TNT debate on Jimmy

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I'm going to go ahead and say no professional sports team in the United States would ever hire a team doctor who bends the knee a few times and clears the player the franchise considers to be the best thing to happen since MJ coming off of an ACL tear.  Team doctors are overprotective in professional sports, and the guy was cleared for months.  I can't remember a time where a player was cleared by doctors to return to play and just chose not to.  He's as soft of a professional athlete as you will find, as evidenced by the fact that he can't play through a cold.

Most of the responses on Rose are idiotic, including this one.  I'm not quite sure why any post complimenting Jimmy's amazing year needs to sh*t on DRose.  That being said I've been very annoyed with him at times as most Bulls fans have. 

The Bulls made a horrible decision in 12-13 by just not declaring him out for the year right away.  People can argue all they want about his decision not to play that year.  Regardless of what it was the Bulls were not getting past Miami. 

People calling him a "hairy wet cat" probably haven't had two serious knee injuries in their life or any understanding of what coming back from that entails.  Butler is a warrior but playing through his thumb and shoulder injuries are not quite the same thing.  One of the problems is Rose doesn't seem to be particularly bright and his advisors and/or family have handled the whole situation poorly, especially some of his comments to the press.

What speaks volumes is that through all of this there have not been any rumblings from the locker room of players and/or coaches questioning Rose.  No discord whatsoever to speak of.  The Bulls will not go to the finals and win a title without him.

If Rose is still sitting out come playoff time due to questionable injuries or circumstances then a lot of this talk will have been proven right.  I'm pretty sure it was more than a cold that caused him to miss the last two.   

[wadesworld]

Most of the responses on Rose are idiotic, including this one.  I'm not quite sure why any post complimenting Jimmy's amazing year needs to sh*t on DRose.  That being said I've been very annoyed with him at times as most Bulls fans have. 

The Bulls made a horrible decision in 12-13 by just not declaring him out for the year right away.  People can argue all they want about his decision not to play that year.  Regardless of what it was the Bulls were not getting past Miami. 

People calling him a "hairy wet cat" probably haven't had two serious knee injuries in their life or any understanding of what coming back from that entails.  Butler is a warrior but playing through his thumb and shoulder injuries are not quite the same thing.  One of the problems is Rose doesn't seem to be particularly bright and his advisors and/or family have handled the whole situation poorly, especially some of his comments to the press.

What speaks volumes is that through all of this there have not been any rumblings from the locker room of players and/or coaches questioning Rose.  No discord whatsoever to speak of.  The Bulls will not go to the finals and win a title without him.

If Rose is still sitting out come playoff time due to questionable injuries or circumstances then a lot of this talk will have been proven right.  I'm pretty sure it was more than a cold that caused him to miss the last two.   

I haven't been through 2 serious knee injuries and the recovery but that was Rose's first and he had been cleared to play and had been playing at practice for months. I have been through ankle surgery and could not wait to be cleared to play and hated it when my coach wouldn't play me right away because I was still favoring my left leg. All that sitting out and then he comes back and injures the other knee anyways.

I just hope he doesn't have an itch in his throat going into game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the Cavs. Would prefer not to see LeBron back in the Finals.

[MUDPT]

I haven't been through 2 serious knee injuries and the recovery but that was Rose's first and he had been cleared to play and had been playing at practice for months. I have been through ankle surgery and could not wait to be cleared to play and hated it when my coach wouldn't play me right away because I was still favoring my left leg. All that sitting out and then he comes back and injures the other knee anyways.

I just hope he doesn't have an itch in his throat going into game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the Cavs. Would prefer not to see LeBron back in the Finals.

I apologize I get so up in arms about this, but there is very few times in any medical case that answers are black or white. There is always gray.  Just because so and so came back in 6 months, doesn't mean the next guy can too.  With ACL re-construction, there are different surgeons, different grafts, different rehab. styles.  The injuries can be different too, some have meniscal tears, some have bone bruises, everything is different.  I like the Bulls, but they weren't beating the Heat that series anyway.  And Rose came out 5 months later before the meniscal tear and was pretty rusty.  I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten the Bulls past the Heat and he felt he wasn't ready, so who cares?

He was practicing and reportedly at a high level.  He just didn't want to play...or feel that he could play...whatever.

Look, it was obviously ultimately his decision.  But I can't blame Bulls fans for being pissed that he decided not to after being cleared.  Which meant being done with rehab too ....  which makes this earlier statement of yours was completely wrong: "You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play?  They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft.  And then they say is what does your rehab person say?  You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play."

Here is a typical timeline:
Surgery
Rehab.
6 months after? (again no absolutes in medicine), does some functional testing (by rehab, not physician) to see where he is at (I could break this down more, but don't want to bore everyone)
Once functional testing is ~85% of the opposite side, the doctor then usually gives the okay to return to play (again this varies greatly on a lot of different things, including the 85% thing)
I've worked with a higher level patient in the past who was cleared in 5 months, we just had someone cleared in 11 months. It all depends on many, many different factors. 
I don't remember if Dr. Cole actually came out and said he was medically able to play.  That could have been a media report from somewhere and if someone could find it, I would appreciate it.  For an NBA athlete, rehab is not over when they are medically able to play.  One of the last basketball players we rehabbed, we had to find someone who could play him one on one, but also was smart enough to not injure him again.  It's a fine line. 

Here's an article from the best known Orthopedics/ Sports Physical Therapy journal. http://www.jospt.org/doi/abs/10.2519/jospt.2012.4077#.VJefzLgC0JA  One of three major things of athletes not returning to their sport one year post op, is periods of instability.  If Rose was still having those, he's just like every other person that hasn't returned to sports.  The doctors could medically clear him, at that point there is nothing else they could do surgically.  His ROM, graft, strength could all be great, but if he lacks the ability to feel that his joint his stable, than he deserves the right to say he doesn't want to play.

[MU82]

Add Demarcus Cousins to the UK list of players over 16 ppg.  Bledsoe just below for the moment at 15.8.

Cousins, Davis and Wall vs. Jimmy, Wade and Wes?

Rebounding and interior play vs. perimeter play and quickness.

Marquette 100, Mildcats 2, my friends.

[Benny B]

Seriously, I think the FBI, CIA, NSA and Homeland Security need to team up to provide 24/7 security and surveillance for a three mile radius around JFB.  A rogue weapons manufacturer needs only to get his hands on JFB's DNA to unlock the secret to an invincible super weapon that continuously learns, can adapt to any environment and still be one of the top five defenders in the league. 

We're talking some scary-ass sh|t along the lines of what would spawn from a rendezvous consisting of the Decepticons, sentinels, T-X, the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, WOPR, and Barry White.

[🏀]

Seriously, I think the FBI, CIA, NSA and Homeland Security need to team up to provide 24/7 security and surveillance for a three mile radius around JFB.  A rogue weapons manufacturer needs only to get his hands on JFB's DNA to unlock the secret to an invincible super weapon that continuously learns, can adapt to any environment and still be one of the top five defenders in the league. 

We're talking some scary-ass sh|t along the lines of what would spawn from a rendezvous consisting of the Decepticons, sentinels, T-X, the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, WOPR, and Barry White.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Cousins, Davis and Wall vs. Jimmy, Wade and Wes?

Rebounding and interior play vs. perimeter play and quickness.

Marquette 100, Mildcats 2, my friends.

That would be an unbelievable 3 vs. 3 matchup. I would pay money to see that.

[GGGG]

I don't remember if Dr. Cole actually came out and said he was medically able to play.  That could have been a media report from somewhere and if someone could find it, I would appreciate it.  For an NBA athlete, rehab is not over when they are medically able to play.  One of the last basketball players we rehabbed, we had to find someone who could play him one on one, but also was smart enough to not injure him again.  It's a fine line. 

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/4/24/4257684/derrick-rose-injury-return-chicago-bulls-nba-playoffs-2013

"Rose started taking full contact in practice on Jan. 31. On March 9, ESPN Chicago reported doctors had cleared him to return to games."

[PGsHeroes32]

Cousins, Davis and Wall vs. Jimmy, Wade and Wes?

Rebounding and interior play vs. perimeter play and quickness.

Marquette 100, Mildcats 2, my friends.

Dwade only 1 not currently in his "prime" or early years. If we got prime dwade it would be real fun.

Davis and Cousins would have so much size advantage but in a 3 on 3 game the perimeter play and quickness would be big too. Even though way undersized all 3 can guard big. All 3 are real good at drawing contact too(Wes not as much this year).

[bamamarquettefan]

They debated back and forth tonight on whether he deserved a max contract and all agreed he is an all star.  

Jimmy's line tonight - 35 points, 11 of 21 from the floor with four 3-pointers, five rebounds, seven assists and four steals in 45 minutes of play.  (not to mention, 9-10 from the line)

He will definitely get a max contract IMO.

I just can't believe that the kid we saw start to get a few minutes after Dominic was injured is now the subject of a "just an all-star or a max deal" player.

For the record though, one of the first things that got me into conversations with NBA teams looking at Value Add was when right after Lazar was picked I told them Jimmy was actually a much better NBA prospect. His junior year they were both in the top 1%, but Jimmy was 5th in Value Add and LAzar was 34th. Some of the NBA INDICATORS that Rob Lowe calculated in addition to Value Add showed Jimmy was actually a much better prospect. When Jimmy wasn't even on the draft board one even jokingly asked me if I would stop writing about him because they were worried he was going to shoot up too high in the draft! in 2010, I had Jimmy calculated with a Value Add of 7.79 and Lazar with 6.49.

Season Rank   Player   Team   Conf   Ht   Class   Off   Def   PG Per   Value Add   Year   NBA Position
5   Butler, Jimmy   Marquette   BE   6-06   3 Jr   6.85   -1.35   0.00   7.79   2010   SF NBA
34   Hayward, Lazar   Marquette   BE   6-06   4 Sr   3.82   -3.01   0.00   6.49   2010   SF NBA

[Eldon]

Tonight in 44 minutes

JFB: 27 points, 11-11 FT, 11reb, 4ast, 1stl, and 5blks (FIVE!!) in a Bulls win over Toronto (with only one TO and one PF, to boot)

Wow, just wow.

[JWags85]

Tonight in 44 minutes

JFB: 27 points, 11-11 FT, 11reb, 4ast, 1stl, and 5blks (FIVE!!) in a Bulls win over Toronto (with only one TO and one PF, to boot)

Wow, just wow.

His offensive game to start the 1Q was outrageous.  Fearless attacking the rim, SUPER quick, and popping out for 3.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Does TNT know that he's Jimmy F'n Butler?

[AZWarrior]

Does TNT know that he's Jimmy F'n Butler?

They do now.   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Chicago Trib poll on who has been the best player on the Bulls so far this year.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-who-has-been-the-best-player-on-the-bulls-so-far-20141223-htmlstory.html

JFB with 88% of the vote so far

[rocket surgeon]

haven't been following real close yet, but has jimmy maintained his humility?  is he the same quiet, unassuming guy we all knew and loved? 

[StillWarriors]

haven't been following real close yet, but has jimmy maintained his humility?  is he the same quiet, unassuming guy we all knew and loved? 

From what I have seen, yes. Very confident now in terms of his game, but always quick to compliment and give credit for his success to his teammates. Also has shown a pretty good sense of humor with the media. Still seems like low key Jimmy who happens to be one of the best players in the NBA right now.

[4everwarriors]

Does his mother still think he's ugly?

[wadesworld]

Does his mother still think he's ugly?

Don't know, but she does think you're ugly.

[MUDPT]

http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students  Enjoy.

Look closely at the picture.  I will personally donate 20 MU t-shirts to this next year, anyone else with me?

[wadesworld]

http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students  Enjoy.

Look closely at the picture.  I will personally donate 20 MU t-shirts to this next year, anyone else with me?

A Badger shirt in Chicago.  That's a pretty horrible combination if you ask me.

Also, Rose's muscle memory must be off, couldn't stand around that long and make an actual appearance.  At least he took the time to leave the kids with a nice video message.

[MU82]

Just happened to see the league stats: Jimmy F. Butler is the No. 10 scorer in the NBA! 

No matter how bullish (pun intended) any of us were on Jimmy's potential as a pro, I don't think anybody saw that coming -- including Jimmy himself.

If and when Rose gets fully healed (and I mean psychologically, too), it's not a stretch to say that Butler-Rose is every bit as good as Curry-Thompson or any other NBA backcourt. (And I'm not a Bulls fan.)

Crazy!

[wadesworld]

Just happened to see the league stats: Jimmy F. Butler is the No. 10 scorer in the NBA! 

No matter how bullish (pun intended) any of us were on Jimmy's potential as a pro, I don't think anybody saw that coming -- including Jimmy himself.

If and when Rose gets fully healed (and I mean psychologically, too), it's not a stretch to say that Butler-Rose is every bit as good as Curry-Thompson or any other NBA backcourt. (And I'm not a Bulls fan.)

Crazy!

Rose is healed. He's just soft.

[Benny B]

http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students  Enjoy.

Look closely at the picture.  I will personally donate 20 MU t-shirts to this next year, anyone else with me?

"Listen kid... Boardwalk is for fools.  You get the greens and the orange and you kick your brothers ass for wearing a sorry ass red t shirt like that.  And if he gives you any Shiite, you give your buddy Jimmy F Butler a call and I'll come over and whoop his butt myself."