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Author Topic: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.  (Read 25655 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2014, 10:29:34 AM »

Haha.

Structural racism in the United States is so much more nuanced than being able to say whether you have black friends or support an African American for President, but whatever. If this is what qualifies for you as discussion on race, I'll just sit back and enjoy it.

It doesn't nor did I say it did....I answered Rob's question.  Pretty simple.   You are the one extrapolating it to a discussion on race, that's on you....so sit back and enjoy it.

Pakuni

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2014, 10:34:25 AM »
How do you know that didn't happen but the kid, as the witnesses stated, went after the cop.  What exactly would you like him to do....the Jedi Mind Trick?  Some of you are unreal.

Because I've read Wilson's testimony.
I suggest you do the same. Anyone who does cannot honestly claim Wilson acted to diffuse the situation. His actions escalated it.

As a side note ... no one is suggesting that Brown handled things any better. The difference is that he's a dumb 18-year-old kid. Wilson is a professional who was trained to deal with situations like this. I don't think it's unreasonable to have higher expectations for a police officer.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2014, 10:35:20 AM »
The grand jury wasn't impaneled to investigate whether Darren Wilson is a bad cop.
My questions are based entirely off the transcript of Wilson's testimony.

Now, if you want me to hedge a guess or two, I'm happy to. 

This makes no sense, and contradicts his own testimony. He could have continued to follow them, pursue them, keep an eye on them, etc., without losing their location. He instead chose to approach them.

It's obvious you haven't read Wilson's testimony.
I have read the documents. And it's those documents - namely Wilson's own account - that lead me to the conclusion he acted horribly.


Then you haven't read the documents and your first statement is flat out incorrect.  I'd suggest you read them again and I'd also suggest you read whether he acted according to police procedure and was within the law on his actions.  The answers are yes.  Part of what the jury was impaneled to do was whether he acted lawfully and if he felt his life was in danger.  The jury said yes.  I'm sorry this doesn't square with you.  This isn't a movie or tv show.  People act in the real world conditions, his actions were deemed lawful and in accordance with his training.

keefe

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2014, 10:38:13 AM »
This is worth repeating.

For me, this isn't necessarily about Michael Brown, but about our current system and approach to police work.

I know cops spend hours and hours of training on combat and weapons. Maybe some of that time should be spent on community training. The best police work is done well before these types of incidents occur. We police our citizens by reacting to them. Maybe we should spend more time working WITH them.

I don't know the exact tactics, but the strategy shouldn't be to walk around and "bust" people, but rather be in the community and help keep people safe. Let's start with that as a goal, and then figure out the tactics.


Anyone authorized the use of lethal force must be held to a much higher standard. 


Death on call

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #79 on: November 25, 2014, 10:40:17 AM »
...he acted according to police procedure and was within the law on his actions.  The answers are yes.  Part of what the jury was impaneled to do was whether he acted lawfully and if he felt his life was in danger. The jury said yes.  I'm sorry this doesn't square with you.  This isn't a movie or tv show.  People act in the real world conditions, his actions were deemed lawful and in accordance with his training.

I'll say it again: I think we have a problem with our overall policing strategy and training.

That's doesn't mean anything in this specific case, but for me, it shines a huge spotlight on some institutional problems that we have.

Everything might have been "legal" and within training guidelines, but the training is flat out wrong.

Pakuni

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #80 on: November 25, 2014, 10:43:09 AM »
Then you haven't read the documents and your first statement is flat out incorrect.  I'd suggest you read them again and I'd also suggest you read whether he acted according to police procedure and was within the law on his actions.  The answers are yes.  Part of what the jury was impaneled to do was whether he acted lawfully and if he felt his life was in danger.  The jury said yes.  I'm sorry this doesn't square with you.  This isn't a movie or tv show.  People act in the real world conditions, his actions were deemed lawful and in accordance with his training.

Now you're just making things up.
The grand jury in no way found his actions "lawful and in accordance with his training."
A grand jury has never in the history of American jurisprudence made such a finding. That's not what a grand jury does.
The grand jury simply ruled there was no probable cause to determine whether Wilson had committed a crime.
Saying Wilson's actions were not criminal is not synonymous with saying he acted properly or in accordance with his training.

I'm having a hard time seeing why I should continue trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone who doesn't understand the facts and/or is unwilling to learn them.
I suppose I could cut-and-paste the portions of Wilson's testimony that show I'm relaying them correctly. Would that help you understand?

Golden Avalanche

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #81 on: November 25, 2014, 10:45:10 AM »
Why?  Policing is a two way street.  We have a good friend of ours that is on the Long Beach anti-gang task force.  He's Hispanic (oh no...I'm racist, how could we possibly have a Hispanic friend) and has to mix it up on his shift all the time.  Great guy, and he agrees that building relationships is key in the community and part of the proper policing.  No one is arguing this.  On the other hand, it takes two to tango and sometimes doing everything you can the other guy(s) don't particularly care and are going to do something that could put the officer or someone else in harm's way.  That's the reality of the world. 

I'd like to know specifically how this was bad policing based on BROWN'S actions.  Please, you and Pakuni address the other side of the dance party, not just the officer.  The officer, according to the investigations, acted properly, within the law and within the training he was given.....by the way.  Sometimes, the other guy doesn't act appropriately, be it on drugs or because he just committed a crime, and it resorts to these kinds of things.

But what I think would be really cool is to put a graph up that shows the number of police killings by country.  It's like internet access in S. Korea and people asking why it isn't the same in the US.  Couldn't possible be because of the sizes of the country in geography and population....nah. 

People are funny....or as Gruber would say....stupid.

Your default reaction to chide people who don't share your viewpoint (whether wholly or partially) as stupid is distasteful.

Ellisium

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #82 on: November 25, 2014, 10:46:32 AM »
I'll say it again: I think we have a problem with our overall policing strategy and training.

That's doesn't mean anything in this specific case, but for me, it shines a huge spotlight on some institutional problems that we have.

Everything might have been "legal" and within training guidelines, but the training is flat out wrong.

The Ferguson police chief needs to go.  He handled the situation poorly by not getting his department involved in the community, not hiring enough black officers, and wasting American tax dollars on useless military equipment viewed as toys in a macho man's world.  Not to mention, when things came to a boiling point, he stood up on stage like a deer in headlights.  Incompetent to the bone, he was more or less a Walgreens security cop in power.  Unqualified, trite in his non-actions ..... the situation boils down to gross mismanagement all around.  Lead in your community ...... don't sit behind a desk and live in a status quo world.  Push yourself. (portly man this chief was by the way - some walking around Ferguson could have helped him too - win/win!!!)

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #83 on: November 25, 2014, 10:46:36 AM »
Wow, you just bought that hook, line, and sinker. I mean, you're not even making it hard.

This will be my last statement to you: 


I truly hope Augh you get out of life what you are looking for and all the injustices you feel are there are solved.  My wife and I look forward to our continued close, personal friendships with diverse people of thought, race, religion, sexual preference, etc.  We enjoy watching our son date someone that isn't his race....because it doesn't matter.  We enjoy having our kids in a school in which they are a minority....because it doesn't matter.  We enjoy providing money to causes that support people, regardless of ethnicity, race, religion, creed, etc. At the end of the day, we want to support good people that aspire to do good things and are willing to work hard, but ultimately do things for themselves in the long run. 

God Bless you Augh, but just like I refuse to converse with BrandX for calling my wife a liar (he is a vile human being), I'm not going to tolerate your comments either.   

Aughnanure

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #84 on: November 25, 2014, 11:01:12 AM »
This will be my last statement to you:  


I truly hope Augh you get out of life what you are looking for and all the injustices you feel are there are solved.  My wife and I look forward to our continued close, personal friendships with diverse people of thought, race, religion, sexual preference, etc.  We enjoy watching our son date someone that isn't his race....because it doesn't matter.  We enjoy having our kids in a school in which they are a minority....because it doesn't matter.  We enjoy providing money to causes that support people, regardless of ethnicity, race, religion, creed, etc. At the end of the day, we want to support good people that aspire to do good things and are willing to work hard, but ultimately do things for themselves in the long run.  

God Bless you Augh, but just like I refuse to converse with BrandX for calling my wife a liar (he is a vile human being), I'm not going to tolerate your comments either.  

Classic holier than though BS.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

g0lden3agle

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2014, 11:09:36 AM »
Classic holier than though BS.

So Chico's is a racist, and when he defends himself with how his lifestyle is anything but he's holier than thou... Man he can't win can he?

Ellisium

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2014, 11:16:02 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gYMkEMCHtJ4?color2=FBE9EC&amp;amp;version=3" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/gYMkEMCHtJ4?color2=FBE9EC&amp;amp;version=3</a>

🏀

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #87 on: November 25, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »
Is there going to be any release of the interviews and evidence the grand jury deliberated over?

I'd like to see it to really know, but if you want to make the decision to assault anyone that has lethal force, it's not going to end up well for you.

keefe

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Ellisium

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Pakuni

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2014, 11:52:18 AM »
Is there going to be any release of the interviews and evidence the grand jury deliberated over?

I'd like to see it to really know, but if you want to make the decision to assault anyone that has lethal force, it's not going to end up well for you.

The documents/evidence/transcripts were released:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/25/366507379/ferguson-docs-how-the-grand-jury-reached-a-decision#docs

keefe

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2014, 12:33:08 PM »
Nice flight simulator !!!  When is this coming to Dave and Buster's ?

Uh...that's actual Warthog footage with several live fire runs. Still the most fun you can have with your pants on


Death on call

keefe

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2014, 12:37:50 PM »


Death on call


brandx

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2014, 01:34:30 PM »
This will be my last statement to you: 


I truly hope Augh you get out of life what you are looking for and all the injustices you feel are there are solved.  My wife and I look forward to our continued close, personal friendships with diverse people of thought, race, religion, sexual preference, etc.  We enjoy watching our son date someone that isn't his race....because it doesn't matter.  We enjoy having our kids in a school in which they are a minority....because it doesn't matter.  We enjoy providing money to causes that support people, regardless of ethnicity, race, religion, creed, etc. At the end of the day, we want to support good people that aspire to do good things and are willing to work hard, but ultimately do things for themselves in the long run. 

God Bless you Augh, but just like I refuse to converse with BrandX for calling my wife a liar (he is a vile human being), I'm not going to tolerate your comments either.   

Once again - I never called your wife a liar. But just pretend you're Fox News and keep repeating it till people think it is true.

Pakuni

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2014, 02:10:25 PM »
Never mind.
Too much amateur psychology on my part with this one.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 02:37:47 PM by Pakuni »

WarriorInNYC

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2014, 03:12:58 PM »
I'm going to try and limit this single post to my only social media/internet post on this subject, lets see how that goes.

I think the one big takeaway I get from this situation, is that police officers do need to be monitored more frequently.  And by that I mean, all cops in squad cars must have dash cams that also take in some kind of audio.  I bet go pros attached to cops also would help.

I believe the above would help for 2 reasons.  There are police officers out that exist out there that take advantage of the power they are given in ways that are not necessary, criminal, and sometimes evil.  There are also police officers out there that are put in nearly impossible situations in which it can be easy to find crowds of individuals pointing the finger at that officer in blame.

I personally think the evidence here cannot allow Officer Wilson to be charged here with anything.  The evidence (I have not gone through it myself, have only heard the statement from the prosecutor from last night) just does not add up to murder charges.

However, this would have been a lot more clear had there been some kind of device that Officer Wilson had that recorded this.  I personally think that in this situation, having a GoPro attached to him would help clear his name. 

I do also think that having a GoPro attached to other police officers would help cut down on police brutality and corruption, in both indicating the criminal behavior in video/audio as well as providing additional reasons why cops should not partake in such behaviors (they would know that their actions are recorded).

That said, I'm not going to pretend I'm a policing expert or anything.  I'm not sure how much things like this would cost, or what kind of legality there is in having cops practically doubling as walking video cameras (when responding to calls in private businesses/personal homes, or even just grabbing a coffee at Starbucks). 

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Ferguson Decision to be released @ 8pm - same time as MU game.
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2014, 03:14:30 PM »
Hello and welcome to another locked political thread.

But.  We're trying something new:

Click here:  http://muscoopolitics.proboards.com/thread/1/politics-forum

And continue here:

http://muscoopolitics.proboards.com/thread/2/ferguson-decision