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Author Topic: Grinders  (Read 15508 times)

brandx

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2014, 04:15:11 PM »
Say what you want, but the guys that bought into what Buzz was doing played hard.  Getting out efforted was a rare event in the Williams era.  Even last year's team played hard.

On the contrary, Duke basketball may be a lot of things, but I don't think using the word 'physical' would ever be near the top of potential descriptive words for their play.

This team needs some edge in my opinion.

Going 6'6", 6'4" and 6'4" across the front line means guys are going to shoot layups all game. Playing physical doesn't make you taller.

willie warrior

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2014, 05:52:44 PM »
Somebody start a poll: Grinders; New Orleans Muffaletta Sandwiches; or real Philly Cheesesteak. Now there would really be a tough pick.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

source?

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2014, 06:19:25 PM »
Grinders are real good when made with Italian Beef on Jewish rye bread.

Grits are not good. At. All.

My Connecticut mother did this boy a great disservice by calling subs grinders the whole time I was growing up. People in WI look at you like you have two heads when use that one around here.

Texas Western

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2014, 07:55:50 PM »
JJJ's defense in that game was reminiscent of Jerel. Did a good job of jumping lanes, getting steals, but I'm not sure it was actually good defense. When you try to jump lanes and miss, you just end up out of position. That hurt Jerel from time to time, but on a team where you don't have other solid defenders like James and Matthews along side you and guys that will stick to their assignments down low like Burke and Hayward, those mistakes will be amplified. Sadly, good defense is not measured by steals but rather stops. Steals are great, but that shouldn't be your primary way to stop your opponent, and right now it seems to be the only way JJJ knows how.

They may not have been the most acclaimed players, but what I wouldn't give for this team to have a Maurice Acker and Dwight Burke on the roster. Smart players that just did their job. We don't have enough of that.
Thanks for this insight . When you go for the big plays and miss your out of position frequently. I do like it when he makes the steals though.

MU82

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2014, 11:37:07 PM »
I've said all along that the problem isn't the talent, but the mix of talent. We have no center and one power forward who has shown he cannot play the position on defense. Steve played 17 minutes last game because of his refusal to play defense which means that Juan was our only center/PF for the majority of the game. No coach is going to win with that. Even against Omaha.

On the perimeter, we have skinny guys who don't have solid defensive fundamentals. Their quickness will create turnovers, but they were either never taught by the previous coach how to play 'D' or they don't want to do it. Our previous coach spent the majority of his time teaching these guys how to play defense and we see the results.

I will judge Wojo when he is coaching guys that he recruited. Then, if we end up with a mix like this - which I don't think we will - it will be on him. Right now the makeup of the team is 100% on the hillbilly.

With Otule, Davante, and Jamil waiting in the middle, guards had to think twice about going into the lane. There is no fear when the big man is only 6'6".

Superior analysis.

It's kind of like a small orchestra. You can't have 8 tubas, one string instrument and no percussion. Even if all 8 of  the tuba players were prodigies as teenagers, it still makes for a piss-poor sound without the proper instruments complementing them.

We have zero interior defenders, few if any natural rebounders and a bunch of perimeter defenders who are trying to learn on the fly. So yeah, if it makes you feel better, check off the names of all those top-100 high school players and pretend they should make a great team. And then get real.

Watching this game, it's little surprise that Wojo is willing to live with Derrick's offensive shortcomings. At least when Derrick is on the court, we have one solid, positional perimeter defender. I didn't say great or elite, I said solid. And I give Wojo credit for getting Derrick the hell out of the game when we needed to make free throws.

This just in: It is going to be a rough season. Yes, college hoops is a guard's game, but when none of your guards is elite and you have no interior defense or rebounding, it does no good to have 7 of your 9 guys as guards even if once upon a time some of them were in somebody's top 100.
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mattyv1908

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2014, 11:58:37 PM »
Going 6'6", 6'4" and 6'4" across the front line means guys are going to shoot layups all game. Playing physical doesn't make you taller.

I think this team has more size (or at least the same) as Burke, Lazar, Acker, Cubillan and a very raw Butler and didn't give up the amount of layups all season as this team has through four games.
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CTWarrior

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2014, 06:49:19 AM »
I think this team has more size (or at least the same) as Burke, Lazar, Acker, Cubillan and a very raw Butler and didn't give up the amount of layups all season as this team has through four games.

The other big thing is that the whole team has to hit the boards.  Anderson and Taylor are getting their share of rebounds, but no help from elsewhere.  And despite our quickness, our guards can't keep the guards from the likes of Omaha and NJIT in front of them.  I think this season has to be all about improvement, and not too much about wins and losses. 
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2014, 07:55:13 AM »
Maybe we need some twerkers, aina?

TTST, I'm really a badger fan

KenoshaWarrior

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2014, 08:24:25 AM »
Rural American Know How



nice

my 75 year old neighbor told me he would sell GRIT as a little kid in rural pennsylvania

brewcity77

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2014, 08:38:50 AM »
I think this team has more size (or at least the same) as Burke, Lazar, Acker, Cubillan and a very raw Butler and didn't give up the amount of layups all season as this team has through four games.

That team was probably Buzz's most impressive coaching performance. Not just because of what he got out of them, but because of how he did it. First of all, Lazar was a stud. Kid finished second at MU in all-time scoring and was drafted in the first round. We don't have anyone near the level he was at as a senior on this team. Also a tenacious defender and without a doubt stronger than anyone we have now.

And we had Jimmy, who even then was ridiculously underrated, as he has been every year of his career from his start at Marquette through the Bulls not offering him a bigger deal last month. That year, Jimmy was amazingly efficient on offense. He was the #7 player in offensive rating as a junior in the country. He was more efficient than either Wade in 2003 or Lazar in 2012. That's how good he was on offense that year.

The rest of the roster was filled with players that complimented those guys. Honestly, player for player, here's who I would take, based on who's out there right now:
.
  • C - Lazar Hayward over Steve Taylor: No-brainer
  • PF - Jimmy Butler over Juan Anderson: I love Juan, but this is JFB we're talking about.
  • G - Darius Johnson-Odom over Jajuan Johnson: Fill in any other guy for Jajuan, but he's getting the most minutes of any wing. Again, a no-brainer.
  • G - Maurice Acker over Matt Carlino: The first one where you might consider the current guy, but Acker was better at picking his shots and I'll take his quickness on defense. Also not sure the rest of the guys listed above would be as effective with Carlino in Acker's spot. Oh...and 49.5% from three.
  • G - David Cubillan over Derrick Wilson: Another where the current guy gets consideration because of defense, but Cooby played plenty hard enough and was so much better on offense. He was one of those guys that made the people around him better.
  • Bench - DuWil, Burton, & Cohen over Buycks, Fulce, & EWill: Both teams had very short benches, but this is one case where I'll take the current guys. Duane was more of a spark plug offensively than Dwight. I'd take Fulce's defense over Burton's, but injuries had already rendered Joe a shadow of what he might have become had he stayed healthy. And clearly, Cohen has already scored more points in 4 games than Williams did his entire freshman campaign.
.
As nice as it is to try to compare this team to that one, the 2010 team had four future NBA players on it and coming in, everyone knew their role and played to it. Further, Buzz knew the combination of a short bench and a lot of guys adjusting to new roles needed a slow-down style. We played our slowest ball under Buzz that year. Watching last night, I think Wojo is figuring that out. Only 61 possessions last night, and it suited us far better.

One good thing is we likely won't see another team this year that wants to play as fast as UNO does. There are only 3 Big East teams in the top-100 in tempo, none higher than Seton Hall at #72 (69.7). UNO is #1 in the country in that regard (78.8) and believe it or not the game they played against us was the SLOWEST they have played all year. No one in Orlando is ranked in the top-100 in tempo. None of our buy games are against teams that play up-tempo. And by the time we get to Big East season, hopefully these guys will be a bit better versed in transition defense.
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Blackhat

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2014, 08:48:24 PM »
My thinking is, if it's one or two guys underperforming it may be an individual problem.   If it's more than that it's probably a coaching problem. 

Wojo needs to adapt.

tower912

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2014, 08:59:14 PM »
09-10 was Buzz's best coaching job.  It had guys who competed defensively and understood their assignments.   Knew how to pressure the ball and keep it out of paint and knew to not foul when it got to the paint.   Ultimately their undoing, but what are you gonna do?    Offensively, that team set the standard for ball movement.   As good as any I have ever seen at the college level.   Everyone a shooter, everyone unselfish.   Always about the next pass for an even more wide open shot.   This year's team likes the weave and the handoff and the one-on-one.   The flow and movement aren't nearly as good.   And Derrick can't shoot like Mo.   A little like Larry and Curly's brother, Moe, but not like Mo Acker.     

Finally, because Buzz had coached so many places for so many coaches with so many different styles, that he was able to adapt to that team and get them to buy in to that system.   Wojo only knows the Duke way.   He is very smart, but he has spent 20 years doing things one way.   Buzz had spent 15 years doing things 8 ways.     Much more able to adapt. 
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real chili 83

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2014, 09:06:41 PM »
I'm hungry for a sub.

Cousin's Italian Special.  No tomato.

Benny B

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2014, 09:32:28 PM »
My Connecticut mother did this boy a great disservice by calling subs grinders the whole time I was growing up. People in WI look at you like you have two heads when use that one around here.

That's funny. First time I ever heard of a "grinder" was when I was in Fond du Lac.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

NotAnAlum

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2014, 10:08:09 PM »
Finally, because Buzz had coached so many places for so many coaches with so many different styles, that he was able to adapt to that team and get them to buy in to that system.   Wojo only knows the Duke way.   He is very smart, but he has spent 20 years doing things one way.   Buzz had spent 15 years doing things 8 ways.     Much more able to adapt. 

Couldn't agree more with the whole analysis but especially this.  The knock against Duke guys coaching has been they have problems adapting to lesser talent, weakness etc.  I was also a little concerned when the coaching staff was filled out with a bunch of x-players.  Great for games in the gym but no one who has been a lead assistant at "No name State" and tired to maximize what he had to be competitive with teams that were better.  Hopefully Wojo's staff will make these players better fundamentally and yes that takes time.  I don't remember Kevin O'Neill's first team looking this bad.  All we can do is hope.

brandx

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2014, 11:15:43 PM »
   

Finally, because Buzz had coached so many places for so many coaches with so many different styles, that he was able to adapt to that team and get them to buy in to that system.   Wojo only knows the Duke way.   He is very smart, but he has spent 20 years doing things one way.   Buzz had spent 15 years doing things 8 ways.     Much more able to adapt. 

Don't know that I believe this. I don't think being "very smart" is going to help his team win many games this year. Certainly didn't help last year.

Being smart doesn't trump having no center and a marginal PF. Being smart doesn't trump an almost total lack of experience.

Wojo didn't coach with blinders on for 15 years. He wasn't selected to help coach NBA stars because his vision of coaching was very narrow.

Let him get his players and then we can judge how good of a coach he is. Smart Buzz barely finished over .500 with a much, much, better and much more experienced team last year.

willie warrior

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2014, 06:42:51 AM »
That's funny. First time I ever heard of a "grinder" was when I was in Fond du Lac.
Ah yes, grinders in Fond du Lac. Brats in Sheboygan. Raw beef sandwiches at every bar in Wisconsin on New Years Eve, Garlic beef sausage from Kewaskum Meat Market, and Kielbasa from Usingers. A veritable smorgasbord of good eating back in the day in Wisconsin.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

tower912

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2014, 06:52:07 AM »
Don't know that I believe this. I don't think being "very smart" is going to help his team win many games this year. Certainly didn't help last year.

Being smart doesn't trump having no center and a marginal PF. Being smart doesn't trump an almost total lack of experience.

Wojo didn't coach with blinders on for 15 years. He wasn't selected to help coach NBA stars because his vision of coaching was very narrow.

Let him get his players and then we can judge how good of a coach he is. Smart Buzz barely finished over .500 with a much, much, better and much more experienced team last year.

I believe Wojo is very smart and will figure it out.   I can see where that wasn't clear. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Benny B

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2014, 11:59:35 AM »
I believe Wojo is very smart and will figure it out.   I can see where that wasn't clear. 

Of course he's smart. He went to Duke... some locals have told me they refer to themselves as the UW of the Southeast.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

The Lens

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2014, 12:10:26 PM »
How's everyone feel about Cousins Subs?
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MU82

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2014, 07:48:53 PM »
How's everyone feel about Cousins Subs?

Meh.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2014, 08:29:06 PM »
How's everyone feel about Cousins Subs?

Decent. I mean id take em over subway. Nothing beats a potbellys sub though as far as chains go.
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brewcity77

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2014, 08:29:59 PM »
How's everyone feel about Cousins Subs?

Good for a chain. Better than Subway or Jimmy John's, much better than Quizno's, not as good as Erbert's & Gerbert's.
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Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2014, 12:21:51 AM »
How's everyone feel about Cousins Subs?

I thought they were the best back in the late 70s. Now not so much.

source?

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Re: Grinders
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2014, 12:33:50 AM »
How's everyone feel about Cousins Subs?

Great specials, mediocre regular menu. Few things beat a brat sub.

 

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