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Author Topic: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?  (Read 113128 times)

rocket surgeon

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Re: this is just not right
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2014, 08:07:35 PM »
That should not surprise you one bit.  Took 8 days for two of the other big three to even acknowledge John Gruber even existed the last few weeks.  One still has yet to do a story on it, despite massive video.  Ex CBS reporter Sheryl Atkisson has said it well of late about her former mates.

well it's hard to find time for that trivial stuff when we need to know if chelsea if going to breast feed or not-come on!sorry, that was a beach ball-i couldn't help myself
don't...don't don't don't don't

GGGG

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2014, 08:19:49 PM »
That should not surprise you one bit.  Took 8 days for two of the other big three to even acknowledge John Gruber even existed the last few weeks.  One still has yet to do a story on it, despite massive video.  Ex CBS reporter Sheryl Atkisson has said it well of late about her former mates.


What does this have to do with the topic at hand?  Other than providing another example of how you are victimized?

GGGG

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2014, 08:23:29 PM »
Ugh...cmon.

This was clearly something relatively minor that got blown out of proportion.  She has a right to determine what goes on in her class.  But you don't exercise that right absolutely, especially in an ethics class where you are inviting discussion.  

And McAdams of course piles on because he is the paragon of free thinking and balanced debate right?

It just sickens me that everything that goes on in today's world is put under a microscope and then blown up into proportions that are way greater than they should be.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:37:34 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

rocket surgeon

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2014, 08:35:54 PM »

Ugh...cmon.

This was clearly something relatively minor that got blown out of proportion.  She has a right to determine what goes on in her class.  But you don't exercise that right absolutely, especially in an ethics class where you are inviting discussion. 

And McAdams of course piles on because he is the paragon of free thinking and balanced debate right?

Wait a minute sultan, in all fairness the quote you took of me was in response to brandy asking me where drew was intimating that Cheryl couldn't defend herself
As for my wise ass comment re: news reporting-sorry-that was off topichttp://

It just sickens me that everything that goes on in today's world is put under a microscope and then blown up into proportions that are way greater than they should be.
don't...don't don't don't don't

GGGG

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2014, 08:37:58 PM »
You are correct rocket...shouldn't have quoted you and edited it accordingly.

forgetful

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2014, 08:42:04 PM »
Ugh...cmon.

This was clearly something relatively minor that got blown out of proportion.  She has a right to determine what goes on in her class.  But you don't exercise that right absolutely, especially in an ethics class where you are inviting discussion.  

And McAdams of course piles on because he is the paragon of free thinking and balanced debate right?

It just sickens me that everything that goes on in today's world is put under a microscope and then blown up into proportions that are way greater than they should be.

I agree with the bulk of this sentiment.  This is a non-story.  MU and the teacher did everything they were suppose to do.  I disagree to some extent with the not exercising that right absolutely (although I agree with the sentiment).  In this case, the teacher is expected to provide a discrimination free classroom.

McAdams and the media should be ashamed to be making a story of this.

rocket surgeon

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2014, 08:50:22 PM »
Sorry, my response got muddled up within sultans quote-learning how to use I-pad

Anyway, my mistake was not reading the whole thing through.  I see both sides to this now, but that is where this forum is a good tool if used properly.  Sometimes we have to tip toe around the politics in order to get the rest of the story.  It does however, bring to light how difficult it would be to speak of the some "hot button" issues that Cheryl and dr. Adams refer to without bringing the phobic word up
don't...don't don't don't don't

GGGG

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2014, 09:06:08 PM »
Well I don't think talking about the topic of gay marriage is inherently discriminatory.  I think she was afraid it would devolve into something like that...and it wasn't really the topic at hand anyway.

forgetful

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2014, 09:32:39 PM »
Well I don't think talking about the topic of gay marriage is inherently discriminatory.  I think she was afraid it would devolve into something like that...and it wasn't really the topic at hand anyway.

I agree with this.  The topic wasn't gay marriage, it was gay rights.  Everyone should agree that homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else.  So as the teacher mentioned, it should not be a topic of conversation.

A reasonable question to discuss would be is marriage a "right."  Done right, that doesn't have to bring gay marriage into the conversation. A more experience instructor could have worked with the student and involved this into the class, while emphasizing that gay marriage would not be discussed, by marriage as a right would.

muwarrior69

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2014, 09:33:25 PM »
Well I don't think talking about the topic of gay marriage is inherently discriminatory.  I think she was afraid it would devolve into something like that...and it wasn't really the topic at hand anyway.

What is really out of hand is forcing a student to drop the course because the student does not conform to the view of the professor. What was even more egregious is that the University would not even let him transfer out of her class. Then again perhaps the University knew that wherever he transferred to he would face the same problem. I don't think I'll donate to the school for awhile if students can't have a different view than their professors or suffer the consequences.


forgetful

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2014, 09:39:08 PM »
What is really out of hand is forcing a student to drop the course because the student does not conform to the view of the professor. What was even more egregious is that the University would not even let him transfer out of her class. Then again perhaps the University knew that wherever he transferred to he would face the same problem. I don't think I'll donate to the school for awhile if students can't have a different view than their professors or suffer the consequences.



He was not forced to drop the course because he wouldn't conform to the view of the professor.  The professor told him that sexist, homophobic and racist comments will not be tolerated in class, and if he had a problem with that then he should drop the course.  He didn't have to change his view at all, just not use discriminatory language.

Coleman

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2014, 10:39:49 PM »
What is really out of hand is forcing a student to drop the course because the student does not conform to the view of the professor. What was even more egregious is that the University would not even let him transfer out of her class. Then again perhaps the University knew that wherever he transferred to he would face the same problem. I don't think I'll donate to the school for awhile if students can't have a different view than their professors or suffer the consequences.


No one told this kid he has to change his views. He was merely told certain topics weren't going to be discussed in class. If he didn't like it, he could drop the class. Seems like a fair choice.

This is a non-story. Once in a while McAdams exposes something worth exposing, but he is usually grasping for something to stay visible and relevant. This falls into the latter.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 10:43:06 PM by Bleuteaux »

77ncaachamps

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2014, 11:35:58 PM »
Buried way down in the article:

"I would be remiss if I did not address the student’s behavior. A full review of the audio tape reveals the student was in fact disrespectful to the instructor. And when the instructor asked if she was being recorded, the student did not tell the truth.

I asked the young man about his behavior and he admitted to me that it was wrong. He told me that he “regretted” his actions."


Yes, how convenient.
SS Marquette

brandx

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2014, 12:29:19 AM »
He was not forced to drop the course because he wouldn't conform to the view of the professor.  The professor told him that sexist, homophobic and racist comments will not be tolerated in class, and if he had a problem with that then he should drop the course.  He didn't have to change his view at all, just not use discriminatory language.

What a wonderful world when we can agree. I think both teacher and student didn't handle this well even to the point of the kid trying to do a "gotcha on the teacher. While wrong, it can be excused somewhat because he is just following the lead of adults.

The culprit is McAdams whose actions were worse than the students. But he doesn't have the excuse of being "young and dumb".

brandx

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2014, 12:37:59 AM »
"she's a grad student with presumably limited experience handling classroom confrontation"  "i doubt this conversation was anticipated..."  "she gets more slack from me"  it's like she can't stick up for herself and he's making excuses for her.  "limited experience" yes, but...

I said "Could you quote where Drew said that she can't defend herself"?

Instead, YOU say "it's like she can't stick up for herself and he's making excuses for her". I didn't ask for YOUR opinion. I asked where Drew said she can't defend herself (which was what you claim he said).

I don't care what you think - your opinions are just as valid as mine. I'm just asking not to make stuff up.

rocket surgeon

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2014, 06:02:53 AM »
I said "Could you quote where Drew said that she can't defend herself"?

Instead, YOU say "it's like she can't stick up for herself and he's making excuses for her". I didn't ask for YOUR opinion. I asked where Drew said she can't defend herself (which was what you claim he said).

I don't care what you think - your opinions are just as valid as mine. I'm just asking not to make stuff up.

well if you are asking me to find the words or a phrase quoting drew saying, that cheryl, she cannot defend herself.  i guess you win.  but, his babbling around discussing the student-teacher interaction wasn't exactly a boost of confidence for her.  you know it and most of the rest of us here see it brandy. if i were the teacher, i would have thanked drew for trying to help, but i've got this one.  drew clearly placates cheryl and in a real sense demeans her as well-well she wasn't ready for the confrontation and had limited experience and the student was all prepared and ..... but to find a direct quote of drew saying cheryl, you cannot defend yourself-  my bad? if you couldn't see this in drews comments, then either you are being dishonest or you have a larger fish to fry in this.  i'll be watching to see that you play by your rules then too.  if there isn't a direct quote, then we are opinionating  and making things up?  no inferences allowed here based on the conversation?  i'd like to think we are all a little smarter than that
don't...don't don't don't don't

GGGG

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2014, 08:24:11 AM »
What is really out of hand is forcing a student to drop the course because the student does not conform to the view of the professor. What was even more egregious is that the University would not even let him transfer out of her class. Then again perhaps the University knew that wherever he transferred to he would face the same problem. I don't think I'll donate to the school for awhile if students can't have a different view than their professors or suffer the consequences.


What?  Did you read anything but the McAdams article?  Because what you describe above simply did not happen.

jficke13

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2014, 08:34:39 AM »
Even a cursory examination of McAdams' writings on this subject would show that this issue has been a subject he has focused criticism of Marquette University on over and over and over again for years. He's been writing on this subject since at least when I discovered him in 2005 as a freshman.

To McAdams, and especially in the context of his blog that is not designed like a peer-reviewed publication, this story is just one more on top of the dozens of similar incidents. To him, it's not just one little classroom confrontation, but rather an example of a pattern of behavior that he interprets to be evidence that the university has institutionalized a point of view and a discourages dissenting points of view.

Also, there's simply no resolving this one so to brand/chicos/boxer/otherpolaroppositiesnotnamed: lol internet fight.

WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2014, 09:14:25 AM »
I agree with this.  The topic wasn't gay marriage, it was gay rights.  Everyone should agree that homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else.  So as the teacher mentioned, it should not be a topic of conversation.

A reasonable question to discuss would be is marriage a "right."  Done right, that doesn't have to bring gay marriage into the conversation. A more experience instructor could have worked with the student and involved this into the class, while emphasizing that gay marriage would not be discussed, by marriage as a right would.

  succinctly put and I agree.  Shut up or leave is a poor way to handle this

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2014, 09:24:54 AM »
McAdams, on the other hand, had plenty of time to consider his response. He still published a one-sided post. I recognize the value he provides as a voice of opinions that often run counter to the main narrative on campus, but I think he often misuses his power by presenting incomplete/biased accounts of events. There's room for his values, perspective, and desire to persuade others to coexist with appreciation of the nuance of issues and compassion for those with whom he disagrees, and I think he'd be more effective if he recognized that.

So much of this.

I like the idea that McAdams can provide an opposing opinion at MU, but his responses almost always devolve into some sort of rhetoric.

He's quick to jump up on the soapbox and preach, and then I become very skeptical because he looks like a guy hunting opportunities to promote his own agenda.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2014, 09:39:58 AM »
What is really out of hand is forcing a student to drop the course because the student does not conform to the view of the professor. What was even more egregious is that the University would not even let him transfer out of her class. Then again perhaps the University knew that wherever he transferred to he would face the same problem. I don't think I'll donate to the school for awhile if students can't have a different view than their professors or suffer the consequences.

Yikes. I've seen and read people make $hit up before but this one was a doozy. Well played!

brandx

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2014, 12:35:29 PM »
well if you are asking me to find the words or a phrase quoting drew saying, that cheryl, she cannot defend herself.  i guess you win.  but, his babbling around discussing the student-teacher interaction wasn't exactly a boost of confidence for her.  you know it and most of the rest of us here see it brandy. if i were the teacher, i would have thanked drew for trying to help, but i've got this one.  drew clearly placates cheryl and in a real sense demeans her as well-well she wasn't ready for the confrontation and had limited experience and the student was all prepared and ..... but to find a direct quote of drew saying cheryl, you cannot defend yourself-  my bad? if you couldn't see this in drews comments, then either you are being dishonest or you have a larger fish to fry in this.  i'll be watching to see that you play by your rules then too.  if there isn't a direct quote, then we are opinionating  and making things up?  no inferences allowed here based on the conversation?  i'd like to think we are all a little smarter than that

As you should. I say stupid things and reach conclusions based on my biases at times. And, mix opinion and fact as though they are the same.

JuniorCardigan

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2014, 01:34:25 PM »
What is really out of hand is forcing a student to drop the course because the student does not conform to the view of the professor. What was even more egregious is that the University would not even let him transfer out of her class. Then again perhaps the University knew that wherever he transferred to he would face the same problem. I don't think I'll donate to the school for awhile if students can't have a different view than their professors or suffer the consequences.



He wasn't forced to drop the class. its not exactly a prudent idea for a professor to allow remarks that could even be construed as racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. If you were a professor would you let a person speak about how they see a specific group of people as inferior or not deserving of some legal rights? you'd be out of a job very quickly if you did

warriorchick

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2014, 01:48:36 PM »
If you were a professor would you let a person speak about how they see a specific group of people as inferior or not deserving of some legal rights?

Absolutely. Isn't that part of the free exchange of ideas that a university setting is all about?

Would I allow those remarks to go unchallenged?  Absolutely not. 

Have some patience, FFS.

JuniorCardigan

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Re: MU CINO (Catholic in name only)?
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2014, 02:02:56 PM »
Absolutely. Isn't that part of the free exchange of ideas that a university setting is all about?

Would I allow those remarks to go unchallenged?  Absolutely not. 



Fair enough.

I just think that something like this (or for instance a student being racist in class) isn't exactly conducive to a good learning environment. just my two cents