When do the players take ownership?????

[duanewade]

Wojo has improved with his rotations in getting his best players the most playing time. 

He's tried a zone.  He's sped up the tempo a little.  He's got Burton understanding what he has to do to stay on the court.  His point guards are having big games finally.

HOWEVER at what point do the players start to take ownership of the program too?

*Every single player on MSU last night shot at or over 50% from the field.....unheard of!  Almost all of them where from the outside so lose the lame "we have no size right now argument" for every malady this team shows.  At what point do the players pick up the slack and get on each other for all the breakdowns?  Where is a captain telling the team to wake the F up if Valentine gets one more wide open look?

*How many near steals/rebounds does MU lose only to have MSU then capitalize on them with their own two points before the players get as mad as the fans?  I counted five lost/fumbled steals that MSU then scored 2 points on....that's 5 four point swings and was essentially the difference in the game.  At what point do the players competitive instincts kick and demand more of themselves? 

**Most of our team are 2nd tier stud recruit sophomores that should be making huge steps up now as the tier 1 stud freshmen from last year in their class are now in the NBA.  Kentucky plays all freshmen every year and their players play with more basketball IQ than MU does with 18 months of Div. I coaching/experience. 

***In summary players need to stop second guessing themselves and play with more conviction and confidence.  The first couple game jitters should be over now and I expect to see the players start to realize their potential which they've only shown small glimpses of thus far.  Players are now learning what to expect from rotation, roles, etc.  You have a young coach so it's up to the players to have two way lines of communication on what they think is holding them back if anything from taking the next step.  Finally players need to police themselves too.  If you conditioning is an issue with the bad defense then run voluntarily after practice! 

****There is no reason why this team should be playing in the big dance in March as talent is not the issue!!  I expect a MU victory over Tennessee tomorrow!!!

[GGGG]

Lots of cliches in this here post.

[jesmu84]

Pretty early for drunk ramblings

[Wojo'sMojo]

I think Brent stunted the growth of our freshman last year, so I am thinking of this as their freshman year now.

[NotBuzzWilliams]

[GGGG]

I think Brent stunted the growth of our freshman last year, so I am thinking of this as their freshman year now.

Of course you do.

[Texas Western]

Wojo has improved with his rotations in getting his best players the most playing time. 

He's tried a zone.  He's sped up the tempo a little.  He's got Burton understanding what he has to do to stay on the court.  His point guards are having big games finally.

HOWEVER at what point do the players start to take ownership of the program too?

*Every single player on MSU last night shot at or over 50% from the field.....unheard of!  Almost all of them where from the outside so lose the lame "we have no size right now argument" for every malady this team shows.  At what point do the players pick up the slack and get on each other for all the breakdowns?  Where is a captain telling the team to wake the F up if Valentine gets one more wide open look?

*How many near steals/rebounds does MU lose only to have MSU then capitalize on them with their own two points before the players get as mad as the fans?  I counted five lost/fumbled steals that MSU then scored 2 points on....that's 5 four point swings and was essentially the difference in the game.  At what point do the players competitive instincts kick and demand more of themselves? 

**Most of our team are 2nd tier stud recruit sophomores that should be making huge steps up now as the tier 1 stud freshmen from last year in their class are now in the NBA.  Kentucky plays all freshmen every year and their players play with more basketball IQ than MU does with 18 months of Div. I coaching/experience. 

***In summary players need to stop second guessing themselves and play with more conviction and confidence.  The first couple game jitters should be over now and I expect to see the players start to realize their potential which they've only shown small glimpses of thus far.  Players are now learning what to expect from rotation, roles, etc.  You have a young coach so it's up to the players to have two way lines of communication on what they think is holding them back if anything from taking the next step.  Finally players need to police themselves too.  If you conditioning is an issue with the bad defense then run voluntarily after practice! 

****There is no reason why this team should be playing in the big dance in March as talent is not the issue!!  I expect a MU victory over Tennessee tomorrow!!!

I think you make a good point here. My sense is we are starting to see the beginnings of players taking responsibility. Each of the key players is embracing what Wojo and staff are saying. It is a work in progress .

[Wojo'sMojo]

Of course you do.

No need for your snide remarks Mr. Muscoop.

[GGGG]

No need for your snide remarks Mr. Muscoop.

I'll stop making snide remarks when you start saying something substantive Mr. Fanboi.

[Wojo'sMojo]

I'll stop making snide remarks when you start saying something substantive Mr. Fanboi.

Lol, whatever you say. You should change your name to The Sultan of Scoop Stalking. I swear you must read everything 3 times and spend 18 hours a day on here. Did you go to counseling when you left this board?

[tower912]

IMO, a case can be made that the purported leaders from last year's team never assumed ownership.   This year's team seems much farther along in that regard.   

[Benny B]

Lol, whatever you say. You should change your name to The Sultan of Scoop Stalking. I swear you must read everything 3 times and spend 18 hours a day on here. Did you go to counseling when you left this board?

Most people need counseling after reading everything the first time on here.

[The Equalizer]

I'll stop making snide remarks when you start saying something substantive Mr. Fanboi.

It was substantive.

There's certainly an argument that can be made (and has been made many times here) that Buzz simply didn't do a good job developing incoming frosh. Whether it was overreliance on boot camps and strength training, an overly complex offensive and/or defense that took several years to master, or playing too many mind games with them--for whatever reason the best performing players during his coaching tenure at MU were those in situations where someone else took care of the transition from HS to college (players inherited from Crean, transfers from JUCO, transfers from other D1 programs).

Look, if you disagree, you're free to do so, but make your counter argument.  Make your case that Buzz did a great job prepping incoming frosh for their first year. Point out the numbers that that made the Big East rookie of the year team, or are current MU freshman record holders, or whatever facts you want to use to make your case.

[willie warrior]

Of course you do.

And of course you don't--slurp--slurp

[GGGG]

jhkjh

[GGGG]

And of course you don't--slurp--slurp

I never made a counter argument.

Reading.  Is.  Fundamental.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Very simple.

Anything Wojo's Mojo says = not substantive.

And everything you say is? Take a cold shower Scoop Stalker. You should look into giving yourself another mini hiatus, you seem like your about to come unhinged again 

[mattyv1908]

It was substantive.

There's certainly an argument that can be made (and has been made many times here) that Buzz simply didn't do a good job developing incoming frosh. Whether it was overreliance on boot camps and strength training, an overly complex offensive and/or defense that took several years to master, or playing too many mind games with them--for whatever reason the best performing players during his coaching tenure at MU were those in situations where someone else took care of the transition from HS to college (players inherited from Crean, transfers from JUCO, transfers from other D1 programs).

Look, if you disagree, you're free to do so, but make your counter argument.  Make your case that Buzz did a great job prepping incoming frosh for their first year. Point out the numbers that that made the Big East rookie of the year team, or are current MU freshman record holders, or whatever facts you want to use to make your case.

@Equalizer

I have a question concerning strength training and in particular Derrick Wilson as he to me seems like one of the most physically strong kids on our roster.

Watching Wilson shoot reminds me of being tired after working out the upper body and not waiting long enough to let my muscles recover before playing.  Shots come off either way too hard or barely hit the front of the rim as if the muscle fatigue is playing a part.  He doesn't have terrible form (maybe shoots past the apex of his jump) yet it's completely unpredictable where the ball is going.

Is it possible they're working these kids too hard in the weight room prior to games?

[BallBoy]

It was substantive.

There's certainly an argument that can be made (and has been made many times here) that Buzz simply didn't do a good job developing incoming frosh. Whether it was overreliance on boot camps and strength training, an overly complex offensive and/or defense that took several years to master, or playing too many mind games with them--for whatever reason the best performing players during his coaching tenure at MU were those in situations where someone else took care of the transition from HS to college (players inherited from Crean, transfers from JUCO, transfers from other D1 programs).

Look, if you disagree, you're free to do so, but make your counter argument.  Make your case that Buzz did a great job prepping incoming frosh for their first year. Point out the numbers that that made the Big East rookie of the year team, or are current MU freshman record holders, or whatever facts you want to use to make your case.

He relied heavily on jucos but Vander, Todd, And Jerome all played significant minutes their first yr. maymon left for other reasons but he had a very productive game against Wisconsin. I would add Junior to the list but he was hurt for his first year but his first full year he played significantly.

I didn't include Gardner because I don't think he had a great freshman he but developed.

The hard part judging Buzz in development is players were either up or out.   Butler, Jae, Buycks and DJO got better.  I would say multiple years with Buzz and their raw skills probably had a bigger impact then one juco season.  

I would say that of the players who left none of them have developed into superstars so you can't say that some other coach was able to develop them.  I also don't believe one year with Buzz would hold them back.

With last years freshman, they all got a good run.  Watching them this year they still make fundamental mistakes. It is my opinion that it takes players different lengths of time to develop. Some enter college as NBA ready other take a year or two.

It is going to be hard to judge Wojo this year is he only has one guy.   I like what I see with Cohen but he seems to be getting the same amount of PT as JJJ, and Deonte got.

[MU82]

**Most of our team are 2nd tier stud recruit sophomores that should be making huge steps up now as the tier 1 stud freshmen from last year in their class are now in the NBA.  Kentucky plays all freshmen every year and their players play with more basketball IQ than MU does with 18 months of Div. I coaching/experience. 

***In summary players need to stop second guessing themselves and play with more conviction and confidence.

****There is no reason why this team should be playing in the big dance in March as talent is not the issue!!  I expect a MU victory over Tennessee tomorrow!!!

** Kentucky has 1st tier players at multiple positions, players who come to college as men, not kids. There's a big difference between a top-100 player and a top-5 or top-10 player.

*** What proof do you have of our players second-guessing themselves?

**** Although we know what you were trying to say here, you should have used the ol' double-negative, as in: "There is no reason why this team shouldn't be playing in the big dance ... "

Of course, there are many reasons the team shouldn't be playing in the NCAAs: Too small, poor rebounding, not enough balance, rookie coach, not enough experienced talent, etc.

I would be shocked if we make the tourney, but I like your positive energy.

[reinko]

And everything you say is? Take a cold shower Scoop Stalker. You should look into giving yourself another mini hiatus, you seem like your about to come unhinged again 

Someone is just bitter they will lose a $500 bet to one by the name of Lenny.

[bilsu]

I think Brent stunted the growth of our freshman last year, so I am thinking of this as their freshman year now.

And Wojo is stunting Cohen!s development, because he is not getting playing time. Basically, frost freshmen are not physically ready to play against major college teams.

[BallBoy]

And Wojo is stunting Cohen!s development, because he is not getting playing time. Basically, frost freshmen are not physically ready to play against major college teams.

I think when Luke comes back it will cut deeper into Cohen's time. With Luke at the 5 we will see the following:

PG: Carlino and The Wilsons
SG: Carlino, Duane and JJJ
SF: Juan, JJJ, Burton
PF:  Taylor and Burton
C:  Fisher and Taylor

[MU82]

I think when Luke comes back it will cut deeper into Cohen's time. With Luke at the 5 we will see the following:

PG: Carlino and The Wilsons
SG: Carlino, Duane and JJJ
SF: Juan, JJJ, Burton
PF:  Taylor and Burton
C:  Fisher and Taylor

I think you are correct.

[MUScoop]

No need for your snide remarks Mr. Muscoop.

Ahem...there's only ONE Mr. MUScoop!