse than last season.  

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Not to mention unbelievably arrogant.  He backs up his opinion because most of us didn't play above 8th grade

Pfftttt, I  played JV.  I didn't realize most only played to 8th grade.  I no longer consider the opinions of you 8th grade only players relevant.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is a good point.  I mean, what kind of idiot moderators does it take to let one guy get so many posts while adding so little quality.  Even worse his MUScoopAdd ranking is even worse than last season.  

I LOL'ed