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Author Topic: Buzz the GM  (Read 5000 times)

Lennys Tap

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Buzz the GM
« on: November 24, 2014, 04:40:02 PM »
A popular (albeit paranoid) position on the board last year was that Buzz played guys that he knew were inferior to try to stick it to the administration. It was obvious to this group that John Dawson, JJJ and Steve Taylor Jr. were better than the guys ahead of them. The possibility that those guys weren't good enough or, at least in JJJ and Steve's case, tough enough, was laughed at. I haven't given up on them, but it's pretty clear that as of right now, almost a full year later, those guys still aren't good enough or tough enough. The doghouse they ended up in last year is the same one John has been in all season and that JJJ and Steve found themselves in early due to their uninspired play vs Omaha. Buzz brought em here, and that's on him as GM, but based on where they are after a full year of maturing physically and mentally, thinking that they were ready last year was lunacy.


Pakuni

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 04:45:39 PM »
A popular (albeit paranoid) position on the board last year was that Buzz played guys that he knew were inferior to try to stick it to the administration. It was obvious to this group that John Dawson, JJJ and Steve Taylor Jr. were better than the guys ahead of them. The possibility that those guys weren't good enough or, at least in JJJ and Steve's case, tough enough, was laughed at. I haven't given up on them, but it's pretty clear that as of right now, almost a full year later, those guys still aren't good enough or tough enough. The doghouse they ended up in last year is the same one John has been in all season and that JJJ and Steve found themselves in early due to their uninspired play vs Omaha. Buzz brought em here, and that's on him as GM, but based on where they are after a full year of maturing physically and mentally, thinking that they were ready last year was lunacy.

Popular is a stretch. It's a conspiracy theory offered by a very small group, and it's been received mostly with derision by the large majority of posters here.
It may be fair to point out, however, that some of the early season growing pains we're seeing now are directly related to the lack of consistent playing time most of these guys saw last year. Of course, it wasn't Buzz's job in 2013-14 to get those guys playing time so they're be ready for 2014-15, but the inexperience and lack of cohesiveness is certainly an issue with this year's squad.

Ellisium

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 04:49:46 PM »
A popular (albeit paranoid) position on the board last year was that Buzz played guys that he knew were inferior to try to stick it to the administration. It was obvious to this group that John Dawson, JJJ and Steve Taylor Jr. were better than the guys ahead of them. The possibility that those guys weren't good enough or, at least in JJJ and Steve's case, tough enough, was laughed at. I haven't given up on them, but it's pretty clear that as of right now, almost a full year later, those guys still aren't good enough or tough enough. The doghouse they ended up in last year is the same one John has been in all season and that JJJ and Steve found themselves in early due to their uninspired play vs Omaha. Buzz brought em here, and that's on him as GM, but based on where they are after a full year of maturing physically and mentally, thinking that they were ready last year was lunacy.



I think Buzz's "eye for talent" wasn't 20/20 when it came to recruiting high school players.  The most successful players under his tenure were JUCOs who had already showcased their talent at the collegiate level.  Vander Blue was his best recruit out of high school.  Other than that, the cupboard is pretty bare.  Many of his recruits were garbage .....Mbao .... Roseborro....

dgies9156

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 04:51:21 PM »
It may be fair to point out, however, that some of the early season growing pains we're seeing now are directly related to the lack of consistent playing time most of these guys saw last year. Of course, it wasn't Buzz's job in 2013-14 to get those guys playing time so they're be ready for 2014-15, but the inexperience and lack of cohesiveness is certainly an issue with this year's squad.

+1000000

When your team in 2013-2014 was toast, as we were going into the last six games, prudence says begin working with the coming year. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but as I have said over and over again elsewhere, once last season was lost (and c'mon, we all pretty much knew it was in the last three weeks or so), start working with the returning team. We didn't do that amid a pipedream that suggested hey, we might just make the tournament.

Thanks Hillbilly. >:(

willie warrior

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 05:03:54 PM »
Yeah, he was the GM all right, the "Goober Manipulator"
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 05:10:11 PM »
+1000000

When your team in 2013-2014 was toast, as we were going into the last six games, prudence says begin working with the coming year. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but as I have said over and over again elsewhere, once last season was lost (and c'mon, we all pretty much knew it was in the last three weeks or so), start working with the returning team. We didn't do that amid a pipedream that suggested hey, we might just make the tournament.

Thanks Hillbilly. >:(

First of all, the season wasn't toast with 3 weeks left. We lost a bunch of overtime games in those 3 weeks that made it toast, but...

Secondly, if Dawson ran the point, JJJ played the 2 and Steve got big minutes at the 4 for the last freakin three weeks they'd be any different than the guys we saw (or in John's case didn't see) against Omaha? These guys have had almost 8 months since then.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 05:13:17 PM »
I think Buzz's "eye for talent" wasn't 20/20 when it came to recruiting high school players.  The most successful players under his tenure were JUCOs who had already showcased their talent at the collegiate level.  Vander Blue was his best recruit out of high school.  Other than that, the cupboard is pretty bare.  Many of his recruits were garbage .....Mbao .... Roseborro....

Not to mention that he passed on "difference makers" that wanted to come to MU like Jeremy Lamb and DJ Newbill.

tower912

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 05:14:26 PM »
Playing an extra 10 mpg over the last 6 games of last year would not have made Deonte, JJJ, or STjr better defenders this year.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

The Lens

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 05:21:14 PM »
First of all, the season wasn't toast with 3 weeks left. We lost a bunch of overtime games in those 3 weeks that made it toast, but...


Even after being run out of the gym @Nova we were still 9-7 in conference with 2 games to play.  We lost those last two games in 2OT each.  Then we lost by 3 in the first round of the BET.

When was Buzz supposed to throw in the towel?

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History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

GOO

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 05:21:34 PM »
Popular is a stretch. It's a conspiracy theory offered by a very small group, and it's been received mostly with derision by the large majority of posters here.
It may be fair to point out, however, that some of the early season growing pains we're seeing now are directly related to the lack of consistent playing time most of these guys saw last year. Of course, it wasn't Buzz's job in 2013-14 to get those guys playing time so they're be ready for 2014-15, but the inexperience and lack of cohesiveness is certainly an issue with this year's squad.

Indeed.  Kind of a crazy theory that has been proven wrong.

Pakuni

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 05:21:53 PM »
Playing an extra 10 mpg over the last 6 games of last year would not have made Deonte, JJJ, or STjr better defenders this year.   

You know that?
Not saying you're necessarily wrong, but you can't possibly know. Most tend to get better defensively - especially in team defense - by playing. I can't think of many MU players over the years who were as good defensively in their first years than their last.

Again, I don't fault Buzz for this. His job was to try to win games last year, not get guys ready for this year.

GGGG

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 05:23:32 PM »
I think Buzz's "eye for talent" wasn't 20/20 when it came to recruiting high school players.  The most successful players under his tenure were JUCOs who had already showcased their talent at the collegiate level.  Vander Blue was his best recruit out of high school.  Other than that, the cupboard is pretty bare.  Many of his recruits were garbage .....Mbao .... Roseborro....


Yep.  Too many recruiting misses...too many scholarships offered on "potential."  I said it last year that he was paying for the recruiting mistakes that he made.

NersEllenson

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 05:24:32 PM »
First of all, the season wasn't toast with 3 weeks left. We lost a bunch of overtime games in those 3 weeks that made it toast, but...

Secondly, if Dawson ran the point, JJJ played the 2 and Steve got big minutes at the 4 for the last freakin three weeks they'd be any different than the guys we saw (or in John's case didn't see) against Omaha? These guys have had almost 8 months since then.

Hi Lenny - Game experience matters.  Nothing simulates games, like games.  Overall your point may be on target (though I disagree that the season wasn't lost - it was evident it was going to be a disaster by December 1 - and absolutely a disaster after the Creighton debacle on January 1.)

You may very well be right that Dawson, JJJ and Steve weren't ready for more action last season - yet where the frustration point was, that the "vets" they were behind had abysmal production.  Historically abysmal.  Some of us simply would have liked to see the alternative given the same opportunity to see if it could have made a difference - as it did in the Georgetown game.  Give them a few more games of legitimate opportunity - we were losing anyway against all good teams.  If they didn't juice the team any, then fine, go back to the vets and see if you can get it turned around in time for the Big East Tourney.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

brandx

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 05:29:45 PM »
First of all, the season wasn't toast with 3 weeks left. We lost a bunch of overtime games in those 3 weeks that made it toast, but...

Secondly, if Dawson ran the point, JJJ played the 2 and Steve got big minutes at the 4 for the last freakin three weeks they'd be any different than the guys we saw (or in John's case didn't see) against Omaha? These guys have had almost 8 months since then.

Technically right - but we all knew the season was toast early. We didn't beat a good team all year (Xavier was probably the best team we beat and they had 13 losses).

Lennys Tap

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 05:30:58 PM »
Hi Lenny - Game experience matters.  Nothing simulates games, like games.  Overall your point may be on target (though I disagree that the season wasn't lost - it was evident it was going to be a disaster by December 1 - and absolutely a disaster after the Creighton debacle on January 1.)

You may very well be right that Dawson, JJJ and Steve weren't ready for more action last season - yet where the frustration point was, that the "vets" they were behind had abysmal production.  Historically abysmal.  Some of us simply would have liked to see the alternative given the same opportunity to see if it could have made a difference - as it did in the Georgetown game.  Give them a few more games of legitimate opportunity - we were losing anyway against all good teams.  If they didn't juice the team any, then fine, go back to the vets and see if you can get it turned around in time for the Big East Tourney.

Hey Ners - while I don't agree (I think Buzz knew early we weren't very good and had zero margin for error) I think your present position is a defensible one. Happy Thanksgiving.

chapman

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 05:41:44 PM »
I think Buzz's "eye for talent" wasn't 20/20 when it came to recruiting high school players.  The most successful players under his tenure were JUCOs who had already showcased their talent at the collegiate level.  Vander Blue was his best recruit out of high school.  

I lean to the development side more than recruiting.  JUCOs are already developed or well on their way, Buzz could not have Blue fail so he received a disproportionate amount of attention...then you're left with a bunch of flat or plateaued  trajectories or top 100 players who transferred with varied levels of success later.  How well with Wojo develop these players?  What about his own players?  Time will tell.

jakeec

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 07:04:18 PM »
Yea, Buzz the GM was something talked about a lot.  All I know is the team is awful right now , but there are a lot of top 100 players on this team.  Shows you either the rankings were wrong or something else is wrong.  I think the program should be fine in the future though.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 07:15:26 PM »
Yea, Buzz the GM was something talked about a lot.  All I know is the team is awful right now , but there are a lot of top 100 players on this team.  Shows you either the rankings were wrong or something else is wrong.  I think the program should be fine in the future though.

Wait what? Did I read this correctly? You never say nice stuff about MU
Maigh Eo for Sam

Logi4three

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 07:31:29 PM »
Hi Lenny - Game experience matters.  Nothing simulates games, like games.  Overall your point may be on target (though I disagree that the season wasn't lost - it was evident it was going to be a disaster by December 1 - and absolutely a disaster after the Creighton debacle on January 1.)

You may very well be right that Dawson, JJJ and Steve weren't ready for more action last season - yet where the frustration point was, that the "vets" they were behind had abysmal production.  Historically abysmal.  Some of us simply would have liked to see the alternative given the same opportunity to see if it could have made a difference - as it did in the Georgetown game.  Give them a few more games of legitimate opportunity - we were losing anyway against all good teams.  If they didn't juice the team any, then fine, go back to the vets and see if you can get it turned around in time for the Big East Tourney.

What is this ish?  I just bid on Dawson's locker for you because of your unwaivering support for him.  Damn it!  Anyone need a locker?
http://gomarquette.cstvauctions.com/auctiondisplay.cfm?auctionnbr=93245

Ellisium

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 07:44:35 PM »
What is this ish?  I just bid on Dawson's locker for you because of your unwaivering support for him.  Damn it!  Anyone need a locker?
http://gomarquette.cstvauctions.com/auctiondisplay.cfm?auctionnbr=93245


LoL

If you give that locker to Sultan, the size of his home will double. Just make sure his lot is big enough to handle the expansion before you hand it over. 

GGGG

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2014, 07:47:46 PM »
LoL

If you give that locker to Sultan, the size of his home will double. Just make sure his lot is big enough to handle the expansion before you hand it over. 

Another fanboi?  Sweet!  Not sure you will be as entertaining as willie but I sense potential.

Nevada233

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Re: Buzz the GM
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2014, 09:25:29 PM »
What is this ish?  I just bid on Dawson's locker for you because of your unwaivering support for him.  Damn it!  Anyone need a locker?
http://gomarquette.cstvauctions.com/auctiondisplay.cfm?auctionnbr=93245


Thats a good one... He prolly wont need it much longer anyway...