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Author Topic: Wally!!  (Read 48104 times)

Mug Rack

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2015, 04:55:48 PM »
To answer an earlier question, Marquette has had a number of national champions in track since Ralph Metcalfe.  Ken Weisner won the high jump three times.  Our most recent champion was Keith Hanson in 1986.  Keith won the 10K at the NCAA meet hosted by Duke.

Sadly, those days are long gone. As someone noted above, MU no longer provides the scholarships or other support needed to compete at that level.  Wally could have received a full ride from several schools to be full time jumper.  No one at his talent level would go to MU to high jump.  We don't have the scholarships, facilities or coaching for someone like Wally.  His efforts for the track team are an incredible gift to the school.

Class71

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2015, 05:18:12 PM »
Correct but he keeps getting better and better in jumping.  It's is getting hard to ignore his extraordinary talent at it.

Yesterday jump hit the Olympic A standard, qualified him for this summer outdoor world championships and is currently number 3 in the world (this number will go down as the track season unfolds).  Let me put this in prospective.  MU has never produce a basketball player as good as Wally is in jumping.  Not Wade, not Butch Lee, not Lucas. 

Only about half-a-dozen jumpers in the US are capable of these levels.   He might be the only "part-time" jumper hitting these standards.

At what point do re-consider your goals when you have a gift that only a handful of people on the planet have, but tens of millions would like?

We think the same way but it is up to Wally.  I hope he makes the right choice for him.
⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵

TedBaxter

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2015, 05:46:02 PM »
Sadly, those days are long gone. As someone noted above, MU no longer provides the scholarships or other support needed to compete at that level.  Wally could have received a full ride from several schools to be full time jumper.  No one at his talent level would go to MU to high jump.  We don't have the scholarships, facilities or coaching for someone like Wally.  His efforts for the track team are an incredible gift to the school.

You can thank he drain of womens sports and Title IX.
If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

real chili 83

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2015, 06:03:46 PM »
You can thank he drain of womens sports and Title IX.

?

In English please

TedBaxter

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2015, 06:07:50 PM »
?

In English please

Add a t in front of the he.
If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

GGGG

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2015, 06:22:09 PM »
You can thank he drain of womens sports and Title IX.

I really don't think Title IX has anything to do with it.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 06:26:18 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

real chili 83

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2015, 06:24:43 PM »

TedBaxter

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2015, 06:27:18 PM »
If a women's sport was able to fund the other women's sports, I'd have no problem with it being an equal deal.  Because they don't, I don't think it should be equal. Am I wrong?  Probably, but is it equal that women's basketball under the NCAA have more scholarships to offer than men's programs?
If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

GGGG

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2015, 06:30:02 PM »
If a women's sport was able to fund the other women's sports, I'd have no problem with it being an equal deal.  Because they don't, I don't think it should be equal. Am I wrong?  Probably, but is it equal that women's basketball under the NCAA have more scholarships to offer than men's programs?


NCAA scholarship limitations aren't applicable.  Title IX is applicable to schools and how they distribute scholarship money and other resources. 

That and relatively few people truly care about Marquette's track and field program.

TedBaxter

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2015, 06:53:14 PM »

NCAA scholarship limitations aren't applicable.  Title IX is applicable to schools and how they distribute scholarship money and other resources.  

That and relatively few people truly care about Marquette's track and field program.

Still reeling from the startup of the UW women's softball program after the competitive baseball program was shut down and then they build the new softball complex on the old baseball site. Ouch!!!
If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

warriorchick

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2015, 07:09:44 PM »
If a women's sport was able to fund the other women's sports, I'd have no problem with it being an equal deal.  Because they don't, I don't think it should be equal. Am I wrong?  Probably, but is it equal that women's basketball under the NCAA have more scholarships to offer than men's programs?

Yes, you are wrong. That would be a stupid rule that the "profit" from men's sports should only fund other men's sports.  What does gender have to do with it?
Have some patience, FFS.

MU1980

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2015, 07:26:12 PM »
Okay, want to clear up some misconceptions about Marquette track and NCAA track in general.  

-Marquette does have a rich history in track, with several Olympians and national champions, with the last NCAA Champ being Keith Hanson in the 10,000 meters in 1986.  

-Even in the 1990's and 2,000's, men's and women's cross country, indoor track and outdoor track were fairly competitive, with a combined 23 team championships in the Great Midwest and Conference-USA. and many individual champions, three all-Americans and a few conference MVP's.    

-There are equivalency sports and head count sports.  For example basketball and volleyball are head count sports, where the NCAA limits how many scholarships you can give (i.e. men's basketball has 13) and everyone gets a full ride.  There are no partial scholarships in a head count sport; you are either a full ride or walk-on.  Sports like track and soccer are equivalency sports where you get a certain amount of scholarship money and you can divide it up however you want.  You could have someone getting as little as $100 scholarship all the way up to a full ride.  

-The NCAA limit for men's cross country, indoor track and outdoor track is 12.6 scholarships.  To have a full track team with at least a couple of athletes in each event, it takes a lot more than 12 or 13 guys, therefore there are very, very, very few full ride scholarships given in men's track at any school, including the power conferences.  Someone at Wally's level could have gotten a full ride at some schools I am guessing because he is almost a sure NCAA champion or very high placer, but it is rare to get a full ride.

-Marquette gives about 8 scholarships for men's track/cross country, so it is even more unlikely to give someone a full ride at Marquette, when you are trying to stretch 8 scholarships out over 20 or more guys.  

-Someone said there is less support for men's track/cross country than in 1986 when Keith Hanson won his national title, but that is far from the truth.  Back then the scholarship amount was about 4 total scholarships and all trips were in crowded vans driving across the country.  There was only one full time coach.  The outdoor track was a crappy asphalt track 2 miles from campus at the old Marquette stadium and the indoor track was the one in the old gym with a banked balcony track that is about 14 1/2 laps to a mile.

-The current track team has quite a bit more to offer than back in the 1980's with more scholarships, charter buses to meets and the money to fly to some meets, a very good outdoor track at Valley fields, better locker room, better weight room and three full time coaches.  The only thing that hasn't changed is there is still no indoor track except for at the old gym.  Try to imagine having a tennis team without courts, a soccer team without a field, a basketball team without a court, etc.  In this climate, having good indoor facilities is really important and Marquette is one of the few DI schools in the northern part of the country that doesn't have an indoor facility.  

-The coaching staff is very knowledgeable and has the skills to work with an athlete like Wally.  He jumped higher in his first meet for Marquette than he ever did at Minnesota so that tells you something right there.  Yes I understand much of that is talent, but when you get that good, just getting another inch or two is very difficult and the Marquette coaches have already gotten that out of him.  I for one was very, very impressed when I heard how high he jumped in his first meet.  

-Despite only having the old gym as the indoor facility, they do have a high jump pit and have rubberized runways that they put on the gym floor and it is very conducive to getting actual practice in a pit.  As mentioned, the outdoor facility is very good.  

-Wally is Olympic caliber and it will be interesting to see what direction he chooses to go.  My guess is if he can earn some playing time next year and has a chance to play with his brother for a year or two, that would be ideal for him as it seems like basketball is his first love.  But it sure seems difficult to pass up the chance to be an Olympian and my hope is he can do both well, since that is what he seems like he wants to do.  
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 07:28:57 PM by MU1980 »

TedBaxter

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2015, 07:29:28 PM »
I'll ask the experts. Don't scholarships have to match the makeup of the student body, so if MU is made up of 55% of women, the athletic scholarships have to be broken out that way? I'm asking.
If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

GGGG

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2015, 07:31:23 PM »
I'll ask the experts. Don't scholarships have to match the makeup of the student body, so if MU is made up of 55% of women, the athletic scholarships have to be broken out that way? I'm asking.


Roughly yes.

Coleman

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2015, 07:41:43 PM »
Okay, want to clear up some misconceptions about Marquette track and NCAA track in general.  

-Marquette does have a rich history in track, with several Olympians and national champions, with the last NCAA Champ being Keith Hanson in the 10,000 meters in 1986.  

-Even in the 1990's and 2,000's, men's and women's cross country, indoor track and outdoor track were fairly competitive, with a combined 23 team championships in the Great Midwest and Conference-USA. and many individual champions, three all-Americans and a few conference MVP's.    

-There are equivalency sports and head count sports.  For example basketball and volleyball are head count sports, where the NCAA limits how many scholarships you can give (i.e. men's basketball has 13) and everyone gets a full ride.  There are no partial scholarships in a head count sport; you are either a full ride or walk-on.  Sports like track and soccer are equivalency sports where you get a certain amount of scholarship money and you can divide it up however you want.  You could have someone getting as little as $100 scholarship all the way up to a full ride.  

-The NCAA limit for men's cross country, indoor track and outdoor track is 12.6 scholarships.  To have a full track team with at least a couple of athletes in each event, it takes a lot more than 12 or 13 guys, therefore there are very, very, very few full ride scholarships given in men's track at any school, including the power conferences.  Someone at Wally's level could have gotten a full ride at some schools I am guessing because he is almost a sure NCAA champion or very high placer, but it is rare to get a full ride.

-Marquette gives about 8 scholarships for men's track/cross country, so it is even more unlikely to give someone a full ride at Marquette, when you are trying to stretch 8 scholarships out over 20 or more guys.  

-Someone said there is less support for men's track/cross country than in 1986 when Keith Hanson won his national title, but that is far from the truth.  Back then the scholarship amount was about 4 total scholarships and all trips were in crowded vans driving across the country.  There was only one full time coach.  The outdoor track was a crappy asphalt track 2 miles from campus at the old Marquette stadium and the indoor track was the one in the old gym with a banked balcony track that is about 14 1/2 laps to a mile.

-The current track team has quite a bit more to offer than back in the 1980's with more scholarships, charter buses to meets and the money to fly to some meets, a very good outdoor track at Valley fields, better locker room, better weight room and three full time coaches.  The only thing that hasn't changed is there is still no indoor track except for at the old gym.  Try to imagine having a tennis team without courts, a soccer team without a field, a basketball team without a court, etc.  In this climate, having good indoor facilities is really important and Marquette is one of the few DI schools in the northern part of the country that doesn't have an indoor facility.  

-The coaching staff is very knowledgeable and has the skills to work with an athlete like Wally.  He jumped higher in his first meet for Marquette than he ever did at Minnesota so that tells you something right there.  Yes I understand much of that is talent, but when you get that good, just getting another inch or two is very difficult and the Marquette coaches have already gotten that out of him.  I for one was very, very impressed when I heard how high he jumped in his first meet.  

-Despite only having the old gym as the indoor facility, they do have a high jump pit and have rubberized runways that they put on the gym floor and it is very conducive to getting actual practice in a pit.  As mentioned, the outdoor facility is very good.  

-Wally is Olympic caliber and it will be interesting to see what direction he chooses to go.  My guess is if he can earn some playing time next year and has a chance to play with his brother for a year or two, that would be ideal for him as it seems like basketball is his first love.  But it sure seems difficult to pass up the chance to be an Olympian and my hope is he can do both well, since that is what he seems like he wants to do.  

Thanks for the insight. Still weird though that MU only has 8 scholarships available when they are allowed 12.6 by the NCAA. That would be like only giving men's basketball 9 to work with.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 07:47:07 PM by Bleuteaux »

We R Final Four

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2015, 07:44:08 PM »
Still reeling from the startup of the UW women's softball program after the competitive baseball program was shut down and then they build the new softball complex on the old baseball site. Ouch!!!

You are reeling over UW baseball/softball?

Don't.

ChuckyChip

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2015, 07:46:52 PM »
Thanks for the insight. Still weird though that MU only has 8 scholarships available when they are allowed 12.6 by the NCAA. That would be like giving only giving men's basketball 9 to work with.

Only using nine this year  ;D

warriorchick

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2015, 07:53:42 PM »
Thanks for the insight. Still weird though that MU only has 8 scholarships available when they are allowed 12.6 by the NCAA. That would be like only giving men's basketball 9 to work with.

It's not weird, it's $$$$.  Not enough cash in the Blue and Gold Fund to finance 12.6.
Have some patience, FFS.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2015, 08:44:00 PM »
It's not weird, it's $$$$.  Not enough cash in the Blue and Gold Fund to finance 12.6.


Correct!

The Blue/Gold fund smashed its all-time records this year by raising $600k.  That funds 12 schollies!  So to get the extra 4.5 schollies for track requires $250k EVERY YEAR!

Mug Rack

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2015, 08:56:46 PM »
Very surprised our men's team has 8 scholies.  I know in the old Big East we had the poorest funded team.  The 8 scholies must be spread over CC, indoor and outdoor track.  Coach Allen would have won the national title with funding like that in the 80's.

MU1980

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2015, 09:06:36 PM »
nm
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 09:19:29 PM by MU1980 »

MU1980

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2015, 09:07:24 PM »
nm
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 09:19:41 PM by MU1980 »

MU1980

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2015, 09:09:38 PM »
Men's basketball revenue and the Blue and Gold fund basically fund the entire athletic department, so it is understandable that they can't fully fund all the sports.  However, with the exception of Golf, Men's and women's cross country has had the least amount of funding in regards to percent of scholarships given compared to the NCAA maximum allowable, along with the smallest coaching staff in relation to the number of sports (men's and women's track/cross country accounts for 6 of the NCAA required minimum of 14 sports) and size of the team (approximately 80-100 athletes each year).

As someone said, nobody really cares about Marquette Track & Field (okay I know there are a few of us that do), but none of the sports besides men's basketball are bringing in money to the school or drawing thousands of fans, so if the majority of the sports are fully funded, there needs to be a push to have them all fully funded and on an equal playing field in the Competitive Big East.

MU1980

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2015, 09:17:18 PM »
Very surprised our men's team has 8 scholies.  I know in the old Big East we had the poorest funded team.  The 8 scholies must be spread over CC, indoor and outdoor track.  Coach Allen would have won the national title with funding like that in the 80's.

Men's track/cross country has had around 7-8 scholarships for the past 10-15 years, but yes they were one of the poorest funded teams in the old big East.  Yes the 8 scholarships are for both cross country and track, so the distance runners are really getting a track scholarship, but also running cross country.  I am not sure Coach Allen could have won a national title with a few more scholarships, but he was a very good coach and definitely made excellent use of the ones he had. 

MU1980

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Re: Wally!!
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2015, 09:38:18 PM »
Very surprised our men's team has 8 scholies.  I know in the old Big East we had the poorest funded team.  The 8 scholies must be spread over CC, indoor and outdoor track.  Coach Allen would have won the national title with funding like that in the 80's.

Okay, really sorry to hijack this thread talking about track on a basketball message board, but one thing to keep in mind is that the coach can decide what type of athletes the scholarships go to.  Since Coach Allen had such few scholarships, he put most of the money into distance runners.  Even the great sprinter in the late 70's, early 80's, John Rydeski, started out as a walk-on.  Since there was no conference back then, having a well-rounded program with athletes in all the events wasn't that important since there was no conference meet to try and score as many points as possible.  Since joining a conference in the late 1980's, the coaches have tried to develop a more well-rounded program, giving scholarships to not only distance runners, but also throwers, sprinters and jumpers.  If you look at the Big East indoor and outdoor results last year, many points were scored by non-distance runners and I believe they even took 1st and 2nd in the high jump at the indoor meet.  I think Wally might have a chance to win this year. :)