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Author Topic: John Dawson  (Read 90984 times)

Untucked

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2014, 02:17:08 PM »
When he played point last year, the offense ran much smoother and MUCH faster than when Derrick Willson played, which unfortunately was almost all the time. I just don't understand the universal love for Derrick Willson???
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Ellisium

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2014, 02:18:53 PM »
When he played point last year, the offense ran much smoother and MUCH faster than when Derrick Willson played, which unfortunately was almost all the time. I just don't understand the universal love for Derrick Willson???

No universal love exists ..... merely the battle consists of those who are enamored with offense vs. those who know that defense is going wins you games. 

Ari Gold

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2014, 02:36:04 PM »
The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.

My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 02:47:01 PM by Ari Gold »

mu03eng

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2014, 02:43:36 PM »
When he played point last year, the offense ran much smoother and MUCH faster than when Derrick Willson played, which unfortunately was almost all the time. I just don't understand the universal love for Derrick Willson???

There is not one person on this board that loves Derrick Wilson's game.  The vast majority see more value in Wilson's game to Dawson's based on the evidence we've seen to date.  We also know that both Buzz and Wojo severely limited Dawson's minutes and they have far more evidence than we do.  Hence, Derrick must be better than Dawson

Ners' answer is that Dawson is a 2 and there are too many players to allow Dawson minutes.  Perhaps, this is correct.  However we have at least four players on this roster that have or can play PG:  Du Wilson, De Wilson, Matt Carlino, and John Dawson.  We have at least four players on this roster that have or can play shooting guard:  Matt Carlino, Du Wilson, Sandy Cohen, and John Dawson.  Dawson can't get minutes at either position even with 1 being an apparent need.  If he was servicable he would get minutes, because he is not the coaching staff knows something Ners does not....unless Ners is better than Wojo at evaluating talent.
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77ncaachamps

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2014, 02:47:19 PM »
The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.

My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer

You forgot our love for his 5 fouls a game.
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jesmu84

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2014, 03:29:15 PM »
Nonetheless, Wojo seems to have come to the conclusion that of his current guards Dawson is the most "expendable," and therefore not as good as the other underclassmen.  I can see where he on the surface has drawn that conclusion given that JJJ and Cohen all have more length than Dawson.  Duane more quickness.  Yet, JJJ and Cohen have been wildly inconsistent thus far and are being given opportunity.

At some point Wojo will have to let go of the whole notion that Derrick is a valuable contributor to the team as a player on the floor.  All of his minutes should be given to Duane, Sandy, JJJ and Dawson.  He's not the future.  And he isn't going to help in the present.  Rebuild mode, get the young guys ready - and in so doing they'll like achieve more by February than if he continues to ride Derrick.

Agreed on all of this. And my post had nothing to do with derrick. But I do believe Duane and carlino should be 1/2 at the PG.

My post was that you seem to be finding every reason in the proverbial book to explain away why Dawson isn't playing other than the most obvious and perands the simplest - he just isn't good enough yet. I hope he will be in the future. I hope he stays all 4 years. There are numerous examples in college bball of a guy sitting on the bench as an underclassmen and then contributing later on. He doesn't have to transfer, that's a personal choice a lot of the time. I hope he doesn't.

When you say things like " the only conclusion".. really? the only conclusion is another convoluted train of thought? Why can't he just be not good enough yet? Or, At least, can you explain why you appear to be so narrow-minded as to believe that's the ONLY possible conclusion at this point?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 03:35:01 PM by jesmu84 »

jesmu84

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2014, 03:31:58 PM »
I do find it weird that Dawson hasn't seen the floor at all, especially considering the level of competition we have played and the short bench. Then again, we haven't exactly been playing with any sort of comfortable lead (that is if have one to begin with) where a third string PG can have significant minutes.

I do believe Dawson can contribute to this team, even if it's only 7-10 minutes a game.

Short bench? I find it ironic that this keeps being mentioned this season. Last season, and others past, when buzz was line changing and playing 9-10 guys, it was pointed out repeatedly that most good teams have a short 7-8 man rotation. So now we have a rotation Like that and it's "short" and people are confused why we aren't playing everyone.

GGGG

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2014, 03:52:32 PM »
Nonetheless, Wojo seems to have come to the conclusion that of his current guards Dawson is the most "expendable," and therefore not as good as the other underclassmen. I can see where he on the surface has drawn that conclusion given that JJJ and Cohen all have more length than Dawson.  Duane more quickness.  Yet, JJJ and Cohen have been wildly inconsistent thus far and are being given opportunity.


"On the surface?"  Well shame on Wojo for not checking with you to get the more in-depth answer.   ::)

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2014, 03:52:42 PM »
The only love Derrick Wilson will get from me is when the game clock hits all zeros on senior day.

My guess about Dawson is he just doesn't have the intelligence right now to play in Wojo's system. It'll develop, he wont transfer

I agree. I have never been so excited for a player to graduate and leave the program.

BallBoy

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2014, 04:57:23 PM »
Ah. Another convoluted excuse to why Dawson isn't playing. Buzz Trying to throw games, 2 coaching staffs are wrong, Wojo is living vvicariously throw derrick and now encouraging a transfer. No legit possibility that Dawson just isn't as good as people have made him out to be.

Speaking of convoluted excuses, have we heard one yet as to why he put a poll up about banning himself but didn't follow through on it? 

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2014, 05:06:15 PM »

We have at least four players on this roster that have or can play shooting guard:  Matt Carlino, Du Wilson, Sandy Cohen, and John Dawson. 

JJJ also can play shooting guard, and that might be his main position before all is said and done at Marquette. Heck, on some teams with size, Juan and Deonte might be used as shooting guards!
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tower912

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2014, 05:16:17 PM »
I agree. I have never been so excited for a player to graduate and leave the program.

Yup.  Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace.   Begone!  ::)
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buckchuckler

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2014, 05:28:53 PM »
Speaking of convoluted excuses, have we heard one yet as to why he put a poll up about banning himself but didn't follow through on it? 


Because the poll was nothing more than an ego trip.  He wanted to see how many pages there could be of people just talking about him. 

Wojo'sMojo

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2014, 05:30:30 PM »
Yup.  Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace.   Begone!  ::)

That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2014, 05:32:00 PM »
That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."


You are pathetic.  Go root for someone else please.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 05:34:45 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

BallBoy

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2014, 05:35:45 PM »
I have not noticed that much being covered on John Dawson's situation.  He is not playing at all on a nine member team - even when two of the players were injured.  Is he leaving at the semester?  Is he being red shirted?  Is he injured?  Is it that he can't play defense because that is the same deficiency other players have.  I have liked John's play last year.  I thought he was very good distributing the ball.  I still remember Dvante saying he thought John was the best point guard.  I am sad he is not playing.     


If we look at the simple answer it is pretty apparent that MU runs about three deep at PG and at SG.

PG - Wilson, Wilson, Carlino
SG - Wilson, Carlino, and JJJ

The players aren't listed in any order. In the game that Dawson did get time Wilson was hurt which indicates playing four deep is not in the cards unless needed. For Dawson to get time, he needs to move up in the depth chart. If he can play either position better than those three he would be put into that position.  since he is not then it tells me he is not better at PG or SG then the respective 3 players at each position.

If we take the conspiracy theory, Wojo and Buzz were trying to throw the season for personal reasons. In addition, john lost all PG skills he displayed last year because the staff sees him as only a 2G.

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2014, 05:37:17 PM »
That should be his nickname. Derrick "high character" Wilson. That's all anyone ever says about him. Im glad you have enjoyed having him and all the "high character" he has brought to the program. I have not and will be happy when we have a PG who can be effective running the team and hit an occasional 3 pointer or free throw. At least in 10 years you can look back and say "remember that high character PG we had, man he was special."

Ya instead we should have a team full of rapists, drug dealers, and people getting into off court problems because as long as we're winning its worth it! Maybe you're young or just don't have a good memory but in the span of two years we made ESPN's homepage for a bunch of off the court issues and Id say none of them were worth the winning... Maybe if they'd brought us a Final four Id be singing a different tune.
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buckchuckler

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2014, 05:37:21 PM »
Yup.  Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace.   Begone!  ::)

Couldn't agree more.  DW has been nothing but a great representative of MU.  Is it maddening that he can't hit free throws?  Of course.  Does it warrant the venom that is cast his way on a nearly daily basis?  Not even close.  It is a bit mind boggling how people are willing to talk about student athletes that are representing our University. 

brewcity77

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2014, 05:44:26 PM »
It's amazing the vitriol that has been cast at Derrick over the past couple years. He may not be what everyone wanted but we'd have been even worse off without him.
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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2014, 05:47:41 PM »
Yup.  Can't stand that high character representative of a university who, through no fault of his own, was forced to take on a role beyond his abilities, but did so without complaint, with style and grace.   Begone!  ::)

Bingo!

The coaches allocating the minutes have been Buzz and now Wojo, and Derrick has been working his tail off to do whatever is asked of him.  Despite this, Derrick has been the butt of more obnoxious, disrespectful comments here than any MU player in recent memory - from wishing he'd get injured to looking forward to when he's gone.  Rip Buzz, rip Wojo, but Derrick is a great kid who deserves our respect and admiration.

tower912

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2014, 06:10:40 PM »
I have a 19 year old daughter.   I only hope she brings home someone with as much class, with as much strength of character, with as much leadership as Derrick Wilson.    The fact that I can beat him at HORSE is just gravy. ;D     But seriously, to constantly rag on this guy, who has been a great teammate, who has lead, who has only done what was asked by two different coaches......says way more about the haters than it does about him.   
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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2014, 06:10:51 PM »
Or, Dawson loves his experience in the MU culture and accepts his role. Every team has players like this. Rosters usually have 12 - 15 players and the bottom 4 or 5 are not going to play much, at least in meaningful games, and they accept this.

Players at this level know where they stand compared to their competition on the team. Most are able to accept that. Just looking back at posts from John's dad, I think the overall experience is important to John and his family.

Dawson Rental

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2014, 06:22:10 PM »
Has he been slapping fives with his teammates?

I see what you did there.
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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2014, 06:31:07 PM »
Speaking of convoluted excuses, have we heard one yet as to why he put a poll up about banning himself but didn't follow through on it? 


Saved by the Mods who shut that thread down before voting officially closed.  Sorry Ball Boy - I'll still be around, and I'm sure I'll still disagree with you a ton.  Happy Thanksgiving.
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BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

NersEllenson

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Re: John Dawson
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2014, 06:39:36 PM »
It's amazing the vitriol that has been cast at Derrick over the past couple years. He may not be what everyone wanted but we'd have been even worse off without him.

You can like the kid, but you don't have to like the player. 

And no, we wouldn't have been worse off without him.  You are talking about historically bad play for his position.

And, why on God's green earth Wojo is playing him alongside either Duane or Carlino is ridiculous. This continued notion of Derrick's defense being so elite is a farce.  He got blown by repeatedly the other night against NJIT.  He rarely gets steals.  He is a complete liability on the offensive end - his deficiencies are so incredible on that end, that he would have to be the most elite defender in all of college basketball history to offset the horrendous liabilities he brings on the offensive end.

I'll give Wojo the benefit of the doubt for now, but his usage of Derrick is a big red flag with regard to his coaching acumen.   
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013