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Author Topic: John Dawson  (Read 90987 times)

Nevada233

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2014, 12:45:49 AM »
I think hes subliminally be encouraged to transfer. I mean is he that much worse than anyone else.

Pretty much........

Galway Eagle

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2014, 02:48:22 AM »
Awesome - in all the suckitude of last year, we beat Xavier - yeah!!!

Does it really matter?


Well to me it mattered for bragging rights with friends but I'm just pointing out that Ners has been going on and on about the Georgetown win being our best win last year and they were almost as bad as us but the Xavier and Providence wins were clearly better and Dawson didn't rock those games. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

GGGG

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2014, 06:53:51 AM »
Dear Wojo,

Thanks for your note.  I understand you are new to Marquette, and weren't closely following the program all of last season.  No doubt you've had time to observe guys in practice these last 6 weeks, much more than games.  No doubt, like the current PG you've chosen to play lots of minutes, you too in your career were coming off a poor Junior season, and were challenged by Coach K to step up your game, or lose your starting position.  You took the advice and stepped up and were named ACC Defensive Player of the Year, while also being a threat to shoot the basketball from distance and the FT line effectively.

Due to your own experience, and similarities to our current senior PG, it must be incredibly difficult for you to just relegate him to the bench due to your own personal experience.  Unfortunately, just because you did it doesn't mean someone else can or will.  As you learned against NJIT, you cannot have Derrick on the floor down the stretch, as if he gets fouled, there is a very good chance he will miss both critical free throws.  Coach, what was your career FT percentage?  3 point FG%?  Remind, as I feel you shot much better than 44% from the FT line and better than 10.3% from the 3 point line? (Which are Derrick's career percentages.)

Lastly Coach, everyone can understand how you want to give the benefit of the doubt to such a fine young man like Derrick.  We all think he is a great representative of the university and program, and made of incredible character and deserving of being a captain.  Derrick is a coach's dream in so many areas, yet at the end of the day he needs to produce on the court.  However, when you play him so much and continue to highlight his shortcomings, it causes great angst for many of our fans. We saw 975 minutes of play from Derrick last season in which we saw the opposition sag off of him 5 feet due to his 7% shooting from the 3 point stripe, and in the words of our former coach - were playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end. 

Given that you have a different roster composition this year with both Carlino and Duane eligible, as well as the guy who backed Derrick up as a freshman - John Dawson - who shot 28% from the 3 point line and 78% from the FT line -  along with coming up big in our best win of the season last year - the only game he was given more than 20 minutes all last season - many of us would like to see you turn the page and begin to develop the younger, more talented players on the roster for the future.

Thanks, and thank you for the great recruiting class you signed this fall.  Incredible.

Ners



This post is why no one takes you seriously.  Well...and this one.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45307.0

willie warrior

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2014, 07:33:06 AM »
Good call.   Better make sure the 'no dunking' rule is in effect or I am doomed. 
Not so sure. Have not seen Derrick dunk either, so this could be a wash. Suggestion: start working on your hops.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2014, 09:03:28 AM »
You twist yourself into knots on this stuff, and there isn't any reason to.

Keep it simple, stupid. KISS.

Dawson likely isn't playing because he's not better than the guy(s) in front of him (yet).

END.

Do you take every single situation in life at face value?  Ever seen or heard of situations in life where there is more to the story?  

Here's a few questions for you and the other Beaver Cleavers:

So, Dawson was good enough to play under Buzz last season during conference play, and JJJ wasn't?  Has JJJ taken this huge step forward this season and shown he's a better player than Dawson showed last year?  How do you get a kid to want to transfer??  Nail him to the bench - just like Buzz did with JJJ and Steve last year, and everyone here knows JJJ/Steve were gone if Buzz was still around.  (But Buzz had Ahmed Hill and Malek/Shayock to fill the shoes of JJJ and Steve - just as Wojo may feel he has Nick N to fill Dawson's slot.)

None of our guards thus far have distinguished themselves as being must haves on the floor - been very inconsistent performance by all of them. All of them are being given close to 20+ minutes per game to show what they can do - except one - Dawson....who got a lot more of a chance to show what he could do (as a freshman) last non-conference season than this non-con.  It doesn't make any sense other than to say the staff is trying to encourage a transfer.  Hope they at least can be transparent enough to be real about it and tell the kid and his family as much.

And I thought Marquette did a good job of teaching critical thinking skills?
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #80 on: November 27, 2014, 09:10:23 AM »

This post is why no one takes you seriously.  Well...and this one.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45307.0

Guys who make absolute statements such as "no one" takes you seriously show exactly why they shouldn't be taken seriously.  But, if you could take me seriously - you'd acknowledge that I told you and this board all of last season something wasn't right with Buzz when I'd been nothing but bullish on him in all years prior.  You and other face value thinkers offered up your brilliant:  He's doing things as he's always done.  Business as usual.

Then what happens:  Buzz shocks the college basketball world and bails for VaTech. 

Critical thinking skills Sultan.  Apparently you left Marquette without acquiring them.  Critical thinking skills are used to connect dots when what takes place on the surface doesn't quite mesh with common sense.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2014, 09:10:38 AM »
They also serve who only SIT and wait

GGGG

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2014, 09:11:33 AM »
Do you take every single situation in life at face value?  Ever seen or heard of situations in life where there is more to the story?  

Here's a few questions for you and the other Beaver Cleavers:

So, Dawson was good enough to play under Buzz last season during conference play, and JJJ wasn't?  Has JJJ taken this huge step forward this season and shown he's a better player than Dawson showed last year?  How do you get a kid to want to transfer??  Nail him to the bench - just like Buzz did with JJJ and Steve last year, and everyone here knows JJJ/Steve were gone if Buzz was still around.  (But Buzz had Ahmed Hill and Malek/Shayock to fill the shoes of JJJ and Steve - just as Wojo may feel he has Nick N to fill Dawson's slot.)

None of our guards thus far have distinguished themselves as being must haves on the floor - been very inconsistent performance by all of them. All of them are being given close to 20+ minutes per game to show what they can do - except one - Dawson....who got a lot more of a chance to show what he could do (as a freshman) last non-conference season than this non-con.  It doesn't make any sense other than to say the staff is trying to encourage a transfer.  Hope they at least can be transparent enough to be real about it and tell the kid and his family as much.

And I thought Marquette did a good job of teaching critical thinking skills?


John Dawson:  10.8 mpg in conference play
JJJ:  9.2 mpg

Hardly a significant difference when you consider Dawson was really the only back up at point guard, while JJJ was playing behind both Thomas and Mayo.

Furthermore, even if Wojo was nailing him to the bench to encourage a transfer, doesn't that give you an indication that Dawson might actually not be as good as you have suggested?  Why would he be encouraging a good player to transfer?

GGGG

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2014, 09:14:01 AM »
Guys who make absolute statements such as "no one" takes you seriously show exactly why they shouldn't be taken seriously.  But, if you could take me seriously - you'd acknowledge that I told you and this board all of last season something wasn't right with Buzz when I'd been nothing but bullish on him in all years prior.  You and other face value thinkers offered up your brilliant:  He's doing things as he's always done.  Business as usual.

Then what happens:  Buzz shocks the college basketball world and bails for VaTech. 

Critical thinking skills Sultan.  Apparently you left Marquette without acquiring them.  Critical thinking skills are used to connect dots when what takes place on the surface doesn't quite mesh with common sense.


LOL.  If anything, Wojo's playing time decisions have really only reinforced why Buzz made the decisions he made last year. 

(BTW, the "critical thinking skills" is a cute new talking point you have decided to trot out.)

Wojo'sMojo

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2014, 09:49:03 AM »

You are pathetic.  Go root for someone else please.

Pathetic?? lol, says the guy who spends 18 hours a day on a basketball message board. Dude, hopefully u can pull yourself away from your computer and have a little family time today.

brandx

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #85 on: November 27, 2014, 10:01:11 AM »
Pathetic?? lol, says the guy who spends 18 hours a day on a basketball message board. Dude, hopefully u can pull yourself away from your computer and have a little family time today.

I thought your only duty on this board when you were hired was to defend Chicos. Wait, maybe attacking sultan is another way for you to do that.

brandx

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2014, 10:03:59 AM »
Do you take every single situation in life at face value?  Ever seen or heard of situations in life where there is more to the story?  

Here's a few questions for you and the other Beaver Cleavers:

So, Dawson was good enough to play under Buzz last season during conference play, and JJJ wasn't?  Has JJJ taken this huge step forward this season and shown he's a better player than Dawson showed last year?  How do you get a kid to want to transfer??  Nail him to the bench - just like Buzz did with JJJ and Steve last year, and everyone here knows JJJ/Steve were gone if Buzz was still around.  (But Buzz had Ahmed Hill and Malek/Shayock to fill the shoes of JJJ and Steve - just as Wojo may feel he has Nick N to fill Dawson's slot.)

None of our guards thus far have distinguished themselves as being must haves on the floor - been very inconsistent performance by all of them. All of them are being given close to 20+ minutes per game to show what they can do - except one - Dawson....who got a lot more of a chance to show what he could do (as a freshman) last non-conference season than this non-con.  It doesn't make any sense other than to say the staff is trying to encourage a transfer.  Hope they at least can be transparent enough to be real about it and tell the kid and his family as much.

And I thought Marquette did a good job of teaching critical thinking skills?

Dude, you are out of control. Have some honor and self-respect and BAN YOURSELF.
You asked for, and then ignored our opinion!!

And then go see a doc. There is medication for OCD disorder.

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2014, 10:08:24 AM »

John Dawson:  10.8 mpg in conference play
JJJ:  9.2 mpg

Hardly a significant difference when you consider Dawson was really the only back up at point guard, while JJJ was playing behind both Thomas and Mayo.

Furthermore, even if Wojo was nailing him to the bench to encourage a transfer, doesn't that give you an indication that Dawson might actually not be as good as you have suggested?  Why would he be encouraging a good player to transfer?

LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:

Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.

So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games.  Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently.  Two coaches.  Two different opinions.  Hmm.

As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was.  3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.

As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane),  suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length.  Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM.  Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue.  Much better than Jamail Jones.  Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

brandx

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2014, 10:12:25 AM »
LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:

Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.

So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games.  Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently.  Two coaches.  Two different opinions.  Hmm.

As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was.  3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.

As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane),  suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length.  Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM.  Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue.  Much better than Jamail Jones.  Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.

There is NO EVIDENCE that Wojo is encouraging John to transfer.

Meds!!

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #89 on: November 27, 2014, 10:14:51 AM »
Dude, you are out of control. Have some honor and self-respect and BAN YOURSELF.
You asked for, and then ignored our opinion!!

And then go see a doc. There is medication for OCD disorder.

Thanks for the concern Brandx.  Apparently the others are just as OCD in their nature as they continue to argue the other side of the debate. And that's all this is, is a debate, with two sides having different opinions..

I would appreciate it, however, if some of you would at least attack the argument I'm making in these posts, instead of attacking me personally.  The personal attacks don't bother me, but they ultimately illustrate an inability to attack the argument/post being made.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

mufan22

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #90 on: November 27, 2014, 10:19:09 AM »
Anyone here think we should've hired Ners instead of Wojo? We may not have landed Ellenson, but we'd definitely be 4-0 with Ners as a player/coach!

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #91 on: November 27, 2014, 10:19:22 AM »
There is NO EVIDENCE that Wojo is encouraging John to transfer.

Meds!!

And that's the whole point I'm making - some of you seem to lack critical thinking skills.  Can't see (or refuse to see) anything beyond surface level.  Just as many did with Buzz last year...and then when he shocked the college basketball world and bolted to Va Tech - some "conveniently" decided to give up the Scoop board for Lent.  LOL.  

I feel pretty confident that if Wojo continues to nail Dawson to the bench and not give him a fair chance to show what he can do in non-conference play, Dawson will transfer.  Care to wager?
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

willie warrior

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #92 on: November 27, 2014, 10:39:52 AM »
Anyone here think we should've hired Ners instead of Wojo? We may not have landed Ellenson, but we'd definitely be 4-0 with Ners as a player/coach!
No, I prefer Wojo to Ners as Coach. Now, Ners is perfect on this board, ticking people off with his insightful deductions. That is why he is...Nerslock Holmes.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

Texas Western

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #93 on: November 27, 2014, 10:56:59 AM »
LOL - Nice try Sultan - I know you're more intelligent than your conference minute per game stats served up suggest:

Try this:
Dawson - 15 conference games played, averaged 10.8 minutes.
JJJ - 8 games playes, a total of 69 minutes for 8.625 games.

So, JJJ played less minutes per game in the games he played, yet played in 7 less conference games.  Somehow Buzz thought Dawson was a better option for playing time than JJJ apparently - now Wojo sees it differently.  Two coaches.  Two different opinions.  Hmm.

As for depth chart challenges - we primarily rolled with a 3 guard lineup as it was.  3 guards, Jamil, and Gardner/Otule.

As for Wojo seemingly choosing to encourage Dawson's transfer as opposed to others (JJJ, Duane),  suggests he sees those guys being better and a case could be made for that...and I've said as much - Duane has more quickness, JJJ more length.  Yet, Coaches don't always make the right calls on players Sultan - they make talent evaluation mistakes as well - such as Buzz the GM.  Go back to Newbill - he turned out to be a much better player than Vander Blue.  Much better than Jamail Jones.  Yet Buzz cut Newbill loose.
I have it on pretty good word, that Dawson enjoys and values Marquette as a school. I think he understands his role for now. He has a lot of friends and is doing well. It is possible that he could transfer but not probable.


MU82

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2014, 10:59:57 AM »

If anything, Wojo's playing time decisions have really only reinforced why Buzz made the decisions he made last year. 


I do not totally buy this argument (except for how it applies to Dawson) because 2014-15 is significantly different from 2013-14.

Last year, we were supposed to be good. And even though we weren't good, we weren't really bad. That's what a .500 record tells you. It's the very definition of mediocre. Right up until the end, Buzz felt that if we put together a little stretch in which we went 4-2 or 3-1, we could sneak into the dance. So he was all about doing what he felt he had to do to win. And he felt he had to play Derrick and Jake. Even though the evidence suggested that was one of the very worst backcourts in the nation, he kept trotting those two guys out there. Based on what he saw in practices and in the limited game samples, he simply didn't trust the alternatives.

Ners has suggested Buzz was trying to throw games. That's absurd, and I suggest the opposite is true. Buzz was desperately trying to win and he was going to stick with "his guys" through thin and thinner.

This season, it already is obvious we aren't going to the NCAA tournament. We will be fortunate to come close to mediocrity. Wojo is smart and probably knows this in his heart of heart, but he is a coach so he is nowhere near throwing in the towel. So he is walking the line between trying to win and developing talent.

That has led him to play Derrick a ton in a few games but also to bench him when he felt Derrick was playing especially crappy or when we couldn't afford to have one of the worst FT-shooting PGs in college basketball history on the court. It has led to JJJ, Cohen and Duane getting good long runs in some games and a good amount of bench time in others.

If a player who wasn't one of "his guys" made a mistake last year, Buzz would pull him after a minute and not play him again, maybe not for several games. If a player makes a mistake this season, Wojo will pull him but then put him back in the game later. For Wojo, it hasn't mattered if that player is Derrick or Taylor or Carlino or whomever. Did Buzz ever pull Jake last season after making one mistake?

The one player both seem to agree upon is Dawson, and that leads me to believe what I already suspected was true: Dawson simply can't play at this level. His one big game against Georgetown was kind of like Jim Dudley's flash-in-the-pan moment in the 1977 tourney.

Even after Dawson's performance against Georgetown, though, Buzz barely gave him a chance. It would be like Wojo watching what Duane did down the stretch against NJIT and then barely playing him again for the rest of the season.

But Wojo won't do that. One, because I'm sure he believes Duane is a superior player; and two, because Wojo knows he must develop Duane while Buzz felt zero urgency to develop Dawson. Apparently, Wojo feels the same lack of urgency regarding Dawson.

Do I think Wojo is sending Dawson a "you might as well transfer" message? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't have to be a "sinister" thing, and it happens all the time in college sports.

Dawson isn't playing because he's not good enough. Two coaches in a row, each with completely different assistants, have deemed that to be true. And a good number of Scoopers not named Ners realized even last season that he probably doesn't have high-major talent.

I firmly believe that if Wojo considered Dawson anywhere near as good a long-term candidate as Duane, JJJ and/or Cohen, Dawson would be in that mix and getting fairly equivalent playing time.

Assuming Dawson and his family are intelligent -- and they certainly seem to be -- they should be interpreting the kid's bench time as a message. If they aren't already exploring opportunities to transfer, they should ... unless Dawson loves Marquette so much he can't bear to leave, which though highly unlikely is a possibility.

Again, it's not all black and white. Lots of gray area here.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

T-Bone

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2014, 11:23:46 AM »
I think hes subliminally be encouraged to transfer. I mean is he that much worse than anyone else.

If you go and read all the haikus posted on scoop in reverse chronological order and take the first letter of the third word in the second line, followed by the rot13 of the last letter of the haiku, it's really pretty clear that Wojo has a message for us.
I'm like a turtle, sometimes I get run over by a semi.

real chili 83

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2014, 11:51:42 AM »
I have it on pretty good word, that Dawson enjoys and values Marquette as a school. I think he understands his role for now. He has a lot of friends and is doing well. It is possible that he could transfer but not probable.



Glad to hear it. 

He knows he will be part of something special.  His old man is ok too.

MuMark

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #97 on: November 27, 2014, 12:26:37 PM »
I thought Ners agreed to ban himself?  ::)

Norm

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #98 on: November 27, 2014, 12:42:25 PM »
With only 9 scholarship players and the with the horrendous play over the last 3 games, I still can't believe Dawson was locked to the bench. I mean, the last two games are two of the worst performance by MU teams over the past 20 years, and every player struggled, some more than others, and he can't get off the pine? Makes no sense unless he is injured or he has already told Wojo he is transferring.

MuMark

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #99 on: November 27, 2014, 12:54:47 PM »
Or Wojo has seen him play every day for months and doesn't think he is better than the guys who are playing.....

With only 9 scholarship players and the with the horrendous play over the last 3 games, I still can't believe Dawson was locked to the bench. I mean, the last two games are two of the worst performance by MU teams over the past 20 years, and every player struggled, some more than others, and he can't get off the pine? Makes no sense unless he is injured or he has already told Wojo he is transferring.
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