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Author Topic: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America  (Read 20211 times)

Aughnanure

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 03:04:56 PM »
Lot of dangerous socialist ideas in this thread

Are you scared to leave America?
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

Aughnanure

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2014, 03:06:26 PM »
Problem is, you never want to prioritize.

Milwaukee will spend $193 million on a streetcar in MKE, plus various infrastructure $$ to accommodate that?  This is a large spend for very little utility.  What else could that $$ be spent on to solve real problems?

It's worked out quite well for Portland. When cities stop investing in themselves, they start to decay.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

brandx

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2014, 03:15:33 PM »
Are you scared to leave America?

Just a guess - but I think that was sarcasm by jesmu.

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2014, 03:19:57 PM »
It's worked out quite well for Portland. When cities stop investing in themselves, they start to decay.

Maybe they should work on upgrading their existing infrastructure that is decaying.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2014, 04:03:26 PM »
I agree with you, rara. Let's see the ROI on building the streetcar. It may add to the esthetic value of Milwaukee (which I am all for), but it still has to return some significant monetary value.

As opposed to a new arena, which could spur a billion $$$ investment by private companies in the city (although we still need to see concrete plans).

There's a stat, where every mile of light rail / street car line that is installed a $1billion dollars of private investment follows. 
Charlotte, NC sometime this century added a 1 mile line.

brandx

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2014, 04:19:09 PM »
There's a stat, where every mile of light rail / street car line that is installed a $1billion dollars of private investment follows. 
Charlotte, NC sometime this century added a 1 mile line.

Maybe I'm not getting what you are saying, but I meant that the arena would generate the $1 billion - not the streetcar.

jficke13

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2014, 04:36:39 PM »
There's a stat, where every mile of light rail / street car line that is installed a $1billion dollars of private investment follows. 
Charlotte, NC sometime this century added a 1 mile line.

I would like to see this stat.

Did a one mile long light rail from point A to point B (one mile away) in Charlotte really spur $1 billion in private investment?

mu-rara

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2014, 04:56:30 PM »
Where did I ever advocate for a streetcar? Quit building strawmen.
You mentioned priorities of a society.  The streetcar in MKE is an example of out of line priorities.  $193 million plus infrastructure for a system that has very low utility.  What greater social ills could be addressed by these $$. 

At least the yuppies will have transport from Elsa's to the lower east side.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2014, 05:05:53 PM »
You mentioned priorities of a society.  The streetcar in MKE is an example of out of line priorities.  $193 million plus infrastructure for a system that has very low utility.  What greater social ills could be addressed by these $$. 

At least the yuppies will have transport from Elsa's to the lower east side.

Seems reasonable.


WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2014, 05:14:22 PM »
It's worked out quite well for Portland. When cities stop investing in themselves, they start to decay.

  Spent last week in Portland and am a frequent visitor. The light rail is a gem and heavily used. You can go from the airport baggage area to a downtown hotel for @ $ 2.40. Most hotels are within a block or two from a stop. Downtown , the Pearl and Rose Quarter ( where Trailblazers play)  are in a free zone..  Have not heard of any major infrastructure issues in Portland.

mu-rara

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2014, 07:53:29 PM »
  Spent last week in Portland and am a frequent visitor. The light rail is a gem and heavily used. You can go from the airport baggage area to a downtown hotel for @ $ 2.40. Most hotels are within a block or two from a stop. Downtown , the Pearl and Rose Quarter ( where Trailblazers play)  are in a free zone..  Have not heard of any major infrastructure issues in Portland.
I am assuming this is a complete system serving most of the city.  What Mayor Barrett is proposing is roughly 2 miles of trolley, serving a small portion of the east side.  Need to re-route much of the telecom serving downtown due to vicinity of old AT&T building, adding millions more to the project.  It is a cluster.

PVMagic

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2014, 05:48:05 AM »
The shortage is largely due to medical students flocking away from primary care careers.  Reimbursement is pretty poor (compared to subspecialties) for family medicine, general pediatrics, etc., and with loads of debt many students who may fill those gaps chose other specialties; I had several classmates who considered primary care but chose other routes in part for this reason.

I don't know anything about light rail.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2014, 07:42:57 AM »
I would like to see this stat.

Did a one mile long light rail from point A to point B (one mile away) in Charlotte really spur $1 billion in private investment?

I couldn't find the exact stat.  $1bil is probably overstated on my part (misremembered).  3-4 years ago New Haven was discussing funding a study on installation of a 1-mile stretch of light rail and I had read it in one of the many articles on the subject.
But I found several examples online in a quick search on "private investment generated by light rail".  They always pay-off and then some.

On expansion of the Metro into the DC suburbs including a blurb on impact in Portland & Seattle:
Riding light rail and streetcars into better communities
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/riding-light-rail-and-streetcars-into-better-communities/2014/11/14/58fd98b2-6a86-11e4-a31c-77759fc1eacc_story.html
Modern streetcars in this country have a proven track record. There have been outstanding success stories. Portland, Ore., and Seattle stand out. Portland’s first-phase streetcar line cost about $100 million to build but resulted in more than $3.5 billion in private investment in a decade. The first modern streetcar in Seattle, going from downtown to an obsolete industrial area to the north, in a mere decade has resulted in Amazon moving its corporate headquarters there, a biotech cluster anchored by the University of Washington Medical School and thousands of new residences.
Streetcars have shown that the corridors they traverse redevelop rapidly, which did not happen with buses. Why? Streetcar lines are permanent, signaling to the private market that the transportation system is not going to change tomorrow. Also, middle-class Americans like streetcars. Consumers who have a choice ride streetcars and other rail transit but generally not buses.

On Minneapolis-St. Paul:
http://www.dot.gov/fastlane/central-corridor-light-rail-links-twin-cities-each-other-and-opportunity
The Central Corridor has also been an engine of economic development; since the line was announced, it has helped attract more than a hundred economic development projects that are planned or being built and generated billions of dollars in private investment.

On Dallas, TX:
http://www.dart.org/about/inmotion/march14/3.asp
The expansion to date has generated $7.4 billion in regional economic activity, creating more than 54,000 person-years of employment that paid in excess of $3.3 billion in salaries, wages and benefits.
http://www.metro-magazine.com/news/story/2014/01/studies-tout-dallas-light-rail-s-impact.aspx
The region’s long-term investment in the Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) light rail system has generated more than $7.4 billion in regional economic impact, according to a new study of the agency’s capital spending between 2003 and 2013.


mu-rara

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2014, 09:03:36 AM »
I am sorry for starting the light rail discussion.  I was only illustrating the priorities comment from ??? (not sure).

Back to the doctors discussion......

hairy worthen

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2014, 09:25:32 AM »
Maybe they should work on upgrading their existing infrastructure that is decaying.

Right, like an underground sewer system that pumps thousands maybe millions of gallons of raw sewage into Lake Michigan every year and backs up people's basements.

(Oh no, I am posting in a political discussion, Icky,  bad.)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 09:40:55 AM by hairy worthen »

Aughnanure

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2014, 09:36:22 AM »
I am assuming this is a complete system serving most of the city.  What Mayor Barrett is proposing is roughly 2 miles of trolley, serving a small portion of the east side.  Need to re-route much of the telecom serving downtown due to vicinity of old AT&T building, adding millions more to the project.  It is a cluster.

Ummm, that's how they all start. You just don't suddenly get an entire transportation system. It takes time, but that doesn't mean you just give up. How middle America fights against public transportation is just sad.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

Coleman

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2014, 09:44:54 AM »
Ummm, that's how they all start. You just don't suddenly get an entire transportation system. It takes time, but that doesn't mean you just give up. How middle America fights against public transportation is just sad.

Right. I don't know the specifics of MKE's light rail proposal and have no opinion on the matter.

But Chicago didn't just flip a switch and get world-class public transit one day. It has taken over 100 years to build, incrementally, over time.

hairy worthen

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2014, 09:49:47 AM »
Ummm, that's how they all start. You just don't suddenly get an entire transportation system. It takes time, but that doesn't mean you just give up. How middle America fights against public transportation is just sad.
Ummm, you act like Milwaukee has no public transportation. It does. It’s not public transportation; it’s the type and scope of public transportation that the proposed light rail would be.  Not a lot of bang for the buck. If the public transportation in downtown Milwaukee is so poor, there are other ways to approach the problem.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2014, 11:21:56 AM »
I would like to see this stat.

Did a one mile long light rail from point A to point B (one mile away) in Charlotte really spur $1 billion in private investment?

Found some more.

Charlotte does light rail right
http://grist.org/article/2010-06-25-charlotte-does-light-rail-right/

City bonds could open new routes to Research Park jobs, sidewalks to light-rail stops and bikeways to downtown!
http://universitycitypartners.org/city-bonds-could-open-new-routes-to-research-park-jobs-sidewalks-to-light-rail-stops-and-bikeways-to-downtown/
"The original Blue Line has led to an estimated $1.5 billion in private investment."

swoopem

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2014, 11:53:38 AM »
Even Detroit is building a 4 mile light rail system (to begin with, it'll expand later). The project started this past spring and I, for one, can't wait for it to be complete.
Bring back FFP!!!

brandx

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2014, 04:25:25 PM »
I am sorry for starting the light rail discussion.  I was only illustrating the priorities comment from ??? (not sure).

Back to the doctors discussion......

No need to be sorry. It opened an interesting discussion even though I don't have a strong view one way or the other. Generally, I think that culture and adding to the aesthetics of a city are worth using tax dollars, but I can understand the opposite argument as well.

Eldon

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2014, 04:44:16 PM »
What purpose do streetcars serve? They are glorified buses IMO.

Heavy rail and, to a lesser extent, light rail, can go places that a bus cannot (e.g., under ground). They can also carry more passengers per trip than a bus.

But a street car? Someone convince why a streetcar/trolley is better than a bus?

I'm all for public transit improvements. In fact, one area of public transit that doesnt get enough attention is bus rapid transit, as exeplified in Bogota, Colombia. To my knowledge, no American cities are talking about this (except Kansas City)

tower912

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2014, 05:25:42 PM »
What purpose do streetcars serve? They are glorified buses IMO.

Heavy rail and, to a lesser extent, light rail, can go places that a bus cannot (e.g., under ground). They can also carry more passengers per trip than a bus.

But a street car? Someone convince why a streetcar/trolley is better than a bus?

I'm all for public transit improvements. In fact, one area of public transit that doesnt get enough attention is bus rapid transit, as exeplified in Bogota, Colombia. To my knowledge, no American cities are talking about this (except Kansas City)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Grand_Rapids)
The BRT experiment is alive and well here in Grand Rapids.   Operational for the last 3 months.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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mu-rara

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2014, 05:54:39 PM »
What purpose do streetcars serve? They are glorified buses IMO.

Heavy rail and, to a lesser extent, light rail, can go places that a bus cannot (e.g., under ground). They can also carry more passengers per trip than a bus.

But a street car? Someone convince why a streetcar/trolley is better than a bus?

I'm all for public transit improvements. In fact, one area of public transit that doesnt get enough attention is bus rapid transit, as exeplified in Bogota, Colombia. To my knowledge, no American cities are talking about this (except Kansas City)
Milwaukee had light rail before it was light rail.   It was called a street car.  I think that service ended in 1958 because the city needed the flexibility afforded by the bus system.  If there was such a demand for the service that Mayor Barrett is demanding, a  bus route could provide it at a fraction of the cost.  (Aren't buses mass transit?)

As to the comment about heavy rail, the infrastructure for that was built along with the growth of the city.  Retrofitting a system like into a city the size of Milwaukee doesn't make economic sense.   Milwaukee doesn't have the the scale to support it anyway.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Interesting insight into becoming a doctor in America
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2014, 10:39:04 PM »
Milwaukee had light rail before it was light rail.   It was called a street car.  I think that service ended in 1958 because the city needed the flexibility afforded by the bus system.  If there was such a demand for the service that Mayor Barrett is demanding, a  bus route could provide it at a fraction of the cost.  (Aren't buses mass transit?)

As to the comment about heavy rail, the infrastructure for that was built along with the growth of the city.  Retrofitting a system like into a city the size of Milwaukee doesn't make economic sense.   Milwaukee doesn't have the the scale to support it anyway.

I'm not an expert on the street car project, so I can't speak to it without making a bunch of assumptions, which is stupid.

But, I will say this: Municipal infrastructure is really tough to measure with just dollars and cents. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of the street car per se, but evaluating it simply from a short term budgetary perspective is short-sighted.

True infrastructure is built with future needs in mind, so realistically, it's never going to make economic sense until you have hindsight to look back on it.