Deonte Burton to Iowa State!

[Nukem2]

Burton doesn't "lose" a year of eligibility.  He only has four, and he's using them all.  Its his choice not to use them in the most efficient manner.  

Look at how he uses his eligibilty:

2013-14:  Eligible at MU
2014-15:  Eligible at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16:  Eligible at ISU (by virtue of playing 2nd semester)
2016-17:  Eligible at ISU
Four seasons of eligibility used--zero lost.


If he wanted to have more playing time at ISU, he could have done this:
2013-14:  Uses Eligible year at MU
2014-15:  Uses Eligible year at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16:  Sits out full season
2016-17:  Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
2017-18:  Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)

This approach also uses his four years of eligibility, but spreads it across five years, which maximizes his playing time.

Correct and totally agree.  But suspect Burton and his people are looking for a quicker path to the NBA.  We shall see.

[GGGG]

The tampering issue is obviously why the one year rule is there in the first place as voted on by the schools years ago.  Otherwise the inmates would be running the asylum.  As long as everybody knows the rule ahead of time, all is fair with allowable exceptions for unusual circumstances (which the NCAA has been granting and/or most schools are accommodating for).

Look, I just don't think it would be the chaos you think it would be.  And even if it is a little chaotic, I am OK with that.  Yes, I understand that it means players could be "free agents" and be picked off by contenders in their fourth year.  And I have no problem with that.  Especially with the "lifetime scholarship" being picked up by the "final" school, which means that any player has time to complete a degree after their eligibility ends.

[brandx]

Correct and totally agree.  But suspect Burton and his people are looking for a quicker path to the NBA.  We shall see.

Bribery would be quickest and best.

Does anyone think he can play the '2' at the next level? Play the '3'? Play the '4'?

[Nukem2]

Look, I just don't think it would be the chaos you think it would be.  And even if it is a little chaotic, I am OK with that.  Yes, I understand that it means players could be "free agents" and be picked off by contenders in their fourth year.  And I have no problem with that.  Especially with the "lifetime scholarship" being picked up by the "final" school, which means that any player has time to complete a degree after their eligibility ends.

Think players would be well protected with 4 year/lifetime scholies.  If they want to move on, well deal with the rule. Guy still has scholie and 4 years of eligibility (unless he does a mid-year, but that's his choice ).  Both sides are protected.  Don't think they are going to change the one year sit out rule.

[94Warrior]

It's very simple. Eligibility and redshirts aren't split between years.

I get it.  I just don't understand why any athlete should be PUNISHED and lose a year of eligibility for transferring!   MU82 was exactly right when he said it was rigged against the student-athlete.  

If the student does the work in the classroom to remain eligible, he/she should NEVER lose a semester or two of eligibility to compete on the court for 4 FULL YEARS.  I understand having them sit out, to discourage transfers, but never understood why they would lose eligibility.

[94Warrior]

Burton doesn't "lose" a year of eligibility.  He only has four, and he's using them all.  Its his choice not to use them in the most efficient manner.  

Look at how he uses his eligibilty:

2013-14:  Eligible at MU
2014-15:  Eligible at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16:  Eligible at ISU (by virtue of playing 2nd semester)
2016-17:  Eligible at ISU
Four seasons of eligibility used--zero lost.


If he wanted to have more playing time at ISU, he could have done this:
2013-14:  Uses Eligible year at MU
2014-15:  Uses Eligible year at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16:  Sits out full season
2016-17:  Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
2017-18:  Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)

This approach also uses his four years of eligibility, but spreads it across five years, which maximizes his playing time.

Thanks for spelling it out.  But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season and playing 2nd semester next season (whether you call it eligibility or not).  At best, he could lose 1 semester, by sitting out 1.5 years.  Either way THAT IS WRONG!  It's that simple!  

It's wrong for Burton, it's wrong for Fischer, it's wrong for every player that transferred mid-season.

[The Equalizer]

I get it.  I just don't understand why any athlete should be PUNISHED and lose a year of eligibility for transferring!   MU82 was exactly right when he said it was rigged against the student-athlete.  

If the student does the work in the classroom to remain eligible, he/she should NEVER lose a semester or two of eligibility to compete on the court for 4 FULL YEARS.  I understand having them sit out, to discourage transfers, but never understood why they would lose eligibility.

n/m

[wadesworld]

I get it.  I just don't understand why any athlete should be PUNISHED and lose a year of eligibility for transferring!   MU82 was exactly right when he said it was rigged against the student-athlete.  

If the student does the work in the classroom to remain eligible, he/she should NEVER lose a semester or two of eligibility to compete on the court for 4 FULL YEARS.  I understand having them sit out, to discourage transfers, but never understood why they would lose eligibility.

Thanks for spelling it out.  But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season (whether you call it eligibility or not).  That is wrong!  It's that simple!  

They don't have to lose eligibility.  Simply don't transfer midseason if you want to play 4 full seasons.  Not to mention, you can't let a midseason transfer just start playing the first semester of the following year, because then they would only be sitting out 1 semester while players who transfer at the end of the year are required to sit out a full year.  So that wouldn't make things fair.  So what, you let him start playing 2nd semester and then give him an additional first semester?  So your eligibility runs through mid-December of your 5th year of college and then you have to be done?  What school is going to want that situation?  That wouldn't make any sense.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Bribery would be quickest and best.

Does anyone think he can play the '2' at the next level? Play the '3'? Play the '4'?

He will never see the NBA unless he's paying for a ticket.

[94Warrior]

Again, I have no problem with having them sit a year.  But, why shouldn't Luke Fischer be a second semester Freshman eligibility-wise right now?  He would then have 3 more full seasons instead of 2.  

He transfers mid-season to get out of a situation that he considers a bad fit, and can only play 6 semesters instead of 8.  If you think that is fair to the student-athlete, we will have to agree to disagree.

[The Equalizer]

Again, I have no problem with having them sit a year.  But, why shouldn't Luke Fischer be a second semester Freshman eligibility-wise right now?  He would then have 3 more full seasons instead of 2.  

Because his freshman year was completely used already.

And because he has to sit out a year, he has two choices:
1. Play the 2nd semester this year and have 2 more full seasons.
2. Sit out this entire year and have 3 more full seasons.

He transfers mid-season to get out of a situation that he considers a bad fit, and can only play 6 semesters instead of 8.  If you think that is fair to the student-athlete, we will have to agree to disagree.

Why don't you map out how a player can transfer mid-season, sit out a year and still have 8 semesters of total playing time. 

I don't see how it can be done.

You seem to be either proposing an extra year of total eligibility (playing across five seasons without injury), which is patently unfair to all the kids who stay with their original team.  Or allowing him to play after sitting out only one semester, which is unfair to any kid who transfers at year's end and has to sit out a full year.







 

[GGGG]

Because his freshman year was completely used already.

And because he has to sit out a year, he has two choices:
1. Play the 2nd semester this year and have 2 more full seasons.
2. Sit out this entire year and have 3 more full seasons.

Why don't you map out how a player can transfer mid-season, sit out a year and still have 8 semesters of total playing time. 

I don't see how it can be done.

You seem to be either proposing an extra year of total eligibility (playing across five seasons without injury), which is patently unfair to all the kids who stay with their original team.  Or allowing him to play after sitting out only one semester, which is unfair to any kid who transfers at year's end and has to sit out a full year.

What he is advocating for is "half-years" of eligibility.  But this makes no sense because it would only affect sports played during the winter season and therefore straddling two semesters. 

[tower912]

As opposed to Bono, I hope he finds what he is looking for. 

[94Warrior]

Because his freshman year was completely used already.

And because he has to sit out a year, he has two choices:
1. Play the 2nd semester this year and have 2 more full seasons.
2. Sit out this entire year and have 3 more full seasons.

Why don't you map out how a player can transfer mid-season, sit out a year and still have 8 semesters of total playing time. 

I don't see how it can be done.

You seem to be either proposing an extra year of total eligibility (playing across five seasons without injury), which is patently unfair to all the kids who stay with their original team.  Or allowing him to play after sitting out only one semester, which is unfair to any kid who transfers at year's end and has to sit out a full year.

Luke Fischer has played in 12 games as a college athlete, so yes I think it is fair to still consider him a Freshman.  Most 2nd semester sophomores (which is what he currently is) have played in 40-45 games.  He will never get those 30 games back. 

Winter sports are unique in that each season crosses 2 semesters.  So, yes I would allow mid-season transfers to play 8 semesters.

In Luke's case, I believe the NCAA should allow him to play:
1 semester last season at IU,
1 semester this season at MU, and
3 more full seasons at MU. 

That would be 4 full seasons (or 8 semesters) across 5 years.  I understand that is not how it works, but I don't see how that would give the kid an unfair advantage over any kid who transfers at year end.  At the end of the day, Luke and every other mid-season transfer gets to play 6 semesters (7 if they sit out 1.5 years, but nobody does that), and kids that transfer at year end get to play 8 semesters.

[brewcity77]

Bribery would be quickest and best.

Does anyone think he can play the '2' at the next level? Play the '3'? Play the '4'?

I think Burton is a long shot, but it's not impossible. I don't think he'll ever be a star but he could be a tweener playing off the bench. Burton has a decent enough shot and plenty of athleticism. The problem is he has massive holes in his game to fix. If he can play with 100% effort 100% of the time while improving his defense and adding technique to his talent, he could play in the league.

Those are some big ifs, however, and he has a long way to go.

[Texas Western]

Deonte applying for waiver makes the story make a little more sense for me. I am sure someone told him that he could get a waiver for sure, so transferring now was in his best interest.

I hope that advice doesn't bite him in the ass.

That was my thought as well.

[The Equalizer]

Luke Fischer has played in 12 games as a college athlete, so yes I think it is fair to still consider him a Freshman.  Most 2nd semester sophomores (which is what he currently is) have played in 40-45 games.  He will never get those 30 games back. 

Winter sports are unique in that each season crosses 2 semesters.  So, yes I would allow mid-season transfers to play 8 semesters.

In Luke's case, I believe the NCAA should allow him to play:
1 semester last season at IU,
1 semester this season at MU, and
3 more full seasons at MU. 

That would be 4 full seasons (or 8 semesters) across 5 years.

If you're going to do this for transfers, wouldn't it be unfair not to allow it for any player?  Lets say a kid like Sandy Cohen decides that he's not progressing as quickly as he'd like in his first half-year.  He decides at semester break to sit out the rest of the year, and the first 9 games of the following season.  He'd then get to play the 2nd semester of his sophomore year, then have three MORE years of eligibility after that.

Is it fair to only allow that option for transfers but not give the same option to those players who stay with their team?

I understand that is not how it works, but I don't see how that would give the kid an unfair advantage over any kid who transfers at year end. 

First off, a mid-year under your plan only has to sit out one semester, but a end-of-season has to sit out two.  Unfair.

Second, not only is the waiting time shorter, but a freshman who leaves mid year under your plan would get 7 more semesters of playing over the next four years, while an end-of-year only gets six more over three years.

Worse, a mid-year hurts his team more because he can't be replaced until the next season.  At least if a kid leaves at seasons' end, you can fill his space with another player.  

Bottom line is that this would be terrible for teams, because it essentially encourages kids to transfer mid-year.  

[bilsu]

Thanks for spelling it out.  But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season and playing 2nd semester next season (whether you call it eligibility or not).  At best, he could lose 1 semester, by sitting out 1.5 years.  Either way THAT IS WRONG!  It's that simple!  

It's wrong for Burton, it's wrong for Fischer, it's wrong for every player that transferred mid-season.

No it is not wrong. When you transfer mid-season you are screwing the school you are leaving, because they cannot replace you with another scholarship player. I do not feel sorry for any player that decides to leave at end of first semester.

[forgetful]

Burton only played in 8 games.  If I were him I would apply for a medical redshirt under the context of psychological illness, essentially depression and difficulty dealing with his mother's death.

I think we would all agree that he didn't appear like his usual self and it is completely understandable.  Even leaving the city would be rational as I'm sure some aspects of being around where he grew up brings back memories.

He's a good kid, if he applies for a waiver etc., I hope he gets it.

[Johnny B]

Good bye Deonte Burton

[94Warrior]

If you're going to do this for transfers, wouldn't it be unfair not to allow it for any player?  Lets say a kid like Sandy Cohen decides that he's not progressing as quickly as he'd like in his first half-year.  He decides at semester break to sit out the rest of the year, and the first 9 games of the following season.  He'd then get to play the 2nd semester of his sophomore year, then have three MORE years of eligibility after that

Is it fair to only allow that option for transfers but not give the same option to those players who stay with their team?

First off, a mid-year under your plan only has to sit out one semester, but a end-of-season has to sit out two.  Unfair.

Second, not only is the waiting time shorter, but a freshman who leaves mid year under your plan would get 7 more semesters of playing over the next four years, while an end-of-year only gets six more over three years.

Worse, a mid-year hurts his team more because he can't be replaced until the next season.  At least if a kid leaves at seasons' end, you can fill his space with another player.  

Bottom line is that this would be terrible for teams, because it essentially encourages kids to transfer mid-year.  

Your first point is a good one.  I hadn't considered a player staying at a school, playing one semester and sitting out two, and not having the 2 semesters he sits out count against him.  Essentially getting a 'redshirt' year which begins mid-season.  I suppose you would have to allow that in all fairness.  Although I doubt it would happen, players want to play.

Your second point is flawed.  In my example (Luke and Deonte's situation), a mid-year transfer still has to sit a full year (from December to December).  No advantage there.

It's a good debate, I am simply not comfortable taking 2 semesters from a kid for getting out of a bad situation.  College goes bye too fast as it is.

[mattyv1908]

I would say a good compromise is to allow any player in his freshman season immediate elligibility if he transfers.  Therefore there is no difference if a player transfers midseason or after the season is over - if he's a freshman, he's able to play the first game of the following season with his new team with three years remaining.

After that I'm fine with the same rules applying.

[Autoengineer]

Well, wasn't he reportedly down to UCLA and IA State?   Looks like he made a good call after the beat down UCLA took today.  I think Alabama A & M could have done what they did.  What was Kevon Looney thinking when he could have gone anywhere in the country?

I can think of  a lot of reasons to go to UCLA.....and they are all blond, tan, and wear very little due to the warm weather!

[WarriorFan]

I'm very pleased for Deonte.  Hoberg is a good coach.  I think he's a better teacher of the game than Alford and to me this is a good thing for Deonte.  He needs to learn the game and learn that at this level, he can no longer rely only on his freakish athleticism.  I think Deonte has the highest ceiling of all the guys we've seen in an MU uniform in the last 3 years.  (I haven't seen Luke enough, and I think a hundred of you will say Duane has the highest ceiling and I'll agree it's close).  Go learn the game young man... and if you do we'll see you in the NBA.

[CTWarrior]

They don't have to lose eligibility.  Simply don't transfer midseason if you want to play 4 full seasons.  Not to mention, you can't let a midseason transfer just start playing the first semester of the following year, because then they would only be sitting out 1 semester while players who transfer at the end of the year are required to sit out a full year.  So that wouldn't make things fair.  So what, you let him start playing 2nd semester and then give him an additional first semester?  So your eligibility runs through mid-December of your 5th year of college and then you have to be done?  What school is going to want that situation?  That wouldn't make any sense.

You wouldn't have to.  You could just make Burton, for example, sit out two semesters and still let him have his 2.5 years of eligibility left, concluding with the SECOND semester of his fifth year.  I'm not saying that the NCAA should do this.  Only that they could.

Bottom line is with that with the current set-up transferring mid-year costs you potential playing time of either 1/2 year (if you want to not play competitive basketball for 22(!) months) or one full year.  It is not a good deal for a player and they should probably finish out the season with their current team unless they are absolutely miserable there.