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Author Topic: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...  (Read 15978 times)

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2014, 09:53:15 PM »
Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.


Yes Luke could very well be better than OXtule (together or seperate) but let's not pretend we have been missing decent play at the 5 for many years. 

* Gardner was one of the best scoring big men in the BE
* Three years ago (second S16 season) Otule played so well in the second half of the year he almost single-handily carried us into the second week of the tourney.  At that time many here were wondering where Otule would be drafted.   

Just trying to stop the revisionist history/collective amnesia

He was hurt in like the 8th game our 2nd S16 year. I don't really remember that the year before. I remember Junior turning it on.

MUSF

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2014, 10:00:07 PM »
I love Chris and wish we still had him for a 7th year. But by Aircraft Carrier I mean a 20 point 10 rebound kind of guy big man who is the focus of the opposition.

I highly doubt Luke will ever live up to your definition of "Aircraft Carrier" either.  Seriously, do you know how rare a player averaging 20 and 10 actually is?

 Luke's game against ASU would have been below average if 20 and 10 was the standard.


TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2014, 10:06:17 PM »
Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.


Yes Luke could very well be better than OXtule (together or seperate) but let's not pretend we have been missing decent play at the 5 for many years. 

* Gardner was one of the best scoring big men in the BE
* Three years ago (second S16 season) Otule played so well in the second half of the year he almost single-handily carried us into the second week of the tourney.  At that time many here were wondering where Otule would be drafted.   

Just trying to stop the revisionist history/collective amnesia

No revisionist history here. Gardner was 6"8, Luke is 6"11, he doesn't have the same size as Luke. Ergo, the comment was correct.

Otule was only effective on one side of the ball. I loved the guy but he NEVER had a game like Fischer had against Arizona State. And that was Luke's debut for Marquette.

And as I recall ONE poster on here thought Otule was getting drafted. The rest of us laughed at him.
TAMU

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RJax55

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2014, 10:18:29 PM »
Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.


Yes Luke could very well be better than OXtule (together or seperate) but let's not pretend we have been missing decent play at the 5 for many years. 

* Gardner was one of the best scoring big men in the BE
* Three years ago (second S16 season) Otule played so well in the second half of the year he almost single-handily carried us into the second week of the tourney.  At that time many here were wondering where Otule would be drafted.   

Just trying to stop the revisionist history/collective amnesia

Some career highs for Chris Otule:

Points: 19 vs. Longwood (12/4/10)
Rebounds: 11 vs. Davidson (3/21/13)
Blocks: 4 vs. USF (1/28/13)

So, in his first game, Luke beat, tied and just missed Otule's career high marks. I realize that it's easy to get caught up in hyperbole, but the truth is that MU has not seen a two-way performance of that caliber from a big in a long time.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2014, 10:21:09 PM »
That performance on Tuesday was the one I waited 6 years for Otule to have.   Never happened.  Not Once. 

Otule
Nov 20, 2010, 15 points, 8 rebs agaisnt South Dakota (and Jake Thomas)
Nov 27, 2010, 19 points, 5 rebs against Longwood
Feb 27, 2011, 16 points, 6 rebs, 4 blks against Providence
March 3, 2013, 16 points, 4 rebs against #21 ND
redshirt 2011/2012
March 21, 2013, 11 points and 11 rebs against Davidson
Nov 21, 2013, 16 points, 7 rebs against NH
Nov 12, 2103 17 points and 6 against Grambling
Dec 7, 2013 11 points and 9 rebs against #8 Wisconsin


Also in 2010/2011 - Otule's 55 blocks was the most by an MU player in a single-season since Faisal Abraham (84) in 1996-97.

Yes Luke had 19 points, 9 rebs and 5 blks, which is better than all of Otule's game, but only marginally so.  So Otule came very close to that performance many times, you just elected to not remember them as a way to further hype Luke.

But if you think that Luke's stat line against ASU will be a typical game the rest of the way, then I will tell you he's going to a lottery pick next summer and well never know how he would have played with Ellenson.

So, let's stop pretending we have been undersized at the 5 since Robert Jackson to promote Luke.

We had a serviceable 5 for many years with OXtule, now Luke could be taking that position to the next level.


Tugg Speedman

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2014, 10:25:39 PM »
I highly doubt Luke will ever live up to your definition of "Aircraft Carrier" either.  Seriously, do you know how rare a player averaging 20 and 10 actually is?

 Luke's game against ASU would have been below average if 20 and 10 was the standard.

+1

If any of you guys think Luke will go through the BE schedule (four ranked teams, 3 other getting votes) as a "20/10 guy" then enjoy the next 15 games because he's coming out and will be a lottery pick next summer.  

He'll also be BE POY and get consideration for the Wooden award.

And MU is going to the NCAA Tourney

So understand the impossible standard you just set up.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 10:27:35 PM by Heisenberg »

MU82

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2014, 10:26:12 PM »
Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.


Yes Luke could very well be better than OXtule (together or seperate) but let's not pretend we have been missing decent play at the 5 for many years. 

* Gardner was one of the best scoring big men in the BE
* Three years ago (second S16 season) Otule played so well in the second half of the year he almost single-handily carried us into the second week of the tourney.  At that time many here were wondering where Otule would be drafted.   

Just trying to stop the revisionist history/collective amnesia

One or two dopes compared Otule to Roy Hibbert and that means "we were wondering where Otule would be drafted? Please.

Luke defended the rim more Tuesday than Gardner did in 4 years. And Luke had more smooth post moves around the basket Tuesday than Otule did in 6 years.

Obviously, we don't know how good Luke will turn out to be yet. He has played one game for the Warriors. But in that one game ... wow!
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Tugg Speedman

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2014, 10:29:09 PM »
One or two dopes compared Otule to Roy Hibbert and that means "we were wondering where Otule would be drafted? Please.

Luke defended the rim more Tuesday than Gardner did in 4 years. And Luke had more smooth post moves around the basket Tuesday than Otule did in 6 years.

Obviously, we don't know how good Luke will turn out to be yet. He has played one game for the Warriors. But in that one game ... wow!

I love Luke as much as everyone else.

I'm pushing back at the revisionist history that says OXtule were crap and did nothing.  That is what is being suggested.

MU82

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2014, 10:38:46 PM »
I love Luke as much as everyone else.

I'm pushing back at the revisionist history that says OXtule were crap and did nothing.  That is what is being suggested.

Fair enough. I liked Otule and I also liked Gardner. I didn't like them on the court together, and each frustrated me at times. But we had very nice success as a team during most of their time as Warriors.

Still, I think we can all admit that nobody who knows anything about basketball actually thought Otule had even a 1% chance of playing in the NBA. And Gardner's chances were only slightly better. Otule was a decent college role player; Gardner, when motivated, was a very good offensive big -- especially for a 6-8 guy who couldn't dunk!
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muhoops1

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2014, 10:41:56 PM »
Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.


Yes Luke could very well be better than OXtule (together or seperate) but let's not pretend we have been missing decent play at the 5 for many years. 

* Gardner was one of the best scoring big men in the BE
* Three years ago (second S16 season) Otule played so well in the second half of the year he almost single-handily carried us into the second week of the tourney.  At that time many here were wondering where Otule would be drafted.   

Just trying to stop the revisionist history/collective amnesia

O'Tule wasn't skilled enough offensively to be considered a dominate presence in the middle.  DeVante was a unique player who belied his lack of height and like Barkley used his prodigious ass and nimble feet to score inside.  Luke has multiple skills, post moves, good hands, good vision and the height to be considered an "Aircraft Carrier".

What impressed me most was his ability to absorb contact and not end up 15' from the hoop.  He was stronger than I expected and went strong to the hole, scored with both hands and displayed a soft, mid range jumper.  Albeit against mediocre competition, but still he looked to be in midseason form.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2014, 11:09:38 PM »
Otule
Nov 20, 2010, 15 points, 8 rebs agaisnt South Dakota (and Jake Thomas)
Nov 27, 2010, 19 points, 5 rebs against Longwood
Feb 27, 2011, 16 points, 6 rebs, 4 blks against Providence
March 3, 2013, 16 points, 4 rebs against #21 ND
redshirt 2011/2012
March 21, 2013, 11 points and 11 rebs against Davidson
Nov 21, 2013, 16 points, 7 rebs against NH
Nov 12, 2103 17 points and 6 against Grambling
Dec 7, 2013 11 points and 9 rebs against #8 Wisconsin


Also in 2010/2011 - Otule's 55 blocks was the most by an MU player in a single-season since Faisal Abraham (84) in 1996-97.

Yes Luke had 19 points, 9 rebs and 5 blks, which is better than all of Otule's game, but only marginally so.  So Otule came very close to that performance many times, you just elected to not remember them as a way to further hype Luke.

But if you think that Luke's stat line against ASU will be a typical game the rest of the way, then I will tell you he's going to a lottery pick next summer and well never know how he would have played with Ellenson.

So, let's stop pretending we have been undersized at the 5 since Robert Jackson to promote Luke.

We had a serviceable 5 for many years with OXtule, now Luke could be taking that position to the next level.



So you just proved that Luke, in his first game as Warrior, had a game that was statistically better than any game Otule had in six years in the uniform?

That is why people are saying we haven't had a player like this before. No one is saying Otule was bad. No one is saying Gardner was bad. They are saying that Fischer had a helluva game. And if he continues to have performances even close to this level, he will be the best center we have had in awhile.
TAMU

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PGsHeroes32

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2014, 11:50:48 PM »
Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.


Yes Luke could very well be better than OXtule (together or seperate) but let's not pretend we have been missing decent play at the 5 for many years.  

* Gardner was one of the best scoring big men in the BE
* Three years ago (second S16 season) Otule played so well in the second half of the year he almost single-handily carried us into the second week of the tourney.  At that time many here were wondering where Otule would be drafted.
Just trying to stop the revisionist history/collective amnesia


Try he didn't even play in the second half of the year...lol 

Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Texas Western

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 11:52:35 PM »
So you just proved that Luke, in his first game as Warrior, had a game that was statistically better than any game Otule had in six years in the uniform?

That is why people are saying we haven't had a player like this before. No one is saying Otule was bad. No one is saying Gardner was bad. They are saying that Fischer had a helluva game. And if he continues to have performances even close to this level, he will be the best center we have had in awhile.
Ditto.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 11:54:39 PM »
Otule
Nov 20, 2010, 15 points, 8 rebs agaisnt South Dakota (and Jake Thomas)
Nov 27, 2010, 19 points, 5 rebs against Longwood
Feb 27, 2011, 16 points, 6 rebs, 4 blks against Providence
March 3, 2013, 16 points, 4 rebs against #21 ND
redshirt 2011/2012
March 21, 2013, 11 points and 11 rebs against Davidson
Nov 21, 2013, 16 points, 7 rebs against NH
Nov 12, 2103 17 points and 6 against Grambling
Dec 7, 2013 11 points and 9 rebs against #8 Wisconsin


Also in 2010/2011 - Otule's 55 blocks was the most by an MU player in a single-season since Faisal Abraham (84) in 1996-97.

Yes Luke had 19 points, 9 rebs and 5 blks, which is better than all of Otule's game, but only marginally so.  So Otule came very close to that performance many times, you just elected to not remember them as a way to further hype Luke.

But if you think that Luke's stat line against ASU will be a typical game the rest of the way, then I will tell you he's going to a lottery pick next summer and well never know how he would have played with Ellenson.

So, let's stop pretending we have been undersized at the 5 since Robert Jackson to promote Luke.

We had a serviceable 5 for many years with OXtule, now Luke could be taking that position to the next level.



While, ASU is no world beater...they are sure as sh it better than South Dakota, Longwood, that particular Providence team, NH and Grambling(lol on this one).

And you still completely missed the point of their posts.

I'll break it down. Luke has size and hands. Ox had hands he didn't have center size.

Luke is aircraft carrier center. Otule could once in a blue moon(usually against a garbage team) score double figures and get more than 5 rebounds in a game. We havn't had a player with Luke's capability and talent to do it regularly in a long time.

Hopefully you are now up to speed on the logic of the rest of the board.

Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

slingkong

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2014, 11:50:56 AM »
Yes, this will not help Derrick as much as some others.   He is going to have to move the ball quickly.

This is not now and has never been a strength of his. Hopefully, Wojo and the other ex-PG coaches will coach him up on rapid ball movement. But if the post is doubled, it's obviously going to be Derrick's defender in many (or most) instances. That does not bode well for the MU offense.

brandx

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2014, 12:05:51 PM »
This is not now and has never been a strength of his. Hopefully, Wojo and the other ex-PG coaches will coach him up on rapid ball movement. But if the post is doubled, it's obviously going to be Derrick's defender in many (or most) instances. That does not bode well for the MU offense.


But on the good side of the ledger, we saw more Carlino, Duane, and JJJ together on the floor against ASU than we have previously. Derek will be in there whenever one of those three are not in the game, but as long as those three work hard on the defensive end, I think they will each get 30 min a game.

slingkong

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2014, 12:08:19 PM »
But on the good side of the ledger, we saw more Carlino, Duane, and JJJ together on the floor against ASU than we have previously. Derek will be in there whenever one of those three are not in the game, but as long as those three work hard on the defensive end, I think they will each get 30 min a game.

Agreed and I think that's what most here hoped for, that those other three would enable more offense-defense substitution patterns.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2014, 03:25:47 PM »
While, ASU is no world beater...they are sure as sh it better than South Dakota, Longwood, that particular Providence team, NH and Grambling(lol on this one).

And you still completely missed the point of their posts.

I'll break it down. Luke has size and hands. Ox had hands he didn't have center size.

Luke is aircraft carrier center. Otule could once in a blue moon(usually against a garbage team) score double figures and get more than 5 rebounds in a game. We havn't had a player with Luke's capability and talent to do it regularly in a long time.

Hopefully you are now up to speed on the logic of the rest of the board.

Actually you miss the point of my posts.  I'm agreeing with everyone that Luke is the best post player we have seen since Jackson, or maybe Jim Mac (time will tell).  But the wording of these comments are a shot at OXtule implying they were not any good.

That performance on Tuesday was the one I waited 6 years for Otule to have.   Never happened.  Not Once.  

"waited 6 years" ... "Never happened" ... "Not Once"  

To say the same thing three times in 15 words is to say you thought Otule stunk.  He was a serviceable "5" for many years.  Again, you don't have to praise Luke by bashing Otule.

Luke's the first guy with that size and decent hands we've had in a while

He's not "the first guy"  Gardner had decent hands and was big.  He just has the ability to be better, much better.

I think Luke is a true Aircraft Carrier type center, which we haven't had in a long time.

I realize their is no accepted definition of "aircraft carrier" as it changes from post to post.  I thought it meant a big guy that played.  Otule was actually bigger than Luke.

Don't go off on some mind-numbing post on how good Luke is.  Because whatever you write I agree with.  Instead stop praising Luke by bashing OXtule ... they were not that bad.

mikekinsellaMVP

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2014, 03:42:59 PM »
Heisenberg-

Please show us the posts where people explicitly called Davante or Otule bad.

Not mentioning Gardner as an "aircraft carrier" because he's a short 5 isn't revisionist history.  Nor is omitting Chris because his offensive skill set was limited.

We had a serviceable 5 for many years with OXtule, now Luke could be taking that position to the next level.

This is without a doubt the most accurate thing you've said.

I'm pushing back at the revisionist history that says OXtule were crap and did nothing.  That is what is being suggested.

...and this is you taking enormous liberties with what wasn't said.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2014, 03:50:45 PM »
Heisenberg-

Please show us the posts where people explicitly called Davante or Otule bad.

Not mentioning Gardner as an "aircraft carrier" because he's a short 5 isn't revisionist history.  Nor is omitting Chris because his offensive skill set was limited.

This is without a doubt the most accurate thing you've said.

...and this is you taking enormous liberties with what wasn't said.

So, you don't understand intent in speech.  The intent, and maybe it was unintentional, was to pump up Luke by knocking down OXtule.  

I realized you staked out a position so you elect to not see the following as a slap at Otule

That performance on Tuesday was the one I waited 6 years for Otule to have.   Never happened.  Not Once.  

Explicit, no ... but everyone knows what was meant here.  You're just being argumentative.

BTW, "serviceable" was good enough for S16, S16 and E8.  So "serviceable" does not mean bad.  You can win with "serviceable"
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 03:54:45 PM by Heisenberg »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2014, 04:18:08 PM »
Hberg,

You are the only one who is interpreting the intent of these posts as oxtule bashing. Its completely valid for you to interpret it that way, and I'm sorry if any of the things I said came off as oxtule bashing, but from my perspective everything said has been positive.

The size and decent hands comment is not a dig at Gardner. He was 6"8. That is a significant difference from Luke's 6"11.

The waiting 6 years performance is true! You yourself posted Otule's highlights and Luke's was better than every one of Otule's. Not a dig at Otule, just a fact.

The aircraft carrier comment is ambiguous because there is no definition of an "aircraft carrier" player. But what I think was intended is a player with typical center size who is solid on both sides of the ball. Again, this is a true statement.
TAMU

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mikekinsellaMVP

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2014, 04:20:39 PM »
So, you don't understand intent in speech.  The intent, and maybe it was unintentional, was to pump up Luke by knocking down OXtule.  

I realized you staked out a position so you elect to not see the following as a slap at Otule

That performance on Tuesday was the one I waited 6 years for Otule to have.   Never happened.  Not Once.  

Explicit, no ... but everyone knows what was meant here.  You're just being argumentative.

BTW, "serviceable" was good enough for S16, S16 and E8.  So "serviceable" does not mean bad.  You can win with "serviceable"


Sigh.  I really shouldn't take the bait.

I will simply say this.  By its definition and by the very structure of the words, intent cannot be unintentional.  (Go look up what a "prefix" does.)  I think you are confusing intend with imply.  Speaking for myself, it was never my intent to imply those guys were bad, though I think that is a matter of interpretation.  Heck, you even needed to qualify your use of "serviceable" knowing it could be interpreted as anything from "good" to a body just filling space.

As to the argumentative remark...  Well, that one's just plain funny.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 05:49:46 PM by mikekinsellaMVP »

brandx

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Re: Now That The "Luke Fischer Secret" Is Out ...
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2014, 04:28:43 PM »
So, you don't understand intent in speech.  The intent, and maybe it was unintentional, was to pump up Luke by knocking down OXtule.  



Part of what made Luke's debut so impressive compared to OXtule is that you had to use two guys to compare him too.

Luke brought impressive play at both ends of the floor in one body - with OXtule - who rarely played together - it was one end of the floor or the other.

On the offensive end, where Davante was a very good player, Luke showed a much more versatile game. And on the defensive end, Luke played better in his 1st game than OX ever did in his decades of play for us.

 

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