TNT debate on Jimmy

[GGGG]

With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!

He's undersized.  I think he is in Europe.

[MerrittsMustache]

He's undersized.  I think he is in Europe.

He's also not as quick or athletic as Jimmy.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!

Speaking with the dead?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

To sign Jimmy to a max deal, the Bulls may end up having to move Taj ($8.25M cap hit) for some cheaper pieces and/or picks. They have Mirotic who will IMO end up as a better player than Taj anyway, plus he's 5 years younger.

The Bulls can match any offer to Butler and go over the cap to do so, without having to move someone like Gibson.  The question is will Reinsdorf actually spend the money.  As a Bulls fan they really made a mistake by not getting him signed prior to the season and I will be furious if they let him walk due to finances.  Hopefully it works out.

[wadesworld]

I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.

Dwyane Wade says not so fast.

[MUSF]

He's also not as quick or athletic as Jimmy.

He also talks to ghosts and what not.

[avid1010]

The Bulls can match any offer to Butler and go over the cap to do so, without having to move someone like Gibson.  The question is will Reinsdorf actually spend the money.  As a Bulls fan they really made a mistake by not getting him signed prior to the season and I will be furious if they let him walk due to finances.  Hopefully it works out.

i don't follow the nba much anymore, so i haven't kept up on salary caps, penalties, and contracts...when you say the bulls can match...
1. would they have to pay a tax for going over the salary cap?
2. if they match does jimmy have to stay put in chicago?

[MUSF]

I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.

True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.

Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.

[GGGG]

i don't follow the nba much anymore, so i haven't kept up on salary caps, penalties, and contracts...when you say the bulls can match...
1. would they have to pay a tax for going over the salary cap?
2. if they match does jimmy have to stay put in chicago?

1. No, there is a salary cap and a luxury tax threshold.  

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/07/09/2013-14-nba-salary-cap-figure-set-at-58-679-million/

2.  I don't think so.

[Sheriff]

This.  I was 'done' with Rose during the playoffs a couple of years ago when he had already been cleared by the doctors for 60 days but couldn't put on his uniform because his 'muscle memory' hadn't yet returned.  A flu bug went through the team and guys were blowing chunks into a garbage can along the bench and then re-entering the game to soldier on.  But Rose couldn't dress and spell them.  Jimmy was playing 48 minutes EVERY night.  Rose is a hairy wet cat.  Jimmy, a Warrior.

It used to be that Rose made everyone else play better.  Right now, Rose should be able to take advantage of Jimmy's play to enhance his own comeback but he really hasn't.  Jimmy has prospered regardless of whether Rose plays or not.

[ttheisen]

2. if they match does jimmy have to stay put in chicago?

Jimmy is a restricted Free Agent in 15/16, which I believe means that if Chicago matches, he does have to stay put with Chicago.  I am sure someone on the board knows definitively, but that is my understanding of RFA.

[wadesworld]

True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.

Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.

I don't see Butler getting 3 rings or being a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Wade have those rings and be a first ballot HOF.

Also, even this year Wade is still playing better.  Averaging slightly more points on better shooting percentages (outside of FT%), less steals but slightly more blocks, less rebounds but more assists.  Wade's PER is 24.00 to Butler's 21.88 (Wesley's is 15.97).  MU is well represented however you look at it.

[MerrittsMustache]

Jimmy is a restricted Free Agent in 15/16, which I believe means that if Chicago matches, he does have to stay put with Chicago.  I am sure someone on the board knows definitively, but that is my understanding of RFA.

In order to be a "restricted" free agent, the player's team must make a qualifying offer, which is typically a 1-year deal at a discount price (exact amount has to do with the player's draft position, IIRC). The RFA can sign the qualifying offer or he can sign an offer sheet with any other team. If he signs an offer sheet, his current team then has 72 hours to match the offer (i.e. bring him back for the years/cash on the offer sheet), let him go, or attempt to work out a sign-and-trade with the team whose offer the player signed.

[swoopem]

True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.

Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.

A few of us did have that argument at the beginning of the season http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44992.0

[LloydsLegs]

Also mentioned on the telecast that Wesley may be the third (after Klay and Jimmy) best two-way at the 2 spot.

How cool is it for MU to have three of the best 2 guards in the league?  DWade, Wesley and Jimmy are top 5 or so when considering all around play.

[Galway Eagle]

With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!

Playing in a league with a bunch of ghosts. He's breaking barriers though as he's the first living person to play in it.

[4everwarriors]

If he doesn't who does?  What dozen players who are going to be free agents would you rather have to justify not giving him a max deal?

If Jimmy woulda played for Crean instead of Buzz, a max deal is guaranteed 'cause of Crean's  connections and such, aina?

[PGsHeroes32]

I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.

I wouldn't count out Dwyane yet. His team is pure garbage but his state are niiiiiiiiiiice

[4everwarriors]

How did Jimmy Butler get this good?

Crean made him what he is today.

[Lennys Tap]

True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.

No doubt, would never say otherwise.

[4everwarriors]

With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!

He's got a gig talkin' full time to the dead, hey?

[PGsHeroes32]

True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.

Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.

Haha this didn't need mentioning.

Wade's career PPG is 24.3

As good as Jimmy is becoming idk that he is ever going to average 24 in a season and he definitely isn't going to put up Dwade prime numbers.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't see Butler getting 3 rings or being a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Wade have those rings and be a first ballot HOF.

Also, even this year Wade is still playing better.  Averaging slightly more points on better shooting percentages (outside of FT%), less steals but slightly more blocks, less rebounds but more assists.  Wade's PER is 24.00 to Butler's 21.88 (Wesley's is 15.97).  MU is well represented however you look at it.

1.I don't see Butler's career as better either. For now anyway that would be ridiculous.

2. I don't know how well PER measures a player's defensive ability, but if it has Wade 2014/15>JFB 2014/15 my guess is not very well. Dwyane will be on the All Star team for previous greatness. Jimmy for what he is today.

[MU82]

Haha this didn't need mentioning.

Wade's career PPG is 24.3

As good as Jimmy is becoming idk that he is ever going to average 24 in a season and he definitely isn't going to put up Dwade prime numbers.

Exactly.

Wade is the gold standard for NBA 2G from Marquette. Butler has a LOOOONG way to go to come close to accomplishing all Wade has. Wade absolutely carried a team to a championship, and was the second-best player on a team that went to 4 straight NBA Finals, with two more titles. He personally recruited the best player in the game to join him in that latter situation, accepting less money to do so. And then there are his stats, which are superior to any MU 2G in NBA history by a wide margin.

Yes, Butler is only in his fourth season. But by the time Wade had finished three seasons, he was a champion, a Finals MVP and a two-time All-Star who had started 50 playoff games.

Love me some JFB, but at this point in their careers, it would be like comparing DeMarcus Cousins to the Mailman. Thankfully, I don't really see folks doing this, despite the temptation to love the shiny, new toy more than the older, somewhat battered toy.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I think what the previous poster meant was 25 year old Jimmy Butler is better than 32 year old Dwyane Wade.  Clearly Wade's career is light years better than Butler's.  Looking at just this season I'd give Jimmy a slight edge over Dwyane mostly due to better health and little bit due to more consistent defense.  But it's razor thin.