Talent

[mileskishnish72]

I guess (or should have known) that the vote won't make any difference. The good news is that DeWil is a senior so a certain poster won't know what to fixate on after another 30 or so games.

[Anti-Dentite]

"Talent" is not the issue. These guys could stay with anyone on a playground. The issue is learning and applying what is learned. Slow on the uptake and even slower on the application. A Lot of bad habits to overcome. Saw brief flashes last night but this is going to take a while...very frustrating.

[tower912]

There is talent.   It is inexperienced.    And all the same size.   And not very good at defense.   Learning a new system.   I see Juan, Matt, and Derrick desperately trying to lead, but only one has had consistent results.    Carlino needs to see the ball go in the basket.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

"Talent" is not the issue. These guys could stay with anyone on a playground. The issue is learning and applying what is learned. Slow on the uptake and even slower on the application. A Lot of bad habits to overcome. Saw brief flashes last night but this is going to take a while...very frustrating.

+1

I was wondering if maybe Buzz' aversion to set plays in the half court offense is bringing the team down now. Wojo runs a lot more set plays and they have seemed to work in most cases, but I don't think are guys are used to playing like that. It will take some time but they should get better as the year goes on.

[NersEllenson]

Ners not a Derrick apologist but he was clearly our third best all around player tonight behind Anderson and Duane Wilson.

You may want to jump on Carlino and JJJ for a bit.  Derrick actually being the least of our problems may be our biggest problem.

I agree Carlino and JJJ were bad but both had better O-Ratings than Derrick.  At this point all DeWill's minutes should be going to Duane, JJJ or Dawson.

O Ratings:
Derrick - 26
Carlino - 39
JJJ - 79
Cohen (for those interested) 79 - Hard to post a decent O-Rating in 11 minutes.

[NersEllenson]

Well if there's one thing we know going forward, it's that Ners is gonna be down $500 by seasons end.

There's another bet for $500 between me and Lenny that may make it a push.  I said Newbill would get drafted at season's end.  So far that's looking good.  The other one?  Not so much.   

[Anti-Dentite]

+1

I was wondering if maybe Buzz' aversion to set plays in the half court offense is bringing the team down now. Wojo runs a lot more set plays and they have seemed to work in most cases, but I don't think are guys are used to playing like that. It will take some time but they should get better as the year goes on.

Probably, it all plays into what we are seeing. Wojo learning on the job, new system, basically new players and undersized to boot. We really started from scratch this year and it shows. Look for the little bit of progress each game. This is gonna take a while, I, along with just about everyone else was too optimistic going in.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Hard to post a decent O-Rating in 11 minutes.

Actually its very easy. As you point out so often, Pomeroy doesn't count the o-ratings of players who play under ten minutes. Now you use this as a justification for why certain players you prefer have such low o-ratings. The real reason Pomeroy doesn't count it is because such a small sample size tends to exaggerate the results...in both directions. Someone playing a short a minute of time has an equal chance of having their o-rating exaggerated in a positive or negative direction.

But, Sandy did have a nice 11 minutes. Hope to see more from him. Derrick had an abysmal offensive game but a very solid defensive one. Guarded NJIT's best player, Damon Lynn for most of the game. Held him to 4-20 from the fields (3-12 from 3, 1-8 from 2). With Carlino playing turnstile D, I don't know if we would have won without that. Hopefully going forward we can see Derrick combine his offense from the Omaha game and his defense from the NJIT game.

[tower912]

Wojo seemed to have a very direct trigger last night.   After Cohen threw that pass to nobody, he put his head down and started walking to the bench.   He knew.   When Derrick had a couple of bad possessions in a row, he knew he was coming out.   Deonte had another bad defensive possession, he looked to the bench.  Sandy has been a very pleasant surprise and I hope he keeps getting minutes.   However, when Luke comes back, either Sandy's, STjr's, or Deonte's minutes are going to suffer.   If Juan keeps playing like he has, he will still get his minutes. 

The whole team has to commit to defensive rebounding.   To be flat-footed, or worse, have some guys leaking out when the team is struggling to get a stop is not helping. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Wojo seemed to have a very direct trigger last night.   After Cohen threw that pass to nobody, he put his head down and started walking to the bench.   He knew.   When Derrick had a couple of bad possessions in a row, he knew he was coming out.   Deonte had another bad defensive possession, he looked to the bench.  Sandy has been a very pleasant surprise and I hope he keeps getting minutes.   However, when Luke comes back, either Sandy's, STjr's, or Deonte's minutes are going to suffer.   If Juan keeps playing like he has, he will still get his minutes. 

The whole team has to commit to defensive rebounding.   To be flat-footed, or worse, have some guys leaking out when the team is struggling to get a stop is not helping. 

These next few games are really Steve's time to show what he's capable of. With Fischer becoming eligible in a few weeks and Henry joining next year's squad, Steve's PT could take a hit, especially if his D doesn't improve.

[MU82]

Interesting tidbit about how Carlino's great uncle played for Al McGuire.  My guess is that if we put him in the game, he'd do a much better job of staying in front of his man.  Nice offense tonight Carlino going 0 for 5.  You're garbage. 

Very classy.

[MU82]

6 RSCI Top 100 players.  Once Luke Fisher is here it will be 7.  On paper it may be our most talented team in 30+ years. 

On computer screen, this may be our silliest comment in Scoop history.

[GOO]

Inexperience. we all knew this coming in. That is the word to remember this year. Some chose to ignore it or didn't live through this a few times and didn't understand what this can mean.

Talent, yes, but not over the top talent.  There is talent but it isn't the type of talent that makes up for inexperience.  The talent isn't top 25 or top 10 type of talent that is NBA ready and can simply come in, roll the ball out, and they will win.  It is inexperienced talent that needs to learn and develop to be at BE level quality and consistency.  

Wojo is not putting together a piece meal team at the last minute and instead looking to longer term stability.  He isn't Buzz and won't piece together a team of misfits at the last minute during the spring and summer.  Think longer term and good student athletes with high level talent - this is Wojo - he is part of Marquette the school - not just running a basketball program.  This is good for MU long term and good for MU as an institution.  Basketball will market MU in a positive way and we will win.  Just won't win right now.  

Wojo is developing the talent.  This takes time.  Development isn't an instant fix.  It takes a year or two.  One of the reasons I thought it would take a season or two for Wojo's development/basics to pay off is the initial step back and learning how to do it the right way.  Teaching fundamentals makes players take a step back initially.  Long term outlook by Wojo not a short term fix.  Not looking for a short term instant fix (e.g. Deonte sitting); do it the right way and buy in.  Guys will get it and mentally thinks will speed up for them doing it fundamentally right.  I think we'll even start to see this later this month and next month.

On Development.  Think of something you do that you had to take a step back to improve on and relearn a bit.  It slows one down at first.  It challenges oneself mentally not to fall into the old habit that gets it done quicker in the short term.  

I don't expect a lot from this team.  However, I still think we will start to see some results in January.  Even if not a lot of wins due to the talent level of teams we play going up, we will see improvement.  That is what I want to see.  In a word Development.

[MU82]

Inexperience. we all knew this coming in. That is the word to remember this year. Some chose to ignore it or didn't live through this a few times and didn't understand what this can mean.

Talent, yes, but not over the top talent.  There is talent but it isn't the type of talent that makes up for inexperience.  The talent isn't top 25 or top 10 type of talent that is NBA ready and can simply come in, roll the ball out, and they will win.  It is inexperienced talent that needs to learn and develop to be at BE level quality and consistency.  

Wojo is not putting together a piece meal team at the last minute and instead looking to longer term stability.  He isn't Buzz and won't piece together a team of misfits at the last minute during the spring and summer.  Think longer term and good student athletes with high level talent - this is Wojo - he is part of Marquette the school - not just running a basketball program.  This is good for MU long term and good for MU as an institution.  Basketball will market MU in a positive way and we will win.  Just won't win right now.  

Wojo is developing the talent.  This takes time.  Development isn't an instant fix.  It takes a year or two.  One of the reasons I thought it would take a season or two for Wojo's development/basics to pay off is the initial step back and learning how to do it the right way.  Teaching fundamentals makes players take a step back initially.  Long term outlook by Wojo not a short term fix.  Not looking for a short term instant fix (e.g. Deonte sitting); do it the right way and buy in.  Guys will get it and mentally thinks will speed up for them doing it fundamentally right.  I think we'll even start to see this later this month and next month.

On Development.  Think of something you do that you had to take a step back to improve on and relearn a bit.  It slows one down at first.  It challenges oneself mentally not to fall into the old habit that gets it done quicker in the short term.  

I don't expect a lot from this team.  However, I still think we will start to see some results in January.  Even if not a lot of wins due to the talent level of teams we play going up, we will see improvement.  That is what I want to see.  In a word Development.

Outstanding post, GOO.

[Anti-Dentite]

Inexperience. we all knew this coming in. That is the word to remember this year. Some chose to ignore it or didn't live through this a few times and didn't understand what this can mean.

Talent, yes, but not over the top talent.  There is talent but it isn't the type of talent that makes up for inexperience.  The talent isn't top 25 or top 10 type of talent that is NBA ready and can simply come in, roll the ball out, and they will win.  It is inexperienced talent that needs to learn and develop to be at BE level quality and consistency.  

Wojo is not putting together a piece meal team at the last minute and instead looking to longer term stability.  He isn't Buzz and won't piece together a team of misfits at the last minute during the spring and summer.  Think longer term and good student athletes with high level talent - this is Wojo - he is part of Marquette the school - not just running a basketball program.  This is good for MU long term and good for MU as an institution.  Basketball will market MU in a positive way and we will win.  Just won't win right now.  

Wojo is developing the talent.  This takes time.  Development isn't an instant fix.  It takes a year or two.  One of the reasons I thought it would take a season or two for Wojo's development/basics to pay off is the initial step back and learning how to do it the right way.  Teaching fundamentals makes players take a step back initially.  Long term outlook by Wojo not a short term fix.  Not looking for a short term instant fix (e.g. Deonte sitting); do it the right way and buy in.  Guys will get it and mentally thinks will speed up for them doing it fundamentally right.  I think we'll even start to see this later this month and next month.

On Development.  Think of something you do that you had to take a step back to improve on and relearn a bit.  It slows one down at first.  It challenges oneself mentally not to fall into the old habit that gets it done quicker in the short term.  

I don't expect a lot from this team.  However, I still think we will start to see some results in January.  Even if not a lot of wins due to the talent level of teams we play going up, we will see improvement.  That is what I want to see.  In a word Development.

Bingo.

[NersEllenson]

Outstanding post, GOO.

Agree.  Well done.

[brewcity77]

Derrick had an abysmal offensive game but a very solid defensive one. Guarded NJIT's best player, Damon Lynn for most of the game. Held him to 4-20 from the fields (3-12 from 3, 1-8 from 2). With Carlino playing turnstile D, I don't know if we would have won without that. Hopefully going forward we can see Derrick combine his offense from the Omaha game and his defense from the NJIT game.

When it comes to offense, I never expect consistency from Derrick. He had games last year similar to the Omaha game (ASU really stands out, there were a few others) but he won't likely ever give that on a nightly basis. But you are right about his defense on Lynn, especially in the last 8 minutes. I re-watched that portion of the game. Lynn was primarily guarded by Derrick during that time. When Derrick was on him, he went 0-5 from the field. Derrick did a good job not just harassing him but also pushing him into help defense (though on one of those occasions he pushed him to Carlino, who mustered a classic turnstile swipe at the ball, though Lynn missed the layup). His only make was a 3-pointer right over Duane Wilson.

Derrick is what he is. A solid (not spectacular) defensive player and a below average offensive player. He can't shoot, but when he's on his game, he can drive and create, and he won't turn the ball over. I'm glad to see him playing with more dynamic offensive players this year at the 2 position in Carlino and Duane -- they are much better compliments to make up for Derrick's deficiencies than Jake ever was.

[willie warrior]

When it comes to offense, I never expect consistency from Derrick. He had games last year similar to the Omaha game (ASU really stands out, there were a few others) but he won't likely ever give that on a nightly basis. But you are right about his defense on Lynn, especially in the last 8 minutes. I re-watched that portion of the game. Lynn was primarily guarded by Derrick during that time. When Derrick was on him, he went 0-5 from the field. Derrick did a good job not just harassing him but also pushing him into help defense (though on one of those occasions he pushed him to Carlino, who mustered a classic turnstile swipe at the ball, though Lynn missed the layup). His only make was a 3-pointer right over Duane Wilson.

Derrick is what he is. A solid (not spectacular) defensive player and a below average offensive player. He can't shoot, but when he's on his game, he can drive and create, and he won't turn the ball over. I'm glad to see him playing with more dynamic offensive players this year at the 2 position in Carlino and Duane -- they are much better compliments to make up for Derrick's deficiencies than Jake ever was.

Sorry, hanging your hat on this guy for 30 plus minutes per game provides for many more losses. His defense is just OK. I have seen many guys blow right by him. He is not a great defensive player to make up for the huge offensive liabilities. He is "solid" defensively, but that does not warrant playing him as much as some view it.

[tower912]

So, the solution is to
 (A) Play Carlino more at the point.  Oh, wait, he hasn't taken off yet, offensively, and has struggled defensively. 
 (B) Play Duane more.   Offensively, I am ok with this.   I just saw him trail an abundance of guys cutting back door last night and am not sure he has a hope of containing a quality PG.
 (C) Play the mystery man more.   I have know idea why Dawson isn't seeing the floor, but I am guessing Wojo has his reasons.
(D) Continue to play Derrick a lot of minutes because he understands the offense and isn't a complete revolving door on defense, even though he is a baaaaaddddd shooter. 

Eventually, I think Duane will start getting more minutes at the point.   However, as the roster is currently constructed, I don't see how Derrick doesn't get extended run for the foreseeable future. 

[brewcity77]

Sorry, hanging your hat on this guy for 30 plus minutes per game provides for many more losses. His defense is just OK. I have seen many guys blow right by him. He is not a great defensive player to make up for the huge offensive liabilities. He is "solid" defensively, but that does not warrant playing him as much as some view it.

Well, the problem is the alternative. Carlino is better offensively, but he's not even a sieve on defense. At least a sieve stops the big pieces of sediment. Duane is better offensively, but still a work in progress on defense. Dawson is worse offensively and worse defensively. And at the end of the day, most of the time two of these four will be out there together.

It's easy to say "let's play Carlino and Duane both 40" but that's just stupid. We all know that won't happen. And from a defensive perspective, that'd be suicide against any decent guards. We only have the players on this roster to work with, and Derrick, like it or not, is one of the better players from a net perspective on this roster. He's going to play. Some people may not like that, just like they didn't like it last year, but it's reality. Buzz looked at this roster and knew Derrick had to play. Wojo looked at this roster and knew Derrick had to play. When the season is all said and done, he will likely average 20-25 minutes.

Maybe, maybe when Luke gets back, we'll end up working more zone in, which will lessen the need for Derrick. He's our best man-on-man defender in the backcourt, but in a zone we could get away with sitting him more in favor of the better offensive players. But until we see that change, and especially until we see some actual effort out of some of the other guys that aren't playing defense, you're going to get all the Derrick you can handle.

[MU82]

When it comes to offense, I never expect consistency from Derrick.

I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.

The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.

The problem Wojo faces this season is that while Mayo and even Jake could play a little D if they focused on it, Derrick is the only perimeter defender on this year's roster who currently can stay reasonably close to his man. (Note that I said "currently." I'm hoping for improvement from JJJ and Duane.) So if Wojo takes Derrick off the floor, he has zero perimeter defenders. It's a difficult conundrum.

So far, I really have few complaints about how Wojo is dividing the backcourt minutes. He obviously is searching for the right combinations. I think he saw yesterday that Duane has the "want to" to be a good offensive player, be it at the 1 or 2. It sure would be nice if Duane would improve on D.

[MerrittsMustache]

I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.

The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.

The problem Wojo faces this season is that while Mayo and even Jake could play a little D if they focused on it, Derrick is the only perimeter defender on this year's roster who currently can stay reasonably close to his man. (Note that I said "currently." I'm hoping for improvement from JJJ and Duane.) So if Wojo takes Derrick off the floor, he has zero perimeter defenders. It's a difficult conundrum.

So far, I really have few complaints about how Wojo is dividing the backcourt minutes. He obviously is searching for the right combinations. I think he saw yesterday that Duane has the "want to" to be a good offensive player, be it at the 1 or 2. It sure would be nice if Duane would improve on D.

Agree completely. The good news is that it's easier to teach a player, especially in-season, to become a better defender than it is to teach a player to be a true threat offensively.

[Earl Tatum]

Does anyone know if there are any recruits for 2015 Wojo is looking at? Am thinking of a confident point
guard who would take over and run the offense. I hope Nick can do it. But 2 are better than 1.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Does anyone know if there are any recruits for 2015 Wojo is looking at? Am thinking of a confident point
guard who would take over and run the offense. I hope Nick can do it. But 2 are better than 1.

He's in on a few. MarQus Lovett matches what you are describing.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.

The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.

The problem Wojo faces this season is that while Mayo and even Jake could play a little D if they focused on it, Derrick is the only perimeter defender on this year's roster who currently can stay reasonably close to his man. (Note that I said "currently." I'm hoping for improvement from JJJ and Duane.) So if Wojo takes Derrick off the floor, he has zero perimeter defenders. It's a difficult conundrum.

So far, I really have few complaints about how Wojo is dividing the backcourt minutes. He obviously is searching for the right combinations. I think he saw yesterday that Duane has the "want to" to be a good offensive player, be it at the 1 or 2. It sure would be nice if Duane would improve on D.

My only problem with this thinking is that I've seen Derrick get burnt several times in the extended D we're playing this year too. If the difference between him and a guy like Duane or Sandy or even Dawson on defense is minimal (because they're all getting burnt to varying degrees), what's the point of playing him over any of them, much less heavy minutes?