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Author Topic: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW  (Read 44038 times)

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2015, 10:22:49 PM »
I enjoy it when Simpkins covers our games. He takes the time to understand our kids.

You're going to have to walk me through what that second sentence is supposed to mean? 

willie warrior

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #126 on: January 26, 2015, 10:13:57 AM »
Geez, Simpkins is a bad commentator.  What gets me is when he sounds like a 15 year old girl with his "OMG", and "hashtag ..." after a nice play by someone. 
C,mon man--he was giving Derrick the love.
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #127 on: January 26, 2015, 02:58:01 PM »
Don't know who said it here during the Georgetown game, but it is more convincing then ever that Duane is a shooting guard, not a point guard.
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NersEllenson

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #128 on: January 26, 2015, 03:03:01 PM »
Don't know who said it here during the Georgetown game, but it is more convincing then ever that Duane is a shooting guard, not a point guard.

LOL - Just because you want and support a PG that cannot hit the broad side of a barn, does not mean a PG shouldn't be a good shooter and threat from all over the floor.

Duane created a number of his looks by himself as it was - and furthermore if you had a clue, once the ball is in the half court set, all guards handle the ball and spend time playing off the ball.

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Wojo'sMojo

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #129 on: January 26, 2015, 05:17:28 PM »
LOL - Just because you want and support a PG that cannot hit the broad side of a barn, does not mean a PG shouldn't be a good shooter and threat from all over the floor.

Duane created a number of his looks by himself as it was - and furthermore if you had a clue, once the ball is in the half court set, all guards handle the ball and spend time playing off the ball.



Exactly! Guy hits multiple 3's and apparently that disqualifies him from running the point at MU in some people's eyes. I guess we should just look for the reincarnation of Derrick when he graduates and all will be well!

willie warrior

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #130 on: January 26, 2015, 05:33:39 PM »
Exactly! Guy hits multiple 3's and apparently that disqualifies him from running the point at MU in some people's eyes. I guess we should just look for the reincarnation of Derrick when he graduates and all will be well!
Now come on. About 65% of the people in the poll have spoken. Derrick should be the starting PG--not Duane. Everything is great in a democracy and the people have spoken. We should not give the keys to Duane now to see how he performs at PG. Don't worry--be happy. Preparing for the future is not necessary The people believe that 6 points a game and 10-9 are the way to roll.
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MUHoopsFan2

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2015, 12:48:38 AM »
Don't know who said it here during the Georgetown game, but it is more convincing then ever that Duane is a shooting guard, not a point guard.
Not necessarily true my friend.

Just because you can hit shots does not mean that you cannot create for others and distribute. Bucks fans say the same thing about Brandon Knight...

You need to re-examine the PG position in today's game. It is not your traditional cookie cutter version of what we used to perceive a PG to be per se.

Even Travis Diener could shoot and hit 3's. Does that mean he was not a point guard?  

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #132 on: January 27, 2015, 12:58:06 AM »
Not necessarily true my friend.

Just because you can hit shots does not mean that you cannot create for others and distribute. Bucks fans say the same thing about Brandon Knight...

You need to re-examine the PG position in today's game. It is not your traditional cookie cutter version of what we used to perceive a PG to be per se.

Even Travis Diener could shoot and hit 3's. Does that mean he was not a point guard?  

I think his point was that Duane was at his best when he was running off screens and getting set up by others. PGs don't usually get that luxury. However, I agree, I think Duane, with a full offseason of practice, could be a fantastic PG.
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Shark

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #133 on: January 27, 2015, 02:27:08 AM »
Face it.. Duane isn't going to get the PG spot over our two resident Senior PG's. This season still has life and college sports aren't like major sports. You don't "rebuild" and simultaneously cast out your senior captains. But I do think Duane will/could be our PG. Watched him at Dominican and he is great at it. Right now on this team he is our undisputed second offensive option. So it's better to have Derrick facilitate our only two guards who can make things happen.

Next year the offensive dynamic and scheme will likely be completely different. But for now Derrick is our point and after him it's Carlino. Wojo believes in rewarding the guys with experience and I honestly have no problem with that.

MU82

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #134 on: January 27, 2015, 05:35:22 AM »
If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!

Seriously, given everything we know right this second, Duane is next season's PG. There are no other options.

There is no reason he can't continue to be used how he is being used this season, though. He gets a few opportunities to run the point, more opportunities to play off the ball and plenty of time on the court. That, combined with all the work he'll do during the offseason, will be plenty of preparation for him.

I have no problem with the way Wojo is using him -- or Derrick. I have not been the biggest fan of Derrick's game, but I think his strengths have helped the team more than his liabilities have hurt it this season.

We can't use his shooting percentage to hammer him last year and then conveniently avoid mentioning that it is better than Carlino's, Duane's, Jajuan's and Taylor's this season -- and that even his 3-point percentage is better than Jajuan's.

I still think Derrick plays too many minutes, but, in context, his court time is not as outrageous as it was last season because he is more of a contributor this season.

Besides, coaches simply do not throw their senior captains to the curb. So a former high school player demanding 8 bazillion times that's what Wojo should do is unrealistic.

I mean, I can keep saying Jessica Alba should be my sex toy, but suggesting that's what Jessica is going to do is unrealistic.
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Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #135 on: January 27, 2015, 07:27:29 AM »
I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG.  And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together.  This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon.  And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition.  Think of the three amigos as seniors.  Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition.  I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.

Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.

MU82

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #136 on: January 27, 2015, 08:57:25 AM »
I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG.  And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together.  This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon.  And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition.  Think of the three amigos as seniors.  Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition.  I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.

Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.

Great examples with Wojo's experiences at Duke and reasonable projections for his plans at Marquette.

Unless you have an elite PG -- which we haven't had since Diener, and some might not even bestow "elite" status on him (though I do) -- folks are too into trying to assign labels.

In our Elite 8 year, it was often Junior's job to hand the ball to Vander and get out of the way.

And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
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brewcity77

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #137 on: January 27, 2015, 09:00:40 AM »
And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.

John Paxson for the first, Ron Harper for the second, with BJ Armstrong getting some good minutes.
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MerrittsMustache

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #138 on: January 27, 2015, 09:03:39 AM »
And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.

Good point. I mean, if Marquette had the greatest player in college basketball history, a top 25 all-time player as well as the greatest coach in college basketball history, then the PG position would be less important.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #139 on: January 27, 2015, 09:07:43 AM »
John Paxson for the first, Ron Harper for the second, with BJ Armstrong getting some good minutes.

And that's 82's point. Paxson, Harper, BJ and Steve Kerr were called point guards, but they were really shooting or combo guards. Pippen and Jordan dominated the ball.

Nukem2

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #140 on: January 27, 2015, 09:16:23 AM »
Great examples with Wojo's experiences at Duke and reasonable projections for his plans at Marquette.

Unless you have an elite PG -- which we haven't had since Diener, and some might not even bestow "elite" status on him (though I do) -- folks are too into trying to assign labels.

In our Elite 8 year, it was often Junior's job to hand the ball to Vander and get out of the way.

And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
I think Dominic James would be considered an elite level collegiate PG.  Had he not fractured his foot, MU had a real chance to go to the Final 4 his senior season.

MU82

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #141 on: January 27, 2015, 09:31:41 AM »
I think Dominic James would be considered an elite level collegiate PG.  Had he not fractured his foot, MU had a real chance to go to the Final 4 his senior season.

Fair enough. How quickly I forget!

Dom wasn't an elite shooter, nor really an elite scorer, but he made those around him better for sure.
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MU82

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #142 on: January 27, 2015, 09:35:47 AM »
Good point. I mean, if Marquette had the greatest player in college basketball history, a top 25 all-time player as well as the greatest coach in college basketball history, then the PG position would be less important.


No need to get snarky. It was just an example of how teams need not necessarily settle on labeled positions. As the poster who talked about Duke's recent backcourts explained.

Unless we recruit a JUCO or grad student, we probably will have a combo of Duane, Cohen, Cheatham, NN (if applicable), etc, on the court, with each taking turns dominating the ball and playing off it. And absent a true stud PG, that probably would be a good thing.
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4everwarriors

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #143 on: January 27, 2015, 09:51:22 AM »
If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!

Seriously, given everything we know right this second, Duane is next season's PG. There are no other options.

There is no reason he can't continue to be used how he is being used this season, though. He gets a few opportunities to run the point, more opportunities to play off the ball and plenty of time on the court. That, combined with all the work he'll do during the offseason, will be plenty of preparation for him.

I have no problem with the way Wojo is using him -- or Derrick. I have not been the biggest fan of Derrick's game, but I think his strengths have helped the team more than his liabilities have hurt it this season.

We can't use his shooting percentage to hammer him last year and then conveniently avoid mentioning that it is better than Carlino's, Duane's, Jajuan's and Taylor's this season -- and that even his 3-point percentage is better than Jajuan's.

I still think Derrick plays too many minutes, but, in context, his court time is not as outrageous as it was last season because he is more of a contributor this season.

Besides, coaches simply do not throw their senior captains to the curb. So a former high school player demanding 8 bazillion times that's what Wojo should do is unrealistic.

I mean, I can keep saying Jessica Alba should be my sex toy, but suggesting that's what Jessica is going to do is unrealistic.


Jessica probably got one look at your wallet and your Johnson and said, "thanks,but no thanks," aina?
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MerrittsMustache

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #144 on: January 27, 2015, 10:01:32 AM »
No need to get snarky. It was just an example of how teams need not necessarily settle on labeled positions. As the poster who talked about Duke's recent backcourts explained.

Unless we recruit a JUCO or grad student, we probably will have a combo of Duane, Cohen, Cheatham, NN (if applicable), etc, on the court, with each taking turns dominating the ball and playing off it. And absent a true stud PG, that probably would be a good thing.

My apologies. In re-reading the thread more closely, I actually think that we have a similar viewpoint. I misunderstood the context of your comment.

True. The Bulls didn't really have a true PG, let alone an "elite" PG, when they were winning championships. Paxson was a combo guard and Harper was a SG given the PG label. The recent Heat teams also fit this model since I don't think anyone would say that Mario Chalmers "ran the offense." Even recently at MU, they weren't clearing out for the PG and letting him make a play in crunch time. The ball was going to Novak, McNeal, Butler, DJO, Crowder, Blue, etc.

Too many fans still have this idea of basketball players falling neatly into positions PG, SG, SF, PF and C (or 1-5). It doesn't work that way anymore. Sure, it's great to have a Chris Paul and/or a Dwight Howard fill a specific role, but for the most part, players need to have a number of different skills because quite frankly, there just aren't that many Pauls and Howards around. One could even argue that having 4-5 guys on a team who can handle the ball is more valuable than having one dynamic playmaker.


chapman

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #145 on: January 27, 2015, 10:05:41 AM »
I've always been a fan of the dynamic point guard, if that's the right word.  Makes plays, might turn it over a bit, but can score and assists are due to driving or garnering significant attention from the defense.  The type Crean always tries to have.  Buzz seemed to be more of a fan of a facilitator - low turnovers, takes what they're given when it comes to scoring,  distributes the ball to the more dynamic wings within the offensive scheme.  Wojo doesn't really get to choose this year when he's got to fill 200 minutes with eight players, most who have limited experience.  If he wants two of the former who are just "guards", he'll get there, but he doesn't have the horses yet.

brewcity77

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #146 on: January 27, 2015, 10:26:06 AM »
And that's 82's point. Paxson, Harper, BJ and Steve Kerr were called point guards, but they were really shooting or combo guards. Pippen and Jordan dominated the ball.

I thought the point was more that they were anonymous. Paxson and BJ were definitely point guards. When MJ retired the first time, BJ started the all-star game at the point the next year. They may not have been prolific point guards because of how Pippen and Jordan dominated the ball, but those two were points. Harper, agreed, a combo guard, and Kerr on that team was really just a three-point shooter off the bench.

While they may have been anonymous to non-Bulls fans, I remember them all pretty vividly, though Paxson definitely stands out for that shot in the desert to capture the third title against Phoenix.
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keefe

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #147 on: January 27, 2015, 10:33:56 AM »
If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!



Is that the feline equivalent of, "If Duane were a dog, he'd lick his package?"


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NersEllenson

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #148 on: January 27, 2015, 10:41:20 AM »
If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!

Seriously, given everything we know right this second, Duane is next season's PG. There are no other options.

There is no reason he can't continue to be used how he is being used this season, though. He gets a few opportunities to run the point, more opportunities to play off the ball and plenty of time on the court. That, combined with all the work he'll do during the offseason, will be plenty of preparation for him.

I have no problem with the way Wojo is using him -- or Derrick. I have not been the biggest fan of Derrick's game, but I think his strengths have helped the team more than his liabilities have hurt it this season.

We can't use his shooting percentage to hammer him last year and then conveniently avoid mentioning that it is better than Carlino's, Duane's, Jajuan's and Taylor's this season -- and that even his 3-point percentage is better than Jajuan's.

I still think Derrick plays too many minutes, but, in context, his court time is not as outrageous as it was last season because he is more of a contributor this season.

Besides, coaches simply do not throw their senior captains to the curb. So a former high school player demanding 8 bazillion times that's what Wojo should do is unrealistic.

I mean, I can keep saying Jessica Alba should be my sex toy, but suggesting that's what Jessica is going to do is unrealistic.

I can agree with the above statement.  It isn't nearly as atrocious as it was last season.  However, the team desperately needs a 3rd scorer, and everyone knows that won't be Steve, Juan, or evidently Luke against Big East caliber centers - so who does that leave??  JJJ and Cohen.

You can't remove Duane or Carlino.  So which guards minutes can you cut in the hopes to get a 3rd scorer on the floor? 

Again, if we are winning games, no argument.  But, we aren't.  We are losing close games.  The zone mitigates Derrick's best trait - which would be being a solid on ball defender.  The length of JJJ and Sandy would be very beneficial to our zone.

Wojo's insistence to play Derrick 34 minutes a game is where I continue to have a beef.  Not allocating 15-20 of those minutes to Cohen and JJJ is where I absolutely disagree.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Groom Duane Wilson as PG NOW
« Reply #149 on: January 27, 2015, 12:21:29 PM »
I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG.  And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together.  This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon.  And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition.  Think of the three amigos as seniors.  Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition.  I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.

Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.

That's a good point and one I hadn't considered.
TAMU

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