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Author Topic: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?  (Read 113133 times)

Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #150 on: December 18, 2014, 11:06:51 AM »
Really??

So now it has gone from one teachers-aide not allowing one discussion to "opposition viewpoints ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THESE CLASSROOMS"?



Ah yes, this is an isolated incident.   Marquette University and Academia in general promote the free exchange of ideas and this is an outlier.  

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #151 on: December 18, 2014, 11:07:09 AM »
I agree with everything here, but if the TA filed a complaint, the University can't just ignore it. They have to follow the established channels.


I agree that the university can't ignore the complaint and it should follow procedure, but it should for sure let McAdams know why they are taking the action they are taking.  If it's for the blog shame on them, if it's for something further he said than shame on him for not saying that.  If they didn't tell McAdams why they are taking the action than shame on Marquette for not handling this properly.  It's not like they are unaware of McAdams propensity to take things to the interwebs.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Chicago_inferiority_complexes

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #152 on: December 18, 2014, 11:08:24 AM »
Really?

Now the univerisity is stopping debate and wiping out employment? The MU heirarchy is fascist. They are haters?

Get a grip on reality, dude. And if you believe this drivel you wrote, go to your job and do what McAdams did. Then you will be able to start your own blog about how the fascist haters at your company fired you unfairly.

I don't have tenure at my job. McAdams' does. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it.

You can't debate McAdams' points. So you just want him fired instead. That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist.

I'm embarrassed to share a diploma from the same school as a lot of you retards.

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #153 on: December 18, 2014, 11:08:54 AM »
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Chicago_inferiority_complexes

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #154 on: December 18, 2014, 11:09:49 AM »
We all know Marquette has free reign to do what it wants about complaints.

Rape by student athletes = free pass

Independent blog criticizing the lack of free expression = fire able offense.

brandx

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #155 on: December 18, 2014, 11:10:04 AM »
Ah yes, this is an isolated incident.   Marquette University and Academia in general promote the free exchange of ideas and this is an outlier.  

Dude - lose the persecution complex.

Coleman

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #156 on: December 18, 2014, 11:11:05 AM »
I don't have tenure at my job. McAdams' does. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it.

You can't debate McAdams' points. So you just want him fired instead. That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist.

I'm embarrassed to share a diploma from the same school as a lot of you retards.

I'm not going to get into a screaming match with you. Like McAdams, you've clearly demonstrated you can't engage in this debate in a respectful way.

RJax55

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #157 on: December 18, 2014, 11:12:28 AM »
I don't have tenure at my job. McAdams' does. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it.

You can't debate McAdams' points. So you just want him fired instead. That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist.

I'm embarrassed to share a diploma from the same school as a lot of you retards.

Well, I'm embarrassed to share my diploma with an individual who can't debate issues in a civil manner.

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #158 on: December 18, 2014, 11:13:01 AM »
I don't have tenure at my job. McAdams' does. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it.

You can't debate McAdams' points. So you just want him fired instead. That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist.

I'm embarrassed to share a diploma from the same school as a lot of you retards.

Dude, even for internet message boards this is a little over the top.  I'm not unsympathetic to your cause, but you are doing the exactly what you are accusing Marquette of.....stifling debate with an emotional and/or "my ball, my rules" attitude.

You may disagree with others in this thread, I happen to disagree with Brandx position, but that doesn't mean he is wrong or should not be allowed to argue his point.

If you have a strong, intellectual point you should be able to debate it effectively and unemotionally....you are accomplishing neither and are doing the exact same thing MU is doing.  The irony is somewhat rich.

"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #159 on: December 18, 2014, 11:13:09 AM »
Yikes.

Sorry this got weird, Mods.

In before the lock, I guess.

brandx

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #160 on: December 18, 2014, 11:14:24 AM »
I don't have tenure at my job. McAdams' does. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it.

You can't debate McAdams' points. So you just want him fired instead. That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist.

I'm embarrassed to share a diploma from the same school as a lot of you retards.

Reading your argument, I really doubt if you have a diploma. The smart people that I know don't need to go to "That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist".

This is simply a man who is trying to hurt the MU brand over his personal politics. There is a history from this gentleman to show this.

If you take it upon yourself to hurt your companies brand, you absolutely will be treated worse than McAdams.

RJax55

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #161 on: December 18, 2014, 11:15:34 AM »
Yikes.

Sorry this got weird, Mods.

In before the lock, I guess.

You have nothing to apologize for.

JuniorCardigan

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #162 on: December 18, 2014, 11:15:55 AM »
We all know Marquette has free reign to do what it wants about complaints.

Rape by student athletes = free pass

Independent blog criticizing the lack of free expression = fire able offense.

way to cherry pick that one, guy

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #163 on: December 18, 2014, 11:18:18 AM »
Yikes.

Sorry this got weird, Mods.

In before the lock, I guess.

Honestly, I don't think it should be locked, its about how MU handled this situation and we can do that as adults successfully.

I think Inferiority has an opinion who should share I'd just ask him to do it more effectively and play well in the sandbox with others.  As responders we also have an opportunity to not get down in the weeds and keep it about the discussion.  We can prove to the mods we can have nice things  :)

"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #164 on: December 18, 2014, 11:18:22 AM »
Dude - lose the persecution complex.

Oh boy.   And instead of addressing the point.......oh nevermind.   The lack of self-awareness is mind-numbing.  

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #165 on: December 18, 2014, 11:22:00 AM »
Reading your argument, I really doubt if you have a diploma. The smart people that I know don't need to go to "That makes you an a$$hole and a fascist".

This is simply a man who is trying to hurt the MU brand over his personal politics. There is a history from this gentleman to show this.

If you take it upon yourself to hurt your companies brand, you absolutely will be treated worse than McAdams.

I will disgree with you on this Brandx.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe McAdams' intent is to hurt MU's brand, in fact, I believe he seeks to improve it as free expression does make for a better university.  Where McAdams goes wrong is the modality he chooses for his improvement and this is colored by his personal politics.

If the TA prevented a student from expressing their views on gay marriage during a discussion on gay marriage, is that a right or wrong act in your mind?  If it is a wrong act, than seeking to correct it is a right act, however the method of redress could also be wrong....as IMHO I think McAdams was
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

drewm88

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #166 on: December 18, 2014, 11:23:55 AM »
To add to the conversation about whether or not MU unnecessarily escalated this with the suspension, take a look at the link provided by shiloh26 as well as two more links within the comments there.
http://marquettewire.org/2014/11/25/tribune/viewpoints/reader-submission-mcadamss-treatment-of-instructor-is-deplorable
http://dailynous.com/2014/11/22/letter-of-support-for-abbate-from-marquette-dept-chairs/
http://proteviblog.typepad.com/protevi/2014/11/open-letter-in-support-of-cheryl-abbate/comments/

Looking at all the people adding their names to these open letters in the comments, it appears to me that MU may have gotten much more pressure on this than I had previously thought. There are large numbers of faculty at Marquette and beyond taking a stand on this. That alone may have warranted a response like this (Edit: that response being an official investigation/review), even without an official complaint filed by the instructor or anyone else on campus.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:31:53 AM by drewm88 »

Coleman

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #167 on: December 18, 2014, 11:24:35 AM »
I will disgree with you on this Brandx.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe McAdams' intent is to hurt MU's brand, in fact, I believe he seeks to improve it as free expression does make for a better university.  Where McAdams goes wrong is the modality he chooses for his improvement and this is colored by his personal politics.

If the TA prevented a student from expressing their views on gay marriage during a discussion on gay marriage, is that a right or wrong act in your mind?  If it is a wrong act, than seeking to correct it is a right act, however the method of redress could also be wrong....as IMHO I think McAdams was

Thanks for disagreeing respectfully.

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #168 on: December 18, 2014, 11:26:53 AM »
To add to the conversation about whether or not MU unnecessarily escalated this with the suspension, take a look at the link provided by shiloh26 as well as two more links within the comments there.
http://marquettewire.org/2014/11/25/tribune/viewpoints/reader-submission-mcadamss-treatment-of-instructor-is-deplorable
http://dailynous.com/2014/11/22/letter-of-support-for-abbate-from-marquette-dept-chairs/
http://proteviblog.typepad.com/protevi/2014/11/open-letter-in-support-of-cheryl-abbate/comments/

Looking at all the people adding their names to these open letters in the comments, it appears to me that MU may have gotten much more pressure on this than I had previously thought. There are large numbers of faculty at Marquette and beyond taking a stand on this. That alone may have warranted a response like this, even without an official complaint filed by the instructor or anyone else on campus.



I don't follow, is your opinion that MU had to suspend McAdams because enough people within the academic community wanted him suspended?  That's pretty much the opposite of allowing free thoughts to be exchanged.  If I can get enough people to agree with me that a viewpoint shouldn't be expressed than I can have that viewpoint suppressed or punished?
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mikekinsellaMVP

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #169 on: December 18, 2014, 11:28:37 AM »
So... question:

The mods on occasion feel the need to lock threads and put people on timeout.  Are they, by definition, fascists?

I will disgree with you on this Brandx.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe McAdams' intent is to hurt MU's brand, in fact, I believe he seeks to improve it as free expression does make for a better university.  Where McAdams goes wrong is the modality he chooses for his improvement and this is colored by his personal politics.

This is why punditry in general is poisonous.  The fallacy of decrying your opponent for suppression of expression when you personally have no interest in genuine debate.  That goes for McAdams AND the administration.

mu03eng

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #170 on: December 18, 2014, 11:32:51 AM »
So... question:

The mods on occasion feel the need to lock threads and put people on timeout.  Are they, by definition, fascists?



ummm, have you not been paying attention....that Rocky guy is the worst of them all.
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drewm88

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #171 on: December 18, 2014, 11:34:50 AM »
I don't follow, is your opinion that MU had to suspend McAdams because enough people within the academic community wanted him suspended?  That's pretty much the opposite of allowing free thoughts to be exchanged.  If I can get enough people to agree with me that a viewpoint shouldn't be expressed than I can have that viewpoint suppressed or punished?

Sorry, that should have been more clear, and I've edited my post to hopefully fix that. I'm saying the pressure from a large portion of MU faculty, plus pressure from external academics, may have been enough to warrant the official review/investigation. My understanding is that the suspension is merely a component of that and would be so for any faculty member under this sort of review.

drewm88

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #172 on: December 18, 2014, 11:38:14 AM »
Additionally, McAdams himself believes the "suspension" aspect is overblown.

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2014/12/marquettes-suspension-of-marquette.html
"The “suspension” is a bit of a joke, since it’s Christmas break and we aren’t teaching. We are only working on a manuscript, and are allowed to go to campus to do that."

Lennys Tap

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #173 on: December 18, 2014, 11:47:25 AM »
Here is the bud of the bud and the root of the root - the majority or consensus opinion in a culture or community comes to view the marginalizing of the minority view as something that's almost logical, almost ok. At least for as long as they're in the majority, the protests from the minorities about a bigoted, unfair atmosphere are looked at as exaggerated or imagined. Things like free speech, academic freedom, etc., take on much different meaning depending on whose ox is being gored. For all but a very few politics trump principle.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:50:01 AM by Lennys Tap »

Galway Eagle

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #174 on: December 18, 2014, 11:49:31 AM »
So lemme get this straight trying to make an environment where people who are different don't have to hear hate spewed about their life is being fascist. And it's not ok to call people who say such hateful things phobic however it is ok to call the people trying to make more people feel welcome fascists?

I think here's the difference is the TA was stifling said debate to make the class feel more friendly to EVERYONE but the student and now mcadams have purely selfish reasons for wanting to get their OWN opinions out.
Maigh Eo for Sam