Silver Lining

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You make a lot of nice points in your posts.  Question for you:  What do you think matters more to Deonte than anything in the world at this time in his life?

My GUESS would be that his two loves in life were his Mom and basketball.  So, he loses his Mom at a young age, and while all of that is going on, our Head Coach is yanking him in and out of basketball games, essentially giving his position to Derrick Wilson (a wing defender on our 2-3 zone), and giving him 16 minutes per game, all while the team is losing games to UNO, beating no one of consequence and Deonte Burton is shooting 47.6% from the Field, 77% from the FT Line and 40% from the 3 point line - all team highs at the time of his transfer.

The term TW used - "throwing Deonte under the bus" was referring to the above.  

Lastly, how nice would a 3rd scorer have looked on this team right now?  All this team needs is a good 3rd scoring threat at this time and it is a big time winner.  And, with what is left on the roster NOW, the best candidate to add this production is JJJ or Cohen.  The current formula is nice and all, and we are competitive, but like last year, again, we'll have a bunch of near wins and our head coach won't have deviated at all to attempt to try to see if a different combination of players could yield more wins.

Furthermore, Wojo has said both Derrick and Juan are elite defenders - why weren't we able to be effective in Wojo's preferred man to man defense then?

I think it's fun/fine to speculate, but let's not act like this is factual, or even likely.

WE. DON'T. KNOW.

Repeating the same theories over and over again doesn't make them more true. We have to be okay admitting that we don't really know.

[NersEllenson]

I think it's fun/fine to speculate, but let's not act like this is factual, or even likely.

WE. DON'T. KNOW.

Repeating the same theories over and over again doesn't make them more true. We have to be okay admitting that we don't really know.

I said it was a GUESS.  However TW knows a lot more about the dynamics inside the team than you or many others here. 

MUfan12 posts some good insight at times:

Texas is talking out of his ass when it comes to Burton. They were very accommodating and supportive of Deonte after his mom passed. The reason he left had more to do with basketball, and what he wanted his role to be. And that was at odds with what Wojo needed from him. Change of scenery was needed.

Again, please rebut what I posted:  That the 2 loves in Deonte's life were his Mom and basketball - he loses one tragically, and then the other - he is getting yanked in and out of games, while the team is losing, yet he's shooting the highest percentages from the Field, FT and 3 point line at time of tranfer..and coming off an All Big East Freshman nod earned while only playing 12 minutes per game in conference play.  Think Deonte had big expectations coming into the year?

[brewcity77]

You make a lot of nice points in your posts.  Question for you:  What do you think matters more to Deonte than anything in the world at this time in his life?

My GUESS would be that his two loves in life were his Mom and basketball.  So, he loses his Mom at a young age, and while all of that is going on, our Head Coach is yanking him in and out of basketball games, essentially giving his position to Derrick Wilson (a wing defender on our 2-3 zone), and giving him 16 minutes per game, all while the team is losing games to UNO, beating no one of consequence and Deonte Burton is shooting 47.6% from the Field, 77% from the FT Line and 40% from the 3 point line - all team highs at the time of his transfer.

The term TW used - "throwing Deonte under the bus" was referring to the above.  

Lastly, how nice would a 3rd scorer have looked on this team right now?  All this team needs is a good 3rd scoring threat at this time and it is a big time winner.  And, with what is left on the roster NOW, the best candidate to add this production is JJJ or Cohen.  The current formula is nice and all, and we are competitive, but like last year, again, we'll have a bunch of near wins and our head coach won't have deviated at all to attempt to try to see if a different combination of players could yield more wins.

Furthermore, Wojo has said both Derrick and Juan are elite defenders - why weren't we able to be effective in Wojo's preferred man to man defense then?

I assume you feel that Burton's explanation that he needed to get away from Milwaukee was just a load of crap, then?

He was playing. Had at least double-digit minutes in every game. Every game we played was tightly contested and he wasn't always in there down the stretch, but he was getting a chance. Despite that, and with two guys at the wing position ahead of him graduating (three if you count Derrick) the opportunity was there and was going to expand.

Burton wanted to get away, and the voices in his ear were telling him to get away. The kid had a lot going on and everyone was excited to see what he could do with Fischer, yet he left right before Fischer became eligible. I'm not sure how much more Wojo could have done.

But of course, as always...it's all about Derrick 

Oh...and to the last point...two guys that can defend does not a man-to-man defense make. We needed Carlino out there but he was getting abused in man by quicker guards. Jajuan gambled too much for steals and in man defense that was exploited more than it is in a zone. Duane (3.3 fpg) and Burton (3.0 fpg) were both foul machines in man defense. Down low, Steve didn't have the physicality to stop quality bigs on his own (Amir Williams scored at will in the paint). We needed to go zone because the rest of the team isn't as good on defense as Juan and Derrick.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I said it was a GUESS.  However TW knows a lot more about the dynamics inside the team than you or many others here. 

MUfan12 posts some good insight at times:
Again, please rebut what I posted:  That the 2 loves in Deonte's life were his Mom and basketball - he loses one tragically, and then the other - he is getting yanked in and out of games, while the team is losing, yet he's shooting the highest percentages from the Field, FT and 3 point line at time of tranfer..and coming off an All Big East Freshman nod earned while only playing 12 minutes per game in conference play.  Think Deonte had big expectations coming into the year?

I have the best inside contacts on this board. TW is wrong.

We good?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You make a lot of nice points in your posts.  Question for you:  What do you think matters more to Deonte than anything in the world at this time in his life?

My GUESS would be that his two loves in life were his Mom and basketball.  So, he loses his Mom at a young age, and while all of that is going on, our Head Coach is yanking him in and out of basketball games, essentially giving his position to Derrick Wilson (a wing defender on our 2-3 zone), and giving him 16 minutes per game, all while the team is losing games to UNO, beating no one of consequence and Deonte Burton is shooting 47.6% from the Field, 77% from the FT Line and 40% from the 3 point line - all team highs at the time of his transfer.

The term TW used - "throwing Deonte under the bus" was referring to the above.  

Thank you for acknowledging that this is a guess instead of stating it as fact.

For the upteenth time, Derrick and Burton might play the same role in the defense, but they weren't playing remotely the same position on offense. Burton was being used exclusively as a 4, Derrick as a 1. Those two aren't interchrangable. Juan and Sandy were the two "taking" minutes from Burton. More to the point, Burton wasn't producing. He was outplaying Dawson, Steve, and Sandy but no one else. Steve got more minutes by necessity but otherwise he was getting about the right amount of minutes for what he was putting out. I wish that weren't the case but it was true.

Furthermore, Wojo has said both Derrick and Juan are elite defenders - why weren't we able to be effective in Wojo's preferred man to man defense then?

Because they can't be everywhere on the court at once? Derrick and Juan were doing just fine. Steve was the biggest liability. JjJ, Burton, Carlino, Duane, and Sandy were all struggling as well. Wojo smartly adjusted based on the needs of the entire roster, not just his two best defenders.

[connie]

OK, I hate losing as much as anyone in here. And as bad as the refs were, they did not cause us to lose. There were more than a few times when we could have made up one or even two points (i.e., look at the difference in free throw percentage through regulation).

That said, I think there is a silver lining in yesterday. We actually played hard and worked as a team. We weren't quite there, but you could see Wojo all over this team. The evidence:

1) On at least two occasions, Derrick Wilson drove fearlessly and ferociously to the basket. I may be old, but I never recalled a Derrick Thunder Dunk like I saw yesterday.
2) Duane Wilson looked like the real thing. Now I know why the Hillbilly was so forlorn after Duane was gone last year. He stepped up and other than a couple missed free throws, he could do no wrong.
3) Luke Fischer, when he was in the game, played defense. Get him some additional support and we're going to be dynamite.
4) We went from one of the nation's worst defenses to one of the best defending teams in about six weeks, in season. That alone should get Wojo some votes for coach of the year.

Look, we don't have the horses -- yet. Our team is much improved in attitude and hustle over what we saw a year ago. We need more players and more strength underneath. But the beginning of the plan is there and the nightmare that started about this time a year ago is starting to come to the end.

Our team still has work to do, but the guys are hanging in there and showing real improvement. 

I agree.  

Before we head back down the rabbit hole of the crazy or obsessed, I thought I would try to get us back on track.  Now, let the "Derrick causes global warming/WOJO hates kids whose parents die" chorus resume.

[MUfan12]

Again, please rebut what I posted:  That the 2 loves in Deonte's life were his Mom and basketball - he loses one tragically, and then the other - he is getting yanked in and out of games, while the team is losing, yet he's shooting the highest percentages from the Field, FT and 3 point line at time of tranfer..and coming off an All Big East Freshman nod earned while only playing 12 minutes per game in conference play.  Think Deonte had big expectations coming into the year?

The three point number is very misleading, given it was only 10 attempts in 8 games.

The number that explains why he wasn't playing is 11 rebounds in those 8 games. Wojo wasn't expecting him to be a lockdown defender. The whole team stunk defensively early on. What was expected was for him to put in the work on the glass. Instead, he stayed out on the perimeter on offense, and tried to leak out instead of hitting the defensive boards. That's why he didn't play.

Not sure what you want me to rebut, but yeah, I'm sure he was frustrated. And I'm positive a lot of that was due to what I posted, that he viewed his role differently than Wojo did. Same happened with ODB and Crean. Buzz and McKay. These things happen, and we move on. At least some of us do, anyway.

[reinko]

I have the best inside contacts on this board. TW is wrong.

We good?

But are you the dad of Division 1 athlete?

If not, be gone.

[NersEllenson]

I have the best inside contacts on this board. TW is wrong.

We good?

LOL - I see what you did there.  You can rebut the argument if you'd like.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I said it was a GUESS.  However TW knows a lot more about the dynamics inside the team than you or many others here. 

The only way I can think of this being true is if TW is the parent of one of the players. He has said he is the parent of a division 1 athlete. If this is the case, I would caution you about taking a parent's word as fact. I don't know TW or his child, and I am not a parent myself, but I have worked with college students and their parents long enough to know that parents often only know what their kid wants them to know, and parents will fight to the death to defend their children.

If TW is not one of the parents our players, but he has such great insight to the goings ons of the the locker room, then he must be a staff member...which I really hope isn't true. I don't post  my opinions on the TAMU fan sites or social media because if I did, I would be fired or at very least lose all credibility with my coworkers and the students I work with. I would be embarrassed if TW was a member of the basketball team staff.

If he is not a parent or a staff member, than he is just another guy who knows a few people who pass on some information to him every once in awhile. Which makes him just like the rest of us here.

[NersEllenson]

Thank you for acknowledging that this is a guess instead of stating it as fact.

For the upteenth time, Derrick and Burton might play the same role in the defense, but they weren't playing remotely the same position on offense. Burton was being used exclusively as a 4, Derrick as a 1. Those two aren't interchrangable. Juan and Sandy were the two "taking" minutes from Burton. More to the point, Burton wasn't producing. He was outplaying Dawson, Steve, and Sandy but no one else. Steve got more minutes by necessity but otherwise he was getting about the right amount of minutes for what he was putting out. I wish that weren't the case but it was true.

Because they can't be everywhere on the court at once? Derrick and Juan were doing just fine. Steve was the biggest liability. JjJ, Burton, Carlino, Duane, and Sandy were all struggling as well. Wojo smartly adjusted based on the needs of the entire roster, not just his two best defenders.

TAMU - What you fail to grasp seemingly is that you can play many different combinations of players.  Derrick is not required at the "1."  Carlino and Duane can both handle bringing up the ball as needed.  Furthermore, once we are in the halfcourt set, generally the guards are interchangeable.  

Deonte was one of the 5 best players on the team coming into this year.  Period.  He should get starters minutes.

Lastly, Derrick was getting blown by numerous times in man to man, not quite to the extent Carlino did, but to act as if Derrick wasn't part of the problem in man to man is once again excusing him of any culpability/responsibility for being part of the problem.  Was he better than Duane and Carlino on man? Yes.  But Elite?  Not even close.

[NersEllenson]

The three point number is very misleading, given it was only 10 attempts in 8 games.

The number that explains why he wasn't playing is 11 rebounds in those 8 games. Wojo wasn't expecting him to be a lockdown defender. The whole team stunk defensively early on. What was expected was for him to put in the work on the glass. Instead, he stayed out on the perimeter on offense, and tried to leak out instead of hitting the defensive boards. That's why he didn't play.

Not sure what you want me to rebut, but yeah, I'm sure he was frustrated. And I'm positive a lot of that was due to what I posted, that he viewed his role differently than Wojo did. Same happened with ODB and Crean. Buzz and McKay. These things happen, and we move on. At least some of us do, anyway.

Wasn't asking you to rebut anything - your point supported mine - the Burton transferred because he and Wojo didn't see eye-to-eye and that he didn't like his role (rightfully so).  Had he been happy in the one area of his life that he loved (basketball) it would have helped* offset the hurt/loss and disappointment of losing his Mom.

(Not your point 12) As for Deonte's inner-circle/handlers getting in his ear - big deal?  They were right.  Just as it appears McKay's were right.  If your head coach can't see your talent, coach it properly, and play it ahead of less talented guys - then you move on.

[mu03eng]

TAMU - What you fail to grasp seemingly is that you can play many different combinations of players.  Derrick is not required at the "1."  Carlino and Duane can both handle bringing up the ball as needed.  Furthermore, once we are in the halfcourt set, generally the guards are interchangeable.  

Deonte was one of the 5 best players on the team coming into this year.  Period.  He should get starters minutes.

Lastly, Derrick was getting blown by numerous times in man to man, not quite to the extent Carlino did, but to act as if Derrick wasn't part of the problem in man to man is once again excusing him of any culpability/responsibility for being part of the problem.  Was he better than Duane and Carlino on man? Yes.  But Elite?  Not even close.

Deonte, Cohen, JjJ, and Taylor were all travesties at man to man defense at the time.  Luke Fischer wasn't around yet to protect the rim.  JjJ and Taylor are still travesties on man to man defense.  JjJ is good in zone defense because his gambling doesn't hurt and his knack for the passing lanes can be protected and/or rewarded.

Based on Deonte's performance prior to Luke being eligible, Deonte didn't deserve starters minutes, he deserved the minutes he got.  Just like right now, JjJ has done nothing to show me he has earned more minutes than he is getting.  And I'm willing to bet it's people like you, with thoughts like yours that were chirping in Deonte's ear about him deserving starters minutes that facilitated this transfer.  

There is no question in my mind that both Deonte and the team would be in a better place if he had stayed.  With Luke and Juan working the boards Deonte wouldn't have had to be a rebounder nearly as much.  But because people thought he "deserved" something he has left.  C'est la vie.

My god, look at Sandy, the kid puts in the work, has shown he knows how to play within his role, helps the team be successful and his minutes are expanding.  If that doesn't show Wojo's flexibility and coaching ability I don't know what does.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

 So, he loses his Mom at a young age, and while all of that is going on, our Head Coach is yanking him in and out of basketball games, essentially giving his position to Derrick

EVERY. FRIGGIN. THREAD.

C'mon, Mods

[GGGG]

The only way I can think of this being true is if TW is the parent of one of the players. He has said he is the parent of a division 1 athlete. If this is the case, I would caution you about taking a parent's word as fact. I don't know TW or his child, and I am not a parent myself, but I have worked with college students and their parents long enough to know that parents often only know what their kid wants them to know, and parents will fight to the death to defend their children.

It would be an absolute disaster if TW was in any way connected with any of MU's players.  IF that were the case, and he is undermining the coach in a public forum like this, that will not end well for the player in question.

TW joined in February 2013 and started posting on Christmas Day of the same year.  People can go back and read his posts to get a sense of who he is.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

LOL - I see what you did there.  You can rebut the argument if you'd like.

It's not an argument.

It's just speculation and a narrative without much merit.

Occam's Razor. Literally HUNDREDS of D1 players transfer every season. I don't think it takes advanced psychology to try to break down each situation. Sometimes, it's a just poor fit, or a kid is looking for a change. That's it.

We don't need to twist ourselves into knots trying to create a narrative about a coach that we don't really know yet. We don't have 20 years of track record with Wojo.

I wish/hope that every MU player comes and plays for 4 seasons, but I also know that MU isn't the perfect fit for everybody. Some people will transfer. *GASP*.

[mu03eng]

I'd like an honest, relatively short response to the following question from the seemingly anti-Wojo crowd(can't believe that's a thing already):

What specifically has Wojo done that causes you to doubt him and what would you do differently?

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'd like an honest, relatively short response to the following question from the seemingly anti-Wojo crowd(can't believe that's a thing already):

What specifically has Wojo done that causes you to doubt him and what would you do differently?

he plays Derrick.

[BM1090]

You make a lot of nice points in your posts.  Question for you:  What do you think matters more to Deonte than anything in the world at this time in his life?

My GUESS would be that his two loves in life were his Mom and basketball.  So, he loses his Mom at a young age, and while all of that is going on, our Head Coach is yanking him in and out of basketball games, essentially giving his position to Derrick Wilson (a wing defender on our 2-3 zone), and giving him 16 minutes per game, all while the team is losing games to UNO, beating no one of consequence and Deonte Burton is shooting 47.6% from the Field, 77% from the FT Line and 40% from the 3 point line - all team highs at the time of his transfer.

The term TW used - "throwing Deonte under the bus" was referring to the above.  

Lastly, how nice would a 3rd scorer have looked on this team right now?  All this team needs is a good 3rd scoring threat at this time and it is a big time winner.  And, with what is left on the roster NOW, the best candidate to add this production is JJJ or Cohen.  The current formula is nice and all, and we are competitive, but like last year, again, we'll have a bunch of near wins and our head coach won't have deviated at all to attempt to try to see if a different combination of players could yield more wins.

Furthermore, Wojo has said both Derrick and Juan are elite defenders - why weren't we able to be effective in Wojo's preferred man to man defense then?

Because at the start of the year, Duane, JaJuan, Steve, Deonte, Carlino, and Cohen were all well below average defenders. Two very good defenders and three very bad defenders does not make a good defense.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU - What you fail to grasp seemingly is that you can play many different combinations of players.  Derrick is not required at the "1."  Carlino and Duane can both handle bringing up the ball as needed.  Furthermore, once we are in the halfcourt set, generally the guards are interchangeable.  

Deonte was one of the 5 best players on the team coming into this year.  Period.  He should get starters minutes.

Lastly, Derrick was getting blown by numerous times in man to man, not quite to the extent Carlino did, but to act as if Derrick wasn't part of the problem in man to man is once again excusing him of any culpability/responsibility for being part of the problem.  Was he better than Duane and Carlino on man? Yes.  But Elite?  Not even close.

What you fail to grasp is that there is a depth chart. You need players at all five positions. Deonte was one of the four available players to play the two post positions. He was used exclusively at the four for this reason. If he stays for one more game, there are 5 players available for two positions and he can slide over to the three. Then you could make an argument for playing him over Derrick. It still wouldn't be a good one because Derrick is the best option at the 1. If anything, Deonte would have probably eaten up all of JjJ's minutes.

And no, Deonte was not one of the five best players on the floor. Juan, Carlino, Derrick, Duane, and JjJ all played better than him the first 8 games of the season. Deonte was the 6th best player on the team. He got the 7th most minutes because the 7th best player, Steve Taylor, was the only player big enough to play the five.

You could make an argument that he had the highest ceiling of any player on the team. I would agree with that statement. But you play who will win you games right now. Deonte was getting the minutes he earned.

[keefe]

Derrick causes global warming

I thought that was Al Gore. You know, the 'Chakra Release' guy

[NersEllenson]

I'd like an honest, relatively short response to the following question from the seemingly anti-Wojo crowd(can't believe that's a thing already):

What specifically has Wojo done that causes you to doubt him and what would you do differently?

Simple:

He just benched Duane Wilson for a critical 4 minute stretch in the game against Georgetown from the 8 minute mark to 3:30 mark to get Derrick Wilson back in the game.  Not to mention Duane was absolutely in the zone, and in the flow.  AWFUL.

If that isn't pause for concern, I'm not even going to get into losing Burton due to playing him 16 minutes a game in choppy segments.  Nor Dawson.  And now potentially JJJ.

We have quite a few open scholarships for next season, and I certainly am not hearing us being in on any very talented guys other than perhaps Ricky Council.

The team's current record.

[MU B2002]

If that isn't pause for concern, I'm not even going to get into losing Burton due to playing him 16 minutes a game in choppy segments.  Nor Dawson.  And now potentially JJJ.

You should just put all these thoughts in your signature.  Then you wouldn't need to repeat it in every thread.

[mu03eng]

Simple:

He just benched Duane Wilson for a critical 4 minute stretch in the game against Georgetown from the 8 minute mark to 3:30 mark to get Derrick Wilson back in the game.  Not to mention Duane was absolutely in the zone, and in the flow.  AWFUL.

If that isn't pause for concern, I'm not even going to get into losing Burton due to playing him 16 minutes a game in choppy segments.  Nor Dawson.  And now potentially JJJ.

We have quite a few open scholarships for next season, and I certainly am not hearing us being in on any very talented guys other than perhaps Ricky Council.

The team's current record.

Please be factually accurate when making an argument, it'll go a lot further.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=post;quote=691309;topic=46239.25;num_replies=47;sesc=9b1ccaa6ff7f99dbf8b1a1dd17c03c33

Duane was in to start the 2nd half, subbed out at 16:17, came back in at 12:58. 
Derrick came out at 9:37 leaving Duane, Matt, Sandy, Luke and Juan on the court at 61-64(Gtown)
Derrick came in for Duane at 7:42 with the score 66-66
Duane came in at 4:14 for Sandy with the score 71-74
Duane finished the game.

I agree with you that the 3 min and 28 seconds of game time was too long, and likely a mistake.  I think Duane needed a sub there but he was probably on the bench too long.  By the same token it was not some sort of disastrous decision that lost us the game.

To chalk that up as some sort of proof of Wojo's inability to coach seems insane.  You deal in absolutes, as a high school player you should know basketball isn't about absolutes.

I'll bite on JjJ as well.  What in the last 6 games has shown that JjJ get more minutes?  Look at Duane, when he was in his slump he was getting 20-24 minutes, now that he's coming out of it he's getting 30-33 minutes a game.  Look at Sandy, he went from DNP against DePaul to a season high 27 against St Johns and 21 against Georgetown.  That's coaching, that's letting the player playing well dictate playing time.  You would give JjJ 30 minutes just cause, how is that smart coaching?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

It would be an absolute disaster if TW was in any way connected with any of MU's players.  IF that were the case, and he is undermining the coach in a public forum like this, that will not end well for the player in question.

TW joined in February 2013 and started posting on Christmas Day of the same year.  People can go back and read his posts to get a sense of who he is.  

Had not done that with TW until just now, and yeah, it really couldn't be any clearer.