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Author Topic: Jajuan J breakout  (Read 48631 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #175 on: October 30, 2014, 11:48:22 AM »
LOL - Cherry picked stats??  Those aren't cherry picked.  They are reality.  As was the reality that your boy, Buzz, said the team was playing 4 on 5 as a result.  As for Dawson, he may be moved to the 2 or 3..because he CAN SHOOT THE BALL. Derrick?  There's only 1 spot for him, and that sure as hell isn't at a shooting guard position. Hell PG is a HUGE stretch for Derrick...he's not a playmaker, can't break a defender down off the dribble, and actually isn't very strong with the ball against tight ball pressure.   He'll get his chance, but if he plays anything like last year...I guaran-god-damn tee you he won't be getting 30 minutes a game.

And if I were you, I wouldn't make judgments on a basketball player who is getting radically inconsistent minutes, yet with the minutes he does get, most of them are in 2 to 3 minute segments.  I can form plenty of judgments on a guy who got 30 minutes a game night in, night out...and the proof is in the "production."  It was AWFUL.  It won't take much at all for Derrick to improve on last year's campaign...hopefully his hard work pays off for him. To improve on the 3 point shooting percentage and FT percentage shouldn't take much...the key will be if he can stick wide open perimeter jump shots, is willing to take them, and make at least 35% of them to prove he needs to be defended by the opposition.

So, to sum up your views: Derrick stinks, is a way worse basketball player than Dawson. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows it. Buzz knew it but played Derrick ahead of Dawson because he was trying to lose. Wojo knows it, but he named Derrick captain and has him ahead of Dawson on the depth chart because - why? Not because of shooting. Derrick stinks at shooting and always will. Law of averages says he'll make a few more this year, but do you honestly think his playing time vs Dawson's hinges on whether he's 3-14 from 3 instead of 1-14? Please. So, again, why? Here's why: Wojo agrees with idiots like Buzz, me and others and disagrees with geniuses like you as to who will give his basketball team a better chance to win. Not automatically win, mind you, just a better chance. But in your world, that can't be right. Nobody who knows anything about basketball could possibly come to that conclusion. So....if he follows through and plays Derrick over Dawson he, like Buzz, is in the tank.

NersEllenson

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #176 on: October 30, 2014, 12:06:41 PM »
So, to sum up your views: Derrick stinks, is a way worse basketball player than Dawson. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows it. Buzz knew it but played Derrick ahead of Dawson because he was trying to lose. Wojo knows it, but he named Derrick captain and has him ahead of Dawson on the depth chart because - why? Not because of shooting. Derrick stinks at shooting and always will. Law of averages says he'll make a few more this year, but do you honestly think his playing time vs Dawson's hinges on whether he's 3-14 from 3 instead of 1-14? Please. So, again, why? Here's why: Wojo agrees with idiots like Buzz, me and others and disagrees with geniuses like you as to who will give his basketball team a better chance to win. Not automatically win, mind you, just a better chance. But in your world, that can't be right. Nobody who knows anything about basketball could possibly come to that conclusion. So....if he follows through and plays Derrick over Dawson he, like Buzz, is in the tank.

Buzz has shown an aversion to playing freshman period.  The fact an incredibly talented kid like Burton could only get 12 a game is all that needs to be pointed to, to prove that out - along with Buzz's historical usage of freshman.  People can say, Buzz was caught with his pants down due to Duane getting hurt - yet there is virtually NOTHING that would suggest Duane would have been given many minutes last year either - particularly when it was known he was struggling in practice.

Do I think Dawson's best position is PG?  No, not necessarily - would like to see an ultra-quick player at that position..and Dawson is not that.  Nor is Derrick an ultra quick PG.  Yet I know Dawson is a HELL of a lot better shooter of the basketball, and that is a critical skill to have...particularly when the alternative is so devoid of that skill.

The fact Derrick is a captain is not shocking at all...what will be shocking is if he plays 30 minutes  + per game this season, if the team is losing at a high rate, and Derrick is again not defended within 5 feet on the perimeter.  I'm betting that the chances are high, that Derrick will not have been able to improve his shot enough, to where he has to be defended straight up and honestly, and once again teams will sag off of him and that will create lots of challenges for us offensively - and Wojo WILL adjust accordingly.

"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

NersEllenson

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #177 on: October 30, 2014, 12:09:20 PM »
Maybe you could add your season predictions to that thread

Where is that thread?  I'll go ahead and do so - yet it is really hard to predict what will happen - as so much of the season's success/failure will be the result of how much Wojo plays Derrick/the level of improvement Derrick shows.  PG is most important position on the floor, and if for some bizarre reason Wojo plays Derrick 30 and he is the same player as last year - we won't win more than 12 games.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Lennys Tap

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #178 on: October 30, 2014, 12:19:14 PM »
Buzz has shown an aversion to playing freshman period.  The fact an incredibly talented kid like Burton could only get 12 a game is all that needs to be pointed to, to prove that out - along with Buzz's historical usage of freshman.  People can say, Buzz was caught with his pants down due to Duane getting hurt - yet there is virtually NOTHING that would suggest Duane would have been given many minutes last year either - particularly when it was known he was struggling in practice.

Do I think Dawson's best position is PG?  No, not necessarily - would like to see an ultra-quick player at that position..and Dawson is not that.  Nor is Derrick an ultra quick PG.  Yet I know Dawson is a HELL of a lot better shooter of the basketball, and that is a critical skill to have...particularly when the alternative is so devoid of that skill.

The fact Derrick is a captain is not shocking at all...what will be shocking is if he plays 30 minutes  + per game this season, if the team is losing at a high rate, and Derrick is again not defended within 5 feet on the perimeter.  I'm betting that the chances are high, that Derrick will not have been able to improve his shot enough, to where he has to be defended straight up and honestly, and once again teams will sag off of him and that will create lots of challenges for us offensively - and Wojo WILL adjust accordingly.



This is all just a bunch of gobbledygook. Of course Derrick won't play 30+ minutes. There are alternatives available this year that weren't last year. Last year, it was Derrick or Dawson. Both were sub par enough that Buzz tried Todd and Jamil, but that proved even worse. Your opinion was that anyone who would choose Derrick over Dawson was basketball stupid or trying to lose. It appears that Wojo has Derrick ahead of Dawson on this year's depth chart. Ergo, you think he's basketball stupid or trying to lose. Which?

MU82

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #179 on: October 30, 2014, 01:33:26 PM »
No..it really isn't hyperbole...and many other guys who have played the game and been close to it felt the exact same. 

This is always where you lose me, Ners.

I did play the game and I coach it now, so I guess I would pass your "filter," but to cavalierly dismiss the knowledge of high-basketball-IQ people who didn't play the game is close-minded and ignorant.

It serves to refute your arguments before you even make them and paints you as a look-at-me narcissist with a superiority complex.

You didn't play in the NBA. You didn't coach in college. You played H.S. ball. I knew a lot of high-school ballers -- hell, I had several as teammates -- who had trouble spelling basketball. Get over yourself, man!

Just make your case -- one I happen to mostly agree with on the issue of last season's PG situation -- and stop qualifying it with meaningless drivel.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #180 on: October 30, 2014, 02:09:22 PM »
This is always where you lose me, Ners.

I did play the game and I coach it now, so I guess I would pass your "filter," but to cavalierly dismiss the knowledge of high-basketball-IQ people who didn't play the game is close-minded and ignorant.

It serves to refute your arguments before you even make them and paints you as a look-at-me narcissist with a superiority complex.

You didn't play in the NBA. You didn't coach in college. You played H.S. ball. I knew a lot of high-school ballers -- hell, I had several as teammates -- who had trouble spelling basketball. Get over yourself, man!

Just make your case -- one I happen to mostly agree with on the issue of last season's PG situation -- and stop qualifying it with meaningless drivel.



Completely agree. You make a lot of great points Ners. But you hurt your own cause with all the extra crap.
TAMU

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NersEllenson

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #181 on: October 31, 2014, 06:05:33 PM »
This is always where you lose me, Ners.

I did play the game and I coach it now, so I guess I would pass your "filter," but to cavalierly dismiss the knowledge of high-basketball-IQ people who didn't play the game is close-minded and ignorant.

It serves to refute your arguments before you even make them and paints you as a look-at-me narcissist with a superiority complex.

You didn't play in the NBA. You didn't coach in college. You played H.S. ball. I knew a lot of high-school ballers -- hell, I had several as teammates -- who had trouble spelling basketball. Get over yourself, man!

Just make your case -- one I happen to mostly agree with on the issue of last season's PG situation -- and stop qualifying it with meaningless drivel.
When someone on multiple occasions says my take on the coaching last season was hyperbole...I'm basically being called out on my position. It wasn't an exaggeration.  As for me mentioning my "credentials" I'm giving a basis for what I'm forming my opinion against - personal playing experience as well as lots of time spent around coaches and having done some coaching myself. I sat court side at every Marquette game while at MU, coached at ONeill and Deanes camps, sat 1 seat down from Mike Dunleavy and Chris Ford for 41 home Bucks games per year for 3 years while at MU...so I've seen and been a little closer to the action than many have...and when I said worst coaching performance I'd seen in 30 years I meant it.
No it doesn't take having played the game at a high level or been exposed to it at a high level frequently to allow someone to make a good point on the game - yet my exposure to the game is what it is and has been. Generally when people seek the opinions of a person in any field, they value those slightly more of someone who had a high degree of experience in the field. I've said before I'd never weigh in with any kind of passion or authority on something like band, an instrument, or sport such as wrestling which I have no experience in - and I'd put a little more credibility in with someone who has participated extensively in those endeavors of I were engaged in a discussion on such a field/sport/skill.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 06:08:32 PM by NersEllenson »
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

willie warrior

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #182 on: October 31, 2014, 06:09:16 PM »
So, to sum up your views: Derrick stinks, is a way worse basketball player than Dawson. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows it. Buzz knew it but played Derrick ahead of Dawson because he was trying to lose. Wojo knows it, but he named Derrick captain and has him ahead of Dawson on the depth chart because - why? Not because of shooting. Derrick stinks at shooting and always will. Law of averages says he'll make a few more this year, but do you honestly think his playing time vs Dawson's hinges on whether he's 3-14 from 3 instead of 1-14? Please. So, again, why? Here's why: Wojo agrees with idiots like Buzz, me and others and disagrees with geniuses like you as to who will give his basketball team a better chance to win. Not automatically win, mind you, just a better chance. But in your world, that can't be right. Nobody who knows anything about basketball could possibly come to that conclusion. So....if he follows through and plays Derrick over Dawson he, like Buzz, is in the tank.
m
Man, what a rant. Nobody will ever accuse Lenny of being a Buzz butt boy, would they?
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

MU82

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #183 on: October 31, 2014, 06:48:42 PM »
When someone on multiple occasions says my take on the coaching last season was hyperbole...I'm basically being called out on my position. It wasn't an exaggeration.  As for me mentioning my "credentials" I'm giving a basis for what I'm forming my opinion against - personal playing experience as well as lots of time spent around coaches and having done some coaching myself. I sat court side at every Marquette game while at MU, coached at ONeill and Deanes camps, sat 1 seat down from Mike Dunleavy and Chris Ford for 41 home Bucks games per year for 3 years while at MU...so I've seen and been a little closer to the action than many have...and when I said worst coaching performance I'd seen in 30 years I meant it.
No it doesn't take having played the game at a high level or been exposed to it at a high level frequently to allow someone to make a good point on the game - yet my exposure to the game is what it is and has been. Generally when people seek the opinions of a person in any field, they value those slightly more of someone who had a high degree of experience in the field. I've said before I'd never weigh in with any kind of passion or authority on something like band, an instrument, or sport such as wrestling which I have no experience in - and I'd put a little more credibility in with someone who has participated extensively in those endeavors of I were engaged in a discussion on such a field/sport/skill.

Nicely explained.

But you still might want to avoid taking every opportunity to use your experience as a hammer. Pretty much everybody with more than a few dozen posts on Scoop knows of your experience -- and also knows of your, um, let's call it "confidence" that your experience makes you more right than the rest of us.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Texas Western

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #184 on: October 31, 2014, 07:03:29 PM »
When someone on multiple occasions says my take on the coaching last season was hyperbole...I'm basically being called out on my position. It wasn't an exaggeration.  As for me mentioning my "credentials" I'm giving a basis for what I'm forming my opinion against - personal playing experience as well as lots of time spent around coaches and having done some coaching myself. I sat court side at every Marquette game while at MU, coached at ONeill and Deanes camps, sat 1 seat down from Mike Dunleavy and Chris Ford for 41 home Bucks games per year for 3 years while at MU...so I've seen and been a little closer to the action than many have...and when I said worst coaching performance I'd seen in 30 years I meant it.
No it doesn't take having played the game at a high level or been exposed to it at a high level frequently to allow someone to make a good point on the game - yet my exposure to the game is what it is and has been. Generally when people seek the opinions of a person in any field, they value those slightly more of someone who had a high degree of experience in the field. I've said before I'd never weigh in with any kind of passion or authority on something like band, an instrument, or sport such as wrestling which I have no experience in - and I'd put a little more credibility in with someone who has participated extensively in those endeavors of I were engaged in a discussion on such a field/sport/skill.
I agree with your analysis of last years coaching . Worst I have seen as well .

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #185 on: October 31, 2014, 07:22:39 PM »
When someone on multiple occasions says my take on the coaching last season was hyperbole...I'm basically being called out on my position. It wasn't an exaggeration.  As for me mentioning my "credentials" I'm giving a basis for what I'm forming my opinion against - personal playing experience as well as lots of time spent around coaches and having done some coaching myself. I sat court side at every Marquette game while at MU, coached at ONeill and Deanes camps, sat 1 seat down from Mike Dunleavy and Chris Ford for 41 home Bucks games per year for 3 years while at MU...so I've seen and been a little closer to the action than many have...and when I said worst coaching performance I'd seen in 30 years I meant it.
No it doesn't take having played the game at a high level or been exposed to it at a high level frequently to allow someone to make a good point on the game - yet my exposure to the game is what it is and has been. Generally when people seek the opinions of a person in any field, they value those slightly more of someone who had a high degree of experience in the field. I've said before I'd never weigh in with any kind of passion or authority on something like band, an instrument, or sport such as wrestling which I have no experience in - and I'd put a little more credibility in with someone who has participated extensively in those endeavors of I were engaged in a discussion on such a field/sport/skill.

Let your experience speak for itself. Experts in the field don't need to tell everyone they are experts in the field. They simply speak and because they have so much experience, their points are better and more accurate than the novices. Those who try to hammer (I liked MU82's description) others with experience usually just end up hurting their own cause.

Again, you make really good points Ners. But the extra stuff you though in there really turns others off.
TAMU

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GGGG

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #186 on: October 31, 2014, 07:27:50 PM »
nm
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 07:52:56 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

Wojo'sMojo

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #187 on: October 31, 2014, 08:07:35 PM »
I agree with your analysis of last years coaching . Worst I have seen as well .

Ditto

Lennys Tap

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #188 on: October 31, 2014, 08:09:37 PM »
When someone on multiple occasions says my take on the coaching last season was hyperbole...I'm basically being called out on my position. It wasn't an exaggeration.  As for me mentioning my "credentials" I'm giving a basis for what I'm forming my opinion against - personal playing experience as well as lots of time spent around coaches and having done some coaching myself. I sat court side at every Marquette game while at MU, coached at ONeill and Deanes camps, sat 1 seat down from Mike Dunleavy and Chris Ford for 41 home Bucks games per year for 3 years while at MU...so I've seen and been a little closer to the action than many have...and when I said worst coaching performance I'd seen in 30 years I meant it.
No it doesn't take having played the game at a high level or been exposed to it at a high level frequently to allow someone to make a good point on the game - yet my exposure to the game is what it is and has been. Generally when people seek the opinions of a person in any field, they value those slightly more of someone who had a high degree of experience in the field. I've said before I'd never weigh in with any kind of passion or authority on something like band, an instrument, or sport such as wrestling which I have no experience in - and I'd put a little more credibility in with someone who has participated extensively in those endeavors of I were engaged in a discussion on such a field/sport/skill.

The problem is that you let your passion get in the way of your reason. You disagree with the rotations and who got the most playing time. Fine. That's a topic that reasonable people can differ on and debate. Except if someone doesn't agree with your position (including the coach) you brand them stupid. And after calling everyone else stupid you assert something that's beyond stupid and annihilates your credibility - that Buzz was throwing games. I don't care if you've sat on the bench next to Red Auerbach for your entire life - that's flat out crazy. And people who stick to that kind of stubborn crazy are fun to bet with but aren't reliable analysts. You're a good guy and you know some basketball but you're leading too often with your heart and not your head.

NersEllenson

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #189 on: November 01, 2014, 12:48:38 PM »
The problem is that you let your passion get in the way of your reason. You disagree with the rotations and who got the most playing time. Fine. That's a topic that reasonable people can differ on and debate. Except if someone doesn't agree with your position (including the coach) you brand them stupid. And after calling everyone else stupid you assert something that's beyond stupid and annihilates your credibility - that Buzz was throwing games. I don't care if you've sat on the bench next to Red Auerbach for your entire life - that's flat out crazy. And people who stick to that kind of stubborn crazy are fun to bet with but aren't reliable analysts. You're a good guy and you know some basketball but you're leading too often with your heart and not your head.

I'm not sure I've called anyone stupid here...I have said it is idiotic to think that playing Derrick and Jake more minutes than any other guys on the team, and being a maniac in substitutions, other than at the 2 positions that were the glaring weakness on the team - seemed dumb on Buzz's part.

As I posted once before - most any hardcore MU basketball fan knows Buzz is/was a little crazy...and capable of crazy.  It wouldn't surprise me again, in the least, given that Buzz left in the immediate aftermath of the season - that he was giving admin a big F'You on his way out - for not letting him get his way with regard to how he wanted to recruit.  Buzz didn't need to win games to still land another job, he had enough skins on the wall from his S-16, S-16, E8 run in years prior.  And I highly doubt Buzz's complex and brilliant contract that HE negotiated with VaTech was something done in a matter of 1-week.  I have no doubt those discussions were taking place for a much longer period of time...and concurrent to our season last year.

On the surface, would it not seem that Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil and Otule were some of the highest character kids on the team?  All of them came to MU via 4-years of high school ball (no extra years in prep school such as Mayo/Burton).  And not leading with my heart, but my head, does it not seem crazy to start that lineup??  How can Jamil be effective surrounded with 4 guys who are incredibly limited offensively?

Why after Dawson plays a very solid game and helps us win in OT on the road against G'Town, do you then only play him 8 minutes the next game...and no more than 16 the rest of the year thereafter, when prior to that point your existing PG has been struggling mightily?  Why do you continue to play 4 on 5 (in your words Buzz)?  Is Dawson, a 3-star prospect that YOU recruited and signed SO incredibly bad, that giving him more PT would result in potentially playing 3.5 on 5??  Highly doubtful.

I appreciate YOUR passion for MU hoops Lenny, and know your heart is in the right place as it relates to MU hoops - yet just greatly disagree on how Buzz performed last year and have it on pretty good record his head/heart were elsewhere much of last season.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

tower912

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #190 on: November 02, 2014, 06:22:11 AM »
I'm not sure I've called anyone stupid here
You HAVE referred to people who disagree with you as idiots and adversaries.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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River rat

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Re: Jajuan J breakout
« Reply #191 on: November 02, 2014, 07:50:44 AM »

I'm not arguing he coached well.  I never have.  I am arguing that it wasn't the "worst coaching performance in 30 years."

THAT is hyperbolic nonsense.  Anybody who had to witness some of Bob Dukiet's performances would show that it wasn't even the worst Marquette coaching performance over the past 30 years.

Was no one paying attention to the crean years???!!