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Author Topic: Casual Hoya reviews MU  (Read 27516 times)

NersEllenson

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2014, 02:05:56 PM »
Yeah, it sounds so crazy because...it is so crazy.

And of course nobody has ever thought for a second that Buzz was a little crazy himself....crazy people do crazy sh$t - such as leave MU for an outpost like VaTech - and then go on to say that they left due to being AFRAID that they couldn't live up to the high expectations their prior performance achieved.  They decide to go to a bottom of the barrel basketball program in the middle of nowhere, so they won't have to face any real expectations, and should they achieve even modest success, their ego can be stroked as it is badly needed - because Buzz sure proved to have a thin skin.  Character revealed.

At least Crean left for a blueblood.  Buzz?  Left the whole college basketball world practically scratching their head.  Crazy?  Thinking you can win at the high major level when you concede you are playing 4 on 5....and the one game you try the alternative....you get your best win of the season...and then never again try that alternative again?  Crazy?  Yea...I think so.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2014, 02:21:50 PM »
Theres a big difference between losing Doug McDermott, Ethan Wragge and Grant Gibbs vs. Jamil Wilson, Jake Tomas and Chris Otule. I dont even think Creighton is good on paper so I dont know where that argument comes from.

It's simple math. Creighton was the 23rd best team last season. Marquette was the 76th. Crieghton loses 65% of its production. Marquette loses 72%. Creighton brings in a solid graduate transfer (Kreklow), a former top 40 redshirt juco (Milliken), a former 4 star redshirt (Hegner), a top 100 freshman (Harrell), and a top 150 freshman (Gilmore III). Marquette brings in a great graduate transfer (Carlino), a former top 100 redshirt (Duane), a midseason transfer who was ok for Indiana (Fischer), and a top 100 freshman (Cohen). Creighton has 4 players taller than 6"7 for the entire season. Marquette has 1 for half the season. Creighton kept its coach. Marquette has a coach who has never had the head job before.

If you look at the above information, Creighton sounds like it's going to be the better team, no matter how you look at it. I don't think people appreciate how bad on paper Marquette is looking. On paper, we should be outside the top 100 this season. Closer to 150 than 100. Fortunately for us, basketball is not played on paper. I buy into the belief that our sophomores will take big steps forward, and that upgrading the perimeter will make the other players on the team better. So I believe we will finish above Creighton, Butler, and Seton Hall. But we are in no real position to say we are definitively better than anyone in the BEast besides Depaul.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2014, 02:26:12 PM »
If a really good team (Creighton) retains or loses a big % of their production it is meaningful. If a mediocre one (MU) does the same it doesn't mean nearly as much. I used to laugh when people would say, "Watch out for DePaul, they've got their whole team back" - yeah, but their whole team stunk, so who cares? The key is to replace the "producers" with equal or better producers, and the worse a team the easier that is.


Absolutely true. Couldn't agree more. The problem with MU is, we didn't bring in better players. Carlino will be an upgrade for sure. But Sandy isn't better than Jamil. Duane isn't better than Mayo. And Luke isn't better than Gardner (at this point). In order for the producers to be better, it requires a larger than average jump in production by all of our bench players. I think because of certain circumstances from last season, that is possible. But as someone pointed out, bama I believe, the math says we are going to have a losing season this year. We need huge unexpected improvement from all of our bench players from last season.

I do think it is possible, but people are underestimating the hill Wojo has to climb. And I've seen first hand what our fans do to coaches/players when they fail to meet lofty expectations.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:31:27 PM by The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid »
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swoopem

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2014, 02:30:06 PM »
It's simple math. Creighton was the 23rd best team last season. Marquette was the 76th. Crieghton loses 65% of its production. Marquette loses 72%. Creighton brings in a solid graduate transfer (Kreklow), a former top 40 redshirt juco (Milliken), a former 4 star redshirt (Hegner), a top 100 freshman (Harrell), and a top 150 freshman (Gilmore III). Marquette brings in a great graduate transfer (Carlino), a former top 100 redshirt (Duane), a midseason transfer who was ok for Indiana (Fischer), and a top 100 freshman (Cohen). Creighton has 4 players taller than 6"7 for the entire season. Marquette has 1 for half the season. Creighton kept its coach. Marquette has a coach who has never had the head job before.

If you look at the above information, Creighton sounds like it's going to be the better team, no matter how you look at it. I don't think people appreciate how bad on paper Marquette is looking. On paper, we should be outside the top 100 this season. Closer to 150 than 100. Fortunately for us, basketball is not played on paper. I buy into the belief that our sophomores will take big steps forward, and that upgrading the perimeter will make the other players on the team better. So I believe we will finish above Creighton, Butler, and Seton Hall. But we are in no real position to say we are definitively better than anyone in the BEast besides Depaul.

Good thing basketball isn't a math equation, eh. We'll be much better than Creighton and I'm saying we finish top 4 in the conference. 
Bring back FFP!!!

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2014, 02:34:57 PM »
Good thing basketball isn't a math equation, eh. We'll be much better than Creighton and I'm saying we finish top 4 in the conference. 

It's not a math equation. But the math equations are pretty good for getting a ballpark estimate.

Even at my most optimistic, I have a hard time seeing top 4. Villanova and Georgetown are locks to be better than us. Provided Lavin doesn't Lavin them out of contention, SJU should be much better. Maybe we could get that 4 spot but Xavier and Providence are not teams to sleep on. My estimate is 6th.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #105 on: October 23, 2014, 02:46:36 PM »
Absolutely true. Couldn't agree more. The problem with MU is, we didn't bring in better players. Carlino will be an upgrade for sure. But Sandy isn't better than Jamil. Duane isn't better than Mayo. And Luke isn't better than Gardner (at this point). In order for the producers to be better, it requires a larger than average jump in production by all of our bench players. I think because of certain circumstances from last season, that is possible. But as someone pointed out, bama I believe, the math says we are going to have a losing season this year. We need huge unexpected improvement from all of our bench players from last season.

I do think it is possible, but people are underestimating the hill Wojo has to climb. And I've seen first hand what our fans do to coaches/players when they fail to meet lofty expectations.

Carlino2014>Jake2013
Derrick 2014 >Derrick 2013
Juan 2014>Juan 2013
JJJ 2014>JJJ 2013
J Dawson 2014>J Dawson2013

Burton2014 = Jamil 2013

Gardner/Otule 2013>Teve/Fischer 2014
Burton 2013>Cohen2014

I don't know how good Carlino is or how much our returning guys step up, but I don't see us much different from last year.


tower912

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #106 on: October 23, 2014, 02:47:48 PM »
Good thing basketball isn't a math equation, eh. We'll be much better than Creighton and I'm saying we finish top 4 in the conference. 
That is predicated on having 1 player who has ever been a consistent scorer at the D1 level and a bunch of hope.   No size.   No depth.   No proven production.   Just the assumption that all of these guys who haven't produced at the D1 level are going to do so under a first time coach.    I hope you are right.  
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2014, 02:54:20 PM »
That is predicated on having 1 player who has ever been a consistent scorer at the D1 level and a bunch of hope.   No size.   No depth.   No proven production.   Just the assumption that all of these guys who haven't produced at the D1 level are going to do so under a first time coach.    I hope you are right.  

Exactly. Enjoy the low expectations. There should be no pressure on this team but they should have a huge chip on their shoulder. The math says we get 9th in the BEast. That should make it even sweeter if we get 6th or 4th or 2nd in the league. We can also look forward to watching a team that should be a lot more exciting than last season's.
TAMU

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hoyasincebirth

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2014, 06:20:32 PM »
I think the main difference between Creighton and Marquette is that they have a proven coach and you do not. Wojo could turn out to be great, but it's very hard to be a first time coach in a league like the BE. Most coaches cut their teeth at a lower level before getting a gig like Marquette. It's just a big unknown more so than the roster. Creighton is the next one on the chopping block so it's not like I think they'll be much better if at all.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2014, 06:43:25 PM »
Carlino2014>Jake2013
Derrick 2014 >Derrick 2013
Juan 2014>Juan 2013
JJJ 2014>JJJ 2013
J Dawson 2014>J Dawson2013

Burton2014 = Jamil 2013

Gardner/Otule 2013>Teve/Fischer 2014
Burton 2013>Cohen2014

I don't know how good Carlino is or how much our returning guys step up, but I don't see us much different from last year.



This is a fun exercise. This is what I've got:

1: 2014 Derrick > 2013 Derrick
2: 2014 Carlino > 2013 Jake
3: 2014 Burton = 2013 Mayo
4: 2014 Juan < 2013 Jamil
5: 2014 Luke < 2013 Gardner

BU PG: 2014 Duane > 2013 Dawson
BU SG: 2014 Dawson < 2013 JJJ
BU SF: 2014 JJJ < 2013 Burton
BU PF: 2014 Sandy < 2013 Juan
BU C: 2014 Steve > 2013 Otule
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NYWarrior

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2014, 06:56:38 PM »
I think the main difference between Creighton and Marquette is that they have a proven coach and you do not. Wojo could turn out to be great, but it's very hard to be a first time coach in a league like the BE. Most coaches cut their teeth at a lower level before getting a gig like Marquette. It's just a big unknown more so than the roster. Creighton is the next one on the chopping block so it's not like I think they'll be much better if at all.

That's true about Wojo, but we'll learn a lot about Greg McDermott at this level going forward. His kid was an all-time collegiate great -- as a coach we won the ovarian lottery, so to speak, and had a veteran roster perfectly timed to join the new Big East. Don't forget, he went to Creighton one step ahead of the ax in Ames (59-68).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 07:03:42 PM by NYWarrior »

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2014, 07:06:46 PM »
Don't underestimate the McDermott effect. There's gonna be a lot less room on the court for others with him gone.

Texas Western

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Re: Casual Hoya reviews MU
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2014, 11:29:51 PM »
It's simple math. Creighton was the 23rd best team last season. Marquette was the 76th. Crieghton loses 65% of its production. Marquette loses 72%. Creighton brings in a solid graduate transfer (Kreklow), a former top 40 redshirt juco (Milliken), a former 4 star redshirt (Hegner), a top 100 freshman (Harrell), and a top 150 freshman (Gilmore III). Marquette brings in a great graduate transfer (Carlino), a former top 100 redshirt (Duane), a midseason transfer who was ok for Indiana (Fischer), and a top 100 freshman (Cohen). Creighton has 4 players taller than 6"7 for the entire season. Marquette has 1 for half the season. Creighton kept its coach. Marquette has a coach who has never had the head job before.

If you look at the above information, Creighton sounds like it's going to be the better team, no matter how you look at it. I don't think people appreciate how bad on paper Marquette is looking. On paper, we should be outside the top 100 this season. Closer to 150 than 100. Fortunately for us, basketball is not played on paper. I buy into the belief that our sophomores will take big steps forward, and that upgrading the perimeter will make the other players on the team better. So I believe we will finish above Creighton, Butler, and Seton Hall. But we are in no real position to say we are definitively better than anyone in the BEast besides Depaul.
I look at it another way. Other than Villanova, I think the Big East is wide open. Most of the other teams have lost their top players. I believe our kids underperformed because of a poor coaching situation last year rather than lack of talent. We have new very legitimate coaches and a fresh start. Duane, Deonte and JJJ are going to outperform as their physical skills are clearly top tier.w e can go 7-2 at home in the Big East and 3-6 on the road. 10-8 overall. I think that would be good for 4th or 5th.

 

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