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Poll

Are JUCO recruits acceptable to you, provided they are good players, represent the school well, and graduate

Acceptable
Unacceptable

Author Topic: Jucos  (Read 21920 times)

River rat

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Jucos
« on: October 29, 2014, 12:35:22 PM »
Enjoy

Knight Commission

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 12:39:05 PM »
Leading question given the additional hard to determine caveats you provided when they are being recruited. There is no guarantee anyone will graduate, especially a JUCO, nor be a good reflection of the university.

I would suggest revising the poll to eliminate those caveats, because one could argue those are the reasons JUCOs should not be brought in, given histrorical track records, Mr. Montreale Clark.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 12:44:27 PM by Knight Commission »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 12:44:01 PM »
I voted acceptable.


However, the problem with your poll is that it doesn't stipulate how many, how it imbalances classes, etc, etc.  In general, sure they are fine.  When you have 40%+ of your roster in that situation, that's not good.  80% as you threw out yesterday, would completely destabilize your recruiting efforts.  You don't seem to think those things through for whatever reason.


River rat

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 01:06:36 PM »
Leading question given the additional hard to determine caveats you provided when they are being recruited. There is no guarantee anyone will graduate, especially a JUCO, nor be a good reflection of the university.

I would suggest revising the poll to eliminate those caveats, because one could argue those are the reasons JUCOs should not be brought in, given histrorical track records, Mr. Montreale Clark.



Well no freaking kidding.  Ur just like chicos in this regard ( sorry if that is overly harsh).  But no one knows.  Same goes for high school kids.  Maybe mu shouldnt recruit anyone because you know we dont know how they might turn out.  I will defer to the coach being a good judge of character and if he deems them worthy than i dont believe their background (juco or hs) should be of issue

Knight Commission

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 01:24:39 PM »
Well no freaking kidding.  Ur just like chicos in this regard ( sorry if that is overly harsh).  But no one knows.  Same goes for high school kids.  Maybe mu shouldnt recruit anyone because you know we dont know how they might turn out.  I will defer to the coach being a good judge of character and if he deems them worthy than i dont believe their background (juco or hs) should be of issue

Please, never accuse me of being Chicos. But the facts dont lie, JUCO's are less likely to graduate.

I like the change to increase the GPA requirement to 2.5, alot better than the 2.0 under Buzz's tenure, so probably the reason why Wojo is being allowed to do so.

This from a 2013 ESPN article, and why JUCO's have been historically less likely to graduate and why many schools made thoughtful/deliberate decisions not to recruit them.


'Data-driven decisions'
 
Diane Dickman, the NCAA's managing director of academic and membership affairs, has been charged by the NCAA's body to push Division I athletics toward the goal of having every student-athlete graduate within five years. When looking at graduation rates across the board, one of the biggest areas of concern was two-year college transfers. According to data collected from Division I schools, two-year transfers have underperformed relative to non-transfers or even four-four transfers. The newest data says around 11 percent of two-year transfers don't graduate within six years of transferring to a Division I school. Plus the Academic Progress Rate for non-transfers is around 973 and for two-year transfers it is 934.



« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 01:30:45 PM by Knight Commission »

Lennys Tap

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2014, 01:34:06 PM »
I voted acceptable.


However, the problem with your poll is that it doesn't stipulate how many, how it imbalances classes, etc, etc.  In general, sure they are fine.  When you have 40%+ of your roster in that situation, that's not good.  80% as you threw out yesterday, would completely destabilize your recruiting efforts.  You don't seem to think those things through for whatever reason.




I'd choose a roster that's 100% Jimmy Butlers over one that has any % of Amorosos, Mortensons, Hazels, Maymons, E Williams, etc., etc., etc. in a heartbeat.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2014, 01:54:58 PM »
One of the less statically significant polls I have ever seen.
TAMU

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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2014, 01:57:44 PM »

I'd choose a roster that's 100% Jimmy Butlers over one that has any % of Amorosos, Mortensons, Hazels, Maymons, E Williams, etc., etc., etc. in a heartbeat.

Of course.   Then again, I'd choose a roster of 100% Travis Diener, Steve Novaks, Wesley Matthews, etc, etc.....in a heartbeat.

They are here for 4 years, not 2 years.  Pretty simple math....remember, the subject you are so good at.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2014, 02:52:42 PM »
Has it dawned on anyone that if they required a red shirt yet they'd probably actually graduate or have a shot at it?
Maigh Eo for Sam

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2014, 02:56:07 PM »
I have ZERO problems with Junior College athletes (I hate the phrase "JUCO"). You dont even know how the best students are going to turn out in college. You just dont. I had very good grades and a really good ACT score in high school but I really screwed up my first two years at Marquette. You cannot stigmatize a whole group of people, good or bad. You really dont know how someone's performance in college will be coming from a Junior College or straight from high school.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2014, 03:21:09 PM »
Of course.   Then again, I'd choose a roster of 100% Travis Diener, Steve Novaks, Wesley Matthews, etc, etc.....in a heartbeat.

They are here for 4 years, not 2 years.  Pretty simple math....remember, the subject you are so good at.

4 years? What % of the freshmen that TC has recruited to Indiana have stayed for there for 4 years?

TheBurrEffect

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2014, 03:42:12 PM »

I'd choose a roster that's 100% Jimmy Butlers over one that has any % of Amorosos, Mortensons, Hazels, Maymons, E Williams, etc., etc., etc. in a heartbeat.

This

/Thread

TheBurrEffect

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2014, 03:43:17 PM »
Of course.   Then again, I'd choose a roster of 100% Travis Diener, Steve Novaks, Wesley Matthews, etc, etc.....in a heartbeat.

They are here for 4 years, not 2 years.  Pretty simple math....remember, the subject you are so good at.

Kentucky seems pretty content with 1 years. It's not so bad if you keep landing Jimmies.

bilsu

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 04:45:09 PM »
I voted acceptable. That is with the assumption the coaches do the proper vetting of a recruit, which they should be doing whether it is a high schooler or a Juco. It is more a question of whether you are going to recruit players that have been involved in bad things. Basically, the argument of whether Buzz should of recruited the player the ended up at Kansas St.  I forgot his name already, but he was syuspended for part of his junior season and all of his senior season. I have no problem recruiting a Juco, who does not have character issues.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 05:01:11 PM »
As exemplified in this poll, people aren't against JUCOs, never has been the case.  Folks can rattle off so and so under Al and Rick and Tom and Kevin and Buzz, etc.  The question was volume.  How many did Al have over the course of his career?  What were the most he had in any one given year?  Same for the other coaches.  Things change when you get to 40% of your team for any number of reasons...it's why Al and everyone else never had a number that high, because it does your program no good in the long term. 

I'm guessing Robbie the River Rat is the one person that voted against this.

River rat

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 05:09:35 PM »
Good thing chico n knight commision are not basketball coaches at mu

I could see it like this... " well young man i see that u were a juco AA last year as a freshman last year and u have been phenomenal when we watch you.  I have spoken to ur coaches teachers parents nad former coaches and they all speak glowingly of your character and commitment.  I understand u had little guidance in hs and came from a tough situation that left u as a non qualifier.  Every thing i have heard and seen tells me u would be a great ambassador and player for marquette, but you see i have this study here..."

TheBurrEffect

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2014, 05:12:13 PM »
Good thing chico n knight commision are not basketball coaches at mu

I could see it like this... " well young man i see that u were a juco AA last year as a freshman last year and u have been phenomenal when we watch you.  I have spoken to ur coaches teachers parents nad former coaches and they all speak glowingly of your character and commitment.  I understand u had little guidance in hs and came from a tough situation that left u as a non qualifier.  Every thing i have heard and seen tells me u would be a great ambassador and player for marquette, but you see i have this study here..."

I may have agreed with you. If it was not for the fact that you type like a 12 year old on msn messenger in 1999.

River rat

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 05:14:28 PM »
As exemplified in this poll, people aren't against JUCOs, never has been the case.  Folks can rattle off so and so under Al and Rick and Tom and Kevin and Buzz, etc.  The question was volume.  How many did Al have over the course of his career?  What were the most he had in any one given year?  Same for the other coaches.  Things change when you get to 40% of your team for any number of reasons...it's why Al and everyone else never had a number that high, because it does your program no good in the long term.  

I'm guessing Robbie the River Rat is the one person that voted against this.

A completely hypocritcal post.. Haha
Them boys are ok unless we get too many of their kind
Laughable
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 05:16:42 PM by River rat »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2014, 05:15:58 PM »
I may have agreed with you. If it was not for the fact that you type like a 12 year old on msn messenger in 1999.

You said it better than I could
TAMU

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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2014, 05:20:13 PM »
Kentucky seems pretty content with 1 years. It's not so bad if you keep landing Jimmies.

Good for Kentucky.  I'd rather not be like Kentucky, but again I'm not a just win baby person. 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2014, 05:23:09 PM »
A completely hypocritcal post.. Haha
Them boys are ok unless we get too many of their kind
Laughable

Cute, stupid...but cute. 

I'll ask for a fourth time....why is it that most of the top programs do not pursue a bunch of JUCOs?  Why is it that some don't pursue them AT ALL?  While you are searching on the internet or Asking Jeeves (I say that, because the phone you are on has to be the vintage of that era) let me know how many JUCOs in total were on MU's three Final Four teams.  Seems high school kids are doing just fine.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2014, 05:27:10 PM »
4 years? What % of the freshmen that TC has recruited to Indiana have stayed for there for 4 years?

I don't know, remember you are the big IU fan you should tell us.   Are we counting kids that left early because they are now making millions of dollars in the NBA?  For every kid that stays 4 years, that's double what a JUCO kid stays at in your program.  Don't forget that.

Maybe you can help River Rat out, why is it that most top programs go after high school talent and not JUCOs?  Is there a benefit to having kids in your program from 18 to 22 years old rather than just 20 to 22?  Does it help in balancing recruiting classes?  Does it help to have someone know your system for 4 years or 2 years? 

Lennys Tap

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2014, 05:45:12 PM »
I don't know, remember you are the big IU fan you should tell us.   Are we counting kids that left early because they are now making millions of dollars in the NBA?  For every kid that stays 4 years, that's double what a JUCO kid stays at in your program.  Don't forget that.

Maybe you can help River Rat out, why is it that most top programs go after high school talent and not JUCOs?  Is there a benefit to having kids in your program from 18 to 22 years old rather than just 20 to 22?  Does it help in balancing recruiting classes?  Does it help to have someone know your system for 4 years or 2 years? 

They go after high school kids because they are by and large better players. Only a small % of the Juco All Americans pan out. Tom Crean's certainly didn't - his record with them would tell him to stay away. Buzz had great success with his - probably more than any other college coach over the last 5 years. If I'm his employer I say carry on.

Knight Commission

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2014, 06:40:59 PM »
Let me rephrase the poll.

  Are JUCO's more likely to impair the MU basketball brand than "traditional" high school graduates who have been offered scholarships ?    
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 06:48:11 PM by Knight Commission »

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Jucos
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2014, 06:43:45 PM »
what a ridiculous thread.
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

 

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